OK, great game I’m watching but 40 years from now does Generation AIZ3 joke about how in the old days teams wore Truck Stop logos on their Uni’s?
/
/
General NBA season thread: 24-25 edition
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
- Start date
Probably not because by that point the whole focus of the uniform will be an ad like European soccer
The NBA is better with Russell Westbrook in it. I'm glad he can still find a role even if he can't shoot.
View: https://twitter.com/joeylinn_/status/1877216256853528709
View: https://twitter.com/joeylinn_/status/1877216256853528709
Yeah I've always had a soft spot for Westbrook because he seemed like a good guy with incredible physical gifts (and often a ten-cent head) who has always gotten an unfair amount of crap for not being something other than what he is. He's never going to be a great passer and he's always going to make some mistakes other players wouldn't, but he's also always going to bring incredible athleticism and hustle and energy and I just can't but respect a guy who gives 100%.
He played a hell of a game against us on Tuesday and frankly, since we won in the end, I was happy to see it. Stuff it in the haters' face a little.
He played a hell of a game against us on Tuesday and frankly, since we won in the end, I was happy to see it. Stuff it in the haters' face a little.
This is hilarious but Jimmy seems like a nightmare to have on a team if you are any sort of authority figure
Definitely, but I kind of like him, especially after the Netflix series.
Just a kind of eccentric dude who does his thing in life, but is also really competitive and talented.
Not the most reliable archetype for a basketball organization to employ!
One of the highlighted reels on my Instagram was a video of Michael Carter Williams on Thanasis’s podcast.
He was talking about how toxic the Bulls team was that had Wade, Rondo and Jimmy on it (coached by Fred Hoiberg).
I guess it was known Butler disliked Hoiberg so early in the season Hoiberg called a team meeting and said something along the lines of “Jimmy, I want us to get along, let me know what I can work on”
and Butler goes “Well, I think you’re really fucking soft!”
It then devolved into them saying fuck you back and forth.
Is there a universe where RWB learned to shoot and is talked about in the same terms as MJ and LBJ?
Yeah probably not.
Learned to shoot, and also learned to read the game at a very high level and could pass and see the floor superbly. Then, maybe. But then we're talking about an entirely different brain, inside that same "every stat rolled a 100" body. Like he's not just one tweak away, y'know? Whereas you could really dream about "Kawhi minus injuries", or, say, "Giannis with better passing and FT technique".
Where has this "Westbrook can't pass" thing come from? He may not see the floor like the elite of the elite but he is # 9 all time in assists and # 14 in per game
I think it’s a tribute to the strength of childhood memories that my mind flashed to Spider-Man’s girlfriend and the 36th president of the United States before realizing that I was following a NBA related discussion.
And yeah, definitely not.
Yeah he's not quite as good his assist numbers suggest (a good chunk of his assists were simply a result of him dominating the ball), but passing ability was never really an area that held him back from greatness. He was never a good shooter and for whatever reason his FT% fell off a cliff after his MVP season (.823 from the line from 2009-2017, .689 from the line since then and still trending down), which was basically the end of him being an elite player. His DARKO chart has as steep a drop from the top as you'll ever see:
Yup. Darko gives him a higher peak than either Durant or Harden, though they obviously had far longer stretches as elite players. It's somewhat sad that he's spent almost his entire career either as Durant's #2 or as a quickly declining all-star, the list of contemporaries with higher peaks is incredibly small (Lebron, Curry, Paul, Giannis, Jokic, Duncan).
As a long-time SoSHer, my mind immediately translates RWB as "Russ Widdlebrooks".
I do think that peak is a bit of a statistical fluke - in that, while he was a very impactful guy, I do not believe he was ever a championship-level alpha. His game just is too specific if that makes sense? He never was able to shoot, he was ball-dominant, and he was a bit of an effort guy where you lose some of the impact when everyone else is going full-out too.
He is a spectacular floor-raiser, and I would argue underrated overall. We laugh at later-career Westbrook, and his awful tenure in LA, and the impact in today's game of his bad 3pt. But overall, he was a very impactful guy for a bunch of years, too. But he also isn't (peak-value wise) Kevin Durant, imo, regardless of the stats/analytics.
He is a spectacular floor-raiser, and I would argue underrated overall. We laugh at later-career Westbrook, and his awful tenure in LA, and the impact in today's game of his bad 3pt. But overall, he was a very impactful guy for a bunch of years, too. But he also isn't (peak-value wise) Kevin Durant, imo, regardless of the stats/analytics.
I wonder how many of the best scorers on title teams you could replace with Peak Russ and be a Tier 1 title contender?
Definitely the 2017-19 Warriors, probably the Raptors, mayyybbe the Lakers and 2024 Celtics?
There's some teams that it doesn't work for, but usually title teams have enough talent that you can make someone that good work.
I am unmoved by counting stats or even per-game stats, and more moved by his career 16.1% Turnover rate (compare: Chris Paul 13.4%, Derrick White 11.2%, Steph Curry 13.7%, Isaiah Thomas 12.8%, Payton Pritchard 9.7%, Nikola Jokic 14.7%, Jalen Brunson 10.1%, just to take the first names I felt like looking up). As well as anecdotally seeing the frequency with which he makes boneheaded decisions with the ball, some of which become turnovers and some of which merely result in his team losing a momentary advantage or missing an opportunity, neither of which show up directly in stats. His inability to shoot well is widely documented and easily proven. IMO, he also has a severe lack of floor-reading and BBIQ (like, "league-average or worse", nevermind elite), which is much harder to document and prove*, but no less real.
Westbrook being someone who's better at finishing plays than initiating them, though, I do see some MJ in his perimeter drives and agility around the rim.
*
And yes I know cherry-picked lowlights don't prove a damn thing, but man, sometimes do they suggest it strongly
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnDbheQAZBQ
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRr4SDIo4Uo
(there's a 15-minute supercut, too)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxgeQ9mM7AY
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXtXXWpI1BU
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnDbheQAZBQ
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRr4SDIo4Uo
(there's a 15-minute supercut, too)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxgeQ9mM7AY
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXtXXWpI1BU
Last edited:
I assume that means for tonight's game in Philly, and not for Sunday's game in Boston.
Would be a shame to miss Zion, Jaylen Brown successfully D'ing him up was one of the more impressive things I've ever seen.
Unless they get Cooper Flagg (or similar), which means that the season will be worth it.
WTH Pelicans? He made it on time for the 7 games he’s played this season as well as the 191 games he’s played in over his 6 year career.
191 GP over 6 seasons wouldn’t be too bad if he was still playing for Duke.
191 GP over 6 seasons wouldn’t be too bad if he was still playing for Duke.
They are doing a great job of publicly laying the groundwork for cutting him loose. Dont hide any of this if that's the intention.
His reputation is now fully that he's lazy, fat, unprofessional, and (online nba/reddit) probably has a porn addiction.
It's like they said "oh that reverse windmill was nice well here you go. Don't forget about this".
His reputation is now fully that he's lazy, fat, unprofessional, and (online nba/reddit) probably has a porn addiction.
It's like they said "oh that reverse windmill was nice well here you go. Don't forget about this".
But doesn’t doing that decrease his trade value? Or do you feel that his trade value can’t get any worse and now the job is to prepare the fan base for his eventual departure?
I think its the latter - Zion has been widely rumoured to be available this season with teams like GS linked to him.
Everyone who sees his ability and potential also knows about his availability and conditioning - my guess is that he is perceived as negative value at his contract level but maybe we will be surprised by someone who is willing to bet on him figuring it out.
Everyone who sees his ability and potential also knows about his availability and conditioning - my guess is that he is perceived as negative value at his contract level but maybe we will be surprised by someone who is willing to bet on him figuring it out.
Apparently, he was late to team activities and meetings multiple times this season. Pelicans Issue Statement on Zion Williamson After Suspension - Athlon Sports
Actually, Zion has one of the best contracts in the NBA since he failed the games played clause in 2022-23/2023-24 so according to MacMahon and Marks, the rest of his contract is currently (mostly) non-guaranteed.
New Orleans paid Williamson as a franchise player but included language that protected the franchise if Williamson missed more than 22 games in the 2022-23 or 2023-24 season. He missed 53 in 2022-23, meaning Williamson's salaries in the remaining three seasons ($38.9 million in 2025-26, $41.5 million in 2026-27 and $44.2 million in 2027-28) are non-guaranteed.
There are clauses in the contract that provide that a certain portion of his contract becomes guaranteed if he hits his weight restrictions and certain games played benchmarks and then the remainder becomes guaranteed if he is on the roster the preceding July 15. So for example, if he hit his weight restriction and then played in 41 games, his 2025-26 contract would be 60% guaranteed and if he's on the roster on July 15, 2025, the rest of the 2025-26 contract is guaranteed but the 2026-27 and 2027-28 still remains unguaranteed until he meets the benchmarks again.
What's next for Zion Williamson? The 'hardest question in the NBA' - ESPN
That a great pull. Thank you.
But I still don't think that changes how far teams will go to acquire him. He can still trigger those guarantees so its a risk.
On the flip side, if he doesn't play they can cut him of course but who is going to give up a haul for that sort of exposure - plays enough for a stretch to trigger the guarantee but maybe not enough to win or he doesn't play at all.
If he gets moved the package will be very interesting.
100%. My immediate reaction was, The Pelicans are now officially in "throw player under the bus so the fanbase knows that he was the bad guy so you can get behind the upcoming trade as we move forward together."
Nah, it's a small league where everyone knows everyone. If Zion was continually late for team activities and practice you can bet that everyone who is anyone in the league already knew about it. This statement and suspension today was for the fans who make the choice as to who to support on the way out....Zion or the Pelicans. What the team did was take the first step in putting the fanbase on their side. Kinda like the leak yesterday about Mayo playing card with the players after a loss rather than watching film. We've seen this act so many times over the years.
Interesting stat. Of players with 5+ catch and shoot three pointers on the year.
Pritchard and White are top 5 in terms of percentage (I think #1 and #2 actually)
Porzingis and Horford are in the bottom 5
Pritchard and White are top 5 in terms of percentage (I think #1 and #2 actually)
Porzingis and Horford are in the bottom 5
It's odd that Horford is so low. His year average isn't awful (.360), but he's been in a deep slump since Thanksgiving (.287 since then, .446 before). KP I expect to be lower on these lists because the degree of difficulty is so much higher, worth the trade off to stretch the defense and open up driving lanes.
Indy seems to have righted the ship. After losing to Charlotte on 12/8 they were 10-15. Since then they are 11-3, only losses were to Boston, OKC and Milwaukee. Over that stretch they've beaten Boston, GS (twice), Phoenix, Miami and Philly (with Embiid playing).
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43411900/sources-jimmy-butler-reiterates-trade-demand-heat-pat-riley
I dont think you all are enjoying this enough as Celtics fans.
I see you also like to listen to The Athletics "Slam N Jam" podcast.
For those here that do not listen to that (yet), it's a good time to start:
Their random "wheel of fandom" landed on Boston this weekend so they will discuss a lot of Celtics stuff with a C's beat writer in the next regular podcast (which may be in 1 or 2 weeks with there probably being a podcast with Sam Vecenie [host of the NBA Game Theory podcast] in between.)
I'm enjoying it plenty, but I get what you're saying. I think it's a combination of, the Celtics aren't playing great right now(which is at the least, annoying), and we've seen the Heat and Jimmy look dead before without it actually being true. They're still got the same number of losses as the 4 seed, and at this point I don't know if I want Jimmy to have to stay and Miami plays this out, or we see what kind of assets they can get for him.
We need live video of Jimmy saying that to Pat Riley's face. Then a bunch of us would probably have to call a doctor in 4 hours.
All star voting update:
View: https://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1879951862507667809
He'll make the ASG regardless, but I think this is the last time for a LONG time Wemby doesn't start. Other than Lamelo the fans are doing a pretty good job (Mitchell is locking in that 2nd starting guard spot, good), and I can't even really fault them for that one because I'm not sure there's another player in the league better suited for ASG play than Lamelo Ball.
View: https://twitter.com/NBAPR/status/1879951862507667809
He'll make the ASG regardless, but I think this is the last time for a LONG time Wemby doesn't start. Other than Lamelo the fans are doing a pretty good job (Mitchell is locking in that 2nd starting guard spot, good), and I can't even really fault them for that one because I'm not sure there's another player in the league better suited for ASG play than Lamelo Ball.
See. I knew I liked you.
He wont get in but im happy mr bow legged has been an upgrade over Paul George.
Ohm Youngmisuk with an interesting article on Draymond's experiences with therapy: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43361611/how-indefinite-suspension-revitalized-draymond-green-career
Wort a read/