Glazer: Giants reported to NFL that Steelers deflated footballs

Tyrone Biggums

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Shanks column completely misses the point. I will not link the article because I don't want to give him any hits. But essentially he calls Patriots fans ridiculous for saying that Deflategate 1 and 2 are similar. Completely missing the point of the league spending 5 million to go against the Pats and letting the Steelers skate away.
 

tims4wins

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John Mara, May 2015:

"I'm sure everybody believes there were certain things that maybe could have been done better, but overall, the league did what it was supposed to do," Mara told The Post. "There was a situation brought to its attention, it has an obligation to investigate it and come up with findings, and the commissioner has the obligation to impose discipline if he thinks it's necessary. That's the way it unfolded, and so now we're moving on."
 

pappymojo

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Mara is an asshole for sure, but Rooney seems okay (even if his team's fans are among the worst).

rooney

Rooney also said he doesn't view “Deflate-gate” as a serious offense, but it would certainly require some sort of punishment if found that it was done deliberately.

“I wouldn't put it on the scale of serious,” Rooney said. “But, if it is in fact true, it is a violation of league rules that I am sure the league office will deal with it in an appropriate way. It is really up to the league at this point. I expect there will be discipline if the (report) is determined to be accurate.”

Rooney said he's heard of players doctoring balls, especially kickers. Kickers used to go through great lengths to soften balls before the NFL instituted a “kicking” ball.

“Certainly, it wouldn't be the first time I've heard something like that,” Rooney said.
Not that he got it right, but he certainly understood it better than most owners.
 

ifmanis5

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DFG Part Duh proves what we knew all along about DFG Classic: a sour grapes witch hunt from the Commissioner, league office and owners with most of the fans and media either chewing popcorn or cheering it on. The double standard of how the Pats vs. any other team is treated is totally obvious by now. Even Shank should pick that up, but nope. Troller just gonna troll.
 

RedOctober3829

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That Mara comment is just further evidence that the Pats were victims of a witch hunt led by jealous owners who are envious of the Patriots' sustained successes over the past 16 years. They used the smallest thing and blew it up to "get" the Patriots.
 

Stitch01

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Yeah best way to think of it is as a series of competitive balance penalties or like a Madden challenge where the team has to overcome a handicap to keep things interesting against the 31 inferior CPU franchises. Sure, the post-factual moron crowd is still going to argue the team cheated, but having to go through life as a non-thinking mouth breather is its own form of punishment.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Blood is thicker than water I guess (via Rooney Mara).
I mean lets take away the fact that Rooney Mara is pretty hot if you've ever watched house of cards. Mara is out of touch. The Pats got jobbed. That Mara quote is pretty much an admission of that.
 

ifmanis5

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That Mara comment is just further evidence that the Pats were victims of a witch hunt led by jealous owners who are envious of the Patriots' sustained successes over the past 16 years. They used the smallest thing and blew it up to "get" the Patriots.
Mike 'you are in big f*cking trouble!' Kensil is nodding at this from his new office in China.
 

dcdrew10

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I mean lets take away the fact that Rooney Mara is pretty hot if you've ever watched house of cards. Mara is out of touch. The Pats got jobbed. That Mara quote is pretty much an admission of that.
That's Kate Mara in HoC, but the point remains. Rooney Mara was in the American version of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, piercings, shaved eyebrows, and all. To bring it back to the point at hand, this is all bullshit and nothing will come of it because the only thing that could come of it with a little digging is egg on the league's face. So it will be more of "Nothing to see here, move on."
 

Marciano490

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Like I said, it'd be great if some local guys had the chops and balls to dig into this or push a bit. Instead, we got Shank.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Jason Cole ‏@JasonColeBR 3m3 minutes ago


Goodell said protocols were followed in #Steelers v #Giants game regarding deflated balls. He said there was no need for folo up investigatn

HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW WITHOUT AN INVESTIGATION
Agreed, Where the hell is the investigation? They were a whole point below acceptable levels. We want justice.

Not one story on CNN or ESPN either.

Here is a solution. Just release your PSI results...
 

rodderick

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Jason Cole ‏@JasonColeBR 3m3 minutes ago


Goodell said protocols were followed in #Steelers v #Giants game regarding deflated balls. He said there was no need for folo up investigatn

HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW WITHOUT AN INVESTIGATION
Which protocol wasn't followed in the Patriots' case? You know, aside from the refs not being sure which gauge they used to fill up the balls, or us having no proof that they even did that in the first place considering no record of the PSI prior to the game starting exists.
 

NickEsasky

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SoxinSeattle

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Which protocol wasn't followed in the Patriots' case? You know, aside from the refs not being sure which gauge they used to fill up the balls, or us having no proof that they even did that in the first place considering no record of the PSI prior to the game starting exists.
I would guess Goodell is referring to the chain of custody situation with the Patriots balls. Also fuck him.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Except of course the protocol that says you can't fuck with balls on the sideline which the Giants did. Holy fuck, do I hate this clownshow of a league.
Exactly. It's in the rulebook, the Chargers got a $20K fine for doing something similar. Only the officials are allowed to test the PSIs of the footballs. Not the Giants, not the Steelers, not nobody.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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That's Kate Mara in HoC, but the point remains. Rooney Mara was in the American version of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, piercings, shaved eyebrows, and all. To bring it back to the point at hand, this is all bullshit and nothing will come of it because the only thing that could come of it with a little digging is egg on the league's face. So it will be more of "Nothing to see here, move on."
Yep I screwed up on that one. But this is ridiculous. The double standard is truly amazing
 

NickEsasky

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Exactly. It's in the rulebook, the Chargers got a $20K fine for doing something similar. Only the officials are allowed to test the PSIs of the footballs. Not the Giants, not the Steelers, not nobody.
I'm not saying they should lose a draft pick or anything, but don't come out with a blatant lie that protocols were followed, At least hit them with the $25k fine.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Except of course the protocol that says you can't fuck with balls on the sideline which the Giants did. Holy fuck, do I hate this clownshow of a league.
It gets easier if you don't pay attention to stuff like this. As you noted, the league is clownshow and after what the Patriots/Brady went through as well as having to hear the cries about cheating, a New England fan can only retain sanity by watching the games and ignoring everything else. I appreciate the posters here who allow me to filter out all of the hot takes and only focus on the news (injuries, coach & player comments). I won't do it myself after the stupidity out of the league, its messengers and its mouth-breathing fans over the past ~ two years.
 

SoFloSoxFan

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The problem with this incident isn't that the NFL didn't throw good money after bad, it's that they won't acknowledge that the original DG was bad.

Ideal gas law is a thing, it exists. Nothing happened in the Giants-Steelers game. A second unnecessary OUTRAGE won't fix what happened to Brady and the Patriots.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I would respect the NFL so much more if they just came clean and told the truth about the first Deflategate. That the league office was under pressure to make an example of the patriots because of competition reasons
 

Cousin Walter01

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I don't get it. Why doesn't anyone in the media bring any heat on the facts during Goodell's daily conference calls with the media?
 

DourDoerr

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Does anyone know how the league would investigate something like this and establish what their temperature is? The footballs would need to be measured right then and there at the game and in the cold. Sending the balls to the league office would... oh.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm surprised that the PSI results have never come out. Those things are probably more heavily guarded than launch codes.

For anyone who still cares about the story, that the NFL won't release them really is the "smoking gun" that has been missing on either side. Why won't they tell anyone the results?

There is nobody sane who doesn't know the answer. If they supported the Wells Report, there is nobody sane who doesn't believe the league would release them.

The league knows that balls are routinely played under 12.5 PSI. Kids doing junior high science projects know it. That the league won't admit it tells anyone who still cares all they need to know. Time to move on. Some doubted the league was really as mendacious as Patriots fans believed. Heck, I'm a Patriots fan and even I was skeptical. But, in the end, they are who we thought they were. That's good enough for me.

It would be kind of fun if someone could figure out a way to bring a lawsuit in which the records could be subpoenaed. There probably isn't a way, but, who knows, if you could get jurisdiction in Mass maybe you get a good court order. It's a fantasy, but maybe some clever lawyer will figure out a way.
 

allstonite

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"Hey Vlad, some people are saying that Super Bowl ring you took might be illegitimate. Help us prove them wrong"

Edit: I know they were different Super Bowls but "culture of cheating" and all that
 

Gorton Fisherman

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Just happened across the Dan Patrick show being simulcast on NBCSN, and he had Wetzel on the phone talking Deflategate 2. Wetzel pretty much hammered home all the same points he made in his column. Patrick seemed sort of bemused, but didn't really challenge or dispute anything he had to say. Hopefully Wetzel keeps on keeping on with his "Goodell should apologize to Brady" campaign/speaking tour. I don't really expect anything to actually come of it, but anything that makes Goodell look like even more of a boob is OK in my book.
 

BaseballJones

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Goodell says that this is a non-issue because standard protocols were followed. Well, we know that that was not true, because, as NickEsasky pointed out above, the Giants tampered with the footballs on the sideline against the rules when they took a psi reading.

HOWEVER, let's say that Goodell is correct. The next question from a reporter at his press conference should have been: "Thanks, Commissioner, I suppose that means that the Steelers didn't tamper with the footballs, and we're all grateful for that. But since the balls were at least a pound per square inch under the legal limit, what do you think could have caused that? Doesn't that show that cold weather causes natural deflation in footballs? Moreover, doesn't this mean that ball deflation itself is not inherently a problem, but only the idea of tampering is?"

I'd love for a reporter to have asked him those questions.
 

Average Reds

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I'm surprised that the PSI results have never come out. Those things are probably more heavily guarded than launch codes.

For anyone who still cares about the story, that the NFL won't release them really is the "smoking gun" that has been missing on either side. Why won't they tell anyone the results?
Isn't the obvious answer that Goodell opened his mouth and announced the PSI sampling prematurely, and the NFL's lawyers then pointed out to him that it might not be a good idea to document evidence that has the potential to completely undercut their legal case against Brady? (Because at that point the case was still in litigation.) Which is how Goodell came to announce last year that no records were being kept of the random sampling and the only comment the NFL had was that there was no problem.
 

bakahump

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Kate Mara is way hotter and I am way more willing to brush this under the rug for her.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Doesn't that show that cold weather causes natural deflation in footballs?
Lots of posters and reporters are writing the same thought, but didn't they acknowledge that cold weather reduces air pressure in the Wells Report and that the Pats balls being .1 or .2 outside of the expected range meant the balls were tampered with? Why are people saying that acknowledging that Pitt's balls were below 12.5 PSI would have been some sort of massive revelation by the NFL that science actually exists. This is why they pivoted to the procedural stuff like destroying the cell phone because focusing on the science would have lost them the battle in the court of public opinion.
 

bakahump

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I find the recent Hot Take! that the "NFL has obviously not communicated the IGL to the Teams which is why they are still bringing this up" to be horse shit.
1. EVERY NFL team had to have followed this and realized (and admitted, at leas internally) that the Pats did nothing wrong. Or at the very least that evidence of wrong doing was not found in the PSI readings.
2. Following this would introduce anyone who even had a cursory interest to the IGL.
3. That smart organizations (which I would have thought included the Steelers and Giants) would have immediately instructed their equipment guys to learn more about the IGL its causes and its ramifications.
 

tims4wins

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Lots of posters and reporters are writing the same thought, but didn't they acknowledge that cold weather reduces air pressure in the Wells Report and that the Pats balls being .1 or .2 outside of the expected range meant the balls were tampered with? Why are people saying that acknowledging that Pitt's balls were below 12.5 PSI would have been some sort of massive revelation by the NFL that science actually exists. This is why they pivoted to the procedural stuff like destroying the cell phone because focusing on the science would have lost them the battle in the court of public opinion.
Right, the entire conclusion of the Wells report was that weather did not FULLY explain the decrease in PSI (even though, of course, it did).
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Lots of posters and reporters are writing the same thought, but didn't they acknowledge that cold weather reduces air pressure in the Wells Report and that the Pats balls being .1 or .2 outside of the expected range meant the balls were tampered with? Why are people saying that acknowledging that Pitt's balls were below 12.5 PSI would have been some sort of massive revelation by the NFL that science actually exists. This is why they pivoted to the procedural stuff like destroying the cell phone because focusing on the science would have lost them the battle in the court of public opinion.
I think there are a few problems. The Exponent data is somewhat buried and that league knows that many -- probably a large majority -- are still laboring under the misimpression that the Patriots balls were 2 PSI below expected. While you and I everyone posting in this thread knows that the true difference found by Exponent -- even assuming their gauge shenanigans and that the Colts balls were measured in the same conditions -- is only .1 to .4 PSI from what Exponent "expected," this fact is not well known. I think if the league were to actually acknowledge that balls are routinely used at 11 PSI, there would be a "wait what" moment at least for some. And maybe it causes someone to actually ask the question that has no answer -- so, you mean this guy went into the bathroom and was able to uniformly release .2 PSI from each ball in 80 seconds? That stretches credibility. And, in any event, why would anyone bother?

Second, the data would presumably show that balls are routinely played with PSIs well below the Patriots' balls during the AFCCG. In a 20 degree game, for example. While this is an obvious corollary for anyone like us who pays attention, this would also be a "wait what" fact for many if they still care, and one the NFL does not want out there in the world. A first and a fourth round pick for playing with balls with greater pressure than is routinely played with? In fact, the league data undoubtedly shows a very wide range of measurements for all kinds of reasons. It's one thing to say that Ideal Gas Law is acknowledged in footnotes on page 115 of the Wells Report, and quite another if the league were to release data showing balls measured everywhere from 10 PSI to 15 PSI throughout the year.

The easiest way for me to think about it is simply this: If the testing the league were doing supported the Wells Report, there is no doubt the information would be out there. It's not. Ergo . . . .
 

Van Everyman

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As we move onto the next chapter of this pitiful saga, can someone answer me this?

How is it fucking possible that this entire controversy from the Indianapolis game two years ago to this current ridiculousness isn't always answered with the same two words:

"Tire pressure"

Listen, I loved Belichick's Mona Lisa DiVito press conference as much as anyone. I love having the entirety of the science community on my side outside of that one Seattle-loving asshole, Bill Nye. And I love the fact that all of New England's incredible research institutions stepped up.

But how is it possible with all the things that have been written about this stupid ass controversy, and all the discussion about the IGL, that no defense of the Patriots seems to have ever come back come back to the one thing every asshole knows about air pressure: tire pressure. Haven't most people at one time or another been told by their dad or their uncle or by a mechanic not to over inflate their tires in the cold because they could pop in the summer? Or that if you inflate your tires in the summer they could become a little deflated in the winter?

Why are we spending so much time talking about the fucking ideal gas law when everyone, even Troy Vincent, understands this?
 

DavidTai

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Because too many people don't live in conditions where they pay attention to that stuff. I'd bet anything those big windbags are too rich to even inflate their own tires.
 

TomTerrific

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I find the recent Hot Take! that the "NFL has obviously not communicated the IGL to the Teams which is why they are still bringing this up" to be horse shit.
But the Giants DID grab a couple of balls, measure them at 11.4 and 11.8 PSI, and bitch to the league about deflated balls (not quite sure the order of those last two events). And that info was then leaked to the press, presumably by those very same Giants to let people know what scumbags the Steelers are.

All of which tells me that the NFL has got plenty of stupid, vindictive people on various teams' payrolls, most of whom still don't have a clue about the underlying physics. Surprise, surprise. Because you don't do that if you're the Giants unless you think those measurements actually mean some real likelihood of malfeasance. Clearly anyone who was paying attention during Deflategate realizes they don't.

BTW, if I'm NFL HQ I am livid about this episode, not just because it draws attention to something they'd rather just never speak about again, but because it also adds the first real PSI numbers to come out of an NFL game other than Deflategate. Add to that the fact that they aren't so different from the Pats measurements, and you get that sort of underneath the skin damage to the NFLs storyline that they just can't undo. Not a fatal blow, but it's a blow and is now part of the narrative.

What I can't quite fathom is how a supposedly smart guy like Mara let this happen.
 

pappymojo

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/15/why-didnt-nfl-check-steelers-footballs-during-giants-game/

So now the spin is that the original deflategate penalty was because the Patriots ball boy took the balls to the bathroom and that is the difference, but if it's the officials responsibility to keep the balls, why did you penalize the Patriots? Why is it so hard to believe that when the game was delayed due to the Seahawks/Packers game going into overtime, some lazy official told the part-time employee to hump the balls to the field?
 

edmunddantes

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The fact NFL sources are still out there spinning this lets you know what actually happened in the Pats punishment.