Again, I am fairly sure (but not positive) that the CBA does not allow this type of gamesmanship in terms of either front-loading or back-loading contracts.
Moops, How much would you pay for Marcus Smart? Forget that he has no offers THIS year.Why are we paying Smart nearly 12 million dollars a year in any of these scenarios? That is a ridiculous overpay considering he has no offers. If the choice is him playing for one year at the QO and maybe leaving next year, vs paying him 4/46, I will take the former every single time.
Why would I forget that he has no offers this year? That fact is a huge part of the negotiation. That 6.1 million for one year is the starting point of all negotiations.Moops, How much would you pay for Marcus Smart? Forget that he has no offers THIS year.
No, it doesn't. I believe he maximum yearly decrease is 4.5%. You can offer a 15% signing bonus up front, but the bonus spread over the life of the deal for cap purposes. I don't think a deal like the one Nick Collison had would be possible under the new CBA.Again, I am fairly sure (but not positive) that the CBA does not allow this type of gamesmanship in terms of either front-loading or back-loading contracts.
Assuming a team is using Bird rights, decreases like raises are capped at 8% per year. You can have declining deals. The contact IT signed with the Suns was one.Again, I am fairly sure (but not positive) that the CBA does not allow this type of gamesmanship in terms of either front-loading or back-loading contracts.
4/46 is essentially a touch over MLE money, and if they could lock him up for that, which is fair market for someone like him, the contract would have been signed already. The problem is that last fall, when trying to negotiate an extension, Boston was offering more than that. And almost certainly so that he would have sufficient salary to act as ballast in a trade on July 1st.Why are we paying Smart nearly 12 million dollars a year in any of these scenarios? That is a ridiculous overpay considering he has no offers. If the choice is him playing for one year at the QO and maybe leaving next year, vs paying him 4/46, I will take the former every single time.
That's the first year salary. Over four years it works out to around $39 million. So, yes, 46 is a touch over MLE money. And a lot less than what Boston was rumoured to have offered last fall. But that contract offer made sense if you wanted $13-$14 million available to form the cash basis for a trade for someone like Leonard or DavisThe MLE is 8.6 million this year. A 4/46 is quite a bit away from a touch over MLE money
My math say 38.9 million. I do suck at math sometimes thoughA 4-year deal starting at next year's MLE (9%) with 8% raises is a shade over $40M.
In fairness that's not what he's saying, he's saying that Rozier and Irving can't really be on the floor at the same time (especially come playoff time). And due to a lack of size that's probably true. I mean it wouldn't be as bad as the Lil' Zeke/Avery backcourt, but it's still pretty tough in the switchy era because opponents would have two guys to hunt out.Ugh. Let me get this straight. You'd like to sign Smart for 4yrs @ $50M. Turn around and deal MaMo for a ham sandwich (due to salary/repeater purposes). Then deal Rozier (who didn't yield a first rounder last year) this Summer for what? Because you think Rozier's defense is Kyrie-like?
I know Terry didn't cover himself in glory when he was rotated on Lebron in the playoffs, but no one stopped Bron. The rest of the year Terry was fine defensively and better than Kyrie.
Yes, they traded him before it became a problem.We heard this same nonsense when IT4 was talking contract and we see how that ended up.
No disagreement -- and please note that I was not advocating for a long-term deal for Smart.For every Malcolm Butler 1yr bad contract situation, there are 5 Pablo Sandoval bad multi-yr guaranteed contracts. Those 4yr deals are much more crippling for an organization than one unhappy camper for one season.
I suck at math too but Excel usually gets it right.My math say 38.9 million. I do suck at math sometimes though
Classic recency bias from McPickle. One team last season, the Cavs in the ECF (specifically Lebron) hunted out Rozier on defense. Lebron is an outlier. At the end of the day, defense didn't even cost them that series, it was Game 7 shooting from 3 guards. Rozier's defense is more than fine, while Kyrie's is below average.In fairness that's not what he's saying, he's saying that Rozier and Irving can't really be on the floor at the same time (especially come playoff time). And due to a lack of size that's probably true. I mean it wouldn't be as bad as the Lil' Zeke/Avery backcourt, but it's still pretty tough in the switchy era because opponents would have two guys to hunt out.
Sign and trade for what? And if you do that his salary is half what you sign him for in the trade.If you don't like Smart enough to keep him, do a sign and trade now, instead of letting him walk for nothing in June, 2019.
The problem is that when the 6'1" Rozier and the 6'3"ish Irving are on the floor together, it opens up offensive options for the other team. In essence there are two guys that you can try to get your scoring 6'6"-6'8" guys on to.Classic recency bias from McPickle. One team last season, the Cavs in the ECF (specifically Lebron) hunted out Rozier on defense. Lebron is an outlier. At the end of the day, defense didn't even cost them that series, it was Game 7 shooting from 3 guards. Rozier's defense is more than fine, while Kyrie's is below average.
Good news. On a healthy Celtics team they won’t be.The problem is that when the 6'1" Rozier and the 6'3"ish Irving are on the floor together, it opens up offensive options for the other team. In essence there are two guys that you can try to get your scoring 6'6"-6'8" guys on to.
Terry's problems weren't about his defense, per se, they were about his size. He just doesn't have a lot of it. And Irving may be 6'3"ish in his sneakers, but he isn't a long 6'3"ish, which causes him difficulty with taller/longer guys. So, no, they can't be on the floor together in the playoffs. That's what he was saying.
It's certainly subject to change but right now the 2019 draft is looking to be pretty wing heavy and light on PGs. We'll see if someone emerges like Trae Young did.There's a lot of long term value in not paying the luxtax this year. Getting Marcus to settle for $6 million instead off $10m or more could mean the owners save $50 million or more in seasons down the road, because the team staying under the tax line kicks in the repeater tax a year later.
Assuming Kyrie accepts a max deal next summer, and Brown and Tatum both sign big deals here when eligible, the owners are looking at hefty luxtax payments as the team contends for titles. Teams are running out of room to give Smart an offer sheet, and vets are signing for crumbs as roster slots diminish.
If Smart's feelings are hurt and he decides to bolt next season, that the risk the Celtics will take. If Kyrie chooses to leave, they can make eight figure/season offers to Smart and Rozier and try to fill the hole left by Kyrie bolting. If Smart goes elsewhere, they can extend Rozier, and pick the next franchise PG in the draft with the Sacto pick.
So you are saying that Smart might help you win a title next year, but he's not cost-effective after that?Smart on a title contending team next year >>> whatever middling asset you bring back for him.
<sigh> This was mcpickl's point, on a healthy Celtics team Rozier won't get a lot of playing time and once you lose the fall negotiating window he doesn't have a lot of value. So you should trade him now while he still has it.Good news. On a healthy Celtics team they won’t be.
Why are using 9 million for year 1?I suck at math too but Excel usually gets it right.
9
9.72
10.4976
11.337408
Total: 40.555008
Ok cool. I'll fall back on my original premise then...It's beyond SILLY to start doling out minutes in a playoff series 9 months down the road. We have no idea who the opponent would be or if they would be going small/fast. But I'm 100% confident that Brad Stevens would recognize height/matchup situation and go with the suitable match up. There will be plenty of playoff minutes for Kyrie and Rozier to coexist on the same team.The problem is that when the 6'1" Rozier and the 6'3"ish Irving are on the floor together, it opens up offensive options for the other team. In essence there are two guys that you can try to get your scoring 6'6"-6'8" guys on to.
Terry's problems weren't about his defense, per se, they were about his size. He just doesn't have a lot of it. And Irving may be 6'3"ish in his sneakers, but he isn't a long 6'3"ish, which causes him difficulty with taller/longer guys. So, no, they can't be on the floor together in the playoffs. That's what he was saying.
My point was that you were mischaracterizing his argument. And he's not even "doling out minutes" so much as saying that "this defensive alignment sucks motherfucking donkey balls and shouldn't ever happen unless there are no other possible options".Ok cool. I'll fall back on my original premise then...It's beyond SILLY to start doling out minutes in a playoff series 9 months down the road. We have no idea who the opponent would be or if they would be going small/fast. But I'm 100% confident that Brad Stevens would recognize height/matchup situation and go with the suitable match up. There will be plenty of playoff minutes for Kyrie and Rozier to coexist on the same team.
Yes, my bad. I thought the $9.073 number was for the upcoming year. Lousy eyesight.Why are using 9 million for year 1?
It has been set at 8.641
OK that was his argumentMy point was that you were mischaracterizing his argument. And he's not even "doling out minutes" so much as saying that "this defensive alignment sucks motherfucking donkey balls and shouldn't ever happen unless there are no other possible options".
.
You aren't letting him walk for nothing. We are favorites to reach the NBA Finals from the EC.....there is huge value in having Smart play a bench role this season.If you don't like Smart enough to keep him, do a sign and trade now, instead of letting him walk for nothing in June, 2019.
Man, if Brad Stevens gets to hand pick the opponents lineups, he's even better than I thought.OK that was his argument
Maybe he can tell me who we are playing in 9 months in the playoffs? Here are some potential playoff matchups I'm fine with Irving/Rozier being on the floor together.
Toronto- Lowry, Van Fleet - fine
Philly - McConnell, Redick - fine
Milwaukee - Bledsoe, Dellavadova - fine
Wizards- Satoransky, Beal - fine
Pacers- Collison, Joseph - fine
etc
My counterpoint is what pair is guarding Irving/Rozier? Because Terry and Kyrie are torching that group.
IMO they don’t have a huge need for another PG even if Rozier and Smart leave next year. If Kyrie stays, any one of a number of wings they have plus Horford can run the point with the 2nd unit. If they get a top 10 pick from Sacramento, I’d be more than happy drafting a wing like Reddish/Barrett/Little/Hachimura and worrying about PG later in the draft or another Euro player. They’ve been very successful getting diamonds in the rough over there.It's certainly subject to change but right now the 2019 draft is looking to be pretty wing heavy and light on PGs. We'll see if someone emerges like Trae Young did.
Justin Termine and Eddie Johnson aren't the most analytical NBA pundits out there but they seem pretty well connected to the rumor mill/inside baseball stories floating around the league. Today on NBA Radio, they were discussing Irving as part of the Butler situation and they made it sound like there is, indeed, more than just smoke about Kyrie leaving the Celtics after this season.At this point in time, with Brooklyn's move to clear up their 2020 payroll and create room for two max salary slots (and possibly more if they can convert that Denver #1 and Crabbe into additional 2020 cap space), and the rumors swirling around Butler/Irving and the reality that Irving and Durant are good buddies, I expect Boston to get Smart inked to a three or four year deal and to extend Rozier this fall as a hedge against the worst case scenario coming to pass next summer. Because at this point there's enough smoke that they need to start planning for a fire.
The way the NBA is headed, at some point a team is just going to say "f it" and roll out an all-wing lineup. If you have wings who can run elite PnRs, as Hayward already can, and Tatum is on track to learn, at a certain point you start to question whether it's worth having a sub 6-5 guy on the floor at all.It's certainly subject to change but right now the 2019 draft is looking to be pretty wing heavy and light on PGs. We'll see if someone emerges like Trae Young did.
The main tell, of course, would be if Kyrie gets traded.If this is more than just speculation, I suspect Ainge et al are aware of it and are planning accordingly. One tell may well be how the Smart situation is resolved as well how they deal with Rozier heading into the fall.
I'm glad we're still doing this.Toronto- Lowry, Van Fleet - fine
just looked it up...VanVleet, I guess?I'm glad we're still doing this.
My mobile browser tends to respell his name as Van Fleet, when I’m on the tablet I catch it, on the phone I occasionally miss it.just looked it up...VanVleet, I guess?
Hopefully it's because of these guys, who Zep it up in fine style.My mobile browser tends to respell his name as Van Fleet, when I’m on the tablet I catch it, on the phone I occasionally miss it.
This is partly why I was intrigued by a Kawhi/Kyrie trade that would never happen.The way the NBA is headed, at some point a team is just going to say "f it" and roll out an all-wing lineup. If you have wings who can run elite PnRs, as Hayward already can, and Tatum is on track to learn, at a certain point you start to question whether it's worth having a sub 6-5 guy on the floor at all.
The Celtics clearly want to keep Kyrie, since he's never been played off the floor in a playoff series, and is massively valuable offensively in crunchtime. But if he is gone due to injury or FA choice, I wouldn't be surprised if they punt on the PG position altogether in crunchtime lineups (assuming continued development from Tatum).
If Kyrie knew he was in Boston only through this season would he have spent the past week in Vegas with the young Boston kids? There is plenty of reason to believe that these Knicks/Butler rumors has little merit and that Kyrie is loving where he is now. Aside from him skipping game 7 and hearing unbiased rumors what else suggests Kyrie is planning on bolting?Justin Termine and Eddie Johnson aren't the most analytical NBA pundits out there but they seem pretty well connected to the rumor mill/inside baseball stories floating around the league. Today on NBA Radio, they were discussing Irving as part of the Butler situation and they made it sound like there is, indeed, more than just smoke about Kyrie leaving the Celtics after this season.
If this is more than just speculation, I suspect Ainge et al are aware of it and are planning accordingly. One tell may well be how the Smart situation is resolved as well how they deal with Rozier heading into the fall.
I was sitting across from him and Jaylen during the game, and they seemed to be having a great time. I think if his contract came up today, he'd snap re-sign. The worry would be that Knox develops well, Porzingis comes back strong, Ntilikina is ok, and someone like Kawhi decides that NYC is the place for him to get his big shoe deal. That's a lot of pieces to come together, but I could see him having a change of heart in that circumstance.If Kyrie knew he was in Boston only through this season would he have spent the past week in Vegas with the young Boston kids? There is plenty of reason to believe that these Knicks/Butler rumors has little merit and that Kyrie is loving where he is now. Aside from him skipping game 7 and hearing unbiased rumors what else suggests Kyrie is planning on bolting?
To be clear, I am not saying that Kyrie is leaving. However some people connected to the league seem to think there is a reasonable chance he is gone after this year. Termine and Johnson aren't the only ones either based on the reports we've seen.If Kyrie knew he was in Boston only through this season would he have spent the past week in Vegas with the young Boston kids? There is plenty of reason to believe that these Knicks/Butler rumors has little merit and that Kyrie is loving where he is now. Aside from him skipping game 7 and hearing unbiased rumors what else suggests Kyrie is planning on bolting?
The qualifying offer expires on October 1st, so he'd need to find another offer or sign it by then.So how long do we expect this High Noon to drag on?
Another 2 1/2 months of nothingburgers.So how long do we expect this High Noon to drag on?
Sherriff Dan is sitting back at the local saloon with his feet kicked up waiting for Hapalong Walters to show up with an offer sheet from the next county.So how long do we expect this High Noon to drag on?
If it's obvious that anyone with cap space isn't interested, does it make sense for him to wait? Maybe hope for a training camp injury?The qualifying offer expires on October 1st, so he'd need to find another offer or sign it by then.