Gesicki signs with Pats

BaseballJones

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Interesting. I mean, he's a good football player. Will be curious about the terms, but we know he's a very capable tight end.
 

Mooch

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Will be interested in the terms but on paper, Gesicki makes sense for the Pats. He’s a very tough cover in the slot against man coverage. Kind of the opposite of JuJu in that way.
 

joe dokes

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Well, his warts are well-known (blocking, it seems). But to avoid making myself crazy in March, I'm going with, "O'Brien, unlike his predecessor, knows what he's doing and must like him for whatever he has planned for the offense."
 

BigJimEd

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Wait and see the terms. Another slot receiver.

O'B is familiar with him and presumably wanted him.
 

cornwalls@6

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Interesting. He’s a good receiving talent, and I think would be productive here. Curious to see the numbers. I also wonder where this leaves Henry. Does he get traded now, and they draft a bigger, better blocking tight end early? Or do they keep him, and take a flyer on one in the middle/later rounds? Would think Bill will want some more physicality at the position either way. Also, I hope this doesn’t preclude continuing to pursue trade possibilities for an upgrade at WR.
 

Bowser

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Well, the Broncos could use a TE. Their top guy, Greg Dulcich, went for 33/411/2 last season.
 

sodenj5

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Wait and see the terms. Another slot receiver.

O'B is familiar with him and presumably wanted him.
This is really how you have to view him.

Gesicki is a really outstanding contested ball catcher with a big catch radius and typically very reliable hands.

I would say his ability to separate is probably a bit misleading. He’s actually a pretty poor separator but he makes up for that usually with making contested catches. He has long speed so on seam balls and vertical routes he gets open, but underneath stuff, not really.

He also offers near nothing in the run game and with the ball in his hands. Not trying to poo poo on him because he’s signing with New England, just trying to tell you what I’ve seen after watching him for 5 years.

If you’re using him as a big slot receiver, or a red zone threat, that’s fine. The problem is when he’s on the field, you know with near 99% certainty that it’s a pass. Because of that, he rarely gets matched up on a LB, where he would probably have an advantage, and instead is almost always seeing a S or nickel DB, where again, he struggles to get open and gets tackled almost immediately.

Best of luck to Mike moving forward. He’s a stand up dude that didn’t say a peep last year about essentially being relegated to a backup player. Definitely a team first guy.
 

BaseballJones

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2022 YAC/Rec

Andrews: 3.3
Hooper: 3.2
Gesicki: 3.0
Waller: 2.9
Ertz: 2.8

Yards after contact per rec

Andrews: 0.9
Hooper: 0.8
Gesicki: 0.7
Bryant: 0.7
Fant: 0.6
Tonyan: 0.6
Ertz: 0.5
Henry: 0.5
Waller: 0.5

It's not like Gesicki is Aaron Hernandez or Gronk once he catches the ball (is it still ok to reference Aaron Hernandez the FOOTBALL PLAYER??? I need a ruling). But he's adequate compared to other TEs. Definitely not top of the line, but adequate.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Like the player, think he's basically Hunter Henry. Still don't know how you fit Gesicki/Henry/Schuster into the same offense. Very limited versatility there.
Gesicki is a much better athlete but yeah a Gesicki/Henry duo isn’t quite a pair you can line up in any formation with. Predictability on offense has been an issue (at least last year it was), so I’d love to see them add a TE who can maul in the run game.
 

rodderick

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Gesicki is a much better athlete I believe but yeah a Gesicki/Henry duo isn’t quite a pair you can line up in any formation with. Predictability has been an issue, so I’d love to see them add a TE who can maul in the run game.
Honestly, the best route to go would probably be to just release Henry and get a blocking/all around TE in the third/fourth round. Then I'd like the group a lot better.
 

Harry Hooper

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Maybe the Pats are working on a trade for a top WR where Henry, Bourne, or even Parker might be part of the package heading out?
 

Mooch

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If you’re using him as a big slot receiver, or a red zone threat, that’s fine. The problem is when he’s on the field, you know with near 99% certainty that it’s a pass. Because of that, he rarely gets matched up on a LB, where he would probably have an advantage, and instead is almost always seeing a S or nickel DB, where again, he struggles to get open and gets tackled almost immediately.
This sounds like a QB problem with pre-snap audibles, unless you feel like Gesicki can’t block DBs.
 

Fishercat

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This is really how you have to view him.

Gesicki is a really outstanding contested ball catcher with a big catch radius and typically very reliable hands.

I would say his ability to separate is probably a bit misleading. He’s actually a pretty poor separator but he makes up for that usually with making contested catches. He has long speed so on seam balls and vertical routes he gets open, but underneath stuff, not really.

He also offers near nothing in the run game and with the ball in his hands. Not trying to poo poo on him because he’s signing with New England, just trying to tell you what I’ve seen after watching him for 5 years.

If you’re using him as a big slot receiver, or a red zone threat, that’s fine. The problem is when he’s on the field, you know with near 99% certainty that it’s a pass. Because of that, he rarely gets matched up on a LB, where he would probably have an advantage, and instead is almost always seeing a S or nickel DB, where again, he struggles to get open and gets tackled almost immediately.

Best of luck to Mike moving forward. He’s a stand up dude that didn’t say a peep last year about essentially being relegated to a backup player. Definitely a team first guy.
This is generally what I've heard other Miami fans say and I'd tend to believe it. I know as Pats fans we kind of want any player they sign, especially one who can be a playmaker like Gesicki on catches, to be able to do the other things but Miami's coaching is strong and clearly Tua and the team can support receivers producing really well. That Gesicki couldn't find a good role blocking or as a tertiary guy to Hill and Waddle seems to support all of this.

It's an interesting signing. On one hand, the Patriots desperately need guys who can stay on the field and make a contested catch. Devante Parker was/is a guy like that...if he's on the field. Gesicki feels like another one. The issue is, to tims point and yours...if Gesicki can't block and Henry is primarily a receiving TE, the "two TE and Rhamondre" plan doesn't really work. It really makes me wonder if there's another deal in the works that sends Henry out (which I'd be sad about) or if they're really committing to a wholesale offense change that move away from interior running, Rham and Beg For 5 YAC, etc. What worries me about this is that it's Mac Year 3 and it's his third different OC/OC Type in those three years, that's a recipe for disaster especially if BOB is going towards a wider, quicker offense as it seems like it may with the Robinson and Gesicki signings.
 

BaseballJones

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Folks, this is why Gronk was SO valuable. He was a premier receiving tight end and a premier blocking tight end. Having him on the field was the ultimate queen on the chessboard. You could do anything with him there.
 

rodderick

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Folks, this is why Gronk was SO valuable. He was a premier receiving tight end and a premier blocking tight end. Having him on the field was the ultimate queen on the chessboard. You could do anything with him there.
The Gronk/Hernandez duo was completely unfair, man. The up tempo stuff they ran in 2011 with those guys was insane, could go five wide or run the ball out of a tight formation without substituting.
 

BaseballJones

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The Gronk/Hernandez duo was completely unfair, man. The up tempo stuff they ran in 2011 with those guys was insane, could go five wide or run the ball out of a tight formation without substituting.
Yep. Gronk being hurt for that Super Bowl was a killer; otherwise, that offense was a juggernaut.
 

Mooch

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This is generally what I've heard other Miami fans say and I'd tend to believe it. I know as Pats fans we kind of want any player they sign, especially one who can be a playmaker like Gesicki on catches, to be able to do the other things but Miami's coaching is strong and clearly Tua and the team can support receivers producing really well. That Gesicki couldn't find a good role blocking or as a tertiary guy to Hill and Waddle seems to support all of this.

It's an interesting signing. On one hand, the Patriots desperately need guys who can stay on the field and make a contested catch. Devante Parker was/is a guy like that...if he's on the field. Gesicki feels like another one. The issue is, to tims point and yours...if Gesicki can't block and Henry is primarily a receiving TE, the "two TE and Rhamondre" plan doesn't really work. It really makes me wonder if there's another deal in the works that sends Henry out (which I'd be sad about) or if they're really committing to a wholesale offense change that move away from interior running, Rham and Beg For 5 YAC, etc. What worries me about this is that it's Mac Year 3 and it's his third different OC/OC Type in those three years, that's a recipe for disaster especially if BOB is going towards a wider, quicker offense as it seems like it may with the Robinson and Gesicki signings.
Shouldn’t Pats fans WANT a wider/quicker offense after what we’ve seen the past three seasons? This has been a bottom third unit since Brady left and the interior-running-first offense finds us at a huge disadvantage in this division.
 

Mooch

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Field Yates has bingo. Our red zone offense was the worst in the league last season. Gesicki instantly makes you better on that front.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Gesicki is a much better athlete but yeah a Gesicki/Henry duo isn’t quite a pair you can line up in any formation with. Predictability on offense has been an issue (at least last year it was), so I’d love to see them add a TE who can maul in the run game.
I agree, but the bigger issue is having no playmakers on the field. Gesicki gives them a dimension we were missing. Depending on the contract, I'm here for it.
 

BigSoxFan

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Gesicki is a good player. I have no idea what the plan or how he fits with Henry is but I'm fine with this, on the surface. JuJu, J-Rob, and Gesicki are all proven NFL talents so hard to really be upset with any of these moves. But, we clearly need something bigger to make a meaningful leap.
 

rodderick

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I agree, but the bigger issue is having no playmakers on the field. Gesicki gives them a dimension we were missing. Depending on the contract, I'm here for it.
That's the thing, I don't think they were missing that dimension. Hunter Henry was that dimension. To an extent so was Jakobi Meyers. Don't get me wrong, if it's third and goal from the 4 and you can put Gesicki out there with Henry, Schuster and Bourne out of shotgun, I think your redzone offense will improve, I just don't get why they are focusing on loading up on big body inside receivers with meh speed and agility. They are all good players, just very overlapping in what they can do for an offense in my mind.

After three years of teams talking about the Pats offense being easy to defend, I'm not sure these moves are meaningfully stressing opposing defenses. Now, add Jeudy to the equation and it'll be a different story.
 

BigSoxFan

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That's the thing, I don't think they were missing that dimension. Hunter Henry was that dimension. To an extent so was Jakobi Meyers. Don't get me wrong, if it's third and goal from the 4 and you can put Gesicki out there with Henry, Schuster and Bourne out of shotgun, I think your redzone offense will improve, I just don't get why they are focusing on loading up on big body inside receivers with meh speed and agility. They are all good players, just very overlapping in what they can do for an offense in my mind.

After three years of teams talking about the Pats offense being easy to defend, I'm not sure these moves are meaningfully stressing opposing defenses. Now, add Jeudy to the equation and it'll be a different story.
They need a big move or otherwise I don't see how we see much improvement. BoB instead of Patricia will surely help. You can get the OL to play better (although personnel right now is kind of an issue) but they're still missing that big piece who can draw coverage and make things easier for everyone else. If Jeudy isn't a possibility, I have no idea where that guy comes from.
 

IdiotKicker

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If they get Jeudy/Hopkins and draft an OT who can actually play, this is a potent offense with a deep receiving corps and good RBs. I was really pessimistic heading into last year, but sliding every receiver down a spot on the depth chart has a huge impact, and the RB room should be in good shape as well even with Harris departing. I know the division has gotten better as well, but I think there's something here.
 

Fishercat

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Shouldn’t Pats fans WANT a wider/quicker offense after what we’ve seen the past three seasons? This has been a bottom third unit since Brady left and the interior-running-first offense finds us at a huge disadvantage in this division.
I'd agree, and I'm certainly more optimistic for a BOB Offense than a Patricia offense, given the last couple results. I'm just concerned in terms of overall QB Development combined with the current roster talent - three different theories/structures in the first three seasons with a QB doesn't have the greatest track record and unless Mac really takes to this (and I'm more optimistic than most on Mac) it's going to be another reboot on a contract that is rapidly approaching it's "pay or let him go" spot.

With that said, Gesicki being able to pull contested balls in means that Hunter Henry isn't the only one and makes defenses respect different RZ threats. I think that should help a lot in those spots...it may just be tougher to get there.
 

rodderick

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If they get Jeudy/Hopkins and draft an OT who can actually play, this is a potent offense with a deep receiving corps and good RBs. I was really pessimistic heading into last year, but sliding every receiver down a spot on the depth chart has a huge impact, and the RB room should be in good shape as well even with Harris departing. I know the division has gotten better as well, but I think there's something here.
I don't even want Hopkins at this point, they need someone faster and more dynamic. Easily would rather pay more for Jeudy.
 

BaseballJones

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Jeudy has one more year left, right? I don't think Denver picked up his 5th year option, AFAIK. So it would require trading probably a 2nd round pick (maybe something else as well) and THEN extending Jeudy, which probably would be pretty expensive.

So that would be a very big move for the Pats to make. Worth it? I don't know. He's a good receiver, obviously. But he's not a burner. 4.46 time in the 40. That's not bad, obviously, but it's not exactly greased lightning either. The average 40 time for a WR at the combine is 4.48, so he's a tick faster than average, but not exactly Tyreek Hill or Tyquan Thornton in terms of raw speed. He is a good route runner though, and combined with pretty decent speed makes him tough to defend.
 

rodderick

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Jeudy has one more year left, right? I don't think Denver picked up his 5th year option, AFAIK. So it would require trading probably a 2nd round pick (maybe something else as well) and THEN extending Jeudy, which probably would be pretty expensive.

So that would be a very big move for the Pats to make. Worth it? I don't know. He's a good receiver, obviously. But he's not a burner. 4.46 time in the 40. That's not bad, obviously, but it's not exactly greased lightning either. The average 40 time for a WR at the combine is 4.48, so he's a tick faster than average, but not exactly Tyreek Hill or Tyquan Thornton in terms of raw speed. He is a good route runner though, and combined with pretty decent speed makes him tough to defend.
He's elite at beating man coverage and has averaged nearly 15 yards per catch in his career, dude plays fast. Top 10 in yards per target last year in a mess of an offense. Upside is huge.
 

Cellar-Door

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Jeudy has one more year left, right? I don't think Denver picked up his 5th year option, AFAIK. So it would require trading probably a 2nd round pick (maybe something else as well) and THEN extending Jeudy, which probably would be pretty expensive.

So that would be a very big move for the Pats to make. Worth it? I don't know. He's a good receiver, obviously. But he's not a burner. 4.46 time in the 40. That's not bad, obviously, but it's not exactly greased lightning either. The average 40 time for a WR at the combine is 4.48, so he's a tick faster than average, but not exactly Tyreek Hill or Tyquan Thornton in terms of raw speed. He is a good route runner though, and combined with pretty decent speed makes him tough to defend.
DEN or a team trading for him has until May 1 to pick up the option. Jeudy is interesting he has good tools but not WR 1 production despite playing that role in a good WR corps. Last year was his best which is good, but it wasn't top end and it came with Patrick out.