General NBA season thread: 24-25 edition

InstaFace

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Apparently the Spurs and Pacers are playing in Paris this coming week? Is this something new? I only saw it because of the ads on the Cs-Dubs game today.

I mean, makes sense when you can bring Wemby to town, but that's quite a flight. At least they're getting two games in.
 

the moops

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Apparently the Spurs and Pacers are playing in Paris this coming week? Is this something new? I only saw it because of the ads on the Cs-Dubs game today.

I mean, makes sense when you can bring Wemby to town, but that's quite a flight. At least they're getting two games in.
Brooklyn and Cleveland played a game in Paris last January. I think it will be a thing going forward. But yes, it is quite a flight
 

Euclis20

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View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1881854500849549532


Suns send out their 2031 unprotected 1st for 3 1st rounders from Utah, none of which are likely to be better low 20s. Nice move for Phoenix just to make it so that they have something to trade going forward. Doesn't solve their Beal problem, but at least they've got some assets now, favorable or not. For Utah, it breaks up a bunch of smaller (relatively low value) picks into one potentially very juicy one, albeit 6 years down the line.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Brooklyn and Cleveland played a game in Paris last January. I think it will be a thing going forward. But yes, it is quite a flight
Both teams had 3 days off following that game. Brooklyn entered that trip 16-21 then lost 5 of 6 upon returning but were competitive.....but Cleveland won their next 4 games by 18, 40, 21 and 27 so clearly the travel didn't bother them.
 

PedroKsBambino

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View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1881854500849549532


Suns send out their 2031 unprotected 1st for 3 1st rounders from Utah, none of which are likely to be better low 20s. Nice move for Phoenix just to make it so that they have something to trade going forward. Doesn't solve their Beal problem, but at least they've got some assets now, favorable or not. For Utah, it breaks up a bunch of smaller (relatively low value) picks into one potentially very juicy one, albeit 6 years down the line.
Sure feels like they are in 'buy' mode with that deal doesn't it? Those three first are good for two things, really, aren't they? Backfilling a capped-out roster and trading for guys in the next year or two who can help now.

I"ll give Phoenix this: they have found more ways to squeeze assets from what they have (at whatever usurious exchange rate is required) than I could have imagined.
 

Euclis20

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Sure feels like they are in 'buy' mode with that deal doesn't it? Those three first are good for two things, really, aren't they? Backfilling a capped-out roster and trading for guys in the next year or two who can help now.

I"ll give Phoenix this: they have found more ways to squeeze assets from what they have (at whatever usurious exchange rate is required) than I could have imagined.
I'm sorry that Beal has a no trade clause, if only because I'd love to see what else they can do.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Hollinger and Duncan talked through whether Booker and Durant might be available - which in theory makes sense, but feels totally inconsistent with anything we've seen from Ishbia.

They are a mess, that's for sure.
 

nattysez

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Hollinger and Duncan talked through whether Booker and Durant might be available - which in theory makes sense, but feels totally inconsistent with anything we've seen from Ishbia.

They are a mess, that's for sure.
Booker is 28. Unless Beal is stapled to him and you're getting a couple of juicy picks back, that's a really risky trade.

I'm fascinated by that picks trade.
 

lovegtm

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Booker is 28. Unless Beal is stapled to him and you're getting a couple of juicy picks back, that's a really risky trade.

I'm fascinated by that picks trade.
It makes a ton of sense for Utah, because they keep upside in each case, and had way too many picks anyway.

That Lakers 2031 could be a crown jewel unprotected pick, and those are insanely useful in moving the needle for a star trade.

I like it from Danny.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Booker is 28. Unless Beal is stapled to him and you're getting a couple of juicy picks back, that's a really risky trade.

I'm fascinated by that picks trade.
Yes---while I'm not quite as high on Booker as (say) Steve Kerr, he is definitely a foundational piece---perhaps able to be the second guy on a contender and surely be among the best third guys if not. And as you note, he's only 28 and is versatile on the court, so you can do a lot of things around him. I would think he's the guy you keep , frankly....and in their case (capped-out, no assets, two of three best players are older) I am not sure any set of moves makes more sense than hoping you get a lucky playoff run, personally.
 

Euclis20

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I dont understand why Milwaukee or Miami would do that deal
Yeah Bradley Beal is just a massive poison pill in that somebody needs to want him AND he needs to want to go there. Considering the type of player he is (below average at best defensively, decent but not great offensively), his contract (5th highest paid player in the league this year and top 10 in 2026 and 2027), his age and injury history, I don't see why any contender would want him. He doesn't make any sense on Milwaukee, a team already desperate for perimeter defenders.
 

Havlicheck

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It makes a ton of sense for Utah, because they keep upside in each case, and had way too many picks anyway.

That Lakers 2031 could be a crown jewel unprotected pick, and those are insanely useful in moving the needle for a star trade.

I like it from Danny.
The other thing the trade does for Phoenix is that it frees up their other number 1’s in years subsequent to 2025 that had been frozen from being traded by their previous deals for Beal and Durant
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yeah Bradley Beal is just a massive poison pill in that somebody needs to want him AND he needs to want to go there. Considering the type of player he is (below average at best defensively, decent but not great offensively), his contract (5th highest paid player in the league this year and top 10 in 2026 and 2027), his age and injury history, I don't see why any contender would want him. He doesn't make any sense on Milwaukee, a team already desperate for perimeter defenders.
I don't think I'd do it as Milwaukee, but the reason they might is they probably know Middleton is physically done. So while I agree with all of the above, Beal is still better this year than Middleton is likely to be (in part becasue he's a lot more likely to play most of the minutes). Middleton is a half-time guy at this point, and not necessarily as good a defender as Beal anymore. At least you can hope Beal can put 23/5/5 playing off Giannis and Lillard....

For Miami, the only benefit I see is their "player option for overpaid guy" risk reduces from $50 mil for Jimmy to $34 mil for Middleton. But I'd still rather have Butler, and he also seems more likely to walk away or have some trade value in the summer.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Seeing reports that TOR might be 4th team and if so, Bruce Brown might be going to MIA, which makes a lot more sense from MIA’s POV.

Reports also suggesting that Beal is willing to waive NTC to go to MIL.

Lots of smoke.
 

lovegtm

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The other thing the trade does for Phoenix is that it frees up their other number 1’s in years subsequent to 2025 that had been frozen from being traded by their previous deals for Beal and Durant
That's a really good point -- unlocks those juicier picks (although not that juicy, since they did a lot of swaps).
 

LA_33

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The other thing the trade does for Phoenix is that it frees up their other number 1’s in years subsequent to 2025 that had been frozen from being traded by their previous deals for Beal and Durant
That’s nominally true, but all of THOSE picks are also swapped, generally multiple times. So the actual pick-rights that Phoenix holds are still hilariously complicated, and likely terrible, even though they now have a pick every year from 25 to 30.

- In 25, they have worst of Cavs, Wolves, or Jazz
- In 26 they have worst of their own, Washington, Orlando, or Memphis
- In 27, they have worst of Cavs, Wolves, or Jazz
- In 28 they have worst of their own, Brooklyn, New York or Washington
- In 29 they have worst of Cavs/Wolves/Jazz
- In 30 they have worst of their own, Washington or Memphis
- 31 is now owed unprotected to Utah

So they can trade any combo of every other year from that 25-30 group, but they will ALL likely be mid-late 20s, with all the upside already swallowed by multiple swaps.
 

LA_33

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How do all these cap maneuvers work? Bucks can't aggregate, and Beal makes 19 million more than Middletone
Bucks need to send out Connaughton and Portis, too, which is why they need a 4th team, to take one/both of those guys.

Even if they’re also getting a (weak) 1st, I don’t think I’d do that for Beal, if I were the Bucks (also gets them below 2nd apron, which is a nominal financial/future flexibility positive on its own, but still bad, IMO).

I also don’t really understand Miami potentially taking Middleton, who will definitely cost $34m next year, while Jimmy might actually opt out. But I guess they just want to be done with Butler, and Kris is a positional fit, I guess, in Jimmy’s place.
 

radsoxfan

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Bucks need to send out Connaughton and Portis, too, which is why they need a 4th team, to take one/both of those guys.

Even if they’re also getting a (weak) 1st, I don’t think I’d do that for Beal, if I were the Bucks (also gets them below 2nd apron, which is a nominal financial/future flexibility positive on its own, but still bad, IMO).

I also don’t really understand Miami potentially taking Middleton, who will definitely cost $34m next year, while Jimmy might actually opt out. But I guess they just want to be done with Butler, and Kris is a positional fit, I guess, in Jimmy’s place.
DARKO thinks all 3 are clearly in the decline phase. Butler is still clearly the best, but also the oldest. Honestly feels like rearranging the deck chairs for all 3 teams more than anything. Middleton and Beal both look toast or nearly toast to me.

The team that "wins" the trade is probably the one who improves financial flexibility and gets assets, not the one who improves in the 2024-2025 season. Aside from a small % chance Beal to Butler makes the Suns a contender, the trade probably won't matter much.


JB-KM-BB.png
 

benhogan

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Beal + picks have to be going to a tanker, no one in their right mind wants Beal this season and certainly not the next 2 seasons on that contract.
 

DavidTai

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Beal + picks have to be going to a tanker, no one in their right mind wants Beal this season and certainly not the next 2 seasons on that contract.
The Bucks certainly aren't in their right minds, at least... but Beal would NOT be likely to waive his NTC to go to a tanker.

So if the Bucks think he's a better fit for them this year than Middleton...

It just seems ridiculous because a Beal-Lilliard backcourt is gonna get eaten alive by the Celtics, at the very least, and we should hope that's who we face instead of the Magic...
 

Euclis20

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I don't think I'd do it as Milwaukee, but the reason they might is they probably know Middleton is physically done. So while I agree with all of the above, Beal is still better this year than Middleton is likely to be (in part becasue he's a lot more likely to play most of the minutes). Middleton is a half-time guy at this point, and not necessarily as good a defender as Beal anymore. At least you can hope Beal can put 23/5/5 playing off Giannis and Lillard....

For Miami, the only benefit I see is their "player option for overpaid guy" risk reduces from $50 mil for Jimmy to $34 mil for Middleton. But I'd still rather have Butler, and he also seems more likely to walk away or have some trade value in the summer.
Seeing as how Beal is averaging 17/4/3 playing off Durant/Booker, I think 23/5/5 is far too much to hope for. He's probably a better player in a vacuum than Middleton, but he's just an awful fit next to Lillard defensively and at least with Middleton, you can squint and see a championship ceiling.
 

benhogan

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The Bucks certainly aren't in their right minds, at least... but Beal would NOT be likely to waive his NTC to go to a tanker.

So if the Bucks think he's a better fit for them this year than Middleton...

It just seems ridiculous because a Beal-Lilliard backcourt is gonna get eaten alive by the Celtics, at the very least, and we should hope that's who we face instead of the Magic...
Adding BB would just destroy any chance of Milwaukee being a serious contender next year & the year after, putting a wrap on Giannis prime seasons.

I could see Bucks' easy schedule/record improvement thinking GFIN.

Is Brad Beal the most overpaid player in NBA history?
$430M in career earnings by the end of this contract.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Seeing as how Beal is averaging 17/4/3 playing off Durant/Booker, I think 23/5/5 is far too much to hope for. He's probably a better player in a vacuum than Middleton, but he's just an awful fit next to Lillard defensively and at least with Middleton, you can squint and see a championship ceiling.
I wouldn't do the deal---I"m not much of a fan of Beal, and I don't especially like the fit anyway. But I do think it's more realistic to hope Beal plays better in a more coherent system than it is that Middleton magically gets healthy That's why you might consider it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I dont understand why Milwaukee or Miami would do that deal
I don’t understand why Beal would waive his no-trade…..to spend the winter in Wisconsin. Probably a nothingburger from that perspective but I’ll remain convinced from a month ago that Butler in Phoenix is where this ultimately leads if he is out in Miami.
 

LA_33

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I don’t understand why Beal would waive his no-trade…..to spend the winter in Wisconsin. Probably a nothingburger from that perspective but I’ll remain convinced from a month ago that Butler in Phoenix is where this ultimately leads if he is out in Miami.
Do you think Miami ultimately accepts Beal?

I can't see Riley doing that, and the only teams there have been any rumors whatsoever about having interest in Beal are the Bucks and maybe Pistons (both cold Upper Midwest cities he presumably wouldn't be thrilled about, although I think a player like Beal probably looks very positively on a team situation like the Bucks, playing with stars like Giannis and Dame, even if we question the defensive fit).

It's been put out there recently that when WAS was shopping Beal, he had indicated that he'd waive his no-trade to go to Phoenix, Miami, or the California teams, all warm weather winter locations. But none of those teams seem interested now, and only Miami or Sacto even have a realistic path to trading for his contract. So if he's willing to move now, it's almost certainly going to be somewhere else, that we'll be able to find reasons he wouldn't accept the deal, either because of geography or the team situation.
 

snowmanny

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Adding BB would just destroy any chance of Milwaukee being a serious contender next year & the year after, putting a wrap on Giannis prime seasons.

I could see Bucks' easy schedule/record improvement thinking GFIN.
I don’t really get Beal from a Bucks perspective. The Bucks sit fourth in the East. They aren’t as good as the top three but they have a great player and you can’t say they have NO chance to win the Conference. They are essentially in the same general space as the Nuggets, who sit fourth in the West.

Is Beal the best player they can get to do to GFIN? And if they fuck things up by getting him and their future looks bleaker don’t they risk Giannis wanting out (and shouldn’t keeping that from happening be their top priority every day)?

I may be missing something here.
 

The Social Chair

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All star voting update:

View: https://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1879951862507667809


He'll make the ASG regardless, but I think this is the last time for a LONG time Wemby doesn't start. Other than Lamelo the fans are doing a pretty good job (Mitchell is locking in that 2nd starting guard spot, good), and I can't even really fault them for that one because I'm not sure there's another player in the league better suited for ASG play than Lamelo Ball.
This really puts a dent in the 'Anthony Edwards super popular', next Kobe, narrative that NBA media pushes.
 

LA_33

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I don’t really get Beal from a Bucks perspective. The Bucks sit fourth in the East. They aren’t as good as the top three but they have a great player and you can’t say they have NO chance to win the Conference. They are essentially in the same general space as the Nuggets, who sit fourth in the West.

Is Beal the best player they can get to do to GFIN? And if they fuck things up by getting him and their future looks bleaker don’t they risk Giannis wanting out (and shouldn’t keeping that from happening be their top priority every day)?

I may be missing something here.
This is mostly Devil's Advocate reasoning, because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it if I were Milwaukee.

That said, in some ways, Beal might be the best player they can get, given what they have to offer, and their current roster/payroll situation:
  • All of their available contracts probably run for two years, although if they're including Portis, and the receiving team actually likes him at $13m for next season, there's a chance he opts out. Middleton heads up that group, and he looks completely cooked physically, and is owed $34m next season.
  • They can't trade a 1st until 2031, and doing that at this point, with a rapidly aging core, seems like a terrible idea.
  • They're currently $6.5m over the 2nd apron, so will begin to having far-future picks trade frozen anyway, and probably more importantly from their ownership perspective, if they can't bring the payroll down, will rack up repeater tax in the near future (I tend to cynically think that the pick-freeze issue is secondary, and teams mostly want to avoid the incredibly punitive repeater tax rates at all costs, if they're not top contenders).
If a Beal trade is structured something like I assume (sending out Middleton, Portis, Connaughton, and one small salary, likely Beauchamp) they'd be able to:
  • Upgrade Middleton's offense (and availability, even if Beal also misses a lot of games) with a guy who remains a legit shooter and secondary playmaker, even if he's even more of a challenge defensively. They've gotten good production out of Trent Jr. and AJ Green off the bench, and they're both even worse defensively than Beal.
  • Better cover for playing a non-spacer like Andre Jackson more minutes at the 3 (and sometimes smallball4) and maybe also Delon Wright as non-scorer behind Dame at point. All of their other perimeter guys at that point would be real shooters (Dame, Beal, Green, Trent, Prince).
  • The Beal trade is only possible if they complete the deal under the 2nd apron (which my proposed structure does, just barely), so it means they're saving money, and increasing future roster and payroll flexibility.
  • In the future, Beal rather than Middleton/Portis/Pat still lowers the payroll next year, and keeps a 3rd useful, albeit older, wing next to Giannis and Dame rather than a further-declining Middleton.
  • They can almost certainly do all of without giving up any picks (that they don't have anyway) which is the big barrier to getting anyone better than Beal, and they might even receive a (low) 1st from Phoenix for being the potentially-Beal-acceptable destination who are actually willing to take him, facilitating another move in the near future.

Big picture, Giannis is "only" 30, but he appears to be starting to break down more often, and I'm not sure they'll even want him beyond the next 2-3 years. He also has a player-option in the 2027 offseason (for 27-28), so if they decide to re-set, they'd need to trade him no later than that, and maybe 6-12 months sooner.
  • Dame is 3 years older than Beal, and will be 36 by the time he comes of the books in 2027. Beal extends the Middleton salary slot to the same offseason.
  • So maybe the thinking is: "Who is the best player we can get for Middleton, without sending out any picks in the trade, who lets us reduce payroll the next two years, and isn't signed longer than Dame and Giannis's opt-out in 2027?" I think there's a pretty good chance that Beal really IS the best player who meets all of that.
  • Which means they stay old and talent-concentrated for this year and next year, and at that point, they make a decision about whether they can do anything else in the short-term to build around an now-aging Giannis, or if they want to trade HIM in 2026, to still recoup a huge pick return to replace the 1sts they're out through 2029. Dame and Beal are both expiring, and one year later they have a clean roster and cap sheet to start over.
  • Or, if they want to ride one more year beyond that, they could wait until the 2027 deadline to make the Giannis decision, at which point Dame and Beal both float away in the immediately following off-season.
None of that is high upside, by any means. But it might be a realistic outlook on an already-old roster, who need to do whatever they can in the next two years to try and win, without any draft assets to improve, and currently over the 2nd apron this year. Then they'll really need to make a decision on Giannis, regardless.
 

benhogan

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This is mostly Devil's Advocate reasoning, because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it if I were Milwaukee.

That said, in some ways, Beal might be the best player they can get, given what they have to offer, and their current roster/payroll situation:
  • All of their available contracts probably run for two years, although if they're including Portis, and the receiving team actually likes him at $13m for next season, there's a chance he opts out. Middleton heads up that group, and he looks completely cooked physically, and is owed $34m next season.
  • They can't trade a 1st until 2031, and doing that at this point, with a rapidly aging core, seems like a terrible idea.
  • They're currently $6.5m over the 2nd apron, so will begin to having far-future picks trade frozen anyway, and probably more importantly from their ownership perspective, if they can't bring the payroll down, will rack up repeater tax in the near future (I tend to cynically think that the pick-freeze issue is secondary, and teams mostly want to avoid the incredibly punitive repeater tax rates at all costs, if they're not top contenders).
If a Beal trade is structured something like I assume (sending out Middleton, Portis, Connaughton, and one small salary, likely Beauchamp) they'd be able to:
  • Upgrade Middleton's offense (and availability, even if Beal also misses a lot of games) with a guy who remains a legit shooter and secondary playmaker, even if he's even more of a challenge defensively. They've gotten good production out of Trent Jr. and AJ Green off the bench, and they're both even worse defensively than Beal.
  • Better cover for playing a non-spacer like Andre Jackson more minutes at the 3 (and sometimes smallball4) and maybe also Delon Wright as non-scorer behind Dame at point. All of their other perimeter guys at that point would be real shooters (Dame, Beal, Green, Trent, Prince).
  • The Beal trade is only possible if they complete the deal under the 2nd apron (which my proposed structure does, just barely), so it means they're saving money, and increasing future roster and payroll flexibility.
  • In the future, Beal rather than Middleton/Portis/Pat still lowers the payroll next year, and keeps a 3rd useful, albeit older, wing next to Giannis and Dame rather than a further-declining Middleton.
  • They can almost certainly do all of without giving up any picks (that they don't have anyway) which is the big barrier to getting anyone better than Beal, and they might even receive a (low) 1st from Phoenix for being the potentially-Beal-acceptable destination who are actually willing to take him, facilitating another move in the near future.

Big picture, Giannis is "only" 30, but he appears to be starting to break down more often, and I'm not sure they'll even want him beyond the next 2-3 years. He also has a player-option in the 2027 offseason (for 27-28), so if they decide to re-set, they'd need to trade him no later than that, and maybe 6-12 months sooner.
  • Dame is 3 years older than Beal, and will be 36 by the time he comes of the books in 2027. Beal extends the Middleton salary slot to the same offseason.
  • So maybe the thinking is: "Who is the best player we can get for Middleton, without sending out any picks in the trade, who lets us reduce payroll the next two years, and isn't signed longer than Dame and Giannis's opt-out in 2027?" I think there's a pretty good chance that Beal really IS the best player who meets all of that.
  • Which means they stay old and talent-concentrated for this year and next year, and at that point, they make a decision about whether they can do anything else in the short-term to build around an now-aging Giannis, or if they want to trade HIM in 2026, to still recoup a huge pick return to replace the 1sts they're out through 2029. Dame and Beal are both expiring, and one year later they have a clean roster and cap sheet to start over.
  • Or, if they want to ride one more year beyond that, they could wait until the 2027 deadline to make the Giannis decision, at which point Dame and Beal both float away in the immediately following off-season.
None of that is high upside, by any means. But it might be a realistic outlook on an already-old roster, who need to do whatever they can in the next two years to try and win, without any draft assets to improve, and currently over the 2nd apron this year. Then they'll really need to make a decision on Giannis, regardless.
Good post. All fair points.

Would love to see Milwaukee continue to pile up older players on bad contracts & join the Panic-style Build that PHX popularized last season and Philadelphia perfected this summer.

At this point, I'm not sure Brad Beal is any better than Payton Pritchard or Malik Beasley. BUT maybe he makes rooting for a .500 team more fun?
 

benhogan

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Ahh I thought you were projecting him to the Bucks. Apologies :)
No worries...He was good early in his career, played decent D and the Wiz were winning. Somewhere along the line he stopped being an elite 3pt shooter, a non-defender, & an empty calories pointZ getter.

Not a fan of Brad's game (but he seems like a super nice guy)
 

Tony C

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Love @LA_33 post on reasoning for the Bucks to acquire Beal, which I think is convincing. John Hollinger made a similar case, but I'm only here to compliment his writing, which I find remarkably refreshing for a sports writer. I thought his line on the Suns that "they’re Stepien even deeper into the abyss in the long term..." was kitschy but cute and made me smile. And thought "the Suns broke a dollar bill into three quarters to improve their immediate trade flexibility..." was a good metaphor.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6079964/2025/01/22/jimmy-butler-trade-rumors-suns-mat-ishbia/
 

Swedgin

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Love @LA_33 post on reasoning for the Bucks to acquire Beal, which I think is convincing. John Hollinger made a similar case, but I'm only here to compliment his writing, which I find remarkably refreshing for a sports writer. I thought his line on the Suns that "they’re Stepien even deeper into the abyss in the long term..." was kitschy but cute and made me smile. And thought "the Suns broke a dollar bill into three quarters to improve their immediate trade flexibility..." was a good metaphor.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6079964/2025/01/22/jimmy-butler-trade-rumors-suns-mat-ishbia/
I particularly loved his assessment of the Suns' long term future: “Basically, the fields have been salted through 2031. All that’s left to do now is starve.”
 

lovegtm

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I particularly loved his assessment of the Suns' long term future: “Basically, the fields have been salted through 2031. All that’s left to do now is starve.”
It's funny/interesting/instructive to look back at the Durant trade, and how many people were like "you gotta do it; it's Kevin Durant."

Durant has been good for Phoenix, and it was still an awful trade that has put the franchise in purgatory with no way out.

Anything can be a bad deal if it's priced high enough, even Kevin Durant.
 

Havlicheck

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It's funny/interesting/instructive to look back at the Durant trade, and how many people were like "you gotta do it; it's Kevin Durant."

Durant has been good for Phoenix, and it was still an awful trade that has put the franchise in purgatory with no way out.

Anything can be a bad deal if it's priced high enough, even Kevin Durant.
Ishbia not exactly a sympathetic string puller finds out money doesn’t fix everything. Suns fans loved Bridges and Cam Johnson
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
14,745
SF
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1882187728395313455


By the time they are done burning this thing down, I wonder if there are any good feelings at all from the Jimmy Butler era in Miami. I get that Jimmy pulled similar shit in Chicago and Minnesota, but all of his career accomplishments are in Miami. This is a bit surreal, by all parties.
Time heals all wounds, and Ray Allen ends up back at Celtics' stuff.

These wounds are going to require some serious time, however.
 

Euclis20

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Aug 3, 2004
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Oakland
Time heals all wounds, and Ray Allen ends up back at Celtics' stuff.

These wounds are going to require some serious time, however.
Fair point, but I don't believe we'd see all that much of Ray if the Celtics hadn't won the title in 2008 (and I don't remember the team suspending him multiple times for being a petulant asshole). Jimmy is going to the HOF, largely on the strength of his play in Miami. I can't think of a great comp.