Gleyber Torres: Is This Real Life?

ThePrideofShiner

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Pretty excited to see how he does. With Andujar suddenly playing so well, I think that will help take a little pressure off of Torres.
 

jon abbey

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I think one thing to keep in mind with him is just how young he is, a few months over 21. He will be the youngest player to play for NY since Melky Cabrera in 2005. He is five months older than Blake Rutherford, who people are saying has plenty of time still to develop now that he is hitting lots of singles and doubles in high A (I am not saying they're wrong). He was the 5th youngest player in the International League starting the season, which is an impressive list:

INTERNATIONAL LEAGUE

  1. Ronald Acuna, Gwinnett (ATL) 20.3
  2. Kolby Allard, Gwinnett (ATL) 20.6
  3. Mike Soroka, Gwinnett (ATL) 20.7
  4. Victor Robles, Syracuse (WAS) 20.9
  5. Gleyber Torres, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (NYY) 21.3
  6. Jose Mujica, Durham (TB) 21.8
  7. Michael Kopech, Charlotte (CWS) 21.9
  8. Enyel De Los Santos, Lehigh Valley (PHI) 22.3
  9. Francisco Mejia, Columbus (CLE) 22.4
  10. Jake Bauers, Durham (TB) 22.5

    https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/youngest-by-league-2018-opening-day/

    So because of this he's far from a finished project, but he should be an asset defensively right away at 2B and he seems to hit a lot of line drives, even if his power isn't all there yet.
 
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jon abbey

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6-0 since Gleyber came up, he's hit a bit but his main impact has been defense and energy. Here is a good example of the former, look how effortless this is and how much he gets him by:


And here is a hilarious example of his energy, in the dugout after Didi's 10th inning HR last night, he is the human pogo stick in the back:

 

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So this kid, it turns out, is pretty good. His walkoff HR today was an absolute bomb. And he may be the slickest fielding infielder the Yankees have had in a while.

He won't be seeing AAA again.
 

jon abbey

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Some good stuff from Verducci on Gleyber, more at the link below:

"Torres, at just 21, has a freakishly advanced approach to hitting. It’s exactly what the power-laden, strikeout-prone New York lineup needs to be complete. I don’t recall any player this young and this inexperienced using a wholesale different approach with two strikes as he does with no or one strike.

Before he gets to two strikes, Torres uses a big leg kick and a Javy Baez-like tip-and-rip barrel path (the barrel gets beyond his head, tipped toward the pitcher, before he whips it through). But with two strikes, Torres often ditches the leg kick and simply plants the toes of his front foot on the ground early, triggering a more controlled, direct path to the ball. He resembles a young Albert Pujols.

But look what he did Sunday: after striking out in his first at-bat with his usual two-strike swing, Torres decided to stick with his “A” swing the rest of the game. How did that work out? With two strikes, he struck out again, popped out … and smashed a walk-off home run to centerfield on a full count pitch from Dan Otero."

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/05/07/gleyber-torres-walk-off-home-run-ken-giles-ichiro-front-office
 

crow216

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Thanks for sharing jon, super excited to watch this kid play. It's unbelievable that players like Judge and Sanchez are nearly afterthoughts compared to last year and it's all due to the Andujar and Torres.
 

Big John

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As a born cynic I was skeptical about the hype surrounding this kid, but he has lived up to every bit of it. I don't think he realizes yet that what he is doing may be generational.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, I was confused about why he was so highly regarded when the individual aspects of his game all seemed solid, good, but not outstanding. But his defensive impact at 2B is already outstanding, and as Boone said after yesterday's game, his superior tool may be his ultra-calm demeanor.

Roberto Alomar is obviously a very high bar of comparison, a Hall of Famer, but it's interesting to look at his actual career. Alomar came up when he was 20 and immediately played every day, but he didn't have a season with a OPS over .800 until his age 24 season, his 5th season.
 

terrynever

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I was on the fence about this team in April because of the all-or-nothing batting approach, but then Andujar and Torres arrived. They energized their teammates and the fan base. And they lengthened the lineup, too.
 

jon abbey

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"Gleyber Torres entering tonight:

Innings 1-3: 2 for 14, 2 RBI, 2BB, 5K, .143/.235/.143
Innings 4-6: 7 for 21, 3R, 2B, HR, 4 RBI, 0BB, 3K, .333/.333/.524
Innings 6-9: 9 for 19, 4R, 2 2B, HR, 5 RBI, SB, 2BB, 4K, .474/.524/.737"
 

Wingack

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Good write up here by Dave Schoenfield.

Torres was called up on April 22. He hit his first home run 13 games later, on May 4. Since that date, only J.D. Martinez, with 16, has more home runs. This is a 21-year-old rookie second baseman in the first 45 games of his career going toe-to-toe with one of the game's best sluggers. Let's talk about that instead of worrying so much about pace of play.
This may sound like a silly thing to type, but I'm going to type it anyway: Gleyber Torres has a chance to become the best player in the game, non-Mike Trout division. Astute readers may recall that in the previous edition of Real or Not, I raved about Juan Soto and said hemay be better than Torres or Ronald Acuna Jr. What can I say? These are exciting times.

Lots of rumors buzzing (not that I think there is anything to it at all, more just sports radio filler) about a Torres led package to get DeGrom. I'm not sure there is a deal for a pitcher I would send him off in.

Would you consider dealing him and what for? I'd be curious to see what some of our Red Sox fan friends think as well.
 

crow216

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No, I wouldn't trade him for an ace. We don't need a #1 as much as we need a consistent starter to fill out the rotation near the top. I'd give up plenty of other prospects but Torres is about as untouchable as you can get.
 

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Francesca has been beating the drum for awhile that Torres is a “generational talent” who is absolutely untouchable.
The pundits on whatever that Golic morning show were all taking the opposite tack, basically saying that De Grom greatly increases the chance for a WS win this year, as the Yanks need pitching. Plus they won’t be able to pay all of Judge, Sanchez, Didi, Hicks, etc so they should trade someone
 

Wingack

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Francesca has been beating the drum for awhile that Torres is a “generational talent” who is absolutely untouchable.
The pundits on whatever that Golic morning show were all taking the opposite tack, basically saying that De Grom greatly increases the chance for a WS win this year, as the Yanks need pitching. Plus they won’t be able to pay all of Judge, Sanchez, Didi, Hicks, etc so they should trade someone
Yeah, Gleyber seems to me like the guy you are going to pay, especially since he is so young. Sanchez may be a man without a position by the time he hits FA. And Judge will be 30 when he hits the market. I may avoid big contracts to those two before anyone else.
 
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jon abbey

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Of course you don't trade him, if one of those 'trade value' rankings came out this week, he would probably be in the top five in baseball given that he is controlled through I believe 2024 and he currently looks like a young Roberto Alomar except Alomar took a lot longer to start hitting like a superstar.

Actually last night I was thinking about whether NY would trade him for Trout even up if the Angels offered (which clearly they never would), Trout is only under contract through 2020 and is very pricy but NY could use a superstar CF upgrade and they do have Drury for 2B, so I think you do make that deal but that might be the only one.
 

crow216

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MLB has done about 4 very long segments on Sox vs Yankees today. Just finished another 10 minute one. Torres getting tons of praise.
 

brandonchristensen

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It's remarkable what he's been doing. That's discounting his age - which makes it terrifying.

I know Ohtani is the 'story', but Gleyber has to be slowly(?) turning into the favorite for ROY.
 

jon abbey

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I think Ohtani's injury has almost certainly taken him out of the ROY competition. it seems pretty unlikely he will pitch again this season and not at all certain he will DH. Who else are top rookies in the AL besides Torres and Andujar? Domingo German? :)
 

jon abbey

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Heh, I was half-joking, but from a Fangraphs chat just now:

===============

All Cats Are Beautiful : If Ohtani is out for long, the Yankees finish 1-2 in ROY voting, right?

Jeff Sullivan: Seems practically guaranteed

Jeff Sullivan: And if Domingo German finishes strong, in theory they could go 1-2-3!
 

DanoooME

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He's definitely the real deal. If this power surge is legit, that's a big factor. And his plate discipline hasn't really kicked in yet at the major league level. When that does, watch out, he'll definitely vault up into the Trout/Betts range.
 

jon abbey

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Trout/Betts is a bit exalted, let's hold off on that. I have been thinking a young Roberto Alomar, although Gleyber is hitting a lot faster than he did, but a Hall of Fame 2B is a high enough bar for now, I think. :)

The power this soon is surprising to everyone and he is not getting cheapies, his average HR length so far is 404, Stanton is 402 by comparison. The game-winning HR off Snell on Thursday was maybe his best AB yet, he looked bad on a few 96 FBs at the top of the zone, worked the count full, fouled off a tough curve that was in the zone, and then somehow hit another 96 at the top of the zone and off the plate outside and hooked it all the way into the left field seats, dunno how you pull a pitch like that that is outside and up and that hard, but I am not a 21 year old wunderkind.

Understandably he's getting a lot of media attention all of a sudden, I think that messed up Judge a bit last year mid-season (along with his shoulder), so we'll see how Gleyber deals with the increased demands on his time. He is looking like he will be the backup 2B at the All-Star Game behind Altuve, Lowrie doesn't need to be on anymore as he has fallen back and Treinen has been great and can be the A's rep.

Also I don't argue with defensive metrics much, but they seem to not like him so far and that seems really wrong. He definitely had a stretch of bad errors on easy plays, but he constantly makes superior plays that many other guys get nowhere near, his range in every direction is remarkable, good luck dropping much in between him and Judge these days. Javy Baez was the early defensive comp (Gleyber is also really great at tagging runners and was in the Cubs organization) but since I have seen him I can't stop thinking the aforementioned Alomar for the way he just blankets a huge area in every direction.

Also even up to the point he was called up, no one seemed quite sure what his single most superior tool was (odd for a consensus top 5 prospect), but the answer is I think his overall baseball instincts. He puts together consistently great ABs under pressure, he doesn't mind getting down 0-2 and he often seems to outthink the pitch selection, working deep counts, fouling off a range of pitches and often winning the AB. On the defensive side, there was a good example in the last day or two, fast runner on first and a tough bouncer that took him deep and away from 2B, but he still pivoted and (barely) got the force. It's only a smart play if you make it, most guys would have taken the easy out at first and most guys would have been right, but Gleyber is not most guys. The cool thing was not only did they get the force but the throw led Didi so perfectly into the runner that he also couldn't help but tag him on the way in, so out either way.

tl/dr: Every day is Gleyber Day.
 
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jon abbey

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Despite being hurt and likely unable to play (although he'll be back right around then, so maybe), Gleyber has been named to the All-Star game, as a rookie called up in late April. The list of alltime Yankees to make the ASG at age 21 or younger:

Joe DiMaggio
Mickey Mantle
Willie Randolph
Gleyber Torres
 

terrynever

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Bumping this thread. Gleyber leads Yanks with 26 HRs, half against the woeful Orioles. His sophomore season has featured the 22-year-old playing shortstop until Didi returned, then back to second while still subbing in at SS when Didi rests. How rare is a young power hitter who can play both middle infield positions?

Here is video of Orioles announcer Gary Thorne’s call of No. 26 last night.

 

TheDivision

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Gleyber's home runs so far (26) are nearly identical to his 2018 HR total in 123 games (24). Half his HR this year have indeed come at the expense of the Orioles but last year he had a more even distribution and only hit 3 against the O's.
 

jon abbey

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This is pretty incredible company.

AL Most HR in Age 22 Season or Younger

46 Joe DiMaggio 1937 NYY
43 Juan Gonzalez 1992 TEX
42 Alex Rodriguez 1998 SEA
39 Boog Powell 1964 BAL
37 Jimmie Foxx 1930 PHA
37 Ted Williams 1941 BOS
37 Gleyber Torres 2019 NYY

(all these guys were 22)
 

jon abbey

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Wow, does ZiPS love Gleyber. Keep in mind their projections are usually conservative:

2020: .287/.348/.557; 136 OPS+; 41 HR
2021: .292/.357/.588; 146 OPS+; 44 HR
2022: .289/.357/.586; 145 OPS+; 44 HR
2023: .289/.359/.602; 150 OPS+; 47 HR
2024: .287/.360/.601; 150 OPS+; 47 HR

 

TheDivision

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Wow, does ZiPS love Gleyber. Keep in mind their projections are usually conservative:

2020: .287/.348/.557; 136 OPS+; 41 HR
2021: .292/.357/.588; 146 OPS+; 44 HR
2022: .289/.357/.586; 145 OPS+; 44 HR
2023: .289/.359/.602; 150 OPS+; 47 HR
2024: .287/.360/.601; 150 OPS+; 47 HR

Those are lofty stats, but they foretell what most of us already know - the sky is the limit for Gleyber. And given this reality, he should be off limits in any trade discussion because he is a cornerstone player with HOF potential. The last sentence was my POV as fan
 

jon abbey

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Well, it doesn't mention defense there, which is the part that's still unclear to mildly troubling. Lindor is a far better defensive SS and DJ is a far better defensive 2B, that is why I continually push that imaginary blockbuster trade that will never happen.
 

TheDivision

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Yeah, his defense at SS is one area that will be telling this season. To date, he’s only played 98 games at that position. So over a full season we will know a lot more about his defense there. Hopefully, he doesn’t disappoint and hopefully his lack of focus that he displays from time to time decreases.

As for DJ, he’ll be 32 in July and as good and likable as he is, his role on the team shouldn’t ,IMO, take any precedence over Gleyber who just turned 23 and can possibly be a permanent fixture at 2B/SS for more than a decade.
 

Rough Carrigan

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Wow, does ZiPS love Gleyber. Keep in mind their projections are usually conservative:

2020: .287/.348/.557; 136 OPS+; 41 HR
2021: .292/.357/.588; 146 OPS+; 44 HR
2022: .289/.357/.586; 145 OPS+; 44 HR
2023: .289/.359/.602; 150 OPS+; 47 HR
2024: .287/.360/.601; 150 OPS+; 47 HR

Holy crap, that is scary. ZiPS usually has a revert to the mean bias. I didn't think it would give anyone a projection like that.
 

Wingack

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Wow, does ZiPS love Gleyber. Keep in mind their projections are usually conservative:

2020: .287/.348/.557; 136 OPS+; 41 HR
2021: .292/.357/.588; 146 OPS+; 44 HR
2022: .289/.357/.586; 145 OPS+; 44 HR
2023: .289/.359/.602; 150 OPS+; 47 HR
2024: .287/.360/.601; 150 OPS+; 47 HR

Will keep this in mind for fantasy draft season.
 

jon abbey

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It's crazy to think that as recently as April 2018 the consensus was that as highly ranked a prospect as he was, everyone expected his power to max out at maybe 15 HRs down the road. NY kept him down to steal an extra year of team control until April 22, and then he came up and after a couple of weeks, he played so well that he made the All-Star Game in mid-July as a rookie. He has hit for power from about two weeks into his big league career, and he does not seem to get many cheap ones. He incredibly has 62 career HRs already in 977 ABs (3 more in the postseason), all before his 23rd birthday and that includes a dry spell of 45 ABs to start his career, so 62 in the last 932, you can see where the projections come from.