Gesicki signs with Pats

Jinhocho

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Unless they get rid of Henry I think the answer seems to be that BOB and BB think they could be viable together, otherwise you're paying an awful lot for a back-up TE who helps out in some goal line/heavy formations. Of course BB seemed to think Henry/Smith would be a viable pairing and they were not.
It doesn't cost them much to get rid of Henry. I am waiting to see if he is the next shoe to drop.
 

Justthetippett

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my initial guess is they wait through the draft to see how that falls.
That makes sense. Henry could be attractive to a team like CIN that wants to make a run and just lost Hurst. And if they draft Washington or a guy like Kuntz maybe he's no longer as needed here. That said he's a guy Mac jives with more than most. With Jakobi gone they could use some continuity.
 

54thMA

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To me the biggest "upgrade" they've made in the off season is hiring/installing a real OC and also hiring an Offensive Line coach vs what they had last year.

I have no doubt the new OC has some input as to who they are bringing in and also more to the point, who they let go, he's tailoring the offense to the players they have under contract and also who they are choosing to bring in.

Bring in a few more guys if need be, draft well and go from there.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Robinson is an unknown and if you want to compare to last year, RB group is a downgrade with Robinson but without Harris.

Reiff is hopefully an upgrade but many would rank Wynn higher.


Overall though good, solid moves.
How often was Harris healthy? If we have someone who sees the field consistently I consider it an upgrade. I loved D.Harris but he was never healthy. Rham is better. K.Harris looked good. Strong looked good. Add Robinson and maybe Ty Montgomery and that’s an upgrade. I’m also 100% down with going after Bijan Robinson. So YMMV.
 

Cellar-Door

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How often was Harris healthy? If we have someone who sees the field consistently I consider it an upgrade. I loved D.Harris but he was never healthy. Rham is better. K.Harris looked good. Strong looked good. Add Robinson and maybe Ty Montgomery and that’s an upgrade. I’m also 100% down with going after Bijan Robinson. So YMMV.
I think Harris was the best pure runner on the team, he didn't have the tools or post-contact ability of Rham, but he saw holes much better and was more reliable at executing the play and getting what he should.
Damien Harris (when healthy) was a really good early down back. Robinson hypothetically brings more in the passing game which is nice, but he's been dubiously healthy for several years himself.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I think Harris was the best pure runner on the team, he didn't have the tools or post-contact ability of Rham, but he saw holes much better and was more reliable at executing the play and getting what he should.
Damien Harris (when healthy) was a really good early down back. Robinson hypothetically brings more in the passing game which is nice, but he's been dubiously healthy for several years himself.
You thought Harris was a better pure runner than Stevenson?

You're on drugs.
 

Cellar-Door

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You thought Harris was a better pure runner than Stevenson?

You're on drugs.
Not really, he was hurt and/or dinged almost all last year so Rhamondre had the clear better season, Harris was better in 2021 and he was excellent in 2020. Rhamondre is awesome, and he's a better passcatcher, but Harris was remarkable those 2 years and I think his vision is better by a good bit. Now maybe your define pure runner differently than me, but over the last few years I think Harris has on the balance been the guy who is better at taking a handoff and getting you efficient yards.
 

Mooch

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Per Miguel, the Pats still have $17M in cap space. Plenty of room to add another key piece or two offensively. I think if NE can get a true #1 WR, this Gesicki signing will be a perfect fit.
 

Eddie Jurak

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They are different style runners. I'd say Stevenson is better (hard to even contest that), but there are certain things Harris did better.

To me, Harris was more of a "hit the hole hard and make one cutback" guy. Stevenson more of a "read and react, make the first guy miss, then break tackles and flat out run over people" guy. I think they missed Harris in the red zone a lot last year.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Not really, he was hurt and/or dinged almost all last year so Rhamondre had the clear better season, Harris was better in 2021 and he was excellent in 2020. Rhamondre is awesome, and he's a better passcatcher, but Harris was remarkable those 2 years and I think his vision is better by a good bit. Now maybe your define pure runner differently than me, but over the last few years I think Harris has on the balance been the guy who is better at taking a handoff and getting you efficient yards.
Remarkable? I liked him too but he was a one trick pony. He did that one thing well but it limited them to what they could do on the field. Pair that with an inability to stay healthy and that's replaceable. Kevin Harris could be that next year. For me, Damien Harris has a Sony Michel like future ahead of him. Hope he can stay on the field but RBs that get hurt as they get old fade fast.
 

Justthetippett

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Harris's market is going to be pretty limited. I don't know why they wouldn't seek to being him back on a reasonable deal. K. Harris and Strong may work out butt they are no sure thing. D. Harris has shown he can produce in the league. I get the second contract considerations generally but those don't apply equally to RBs, which really struggle to find that second deal unless they are in the truly elite category.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Harris's market is going to be pretty limited. I don't know why they wouldn't seek to being him back on a reasonable deal. K. Harris and Strong may work out butt they are no sure thing. D. Harris has shown he can produce in the league. I get the second contract considerations generally but those don't apply equally to RBs, which really struggle to find that second deal unless they are in the truly elite category.
I'd bring him back in a second if the price is right. Rhamondre was overworked last year and D.Harris is good and brings different strengths.

Strong is hopefully on the Shane Vereen/James White path. I expect very little from K.Harris.
 

BaseballJones

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Harris's market is going to be pretty limited. I don't know why they wouldn't seek to being him back on a reasonable deal. K. Harris and Strong may work out butt they are no sure thing. D. Harris has shown he can produce in the league. I get the second contract considerations generally but those don't apply equally to RBs, which really struggle to find that second deal unless they are in the truly elite category.
They might, who knows. Maybe his market is limited and the Pats can get him back for pretty cheap. I'm sure they wouldn't flat out say no to that if the price was right. He's obviously a good player.
 

Auger34

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How often was Harris healthy? If we have someone who sees the field consistently I consider it an upgrade. I loved D.Harris but he was never healthy. Rham is better. K.Harris looked good. Strong looked good. Add Robinson and maybe Ty Montgomery and that’s an upgrade. I’m also 100% down with going after Bijan Robinson. So YMMV.
I’m a little confused by this post but if we are talking about health issues, Damien Harris has been much more healthy than James Robinson
 

DJnVa

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I’m a little confused by this post but if we are talking about health issues, Damien Harris has been much more healthy than James Robinson
Sure, but I doubt Harris was signing the contract that Robinson just did.
 

SMU_Sox

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@Eddie Jurak is right imo. Harris was more of a one cut and go guy and a cutback artist. Stevenson was a little more patient and someone who used his power and shiftiness well.
 

Justthetippett

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They might, who knows. Maybe his market is limited and the Pats can get him back for pretty cheap. I'm sure they wouldn't flat out say no to that if the price was right. He's obviously a good player.
From his social media posts, it has sounded like things have soured between him and the team. In the past that's happened when the player didn't get a real offer. This could all be incorrect but the trend is in the direction of him going elsewhere, which I just find odd. He'll probably sign for what, 2yrs/8million or something in that vicinity?
 

Eddie Jurak

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@Eddie Jurak is right imo. Harris was more of a one cut and go guy and a cutback artist. Stevenson was a little more patient and someone who used his power and shiftiness well.
This is part of why I think they are going more spread this year. Stevenson isn't a great matchup for a sub defense is he? They will spread the field and run a more coordinated version of the short game they tried to use later in the season, with big plays coming from Mac taking some shots or Stevenson doing his thing.
 

BaseballJones

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A spread offense with a power back would be interesting. Lots of shotgun and 4 receiver sets (with or without a guy like Gesicki in there) with Rhamondre in the backfield... teams have to kind of play small in order to play adequate pass defense, but that leaves Rhamondre to run over smaller tacklers.
 

Eddie Jurak

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A spread offense with a power back would be interesting. Lots of shotgun and 4 receiver sets (with or without a guy like Gesicki in there) with Rhamondre in the backfield... teams have to kind of play small in order to play adequate pass defense, but that leaves Rhamondre to run over smaller tacklers.
It is like the inverse of the Gronk and XXXXX (or Bennett) 12 sets. There the goal was to force the team into its base defense to stop the run and the be able to pass. Here the goal would be lighter passing sets, force D to be small/sub, and then run. I like both D.Harris and Stevenson, but in addition to being the better of the two, Stevenson I see as more able to create a positive play on his own tha Harris was.
 

SMU_Sox

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When you look at the teams who ran the most 10 in 2021 (we don’t have 2022 data) it was the Cardinals, Bills, and Jets. 4 receiver sets work well if you have a running QB. You lose a lot in the running game because you don’t have a TE blocker. If your QB can run it’s a lot more viable. HT @Super Nomario - also the way the league is trending the best teams are winning with more heavy formations. That’s why Bill tried the two TEs. It didn’t work but you can see why he wanted to do that. Right now defenses are moving to more 2 safety sets and stopping spread. I don’t think it’s the best idea going forward. They really need an in-line blocking tight end or a fullback.
 

Eddie Jurak

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When you look at the teams who ran the most 10 in 2021 (we don’t have 2022 data) it was the Cardinals, Bills, and Jets. 4 receiver sets work well if you have a running QB. You lose a lot in the running game because you don’t have a TE blocker. If your QB can run it’s a lot more viable. HT @Super Nomario - also the way the league is trending the best teams are winning with more heavy formations. That’s why Bill tried the two TEs. It didn’t work but you can see why he wanted to do that. Right now defenses are moving to more 2 safety sets and stopping spread. I don’t think it’s the best idea going forward. They really need an in-line blocking tight end or a fullback.
I buy all of that. But they have the players they have, the QB they have. They see what is out there on the market to get at what price.

You can't go 2 TE as a heavier formation that can still pass effectively without the right TEs. Henry/Smith didn't work, and Henry/Gesicki wouldn't work as a heavy formation. I think we'll see a lot of Henry/Gesicki/Stevenson/2 WRs this year, but it won't be a heavy 12 set that forces defenses to stop the run, because Henry and Gesicki obviously aren't Gronk and Martellus Bennett.

I do think they need an in-line TE.