Ghosts of Rosters Past

[BaseballJones]

Probably best for a new thread, but I'm not sure there'd be enough interest in this discussion so I'll leave it here and let the mods decide. We've done this exercise before with the Patriots...now let's do it with the Sox. Looking at this current roster, as it is right this moment, who's the one guy from, say, 1969 to the present, that played with Boston but that you'd want on this team right now? Here are some of my options:

Position players/hitters

- Carlton Fisk. They have a glaring hole at C and adding a Hall of Fame catcher would solve that problem pretty quickly.

- Dustin Pedroia. They also have a bit of a hole at 2b. Adding a Hall of Fame caliber player (though I doubt Pedroia will actually make the HOF) would help considerably.

- Jim Rice or Manny Ramirez. Rice is in the HOF; Manny would be if not for steroids. They need a big RH bat and a left fielder. Both of them fit the bill perfectly.

- Mookie Betts. They could easily slide Abreu to LF and have Mookie in right. Solves the RH hitting problem and adds great defense and base running as well.

- David Ortiz. Nothing like having the man himself hitting in the DH position for this team.

- Nomar Garciaparra. Allows them to move Story to 2b and have an elite, HOF level player at short. Huge offensive upgrade from the right side.


Pitchers

- Pedro Martinez. Why? Because he's the best ever, that's why.

- Roger Clemens. HOF stud who also pitches more innings than Pedro.

- Curt Schilling. Another stud SP who always comes up big in huge spots.

- Koji Uehara. Want to lock the game down late? Here's your guy.

- Jonathan Papelbon. Another electric closer.

- Chris Sale. Two dominant lefties in the rotation? Not a bad idea at all.

 

[chrisfont9]

Papi had a L/R split but was still .817 OPS vs lefties, so he would surely help our current situation.

 

[BaseballJones]

My choice would be narrowed down to Pedro, Fisk, and Manny. Would love having Pedro/Crochet/Houck at the top of the rotation. Would also love to have a HOF catcher. And would love Manny mashing in the #4 spot playing LF.

 

[RIrooter09]

There’s a disturbing lack of Yaz in this thread.

 

[Just Manny being Manny]

As a Red Sox fan only for the past ~20 years, I'd pick Big Papi with Pedey a close second. Loved that dude. I know that's ironic considering my username.

 

[Tangled Up In Red]

Pedro, Pedro, Pedro.
On this team or any.
Who's playing for second?

 

[BaseballJones]

There’s a disturbing lack of Yaz in this thread.

Obviously thought about him, but he's a LH bat and thought prime Ortiz might be a better option. Prime Yaz was prior to 1969 unfortunately, though obviously an all time great player.

 

[RIrooter09]

Obviously thought about him, but he's a LH bat and thought prime Ortiz might be a better option. Prime Yaz was prior to 1969 unfortunately, though obviously an all time great player.

He put up 8.9 fWAR in 1970

 

[Otis Foster]

Pedro, because when he was on, he was the most overpowering pitcher I ever saw. I always think back to that one hitter he threw against the MFYs,, when he struck out 19 IIRC. One writer talked about Daryl Strawberry coming to the plate in the ninth inning, like a condemned man walking the last mile.

That, and his matador routine with that miserable little gerbil Zimmer, and his request toMillar to point out who he wanted Petey to buzz in retaliation.

 

[NeckDownAllStar]

Given Mookie’s positional flexibility, one might consider Dwight Evans in RF as well as Mookie on the roster.

If they had Wade Boggs at 3rd, Devers could move to DH right away.

 

[simplicio]

Prior to the Crochet trade I think Pedro, with that done I think it has to be Fisk.

 

[ookami7m]

Prior to the Crochet trade I think Pedro, with that done I think it has to be Pedro

Fixed that for you. When in doubt, add Pedro.

 

[pk1627]

Well I pick Ted Williams of course but since he retired well before your date, I pick Ortiz. Guy was responsible for 3 WS titles and easily could have been 5-6.

I like our pitching and the team could use more power.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

It might be recency bias, but I'd go with Tek for catcher. With his pre-game preparation and the way he called pitches he would be a huge help to the current staff. I still remember Schilling saying that the only pitch call he shook off in his failed no hit game was the one the broke up the no hitter.

 

[simplicio]

If we're dropping off the player in their prime and not just their raw stats, the answer is Mookie, right? How good would guys from 20+ years ago still be in today's game?

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

In the end, every thread is a Mookie thread.

 

[cantor44]

My

My choice would be narrowed down to Pedro, Fisk, and Manny. Would love having Pedro/Crochet/Houck at the top of the rotation. Would also love to have a HOF catcher. And would love Manny mashing in the #4 spot playing LF.

My paired down list is the same, but add Mookie.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I don’t understand how this isn’t unanimously Pedro

 

[snowmanny]

Somebody doesn’t want to add Pedro?



…sure…um…

 

[NextBigThing8184]

If we're dropping off the player in their prime and not just their raw stats, the answer is Mookie, right? How good would guys from 20+ years ago still be in today's game?

Prime Pedro could probably dominate today’s hitters. An ERA+ of 291 in prime steroid era? That might legitimately be the best season of baseball pitched in the modern era.

The only argument for Betts would be he’s an every day player but the upgrade on this roster from Abreu or Rafaela (or whichever OF) to Betts is less impactful than from whatever the 5th starter is to prime Pedro

I also think Pedro was such a student of the game, he’d be able to use modern technology to his benefit to be even better and certainly todays focus on pitch counts and managed rest would help keep him from breaking down (hopefully)

 

[Nacl]

This is a little bit of an odd poll, are we talking only Boston tenure or all teams? Peak or career? I'm approaching this as career / all teams. I think you have to view this as the best swap, not necessarily the best player. For position players it would be Fisk....I think he provides the greatest delta from our current catchers. Mookie would be a strong pick for his positional flexibility, but he is primarily an outfielder, and our current outfield is already good. Beltre would be a good pick too, except we already have a good 3rd baseman. For pitching....Pedro or Roger....can't lose either way.

 

[mikeford]

If we're dropping off the player in their prime and not just their raw stats, the answer is Mookie, right? How good would guys from 20+ years ago still be in today's game?

Pedro would still be the best pitcher alive so it's Pedro.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Pedro. Lock the thread. Pedro's 1997-2004 peak is arguably the best of all time considering the era he pitched in.

As always: @PedroisGod.

 

[BaseballJones]

Pedro. Lock the thread. Pedro's 1997-2004 peak is arguably the best of all time considering the era he pitched in.

As always: @PedroisGod.

That is true and you won’t find a bigger Pedro fan in the world than me.

The reason I’d consider someone like Manny or Fisk is because of the way the current roster is structured.

But the answer is still probably Pedro.

 

[curly2]

But the answer is still probably Pedro.

To me the answer is undoubtedly Pedro.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

"Hey, if you can have the best pitcher in baseball history on your roster, should you make that happen?" is the kind of question where any GM who says "No, BECAUSE..." should be fired on the spot.

You always take Pedro. Pedro is God. His peak is very likely the best pitcher anyone who is alive right now will ever see. Kinda seems simple.

 

[jwbasham84]

The biggest complaint about our roster is its missing an ace.... Pedro is THE ACE... There is no team that his presence doesn't immediately improve.... always the correct answer

 

[nighthob]

Can I have '67 Yaz? Because that guy hit the hell out of everyone. I mean, yeah, there was obviously a platoon split, he was something like 1.100 against righties and .900 against lefties. But I can live with that. Especially facing pitchers throwing from a normal height mound. Also, prime Pedro. That guy booked deadball era pitching lines at the height of the steroid era. You transport him to 2025 and he's going to feed.

 

[CKDexterHaven]

If I have to be practical, Pedro.

But, I’d love Papi, in an era without the shift. He’d hit .375.

 

[lexrageorge]

Can I have '67 Yaz? Because that guy hit the hell out of everyone. I mean, yeah, there was obviously a platoon split, he was something like 1.100 against righties and .900 against lefties. But I can live with that. Especially facing pitchers throwing from a normal height mound. Also, prime Pedro. That guy booked deadball era pitching lines at the height of the steroid era. You transport him to 2025 and he's going to feed.

Yaz in September 1967: 0.417/0.504/0.760/1.265, 9 HRs in 27 games

Yaz in September 1972: 0.300/0.381/0.558/0.940, 8 HRs in 32 games

Yaz in September 1977: 0.306/0.349/0.529/0.877, 6 HRs in 31 games

1974 and 1975 stretch runs were not so good, as he faded badly in the second half both seasons. But then his first and only two playoff series in 1975:

0.369/0.447/0.600/1.047, 4 HR's in 17 games

He struggled similarly in the second half of 1978, but then had 2 huge hits in the 1978 playoff game, including a solo shot agains Ron Guidry, only the 2nd HR Guidry gave up to a left handed batter all season. His last at bat that game was soul crushing.

In the spirit of the thread, I agree it should be Pedro. But clutch Yaz was an important player. He just wasn't the same everyday player from 1971 onward due to mistreated injuries.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I think you have to take a pitcher, so, Pedro, or Clemens if he is unavailable. Aside from the dominance, Pedro averaged 198 innings pitched per year during his 7 years with Boston (even though he started only 18 games one year due to injury). 198 innings would have put him 6th in MLB last year.

If you go pure hitter, I think it has to be Manny to plug into LF, because @BaseballJones is right - the team could use a HoF caliber RH bat.

If you think about positional need, then Carlton Fisk or Jason Varitek to fill the club's biggest hole, catcher. Alternatively, either Mookie Betts, who can plug into 2B or the OF and bats RH, or Nomar, because... do we really trust Story's health/Mayer's readiness/Rafalela to cover SS?

After that I go closer with Papelbon or Uehara.

Basically, I find myself landing exactly where @BaseballJones did.

 

[PRabbit]

Prime Pedro adds 10 WAR to this roster. Maybe a bit more.

 

[BuellMiller]

In the end, every thread is a Mookie thread.

Our version of Godwins Law.

 

[Paveskovich's Pole]

... I go closer with Papelbon or Uehara.

Dick Radatz out of the bullpen.

 

[PedroisGod]

Pedro. Lock the thread. Pedro's 1997-2004 peak is arguably the best of all time considering the era he pitched in.

As always: @PedroisGod.

No question. What I would give to see prime Pedro pitching in today's era...

 

[Timduhda]

I think we meed another left starter. How about someone who is just a thrower. My pick is the 1973 version of Spaceman, Bill Lee. Nice little 17-11 record and 6.3 war. Billl is a friend of my brother so I’m a little partial. Can’t figure out how to upload a pic lol

 

[PedroisGod]

I’m sure there are plenty of flaws with this sort of statistical analysis, but Pedro’s 1999 was a truly ridiculous season. Pedro had 313 K in 213.1 IP. That was good for a 37.5 K% in a season where the average was 16.4%. To compare to 2024, the average K% was 22.6%. If hitters struck out at the same rate in 1999 as they did in 2024, Pedro’s 37.5 K% would be like a 51.7 K%. 313 strikeouts would be more like 432 strikeouts.

 

[simplicio]

I think we meed another left starter. How about someone who is just a thrower. My pick is the 1973 version of Spaceman, Bill Lee. Nice little 17-11 record and 6.3 war. Billl is a friend of my brother so I’m a little partial. Can’t figure out how to upload a pic lol

Bill sharing a roster with Casas would be incredible.

 

[Timduhda]

I’m sure there are plenty of flaws with this sort of statistical analysis, but Pedro’s 1999 was a truly ridiculous season. Pedro had 313 K in 213.1 IP. That was good for a 37.5 K% in a season where the average was 16.4%. To compare to 2024, the average K% was 22.6%. If hitters struck out at the same rate in 1999 as they did in 2024, Pedro’s 37.5 K% would be like a 51.7 K%. 313 strikeouts would be more like 432 strikeouts.
[/QUOTE

I’m not disagreeing with you, Pedro was the best. 1999 was an incredible year for him and 2000was just as good IMO, but I thought we were having additions to this years team. Pedro can’t pitch every day so I thought I would add some balance to the staff.

 

[dhappy42]

Probably best for a new thread, but I'm not sure there'd be enough interest in this discussion so I'll leave it here and let the mods decide. We've done this exercise before with the Patriots...now let's do it with the Sox. Looking at this current roster, as it is right this moment, who's the one guy from, say, 1969 to the present, that played with Boston but that you'd want on this team right now? Here are some of my options:

Position players/hitters

- Carlton Fisk. They have a glaring hole at C and adding a Hall of Fame catcher would solve that problem pretty quickly.

- Dustin Pedroia. They also have a bit of a hole at 2b. Adding a Hall of Fame caliber player (though I doubt Pedroia will actually make the HOF) would help considerably.

- Jim Rice or Manny Ramirez. Rice is in the HOF; Manny would be if not for steroids. They need a big RH bat and a left fielder. Both of them fit the bill perfectly.

- Mookie Betts. They could easily slide Abreu to LF and have Mookie in right. Solves the RH hitting problem and adds great defense and base running as well.

- David Ortiz. Nothing like having the man himself hitting in the DH position for this team.

- Nomar Garciaparra. Allows them to move Story to 2b and have an elite, HOF level player at short. Huge offensive upgrade from the right side.


Pitchers

- Pedro Martinez. Why? Because he's the best ever, that's why.

- Roger Clemens. HOF stud who also pitches more innings than Pedro.

- Curt Schilling. Another stud SP who always comes up big in huge spots.

- Koji Uehara. Want to lock the game down late? Here's your guy.

- Jonathan Papelbon. Another electric closer.

- Chris Sale. Two dominant lefties in the rotation? Not a bad idea at all.

Pedro. Not even close.

 

[TapeAndPosts]

I’m sure there are plenty of flaws with this sort of statistical analysis, but Pedro’s 1999 was a truly ridiculous season. Pedro had 313 K in 213.1 IP. That was good for a 37.5 K% in a season where the average was 16.4%. To compare to 2024, the average K% was 22.6%. If hitters struck out at the same rate in 1999 as they did in 2024, Pedro’s 37.5 K% would be like a 51.7 K%. 313 strikeouts would be more like 432 strikeouts.

Pedro's ERA+ in 1999 was 243, second best in the league was Cone with 136. In 2000 his ERA+ was 291 (!!!) while second place was Mike Sirotka with 133. If we really get to replace our 5th starter with prime Pedro, there's no other improvement that can compare.

In the end, every thread is a Mookie thread.

Every now and then we also have threads that just turn into gratuitous "wasn't Pedro amazing" threads, and those are much better.

 

[BrandyWhine]

It would have to be Pedro or Mookie.
I also like the idea of Carlton Fisk. He'd improve the pitching staff and help with RH power.

 

[BaseballJones]

I’m sure there are plenty of flaws with this sort of statistical analysis, but Pedro’s 1999 was a truly ridiculous season. Pedro had 313 K in 213.1 IP. That was good for a 37.5 K% in a season where the average was 16.4%. To compare to 2024, the average K% was 22.6%. If hitters struck out at the same rate in 1999 as they did in 2024, Pedro’s 37.5 K% would be like a 51.7 K%. 313 strikeouts would be more like 432 strikeouts.

There’s never been a better pitcher in the history of baseball than Pedro Martinez.

 

[dhappy42]

There’s never been a better pitcher in the history of baseball than Pedro Martinez.

Probably a discussion for another thread, but... Satchel Paige?

 

[Max Power]

Yes, the answer is obviously Pedro. But the second place question is interesting. If Yaz is not an option, I think it has to come down to Manny versus Fisk. Going from Grissom to Pedroia, Story to Nomar, or Abreu/Refsnyder to Mookie would be upgrades, but not nearly as much as going from Rafaela's bat to Manny's or Wong to Fisk on offense or defense. I'd lean toward Manny because I love him, and the team currently lacks an MVP level bat. But Fisk may actually be the larger upgrade in total.

 

[dhappy42]

Yes, the answer is obviously Pedro. But the second place question is interesting. If Yaz is not an option, I think it has to come down to Manny versus Fisk. Going from Grissom to Pedroia, Story to Nomar, or Abreu/Refsnyder to Mookie would be upgrades, but not nearly as much as going from Rafaela's bat to Manny's or Wong to Fisk on offense or defense. I'd lean toward Manny because I love him, and the team currently lacks an MVP level bat. But Fisk may actually be the larger upgrade in total.

My if-not-Pedro vote goes to 1990 Roger Clemens (21 wins, 1.93 ERA, and 10.4 bWAR.)

This team needs ace-level pitching more than a right-handed power bat. (Not that it doesn't need a right-handed power bat.) Yaz, by the way, was worth 12.5 bWAR in 1967. Fisk and Manny were 7ish bWAR players in their best seasons.

 

[sezwho]

Agree with Pedro is King crew.

It would be amazing to drop Manny between Devers and casas next year though.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Pedro. But if you told me that I couldn't have him, I'd take Papi and deal with all of our hitting being left handed.

 

[JodyReed13]

Pedro, Pedro, Pedro.
On this team or any.
Who's playing for second?

I think it has to be Pedro overall. 20ks Roger might have something to say.

For bats, it's Papi, Ted Williams, Yaz, and maybe Manny in that order.

I never really cared that much about Manny's weird/anti-social behavior, his non-urgency in the field, or his occasional day off. I just loved the way he hit.

 

[Daniel_Son]

For me, the only question is are we taking '99 Pedro or '00 Pedro