General NBA season thread: 24-25 edition

Euclis20

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I mean…Middleton matters like a lot. I don’t think Doc moves the needle either way with this personnel.
This Reddit thread - Doc Rivers coaching record with the Bucks: 18-21… Adrian Griffin coaching record with the Bucks 30-13 : r/NBATalk - says that Griffin had Giannis / Dame / Middleton for over 40 games while Doc has had the three of them for 6.

If true, that's probably the answer.
Probably some truth to this, but even when available (outside of the playoff series against Indy), Middleton hasn't looked like a difference maker since 2022. Over his last two years (88 games), Middleton has averaged just 15/5/5 with a .578 TS% and mediocre at best defense (from what I've seen). I can't believe that this version of Middleton is worth 20 wins over the course of a season, which has been the difference between Budenholzer/Griffin and Doc.

I don't think people in general are appreciating how much worse they've been because the Bucks rode their stellar 1st half of the season last year all the way into the playoffs, and injuries at the very end are a solid excuse for their quick playoff exit. What happens if this team is 24-28 at the all-star break? They're already paying 3 coaches this year.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Probably some truth to this, but even when available (outside of the playoff series against Indy), Middleton hasn't looked like a difference maker since 2022. Over his last two years (88 games), Middleton has averaged just 15/5/5 with a .578 TS% and mediocre at best defense (from what I've seen). I can't believe that this version of Middleton is worth 20 wins over the course of a season, which has been the difference between Budenholzer/Griffin and Doc.

I don't think people in general are appreciating how much worse they've been because the Bucks rode their stellar 1st half of the season last year all the way into the playoffs, and injuries at the very end are a solid excuse for their quick playoff exit. What happens if this team is 24-28 at the all-star break? They're already paying 3 coaches this year.
Middleton may not be a difference maker in the playoffs but he's way better than the dreck MIL is throwing on the floor without him. Reddit reminds me that MIL had a 121.5 ORtg under Griffin. They're not doing that without Middleton.

BTW, Reddit also suggests that Griffin had an easier schedule than Doc. I'm not looking it up.

But nevermind the Griffin/Doc comparison - maybe the real reason for MIL's success was Coach Bud and his schemes were tailor made to the personnel (at least during the regular season)? It will be interesting to see how PHO does in the post-season.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Probably some truth to this, but even when available (outside of the playoff series against Indy), Middleton hasn't looked like a difference maker since 2022. Over his last two years (88 games), Middleton has averaged just 15/5/5 with a .578 TS% and mediocre at best defense (from what I've seen). I can't believe that this version of Middleton is worth 20 wins over the course of a season, which has been the difference between Budenholzer/Griffin and Doc.

I don't think people in general are appreciating how much worse they've been because the Bucks rode their stellar 1st half of the season last year all the way into the playoffs, and injuries at the very end are a solid excuse for their quick playoff exit. What happens if this team is 24-28 at the all-star break? They're already paying 3 coaches this year.
Middleton was carrying them at times during the playoffs last year but I agree that this version over 82 games isn’t going to give you much. This was kinda my point on Doc not having a very key piece in him nor does he have Grayson Allen on the team any longer.
 

lovegtm

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Middleton was carrying them at times during the playoffs last year but I agree that this version over 82 games isn’t going to give you much. This was kinda my point on Doc not having a very key piece in him nor does he have Grayson Allen on the team any longer.
It's almost like Giannis is a pretty shitty GM.....
 

SteveF

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Through the first 3-4 games this season, the two point shooting foul drawn rate is 17.53%. Last season through the first 3-4 games it was 15.11%.
The three point shooting foul drawn rate is 1.06% this season, 0.76% over a similar time frame last season.
This season there are 2.75 non-shooting fouls per 100 possessions. Last season there were 2.17 non-shooting fouls per 100 possessions over a similar time frame.

I chose to limit the comparison to the first few games last year in part because of the mid season officiating change, but also because not-fouling on defense is a skill that tends to improve as players get back into the swing of playing.
 

InstaFace

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Milwaukee and Denver seem like they are headed on similar paths. They have all-time great players that are proven title winners--but the supporting cast is getting older and isn't there to make them real contenders. Both teams have really struggled to develop their own draft picks since they began contending, which has really hurt their ability to round out their supporting cast as the team gets more expensive and other players get older.
Meanwhile...



(we're so lucky)
 

lovegtm

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Milwaukee and Denver seem like they are headed on similar paths. They have all-time great players that are proven title winners--but the supporting cast is getting older and isn't there to make them real contenders. Both teams have really struggled to develop their own draft picks since they began contending, which has really hurt their ability to round out their supporting cast as the team gets more expensive and other players get older.
This is why I hate hate hated the Dame trade so much (or would have, were I a Bucks fan). They had an elite 2-way guard next to Giannis, plus a decent young wing in Allen. Their picks/swaps have a lot of value, because everyone is pricing in a chance of their being very bad in 4-5 years, and so they could have acquired some real complementary talent.

Instead, Milwaukee ended up with a 1-way guard, lost the wing depth, and had literally no draft capital left.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yeah, my big takeaway is less about Griffin vs Doc (because I think that was abotu mangaing the people side--where Griffin was bad and Doc, for all his tactical flaws, is reliable) than it is they really lost out when they fired Bud.

We'll probably never know how hard they pushed Giannis to accept Bud staying, and ultimately no coach is worth a player of Giannis' status. I hope for their sake they really tried to keep Bud and Giannis forced them not to, because while Bud probably isn't a top-5 coach he's a lot closer than anyone else they are likely to get
 

HomeRunBaker

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CBA guys here…..what does a Giannis to Miami deal look like or is it even doable using some basic rebuild assumptions of the Bucks wanting back some younger talents such as Herro, Jaquez and Jovic?

Sticking Rozier and Duncan Robinson outside the 3-pt line w Giannis, Playoff Jimmy and Bam could be troublesome.
 

Euclis20

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CBA guys here…..what does a Giannis to Miami deal look like or is it even doable using some basic rebuild assumptions of the Bucks wanting back some younger talents such as Herro, Jaquez and Jovic?

Sticking Rozier and Duncan Robinson outside the 3-pt line w Giannis, Playoff Jimmy and Bam could be troublesome.
Not a CBA guy, but the salaries are hard to line up (it basically has to be Herro and Robinson to get to Giannis' salary, then add in JJJ and Jovic for some value and a few fillers from the Bucks) and I just don't see the value being there. If Miami had some choice draft picks maybe that helps, but neither JJJ nor Jovic have enough ceiling to be enticing. I'll stick by the Thunder being the team that has the future assets and high ceiling young talent to make a Giannis deal (and if the Bucks fall on their faces late in the year and the Thunder don't advance deep into the playoffs, that's the deal to be had).

Jimmy/Bam/Giannis front line is interesting, especially in 2025. Those three are a combined 1-19 from behind the arc so far this season (Paris Bam popping 3s seems a long time ago). I'm not sure that even the splash brothers backcourt would provide enough spacing to make that lineup excel offensively, although at a glance that's easily the best defensive frontcourt in the league.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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CBA guys here…..what does a Giannis to Miami deal look like or is it even doable using some basic rebuild assumptions of the Bucks wanting back some younger talents such as Herro, Jaquez and Jovic?

Sticking Rozier and Duncan Robinson outside the 3-pt line w Giannis, Playoff Jimmy and Bam could be troublesome.
It would be tough. It's my understanding that MIA and MIL are both apron teams; if that's accurate, they can't take in more than they send out so a third team would need to be involved. The other issue is that Herro makes $29M and Robinson makes $19M but if Robinson isn't involved (who wants his contract?), MIA will struggle to get to the salary to come close to Giannis's $48+M. Plus there aren't a lot of extra roster spots around the league right now so sending out 4 for 1 during the season is really hard.

But the bigger problem is that MIA doesn't have any draft assets to trade. If MIA couldn't get Dame, I don't see how they get Giannis.
 

LA_33

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CBA guys here…..what does a Giannis to Miami deal look like or is it even doable using some basic rebuild assumptions of the Bucks wanting back some younger talents such as Herro, Jaquez and Jovic?

Sticking Rozier and Duncan Robinson outside the 3-pt line w Giannis, Playoff Jimmy and Bam could be troublesome.
It would be very hard, and is really only possible in the offseason, because right now, BOTH teams are over the 1st apron and limited to 1-to-1 salary matching, and the Bucks are over the 2nd apron so they can't aggregate salaries, so it could only work if Miami just happened to have a mix of contracts that added up to Giannis's exact salary, to the dollar (which unsurprisingly, they don't that I see).

Next offseason, Miami will still be over 1st apron, and Giannis's salary bumps to $54m, and Miami would need to send out 100% (or more) of that amount.

The model for a legal deal would be similar to what the Knicks had to do in the KAT trade, probably with at least one additional team beyond Bucks/Heat that receives pick value to take on salaries via space/an exception (that's a little easier now that the MLE can be used as a trade exception, but still makes things more complicated).

Milwaukee is technically $6m under the tax line for next year right now, so THEY could take back more than Gianni's $54m salary to make the deal work on Miami's side. But that's without a new contract for Brook Lopez, who even in a rebuilding situation, they at least might want to be able to S&T somewhere to get something back. So they're not going to hard-cap themselves at the 1st apron in a deal where they send Giannis out AND have to renounce Bird Rights to Lopez. (Even further complicating things, Portis and Connaughton both have player options, which I'd expect both to pick up, but they're low enough they might not, and they're also the only salaries above $3m on the roster, which they might need depending on how matching happens on Miami's side).

Herro, Jaquez, Jovic only total $39m next year, so Miami is still $15m short of matching, and the only realistic way to get there is to also include Duncan Robinson. But he makes $20m, so he might need to go to a 3rd team. Or if the Bucks take him, they would want to shed additional salary so they don't have to eat the $5m extra. They only realistic option there is Connaughton's $9m if he picks up that player option, so HE would need to go to a 3rd team, while the Bucks take the 4 Heat guys.

At that point, I'm not convinced that's enough return value for the Bucks, so they'd also want multiple picks. But Miami's 1sts are encumbered through 2028, so they can only send 2 outright, all in the 2029-2032 years, plus swaps I guess. Those far-future picks could be pretty valuable to the Bucks, but it's a LONG time to wait for much of the upside value of trading their franchise guy for three good young players who don't appear to have star-level upside.

Then there'd be second-order stuff for the Bucks, too, like having Dame at $54m+$58m player option on a rebuilding team. And what to do about Brook's free agency, with no other centers on the roster and already up against the tax line, again for a rebuilding team. They'd have a couple bigger expiring deals on Middleton, likely D.Robinson, etc. to give them flexibility. But it's a LOT, and would be very all be very complicated in agregate.

I think it's likely that the Bucks could find a different suitor who would offer just as much young player+pick value, but with a less complicated/more financially favorable deal structure. Giannis is still GOOD, even as he begins to show his age.
 

LA_33

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I guess it would be possible at the deadline, IF the Pistons were willing to use their $10m in remaining cap space to trade like, Paul Reed and Wendell Moore Jr. for Duncan Robinson (I forgot anyone still had open cap space, and that's just about the only way to off-load Robinson midseason while saving the other two teams enough to make the math work).

Then Bucks send a couple minimum guys to Heat in a separate deal for the picks they'd need in the Giannis trade anyway (to keep both rosters in compliance and get the Bucks under the 2nd apron). They take Reed along with Herro/Jovic/Jaquez in the main deal.

Miami get Giannis, Moore, a couple minimum guys from Bucks, and send every possible pick and swap they can muster to either the Bucks, or to the Pistons to pay them to take back Robinson for 2 years.

I don't think there's enough pick value in Miami to make that all happen, though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I guess it would be possible at the deadline, IF the Pistons were willing to use their $10m in remaining cap space to trade like, Paul Reed and Wendell Moore Jr. for Duncan Robinson (I forgot anyone still had open cap space, and that's just about the only way to off-load Robinson midseason while saving the other two teams enough to make the math work).

Then Bucks send a couple minimum guys to Heat in a separate deal for the picks they'd need in the Giannis trade anyway (to keep both rosters in compliance and get the Bucks under the 2nd apron). They take Reed along with Herro/Jovic/Jaquez in the main deal.

Miami get Giannis, Moore, a couple minimum guys from Bucks, and send every possible pick and swap they can muster to either the Bucks, or to the Pistons to pay them to take back Robinson for 2 years.

I don't think there's enough pick value in Miami to make that all happen, though.
Thanks to you and others for responding. Great stuff!
 

HomeRunBaker

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Bah, that sucks. Just as he was reaching full potential too. At least its only couple months.
That was one of the initial blurbs I got. The update is that he will be re-evaluated in 4-6 weeks. If surgery is necessary I think that would knock him out until around playoff time.
 

kfoss99

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HomeRunBaker

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This report says Ben Simmons won't be playing back-to-backs. How soon until the Nets just sit him for good? Some people are angry at him, but I find it to be scary. I don't know of a case of the yips like this in Basketball and it seems a bit more dangerous than the yips. The brain is a fantastic and fragile thing.

Ben Simmons Won't Play Back-to-Backs Indefinitely amid Injury, Nets HC Says | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report
I can never understand why the player is the one fans blame when a team makes a decision such as this.
 

InstaFace

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Importing from the gamethread about a Giannis trade to OKC:
The salary matching would be a little complicated from a player/agent politics perspective; it would basically have to be built around Hartenstein, who just singed as a FA, and doesn't really fit in MIL, so the optics are pretty bad to move him in a trade just months into his new contract. But this is freaking Giannis, I think they'd be OK with some bad agent-PR.

The player return wouldn't be great for MIL, but OKC could send SO many picks they might still be able to outbid everyone else.
Yeah, Hartenstein's declining contract ($30M this year) and Dort ($16.5) basically gets you there (Giannis = $48.8). OKC is $11M below the luxury tax threshold right now, so they can still do a lot of things, this year and also next year*.

If Milwaukee wants to blow things up come January-February, trading Giannis like this - given OKC's picks haul - really makes a lot of sense for both sides. That said, I expect Milwaukee will want to get one playoff run with a healthy Giannis and Dame, or at least a second crack at having one, before they give up on the combo.

Also if we're considering the negative PR of OKC signing and then trading Hartenstein, we also have to consider the negative PR for the Bucks trading Giannis after basically being the poster child for "the CBA rules and the supermax letting a small market team keep a major superstar around for a long time". He has a lot more value to Milwaukee than he does to anyone else, for marketing reasons alone. That's why I think the risk of this happening this season is in the 10-20% range - it's a real possibility, it wouldn't be shocking, but it's unlikely.

I think the Bucks trading Lillard for dimes on the dollar is likelier - his contract is clearly under water, but there will be some teams happy to get a player who will fill up the scoresheet on a losing team and let them meet their payroll minimums while having some good marketing. And they won't suffer the same as they would by trading Giannis. Giannis is signed for this year and 2 seasons beyond, with a player option for 2027-28. Even if he grumbles this year as you ship out his pick-and-roll partner, that's plenty of time for him to get persuaded by whatever Plan Next is.

* Chet and J-Dub are due big-money extensions that should take them well into the tax after next year though, unless they trade away one of their big pieces.
 

JCizzle

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Importing from the gamethread about a Giannis trade to OKC:

Yeah, Hartenstein's declining contract ($30M this year) and Dort ($16.5) basically gets you there (Giannis = $48.8). OKC is $11M below the luxury tax threshold right now, so they can still do a lot of things, this year and also next year*.

If Milwaukee wants to blow things up come January-February, trading Giannis like this - given OKC's picks haul - really makes a lot of sense for both sides. That said, I expect Milwaukee will want to get one playoff run with a healthy Giannis and Dame, or at least a second crack at having one, before they give up on the combo.

Also if we're considering the negative PR of OKC signing and then trading Hartenstein, we also have to consider the negative PR for the Bucks trading Giannis after basically being the poster child for "the CBA rules and the supermax letting a small market team keep a major superstar around for a long time". He has a lot more value to Milwaukee than he does to anyone else, for marketing reasons alone. That's why I think the risk of this happening this season is in the 10-20% range - it's a real possibility, it wouldn't be shocking, but it's unlikely.

I think the Bucks trading Lillard for dimes on the dollar is likelier - his contract is clearly under water, but there will be some teams happy to get a player who will fill up the scoresheet on a losing team and let them meet their payroll minimums while having some good marketing. And they won't suffer the same as they would by trading Giannis. Giannis is signed for this year and 2 seasons beyond, with a player option for 2027-28. Even if he grumbles this year as you ship out his pick-and-roll partner, that's plenty of time for him to get persuaded by whatever Plan Next is.

* Chet and J-Dub are due big-money extensions that should take them well into the tax after next year though, unless they trade away one of their big pieces.
I like the OKC thought way more than the Miami suggestion. A pupu platter of meh young players is something that OKC can also provide, but with the golden ticket Clippers picks and a million more other picks attached - unlike Miami.
 

Euclis20

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I don't think there would be any sort of negative PR around this.
Also, I think there is a near zero percent chance that MIL moves Giannis this season
Yes on both, OKC absolutely will not care if Hartenstein (career role player yet to play a game for OKC) is traded for Giannis (2x MVP still in his prime), and the Bucks would be foolish to move on from Giannis this season even if he demands out. Assuming he keeps playing the way he's started the year, he would net possibly the biggest haul of all time in the offseason, no need to rush to that (and of course, they should take every effort to convince him to stick around. He'd hardly be the first big star to ask for a trade then change their mind when other moves are made).
 

LA_33

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Importing from the gamethread about a Giannis trade to OKC:

Yeah, Hartenstein's declining contract ($30M this year) and Dort ($16.5) basically gets you there (Giannis = $48.8). OKC is $11M below the luxury tax threshold right now, so they can still do a lot of things, this year and also next year*.
OKC being below the tax line (or functionally, really below the 1st apron, which they're $16m under, and where they are already hard-capped anyway) allows them to use the least-restrictive trade matching.

So they could do it during this season with just Hartenstein and Aaron Wiggins ($10.5m). That only totals $40.5m, which still keeps OKC under the tax threshold, but also saves the Bucks enough that they'd drop below the 2nd apron, which would presumably matter to them if they're blowing things up.

If Milwaukee wants to blow things up come January-February, trading Giannis like this - given OKC's picks haul - really makes a lot of sense for both sides. That said, I expect Milwaukee will want to get one playoff run with a healthy Giannis and Dame, or at least a second crack at having one, before they give up on the combo.

Also if we're considering the negative PR of OKC signing and then trading Hartenstein, we also have to consider the negative PR for the Bucks trading Giannis after basically being the poster child for "the CBA rules and the supermax letting a small market team keep a major superstar around for a long time". He has a lot more value to Milwaukee than he does to anyone else, for marketing reasons alone. That's why I think the risk of this happening this season is in the 10-20% range - it's a real possibility, it wouldn't be shocking, but it's unlikely.

I think the Bucks trading Lillard for dimes on the dollar is likelier - his contract is clearly under water, but there will be some teams happy to get a player who will fill up the scoresheet on a losing team and let them meet their payroll minimums while having some good marketing. And they won't suffer the same as they would by trading Giannis. Giannis is signed for this year and 2 seasons beyond, with a player option for 2027-28. Even if he grumbles this year as you ship out his pick-and-roll partner, that's plenty of time for him to get persuaded by whatever Plan Next is.

* Chet and J-Dub are due big-money extensions that should take them well into the tax after next year though, unless they trade away one of their big pieces.
I agree that the Bucks aren't likely to do anything drastic before they give this star-grouping one more shot at the playoffs, and maybe they'll even have all three main guys available (4 if you want to include Lopez, but he seems the least injury prone at this point).

A Giannis-to-OKC deal, or really dealing him anywhere, gets harder after July 1, with Giannis's salary going up to $54m, and Hartenstein and Wiggins both declining, but those two are still only $5m short of matching, and they have lots of options in that range that would still save MIL some money, and OKC is currently $31m under the tax line for next year, with only Caruso being a FA, so they have room to add some money in a trade for a star.

But the Bucks still might not move Giannis, and could look to do something with their other core vets (Middleton or Lopez, in addition to Dame, although Brook is a FA after this year) to re-set around their franchise star instead, even with him starting to age.
 

InstaFace

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OKC being below the tax line (or functionally, really below the 1st apron, which they're $16m under, and where they are already hard-capped anyway) allows them to use the least-restrictive trade matching.

So they could do it during this season with just Hartenstein and Aaron Wiggins ($10.5m). That only totals $40.5m, which still keeps OKC under the tax threshold, but also saves the Bucks enough that they'd drop below the 2nd apron, which would presumably matter to them if they're blowing things up.



I agree that the Bucks aren't likely to do anything drastic before they give this star-grouping one more shot at the playoffs, and maybe they'll even have all three main guys available (4 if you want to include Lopez, but he seems the least injury prone at this point).

A Giannis-to-OKC deal, or really dealing him anywhere, gets harder after July 1, with Giannis's salary going up to $54m, and Hartenstein and Wiggins both declining, but those two are still only $5m short of matching, and they have lots of options in that range that would still save MIL some money, and OKC is currently $31m under the tax line for next year, with only Caruso being a FA, so they have room to add some money in a trade for a star.

But the Bucks still might not move Giannis, and could look to do something with their other core vets (Middleton or Lopez, in addition to Dame, although Brook is a FA after this year) to re-set around their franchise star instead, even with him starting to age.
I imagine, given the market size, that Presti's bosses care more about the luxury tax line (= receiving tax distributions rather than paying them) than about the aprons (= Presti's maneuvering room). Staying under $170.8M this year would be a real extender of their contention window, given that they don't have private-equity titans falling over each other trying to buy the OKC Thunder the way the Celtics do. Maybe they'll pay tax for a year or two (paying $61M in 2018 was probably some real pain for Clay Bennett), but if he can stay under this year and even next year before the extensions kick in, that's basically the definition of success for him at this point, I'd think. The tax distribution is binary (you either get a full share or you don't), so there are no prizes for how far under that threshold you stay. In 2023-24, non-taxpaying teams each received $11.8M, in 2022-23 each non-taxpaying team got $15.1M, so it's probably material to a budget / profit margins.

on the Milwaukee side, I agree that they'd probably prefer to move off their negative-value contracts rather than Giannis. But moving those will cost them value, rather than bringing in rebuilding value. I'm not sure the ROI is there to staple picks to Dame to send him out for a platter of expiring vet contracts, for example. So it's either take their medicine en-masse by trading Giannis and everything that isn't nailed down - and hope OKC's picks package is good enough - or stick it out tinkering around the edges, I think.
 

lovegtm

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It's wild that, only a year later, Milwaukee probably wouldn't be able to get positive value from Miami for a player it paid all its picks and Jrue for.

(Wild because that player didn't have any significant injuries.)
 

cheech13

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If Milwaukee traded Giannis to OKC and didn’t get back J-Will, Chet or both, they should fire everyone and sell the team.
 

LA_33

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Wait....where is Cleveland?
Hate, hate, hate, hate from Draymond on that one.

They HAVE to be top-4 in any realistic EC list, right? Super small sample this year, but they finished 4th last year despite Mitchell, Garland, Mobley playing 55, 57, and 50 games, none of their key guys are over 30, Mobley looks like he's taking the leap everyone has been expecting, and they have a little more depth now with Ty Jerome popping (he's shooting the lights out and averaging 11 ppg in less than 15 mp).
 

Tony C

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To my mind they're the 2nd best team in the EC after the Celts. Maybe the Knicks right there with them if they mesh, but in general I think the EC is being overrated on this Board. Elite Boston, 2 wannabes in Cleveland and NYK and then....teams with serious questions and bad teams.

Back to the Cavs: Atkinson was such a good hire -- couldn't understand so many teams passing on him these last few years.
 

LA_33

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To my mind they're the 2nd best team in the EC after the Celts. Maybe the Knicks right there with them if they mesh, but in general I think the EC is being overrated on this Board. Elite Boston, 2 wannabes in Cleveland and NYK and then....teams with serious questions and bad teams.

Back to the Cavs: Atkinson was such a good hire -- couldn't understand so many teams passing on him these last few years.
I would have put Orlando right up there in the Knicks/Cavs tier, but this Paulo injury is brutal.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Kind of a weird hoops injury, no? Sure there are examples but I can’t think of anyone else.
I can't find video of it. I saw some speculation of a play in the second quarter, but press release says it occurred in the fourth quarter
 

benhogan

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To my mind they're the 2nd best team in the EC after the Celts. Maybe the Knicks right there with them if they mesh, but in general I think the EC is being overrated on this Board. Elite Boston, 2 wannabes in Cleveland and NYK and then....teams with serious questions and bad teams.

Back to the Cavs: Atkinson was such a good hire -- couldn't understand so many teams passing on him these last few years.
Yea Kenny got a bunch of mutts in Brooklyn to the playoffs, DLo was the All-Star leader of that group o_O
 

Devizier

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The Bucks are not trading Giannis unless he absolutely presses them to.

And if he presses them for a trade, it is very unlikely to be to Oklahoma City (I'm guessing it might be some coastal team that will be losing an all-time great in the next few years).
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
9,700
Oakland
Giannis for Embiid WHO SAYS NO
You joke, but Milwaukee says no instantly. For all their flaws (and Giannis' outside shot has completely disappeared and it was always bad), Giannis is still averaging 30/12/6 and shooting a career high .678 from 2. I think there's a real chance Embiid comes back looking like Detroit Blake Griffin (WHEN he returns).
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,141
Hingham, MA
You joke, but Milwaukee says no instantly. For all their flaws (and Giannis' outside shot has completely disappeared and it was always bad), Giannis is still averaging 30/12/6 and shooting a career high .678 from 2. I think there's a real chance Embiid comes back looking like Detroit Blake Griffin (IF he returns).
Fixed
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
32,107
The Bucks are not trading Giannis unless he absolutely presses them to.

And if he presses them for a trade, it is very unlikely to be to Oklahoma City (I'm guessing it might be some coastal team that will be losing an all-time great in the next few years).
I mean I appreciate Harden as much as the next guy but all time great?