Goodbye Gruden and ongoing Snyder investigation discussion

Awesome Fossum

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Pretty incredible that Jon Gruden is going to be the only casualty of the WFT investigation. Good thing Dan Snyder doesn't have an email account.
 

sodenj5

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For some reason, this seems extremely on-brand for a dude that loves Hooters. Kind of hilarious.

But Gruden’s behavior was not limited to 2011. Gruden exchanged emails with Allen and other men that included photos of women wearing only bikini bottoms, including one photo of two Washington team cheerleaders.
 

mauf

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Says a lot about the kind of operation Dan Snyder runs that Bruce Allen felt comfortable having these conversations on his work email. Even Gruden was savvy enough to use personal email.
 

cornwalls@6

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May have missed something, but I can’t tell from the article: are those photos of WFT cheerleaders consensual? If not, this goes to an entire new level of trouble for both him and Allen.
 

RedOctober3829

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He can’t come back from this. Especially with Nassib on the team. This confirms everything I thought about Gruden. He has no life outside of football and is so ignorant and narcissistic he can’t help himself.
 

Bongorific

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May have missed something, but I can’t tell from the article: are those photos of WFT cheerleaders consensual? If not, this goes to an entire new level of trouble for both him and Allen.
It depends on what the meaning of is is.

IIRC, as part of the WFT cheerleader lawsuit, multiple cheerleaders stated they were asked to do things they weren’t comfortable with including posing nude or semi-nude during the calendar photo shoots. I have a hunch the shared photos are related to that. So no, they weren’t consensual.
 

EvilEmpire

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Mark Davis will fire him. It's shitty behavior from anyone in any position, but even worse from someone who you expect to be a leader.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I hope Davis calls Chucky in to fire him face to face, and Nassib rips his fucking head off while a few of the captains beat him to death with some Michelin tires. Might have to reverse the order, but as long as it gets done.
 

cornwalls@6

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It depends on what the meaning of is is.

IIRC, as part of the WFT cheerleader lawsuit, multiple cheerleaders stated they were asked to do things they weren’t comfortable with including posing nude or semi-nude during the calendar photo shoots. I have a hunch the shared photos are related to that. So no, they weren’t consensual.
That’s right. Forgot about that lawsuit. Seems like sharing them would also be grounds for additional litigation if the photos were part of that. If they were separate photos, and not taken with their knowledge, even worse.
 

BunnzMcGinty

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I called this yesterday. Even knew he called goodell the f*g word, so I’m not surprised that this was the other shoe to drop that the league was holding on to. As a gay person, not surprised, but honestly it shouldn’t have even gotten to this. Once the comments about De Smith came out, he should have been gone. His willingness to dehumanize and objectify human beings should have immediately disqualified him from any position of leadership in the league or any of its franchises.
 

scott bankheadcase

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At this point it’s gotta just be the Raiders’ lawyers seeing if they have a clause that allows them to not pay out right?

there’s no other reason to not have fired him already.
 

Shelterdog

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He’s scum he should be fired etc but I’m still far from convinced that he is. The Raiders owe him a ton of money and if his lawyers did their job pre hiring legal activities won’t be a basis for termination, the Raiders have had trouble finding good coaches, he’s doing a decent job with the team (not great but decent), and I’ll bet firing a guy for not being “PC” won’t go over well with the fan base. The next time I see the NFL do the right thing in one of these cases will be the first time so im not holding my breath.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yeah he’s done. It’ll anger a lot of football fans, I’m sure, but obviously he won’t be sticking around.
 

Zedia

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What's your point?

Every single person here agreed Grudens intent was malicious. They were "discussing" peripheral aspects on a "discussion" board.

Why does that bother you?
I mean, I’m not ”bothered”. I just thought the whole “intent doesn’t matter” discussion was a BS digression that detracted from Gruden’s transgression. And, assuming the new reports are true, it’s pretty irrelevant.
 

Mooch

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He’s scum he should be fired etc but I’m still far from convinced that he is. The Raiders owe him a ton of money and if his lawyers did their job pre hiring legal activities won’t be a basis for termination, the Raiders have had trouble finding good coaches, he’s doing a decent job with the team (not great but decent), and I’ll bet firing a guy for not being “PC” won’t go over well with the fan base. The next time I see the NFL do the right thing in one of these cases will be the first time so im not holding my breath.
This goes WAY beyond “not being PC.” I have to imagine this would be firing for cause in pretty much any business anywhere.
 

Hoya81

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Raiders have multiple former head coaches on staff (Bradley, Marinelli, Cable) but none of them really a no brainer to be interim coach.
 

Shelterdog

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This goes WAY beyond “not being PC.” I have to imagine this would be firing for cause in pretty much any business anywhere.
So first I think it is beyond not being PC. Watch though-his departure is going to be a political/culture war football.

obviously I was wrong if he’s resigning.
 

Ed Hillel

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So first I think it is beyond not being PC. Watch though-his departure is going to be a political/culture war football.

obviously I was wrong if he’s resigning.
He called his boss a “faggot.” That’s a no no.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yup. As much as I believe Gruden deserves whatever he has coming, it pisses me off that Goodell is going to get what he wants - and that is revenge, certainly not racial justice.
Honestly I'm more likely to buy the theory that the particular email was leaked at the time it was to help Smith keep his job in the vote a few days later. He's been good for the league because he's bad at his job, they don't want someone more aggressive in that role.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Take Football takes to the Raiders thread. The coach / GM / NFL version of McArthur being fired has real football talk impacts that can go there.


Talk about the Gruden emails / larger social implications / NFL politics stuff in this thread.
 

Average Reds

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Yup. As much as I believe Gruden deserves whatever he has coming, it pisses me off that Goodell is going to get what he wants - and that is revenge, certainly not racial justice.
Might be worth accepting that, in this instance, Goodell is on the side of righteousness.
 

nattysez

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The Raiders as a franchise have been trailblazers in addressing inequity in the game and Al prided himself on that. Mark Davis could not let Chucky hang around.
 

jcd0805

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Interestingly the article points out that no one in the league will say WHAT vulgar comments Gruden used. I have a strong feeling he made liberal use of words for a bundle of sticks and negative oral pressure on a male chicken in reference to his perception of their masculinity or sexual orientation. I think he’s gone.
Good call.
 

ManicCompression

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I mean, I’m not ”bothered”. I just thought the whole “intent doesn’t matter” discussion was a BS digression that detracted from Gruden’s transgression. And, assuming the new reports are true, it’s pretty irrelevant.
I don't think it detracts from Gruden's transgression to assert that he meant what he said and that's meaningfully different from someone who makes an innocent mistake. If anything, it puts a lantern on Gruden's action. I don't want to keep harping any further, I just want to defend myself against a "BS digression." You can PM me if you have a problem with that.

On that note, I'm stoked he's gone and I hope that ESPN doesn't hire him again after a couple of years away from the game.
 

Average Reds

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Oh, I'm fine with the outcome. But let's not pretend Goodell is a righteous man, in this or any other matter.
I worded my post carefully and did not say that he was.

I did suggest that you might consider not worrying about whether Goodell "wins" in a situation where he is doing the right thing.
 

glennhoffmania

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So basically he was going to stay until the rest of his shitty emails became public. And apologies if this was already answered but for how long has the NFL had these emails?
 

Tony C

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Wow. What a scumbag. Imagine how Carl Nassib must feel reading that homophobic crap coming from your head coach. Fuck Gruden and the rest of the NFL old school “boys club” fuckfaces.
Yes. Should have been fired immediately. Perhaps better to have him resign (does that matter in re money? .I'd like to save Mark some dough by not paying that fucker.)
I don’t take any pleasure in seeing Gruden get sacked, but if he’s not fired tomorrow something is wrong. In addition to the remarks being obviously hateful and bigoted, he was emailing Bruce Allen’s WFT work account? Just beyond stupid.
Beyond needing to be dumped...there is the element of stupidity here. 10 years ago is not 100 years ago. What idiot doesn't know you don't say anything that could even be construed as problematic in an e mail...much less what they were doing? Fools.
 

Preacher

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They drop the news on MNF. And just when you thought lip reference would be the only negative on that level. This guy is toast and there’s no way he can go back to ESPN. I can’t imagine emailing this shit in 2011 or even 2001.
 

Steve Dillard

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NBC Sold out backing him last night during half time. Tirico talked about him as having been partners for a decade, no prejudice. Dungy said he's a good man. I think even Brees backed him.

They must not have been given the heads up before commiting.
 

coremiller

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Marinelli is in his 70s. Cable has a .386 nfl winning percentage and that’s better than what Bradley has.

yeah, maybe just promote the OC?
Also, after the Gruden fallout, Davis can't possibly promote Cable. The Raiders needs someone with a clean rep and, uh, Cable is not it.
 

Shelterdog

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He called his boss a “faggot.” That’s a no no.
to be precise when he was at his old job at ESPN he called Goodell homophobic slurs. I’m not in the defending Jon Gruden business but that makes a hell of a lot of difference from both legal and public perception perspectives
 

loshjott

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NBC Sold out backing him last night during half time. Tirico talked about him as having been partners for a decade, no prejudice. Dungy said he's a good man. I think even Brees backed him.

They must not have been given the heads up before commiting.
Dungy and Brees’ opinions on homosexuality are well known.
 

Cellar-Door

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NBC Sold out backing him last night during half time. Tirico talked about him as having been partners for a decade, no prejudice. Dungy said he's a good man. I think even Brees backed him.

They must not have been given the heads up before commiting.
THis is why you never comment until you know what is out there. You end up saying dumb shit like that to help a guy sell his 1 mistake 10 years ago, wasn't intentional narrative, only for it to come out that for basically a decade he's been absolute trash on main.
 

jcd0805

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NBC Sold out backing him last night during half time. Tirico talked about him as having been partners for a decade, no prejudice. Dungy said he's a good man. I think even Brees backed him.

They must not have been given the heads up before commiting.
I’m not sure they sold out, seems a lot of people who know him were saying today they never saw any inkling of racist or other abhorrent behavior from him. That’s valid, and a big reason why this shit is still going on-assholes who feel the way gruden clearly does are very good at hiding their true feelings.
 

BlackJack

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This stuff sucks. Not that it came out, but that it happened. I’m not a Gruden fan, not a Raiders fan, but I feel bad for all the Raiders fans who have to deal with this garbage because their favorite team’s coach is a piece of crap. Not to mention the people who Gruden has treated like crap over the years.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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NBC Sold out backing him last night during half time. Tirico talked about him as having been partners for a decade, no prejudice. Dungy said he's a good man. I think even Brees backed him.

They must not have been given the heads up before commiting.
This isn’t quite the WWE doing a whole tribute show for Chris Benoit but similar vibes.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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The fact that anyone is surprised by the offensive actions or comments from someone who has spent a better part of their life in NFL locker rooms strikes me as odd. He's been part of the "boys club" for years. This was very likely rampant around the NFL 10-15 years ago. Does it make it better? Hell no. Could this start a flood of the old guard getting booted out of the NFL due to behavior like this? Unfortunately, probably not. Not unless they've crossed our clown-nosed commissioner.
 
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So most of these emails are from 10+ years ago, but didn't they also mention "calling for dismissal of players protesting the playing of the national anthem"? I assume by this they mean players kneeling to protest police brutality, which would have to be way more recent correct?
 

SMU_Sox

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Exceptionally grateful someone who says the things he did and probably still does won’t be coaching in the NFL. Not sure whether it is better to post here or the Raiders thread but Gruden basically is the de facto GM and coach. You wonder if they clean sweep purge the organization and/or keep Mayock.