PHO has to get Beal to waive a no-trade clause. That will be tough enough to accomplish.
General NBA season thread: 24-25 edition
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
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Bigger question: is there any team willing to take on Beal even with a Suns FRP? And even if Beal does have a landing spot (Maybe BRK takes him and the 2031 FRP for Cam Johnson plus stuff), what's going back to MIA that would make them trade Butler? I doubt Cam Johnson is going to do it - although he might be the best piece they can get.
Yeah, that's where I was going - I am not sure there is. Brooklyn was best I could come up wtih but if you were then, would you give up all that cap space for an uncertain culture fit (not that Beal is bad, just that he doesn't fit what they are trying to do development-wise) for a six years out 1st? Let alone having to send back an actual asset - I would think Cam Johnson alone is worth that pick, or something close.
Have not checked Detroit's salaries--they are sort of trying to compete and might like Beal a little? But he may not like them much, which matters with the no-trade clause.
DET has cap room so they can definitely do the trade but it would have to be centered around Tobias Harris. Harris and Hardaway for Beal work but if I were DET and I was giving that much cap savings to PHO, I'd demand Ryan Dunn back (it would have to be a concurrent trade as PHO can't aggregate players).
So a trade of Harris / Hardaway / Fontecchio for Beal + 2031 FRP works, with a concurrent trade of Dunn into cap space. Dunn may not be needed if Butler comes on board but boy will PHO be in bad shape after KD and Butler leave (or aren't able to play).
Why take on one of if not the worst contract in the league? Far better to just ride it out with Butler rather than take on a more burdensome contract/less effective player.
Sacramento sending DeRozan and…Murray? for Butler I could see. Detroit and Memphis as distinct long shots but not likely suitors
Taking on Beal's contract to hold the salary slot isn't super attractive given his no-trade clause, but letting Butler's deal expire doesn't open up a ton of great options. The best FAs this coming summer are Kyrie, Lebron, Ingram, Randle, Turner and Kuminga. That is pretty bleak.
You can take contracts into space to get assets though, at a time when a lot of the league might really need empty space into which to send contracts. You could then later use those contracts + assets to make interesting upgrades.
There are options here for Miami.
I don't think we have any idea whether that is difficult to accomplish. Maybe Beal hates playing with KD. Maybe he would rather play in Miami, or OKC, or Detroit, or wherever.
Say what you want about Lebron, but this stat, if true, is absolutely fucking bonkers:
LeBron James's streak of consecutive regular season games scoring at least 10 points is now old enough to vote. It predates the announcement of the original iPhone by three days. The streak alone has played the 37th most games of anyone in NBA history, more than Hakeem or Steve Nash.
2nd place is MJ, who is a full five seasons behind.
The current 2nd place active leader is KD, who needs to do it for 13 more seasons to catch Lebron.
LeBron James's streak of consecutive regular season games scoring at least 10 points is now old enough to vote. It predates the announcement of the original iPhone by three days. The streak alone has played the 37th most games of anyone in NBA history, more than Hakeem or Steve Nash.
2nd place is MJ, who is a full five seasons behind.
The current 2nd place active leader is KD, who needs to do it for 13 more seasons to catch Lebron.
Yup, he last scored under 10 (8) on 1/5/07.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lowest-scoring-games-by-the-lebron-james
3-13, 0-4 from 3 and 2-2 from the line. Played 43 minutes. Cavs won.
https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/270105015/cavaliers-bucks
I'd want to regress out (maybe not the right usage there) the copious years on Earth of the injured players before drawing any conclusions or trying to "fix" it. Kyrie's 33 in March. Given his age and mileage, a disc problem should hardly be surprising.
Out of those locations there is one that maybe 99% of NBA players would prefer. The other 1% would ring chase in Oklahoma City.
The other amazing thing about this list is how few games under 30 minutes there are.
Butler + salary for DMD, Murray, and Huerter works. SAC might do it because they'd get the best player and unload some salary with Huerter. MIA might do it because DMD might be the best player they can get back (when considering contracts) and Murray is a decent asset and maybe they think they can fix Huerter.
MIA trying to create some leverage says that they expect Butler to play in MIA games after the extension: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article298036423.html. From that article:
While the Heat is on the West Coast for its six-game trip, Butler is able to work out and use the Heat’s facilities at Kaseya Center even while suspended. Heat assistant coach Octavio De La Grana, player development coach Remy Ndiaye and assistant athletic trainer Armando Rivas did not travel with the team to the West Coast in order to be available to work with Butler in Miami during his suspension.
Interesting idea. MIA gets to compete this year still with those 3 coming back. SAC gets out from some not terrible, but not good money.
But I actually think SAC is giving up too much in that deal. That leaves SAC with a starting 5 of Fox, Monk/Ellis, Butler, Sabonis and ???? With a bench of Lyles, Ellis/Monk, Carter, Crowder, and McDermott. That is a not a top 1/2 starting 5 and that's gotta be a bottom 5 bench in the NBA.
These Butler deals are hard to figure out. I bet he just stays there, picks up his option next year, and plays less than 50% of his games going forward. Which sounds awesome
Yeah, it's not like Phoenix is an amazing winning team lighting the world on fire. Miami is probably more attractive for lifestyle (although players seem to like Phoenix), and if Beal is serious about getting his career back on track, there's no better coach/organization to do it with.
Also, Beal is somehow only 31.5???
We just got so used to pairing him with John Wall for those years... and John Wall aged in dog years, his body is like 50.
Maybe Beal is like a life-force vampire. He came for Wall, he came for Durant, he'll come for Booker and Bam if you let him.
SAC could try to pry someone better from MIA (Jokic?). Also, there are a couple of available guys that coyld round out the bench: Brissett, Stevens, LW4, TJ Warren, Justin Holiday, to name a few.
But it will probably never happen.
Beal might be happy going to MIA but I think Spo would lose a lot of sleep trying to figure out a way that Herro, Rozier, and Beal can exist on the same team.
Yeah I don't see how Beal makes any sense at all for Miami. They already have Beal at home, in more than one form.
The idea would be that Miami's excellent rejuvenation track record can turn Beal into something much better than what they have at home.
For me, it would come down to their physical evaluation of Beal: if I thought he still was close to his athletic prime, and that Heat Culture could keep him healthy and engaged, I'd do it, because he has very real upside as a player. If they think it's a John Wall situation, then obviously don't touch with a 10-foot pole.
Miami's track record with health/fitness/effort is so good that I'd at least kick the tires, in their shoes.
Of course, with guys like Jrue and KP needing cap space to go into this summer, the BATNA of "take quality guys into cap space from 2nd apron teams" is good too.
Beal played last night like he either was motivated to stay in Phoenix or motivated to convince Miami to trade for him. It’s one of the other….no idea which but that was prime Beal last night.
Yeah, unless there's some degenerative physical condition, I'm still intrigued. People forget how good he was, and a non-Wizards org could probably get him to play reasonable defense too.
Huge props to Orlando and Memphis for their records despite being ravaged by injuries. They built their cultures and it's been resilient. Great coaching.
Barry Jackson of the MIA Herald points out that if MIA misses the playoffs this year - and the pick they owe OKC doesn't convey - not only will OKC get an unprotected draft pick in 2026 but that also means that CHA will get an unprotected draft pick in 2028.
If Riley can't get Jimmy to play or something substantial back for him, this could be a disaster for MIA.
How Butler’s behavior has put both parties at major risk | Miami Herald
If Riley can't get Jimmy to play or something substantial back for him, this could be a disaster for MIA.
How Butler’s behavior has put both parties at major risk | Miami Herald
off the bench
9 straight seasons (~600 starts) of always starting may have garnered his attention
6th man (30+ minutes) is a good role for weak defensive score-first veteran guards, but damn he is pricey
Riley has tried to tilt this to try to put the team in control versus the player, which seems woefully out of touch with how the NBA works. You can’t box out your best player and expect results that benefit the team.
I can see waiting on the extension (maybe he signs for less later, maybe they trade him, maybe they let him go and use the space on free agents), but the suspension is nonsensical. All it does is destroy your own leverage (if everyone didn't know you were desperate to move him before, they certainly do now) and make you look like a giant ass in front of every player in the league, potentially including players on your own team. For an organization that theoretically has a lot of FA power based on location, recent history of success and the HC, this seems shooting yourself in the foot on purpose. The reason given was that it allows current players to concentrate on their own team, but it feels like it was just a salve for Riley's ego, at potentially a major cost. Hate to see it.
True, and fair. Also true that Butler has worn out his welcome everywhere he has been, so he's not exactly the most reliable guy either.
I too struggle to see why the suspension is helpful for Miami. Everyone knew Butler wanted out already, so it isn't about some kind of market message about him or anything like that. Maybe it really is just about keeping control of the rest of the team and the culture---presumably Butler was pretty distracting at the end---but it feels like a huge step and gamble.
Obviously a protected pick is better than unprotected, but MIA will have Bam and Herro and some combo of Butler, player traded for Butler, or max cap space in 2026 so I am unsure if MIA would miss the playoffs in the east. The 2028 is a little more concerning, but still, MIA has only missed the playoffs 3 times in the 16 years of Spo
While I generally agree with what you say, the ironic thing is that Jimmy's "slowdown" and outbursts are kind of an own-goal as well. If Jimmy wants his max contract next year, he's going to have MIA facilitate a sign-and-trade, otherwise he's going to be shopping on a market that doesn't have teams with cap space to give him one.
Which is why teams like HOU and SAS aren't going to trade anything real for Jimmy right now as there's a possibility that they get him at a severely discounted price this summer if Jimmy does decline his player option and MIA won't do a sign-and-trade. I mean if SAS only has $28M in cap space (as noted in the article), would Butler sign there for that amount?
Riley could have really cost MIA leverage but Jimmy could have cost himself millions.
Yes MIA will likely have a player traded for Butler or max cap space but there's a non-zero chance that Jimmy exercises his option and doesn't play in a ton of games for whatever reason. Which would leave MIA in a very tough spot.
Right no one comes out looking great here, but expect this from Jimmy. He was an ass (to put it lightly) at the end of his tenures in Chicago and Minnesota, and likely would've done the same in Philly had he been there longer. We expect more from Riley, who has built a reputation as one of the very best FO execs in the league since going to Miami 30 years ago. Jimmy throws his temper tantrum, Riley absolutely did not have to match that energy right back, which is what the suspension is. We've had a few media types carrying his water ("Riley will not be intimidated"), but regardless of what's happening now, you just can't treat your franchise's most important player over the last decade like this without it backfiring.
Yeah, they were the top 2 teams impacted by injuries. Celtics 10th by this system.
View: https://twitter.com/SravanNBA/status/1876828155912093708
Memphis lineup with the most minutes played together is Bane, Clarke, JJJ, Morant, and Wells. For a total of 84 minutes.
For reference, the Boston lineup of White, Holiday, Brown, Tatum, Horford has played 206 minutes
For reference, the Boston lineup of White, Holiday, Brown, Tatum, Horford has played 206 minutes
Middleton heading to the bench:
View: https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1877030002182476111
Maybe now we can stop hearing about how different the Bucks can be if he's healthy. It's been 3 years since he was a legit difference maker, that guy is gone.
View: https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1877030002182476111
Maybe now we can stop hearing about how different the Bucks can be if he's healthy. It's been 3 years since he was a legit difference maker, that guy is gone.
Good for the Magic; they deserve a break.
I wouldn't feel great, as Cleveland, if that ended up being my 2nd round matchup.
Heck, I wouldn't feel great as Boston. Orlando has the personnel to be really annoying to Boston/Cleveland-style offense.
Yeah they flexed it to national TV a few weeks ago. Same with the return leg a week from now, to TNT.
you never know what injuries may bring, but there should be no free passes in the second round in the East this year, as you have the knicks sitting there as a 3 seed. They aren't a perfect team, but certainly a much tougher matchup than what Boston had in the second round last year
Also in the East, Indiana starting to look like the team the C's faced in the playoffs last season.
He was a difference maker in the playoffs last year. Double ankle surgeries, bad knee, the dude is like 32 going on 55. Strategy wise I like the move and it shouldn't affect his minutes. His offense isn't necessary with Giannis and Lillard on the floor so utilizing Prince as a 3-and-D guy while giving the second unit some much needed shot creation makes sense even though every headline will be, "Middleton is being benched!"