Global Football Odds & Ends

InstaFace

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I was referring to retired USA players like Rapinoe or Solo. But both of therm tend to shy away from the spotlight.
Well, Rapinoe might actually have the self-restraint to not make waves during the Olympics when she's not even on the team.

Solo... or Lloyd, who actually has a media platform to speak from? Yeah, I dunno, I'm sure their egos will crop up at some point.
 

reggiecleveland

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Well, Rapinoe might actually have the self-restraint to not make waves during the Olympics when she's not even on the team.

Solo... or Lloyd, who actually has a media platform to speak from? Yeah, I dunno, I'm sure their egos will crop up at some point.
Unless they would rather not have a big discussion?investigation about the extent of the cheating.
 

67YAZ

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Unless they would rather not have a big discussion?investigation about the extent of the cheating.
You just popped back over here for the first time in 3 years to talk shit in the wake of your whole federation getting caught cheating over the past half decade? Nice.
 

InstaFace

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Unless they would rather not have a big discussion?investigation about the extent of the cheating.
I mean, if USSF has some sort of systematic spying on other teams thing going on,

(A) it must be super well-funded because we've got far more money than talent, but also
(B) we clearly suck at it, because while the WNT has been great more-or-less forever, our guys haven't punched above their weight against anyone except Mexico for several years now. Plus, of course,
(C) a bunch of people would've necessarily been in on it, many of whom have now left the organization and plenty of whom have big egos and a hunger for attention, and yet nobody has said a damn thing. So we'd need to have a code of omertà that's the best-enforced one outside of the 'Ndrangheta... while at the same time having employed many people in the organization who are manifestly fools who have never really needed much common sense or street smarts in their lives.

Those things in combination make me think it's unlikely.

But if deflecting the accusation towards your neighbors helps you get through the bargaining phase, I wish you the best with that.
 

reggiecleveland

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You just popped back over here for the first time in 3 years to talk shit in the wake of your whole federation getting caught cheating over the past half decade? Nice.
Get lost. I am not talking shit. It sucks and the entire program is going to be dismantled, both coaches etc. I asked a question, because it isn't my area. Lighten up.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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As long as you don’t drone on about it.
Successfully resisting the allure of drone puns

The Athletic with a good summary of what is known so far and possible sanctions.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5662218/2024/07/27/canada-spying-olympic-questions-punishments/?source=user_shared_articleCanada Olympic spying scandal: The unanswered questions and possible punishments

My take … Priestman will be sacked, the senior analyst Lonbardi will be sacked , Marsch will survive.

One suspects that Herdman will be outed as the chief architect of the whole scheme and may very well lose his TFC gig.

It should be noted that no players in either program have come forward to claim being shown, or being aware of the spying. it’s just the opposite in fact.

I’d say it’s 50/50 on whether Canada loses its Gold Medal.

edit: a nice overview of cheating

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5655833/2024/07/25/canada-olympic-spying-history-soccer-football/?source=user_shared_articleA history of spying in football: Drones, interns at training and kit men in ceilings
 
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candylandriots

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Probably more SoSH supporters of Union Berlin today, as they play Rangers in the first home friendly of the season.

Sold out (at least the home side).IMG_0583.jpeg
 

candylandriots

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Pefok with a penalty to make it 2:1

Rangers opening the defense up 2:3.

3:3 not much defense here today haha.
 
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CodPiece XL

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The game is being shown live on ESPN + here. I’m kind of surprised. I stumbled into it whilst watching a couple of golf feeds. Celtic-Chelsea is being shown nationally on ABC later.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
I'd be shocked if they took Canada's 2020/21 gold away, unless someone has proof of video being taken during the tournament in Tokyo. The 6 point deduction for 2024 is basically a way to try and DQ them from this tourney without kicking them out, since there's no time to bring in a replacement squad from another country. Although given that 8 of the 12 teams will get to the knockout stages, they could still sneak through if they go 3-0-0 in the group stage.

As for what FIFA might do, Canada is very lucky they're a co-host for 2026 or they'd probably find themselves with a big points deduction or outright ban from qualifying.
 
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InstaFace

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Jesse is probably the source for this, he’s long been a canny media operator. But it continues to cement the fact that many in the FA new this was wrong & against the rules, yet persisted in the practice.

View: https://twitter.com/tsnscianitti/status/1816939366540874121?s=46&t=GfuLFvTYcOxcFiCZjyIYZw
I mean just from the phrasing it's transparent that Marsch himself is the "sources tell". Like Matthew isn't even trying to hide it. What secondhand source would quote verbatim the "wasn't part of his coaching philosophy" bit? Only a guy who went to Princeton would think that was normal-person phrasing, which you'd say when summarizing what you overheard someone else saying.

I happen to like Marsch, and want him to succeed (though not at our expense, obviously), it clearly wasn't his idea in the first place whether he went along with it or not, and I hope his performance at Copa America wasn't, uh, "wind-aided". But these are the actions of someone who thinks the odds he's in deep shit are non-trivial.
 

reggiecleveland

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Successfully resisting the allure of drone puns

The Athletic with a good summary of what is known so far and possible sanctions.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5662218/2024/07/27/canada-spying-olympic-questions-punishments/?source=user_shared_articleCanada Olympic spying scandal: The unanswered questions and possible punishments

My take … Priestman will be sacked, the senior analyst Lonbardi will be sacked , Marsch will survive.

One suspects that Herdman will be outed as the chief architect of the whole scheme and may very well lose his TFC gig.

It should be noted that no players in either program have come forward to claim being shown, or being aware of the spying. it’s just the opposite in fact.

I’d say it’s 50/50 on whether Canada loses its Gold Medal.

edit: a nice overview of cheating

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5655833/2024/07/25/canada-olympic-spying-history-soccer-football/?source=user_shared_articleA history of spying in football: Drones, interns at training and kit men in ceilings
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/soccer/fifa-bans-canada-coach-bev-priestman-1-year-1.7277691
FIFA strips Canada of 6 points in Olympic soccer, bans coach Bev Priestman for 1 year in drone spying scandal

This seems about right. I doubt it is related but silver lining I can see is Sport Canada has tended to carve up infractrions by teams as the individual's faul and leave the teams alone. A few years ago a hoops player was dominant in overtime in both games of the Canadian final four. Announcers commented that he seemed to find "rocket fuel" in OT, and surprise tested positive for stimulants. Sport Canada decided to take away his MVP award but let the win by the teams stand and not punish the team at all. So Soccer Canada's argument the players didn't cheat so should not be punished. By that logic you would only risk your drone guy getting punished.
 

the1andonly3003

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Didn't the French police arrest the drone operator?
Wow, to think the NYPD had arrested the SpyGate camera operator. Too soon?

Anyhow, was Aston Villa vs Club America at Soldier Field a late addition? I am tempted...
 

InstaFace

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USSF says they had long known Canada spied on people with drones, they'd been spied-upon themselves as early as 2019 (with lots of corroborating narratives from various people), but they didn't report it because they had bigger fish to fry with Canada Soccer like a joint WC hosting bid. And that Canada Soccer gets all projection-y by accusing other people of spying when it's actually nothing (there's a good story there involving pigeons).

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/40654826/us-soccer-aware-prior-canada-spying-incidents

e.g.:

Among several specific instances in recent years that are often recounted among U.S. Soccer officials, sources told ESPN, is an incident during a training camp in January 2021. Both federation's men's teams were practicing in Florida at the IMG Academy, and on the day before the teams were set to stage a scrimmage against each other, the United States team was training at the facility's soccer stadium.

During training, a team security guard noticed a man sitting in the otherwise-empty adjacent football stadium watching the U.S. practice. The security guard approached the man and asked him who he was. The man said he worked for IMG Academy, at which point the security guard told him that he wasn't allowed to be watching practice. The man said he would leave, and the security guard went back to training. Moments later, the security guard looked back, and the man had simply moved to a different point in the football stadium to continue watching.

At that point, the security guard asked another IMG staff member who the man was, and was told, "He doesn't work for us." The security guard then returned to the football stadium and confronted the man, who finally admitted he was a Canada staffer.

The episode may have been a preview, of sorts; later that year, Canada's women's team won the gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics -- when it now appears they used drones to view opponents' practices, according to David Shoemaker, the Canada Olympic Committee's chief executive.

"It makes me ill, it makes me sick to my stomach, to think that there could be something that calls into question ... one of my favorite Olympic moments in history," Shoemaker said at a news conference this week.
Doesn't sound good for the Tokyo Olympics medals, unfortunately.
 

reggiecleveland

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USSF says they had long known Canada spied on people with drones, they'd been spied-upon themselves as early as 2019 (with lots of corroborating narratives from various people), but they didn't report it because they had bigger fish to fry with Canada Soccer like a joint WC hosting bid. And that Canada Soccer gets all projection-y by accusing other people of spying when it's actually nothing (there's a good story there involving pigeons).

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/40654826/us-soccer-aware-prior-canada-spying-incidents

e.g.:



Doesn't sound good for the Tokyo Olympics medals, unfortunately.
This one part though is inaccurate
he episode may have been a preview, of sorts; later that year, Canada's women's team won the gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics -- when it now appears they used drones to view opponents' practices, according to David Shoemaker, the Canada Olympic Committee's chief executive.
"It makes me ill, it makes me sick to my stomach, to think that there could be something that calls into question ... one of my favorite Olympic moments in history," Shoemaker said at a news conference this week.
Shoemaker in his interview said Canada soccer was proud of its accomplishments and would investigate everything, and said he feared accomplishments may be tarnished and then listed his favorite Soccer Canada moment. He did not admit that spying had happened, but that he would investigate.

The part about Herdman complaining about spying is on point. A friend (in retrospect) who had a kid that was in the national Junior program said she always found it odd that Herdman mentioned the need to guard against spying when giving motivational speeches to young players at camps, dinners etc. She thought he really enjoyed the topic of spying.
 

rguilmar

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How excited should I be about Matias Soulé to Roma?
I don’t catch nearly as much Serie A as I used to, but he’s fun to watch. Left footed winger who can score. Pretty sure he led Frosinone in scoring last season while leading Europe in successful dribbles. He’s tough to defend 1v1, if not impossible. He really wants to take guys one on one, and he’s good at it. He relies mostly on his left foot but will go right once in a while to keep defenders honest. Think a less gangly looking Angel de Maria. If he can use his dribbling to create more chances for his teammates, then Roma might really have something. If not, then they’ll have an “exciting at times but mostly frustrating” type of player.
 

Zososoxfan

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I imagined that national football federations would charter.
Some will, but read about Leon Bailey's complaints re the Jamaican FA and I think you get a feel for where the middle of the WC squads will be in terms of their situations for 2030.

You can even find stories from Messi and other Argentina legends talking about AFA and self-funding certain things. It's always couched in (genuine IMO) love of the shirt, but yeah, this isn't club football with limitless spending to maximize performance.
 

rguilmar

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San Marino won their first game in twenty years today and only their second win ever. Both over Liechtenstein.
 

OCST

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I don’t quite understand the ins and outs, but Leicester successfully appeal their PSR case and look to be clear of a points deduction. Not sure if the same jurisdiction issues apply for City, but they are surely taking detailed notes.
As I understand it, Leicester were beyond jurisdiction because, having gone down to the EFL, they were no longer within PL purview.

which has a kind of rough frontier justice about it.
 

rguilmar

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As I understand it, Leicester were beyond jurisdiction because, having gone down to the EFL, they were no longer within PL purview.

which has a kind of rough frontier justice about it.
Wait, so PSR only applies to the Premier League and not the rest of the pyramid? I’m not saying that I agree with all of these financial rules as it makes it difficult (or impossible) to break up the elite clubs, but there are some advantages by forcing a degree of financial stability on clubs that otherwise might be forced to shut down. Most of those advantages are felt down the pyramid where clubs often are surviving more on the margins, not at the top of the food chain. Often it’s clubs that had experienced a degree of success and overextend themselves to keep the good times rolling that are most vulnerable. They’re the ones who might need to be saved from themselves when the results go against them.
 

OCST

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Wait, so PSR only applies to the Premier League and not the rest of the pyramid? I’m not saying that I agree with all of these financial rules as it makes it difficult (or impossible) to break up the elite clubs, but there are some advantages by forcing a degree of financial stability on clubs that otherwise might be forced to shut down. Most of those advantages are felt down the pyramid where clubs often are surviving more on the margins, not at the top of the food chain. Often it’s clubs that had experienced a degree of success and overextend themselves to keep the good times rolling that are most vulnerable. They’re the ones who might need to be saved from themselves when the results go against them.
I am a lawyer, so I might be able to confirm if I read it more closely. As I understand it, Leicester, then in the Championship, was beyond the PL's reach *at the time that some of the proceedings took place. The pyramid works as it did pre-PL with regard to pro/rel, but the PL and the EFL (tiers 2-4), are separate governing entities, despite that the top four tiers are together referred to as "league football." The whole point of the PL was to separate the elite from the high minors as an entity, which of course was done for revenue purposes.

Everton cited to EFL precedent re: points deductions in its proceedings last season, not because it controlled - it didn't - but as persuasive authority, to say "here's how a league that already handled this, did it, so you, PL, who are pulling stuff out of your ass, should take heed." It was a good argument and IIRC was partially credited on appeal in reducing the point deductions.

So I don't think any of this will affect City. They might end up out of the PL if enough charges are sustained, but they're not going to be demoted for finishing in the bottom three before proceedings are had.

In separate news, the PL tried to get Everton to pay ~4M of its legal costs for Everton's appeal, and failed. Motherfuckers.
 

Zososoxfan

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No Messi or CR for Ballon d'Or this year for the first time since 2003.
View: https://twitter.com/ballondor/status/1831404785029017904
This is tough, but my vote would come down to Carvajal, Rodri, Jude, and Rudiger. My hate-respect of Carvajal knows no bounds, and while I freely admit he has no chance of winning, he's kind of a key player at FB in the mold of Dani Alves, Marcelo, or perhaps more closely Lahm. That said, Rodri plays a much more scarce position but doesn't have the UCL title to show for it. Rudiger likely doesn't win it because Germany went out to Spain in the QF but that seems harsh. Jude is probably the winner and a justifiable one at that. His individual skill got England thru to the final and his box crashing and finishing stirred the drink in Madrid between Vini and Rodrygo (who get docked points because Brazil's underperformance at the Copa).
 

veritas

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This is tough, but my vote would come down to Carvajal, Rodri, Jude, and Rudiger. My hate-respect of Carvajal knows no bounds, and while I freely admit he has no chance of winning, he's kind of a key player at FB in the mold of Dani Alves, Marcelo, or perhaps more closely Lahm.
This is certainly a take. I'd argue Carvajal is not close to being one of the 4 best players on his own team, nevermind in the world. He is not in the mold of any of those fullbacks you mentioned, he's a solid glue-guy player on a great team. What does he do that makes him great? This isn't a lifetime achievement award (anymore)
 

Zososoxfan

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This is certainly a take. I'd argue Carvajal is not close to being one of the 4 best players on his own team, nevermind in the world. He is not in the mold of any of those fullbacks you mentioned, he's a solid glue-guy player on a great team. What does he do that makes him great? This isn't a lifetime achievement award (anymore)
He's a shutdown defender at a key position while still contributing quite a bit in attack. He played 5th most minutes on the team over the course of the season. He also had a kinda big goal in a kinda big game.
 

Zososoxfan

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Not sure if this should go somewhere else, but I just finished watching the Angel Di Maria 3-part documentary on Netflix:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSm-iUUS3B8&t=6s


It's formulaic, but the guy is fascinating, easy to root for, and had a stupendous career. Big highlights for me were watching the old childhood footage (always a favorite for me), remembering his best moments, hearing him talk about coaches and coaches talk about him (Mourinho, Ancelotti, Maradona, Van Gaal, Scaloni), and seeing him talk about other players and them talk about him (Messi, Sergio Ramos, Ander Herrera, Neymar, all of the Argentina NT past and present).

I kind of forgot that he spent the majority of his club career with PSG, helping them cement their Galacticos era and bringing them to the fore of world football (UCL Finals and semis back to back in '19-'21 after getting eliminated in the QF or R16 for years). I thought he had spent more time in Portugal, but the reality is that he moved to Real Madrid early in his career and helped pull them out of the doldrums over 3 seasons before CR7, Benz, and Bale took over for their run. He also bridged the Mourinho and Ancelotti eras, getting along well with both guys. I strongly dislike Mourinho, but the guy is magnetic and says some smart things. Ancelotti is as cool as you'd expect, and him and ADM have a lot of respect and admiration for each other.

HOWEVA, ADM and LVG fucking hate each other from ADM's one season at MAN U. It shines an additional light on the Argentina-Netherlands QF in WC '22. United were in year 2 of their (relative) freefall when ADM joined, and I don't think LVG was the problem at Old Trafford, but it's an interesting What If had Mou and ADM been reunited there. Kinda crazy that ADM was the most expensive EPL transfer at the time and was holding out and eventually gone a season later.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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2-1 final, and it could have been worse for England as Greece had one chalked off by VAR for offside and another got stopped by a goal line clearance with the ball about halfway over the line, both off mistakes from Pickford.

No Kane today, but this England team should be able to put some more goals on the board, or at least be more threatening. Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Palmer, and Gordon starting, with Solanke, Watkins and Madueke off the bench, plus TAA to provide service. Other than Palmer skying a good chance created by Jude, it wasn’t like they were generating opportunities but getting super unlucky or the Greek keeper had an amazing day, they just weren’t creating as much in terms of quality chances as players of that caliber should. Obviously they need a permanent manager to sort all this out, but going without a real striker seemed suboptimal, starting Watkins or Solanke and sitting one of Foden or Palmer would probably have made for a more organized attack.
 

wonderland

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Not to totally excuse the performance from England’s standpoint but despite not playing much together in a match, they probably felt like they could show up and win. Plus, with Baldock of the Greece team drowning yesterday, I imagine the Greek team was extra pumped to honor their former teammate while England probably had mixed emotions as many of the English players played against Baldock when he was at Sheffield United.
 

Kliq

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Tuchel as an international manager is very interesting, given his reputation as a great tournament manager.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think its a great appointment. As Kliq says, Tuchel's cup record is ridiculously good at club level. He is very flexible and pragmatic with his tactics and also will have the standing and personality to set up his team to win even if that means dropping some massive players who just don't fit together in the same side.