General NBA season thread: 24-25 edition

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Their exterior defense is just terrible, so they will continue to lose to teams that can shoot.

Exterior defense - is that their defense outside the building? (sorry, couldn't resist).

But I know what you mean. AJJ apparently got ejected last night (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nba/bucks/2025/01/02/bucks-andre-jackson-jr-ejected-for-slapping-nets-center-nic-claxton/77417870007/) and without him, they don't have anyone who can defend quicks/wings. Cam Thomas goes for 24 (though 8-22 from the field) but Cam Johnson goes for 26 (10-16, including 6-10 from 3P).

Also in the game, MIL went 19-28 from the FT line (Giannis was 3-10); BRK goes 25-28.

Hard to know what to make of the bucks, after a loss tonight to Brooklyn.

Doesn't seem that difficult to me. MIL doesn't have a lot of room for error. Giannis has to play at an all-NBA level every night and one of Dame/Khris have to bring their A game or they will have difficulty outscoring the other team. Last night, looks like Giannis played his part (other than missed FTs) but Dame went 6-20 (including 4-13 from 3P; you know he's not getting any value on the other end) and Khris went 6-11 but 0-3 from 3P and 0-0 from the FT line).

Maybe MIL can get their Big 3 play at an "A" level night-in-and-night-out for a couple of months at the end of the season, and if they do, they will definitely be a tough out for anyone. But nothing we've seen thus far suggests that is going to happen.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

It's not just Celtics fans that discount the bucks. They've got possibly the league mvp, a solid supporting all star, a decent group of experienced role players, a coach with title experience, and they are still just 7th in current title odds, right between Dallas and Phoenix. On one of his last podcasts with espn, zach lowe talked about how he had spoke to nba execs and insiders all over the league, looking for someone who was still bullish on the bucks, and couldn't find any takers. Most of the league has been out on the bucks since they crashed and burned last spring. You can say it was just because giannis was hurt (windhorst), but they only won 49 games with him being mostly healthy, plus he's missed playoffs games to injury in 4 of the last 5 seasons - he's not exactly Embiid out there, but at some point "they'll be better when he's healthy next year" just doesn't make sense. Counting on health from middleton makes even less sense at this point.

I don’t disagree with any of this and 7th sounds about right. They simply aren’t as good as the best teams but certainly not that far removed from the group. I suppose it’s about expectations. They are a real good team when healthy and could probably win a couple playoff rounds if things went right….just like 7-8 other teams not named Boston, OKC and probably Cleveland and NY. They have flaws just as Houston, Dallas, Memphis, Denver, what would have been Orlando if not for injuries, the LA teams, etc do.

 

[lovegtm]

I don’t disagree with any of this and 7th sounds about right. They simply aren’t as good as the best teams but certainly not that far removed from the group. I suppose it’s about expectations. They are a real good team when healthy and could probably win a couple playoff rounds if things went right….just like 7-8 other teams not named Boston, OKC and probably Cleveland and NY. They have flaws just as Houston, Dallas, Memphis, Denver, what would have been Orlando if not for injuries, the LA teams, etc do.

Yeah, I think you're arguing against a person who thinks they're a lottery team, as opposed to a "good but flawed" team, which is where most of us put them.

I'd be very bearish about them vs. Cleveland or NY, just because those teams should be able to expose their perimeter defense so hard. I don't think either is getting enough love for how good their offenses are.

 

[The Social Chair]

The millenial cohort (Butler, Durant, Kawhi, Kyrie, Harden) will be demanding trades in their nursing homes 50 years from now.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

He only took 6 shots last night? Ha.

I like Jimmy. "I probably can't find my joy here" is a good way around the no public trade request rules.

He took 5 shots the game before. Last night his usage% was 14%; the game before (against NOP, that they won) it was 12.2%.

This article says he spent much of the game "camped" in the corner, except when Spo made him point guard to try to get him more involved.

I didn't watch the games but I wonder if Jimmy is attempting a Harden-esque work slow-down to try to get moved.

 

[Kliq]

Remember when during the pre-season the hype was that Jimmy Butler was going to take the regular season seriously this year?

 

[Smokey Joe]

Remember when during the pre-season the hype was that Jimmy Butler was going to take the regular season seriously this year?

He is. He’s seriously trying to get himself traded.

 

[joe dokes]

He is. He’s seriously trying to get himself traded.

Riley will engineer a complicated trade that makes the Heat marginally better and makes Butler a Wizard, Blazer, Jazzman, or Pelican.

 

[jon abbey]

If you are starting an expansion team and you get to choose between Anthony Edwards and Cade Cunningham, which are you taking (ignoring contracts, just the player)? They are almost exactly the same age, 23 and a month apart.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If you are starting an expansion team and you get to choose between Anthony Edwards and Cade Cunningham, which are you taking (ignoring contracts, just the player)? They are almost exactly the same age, 23 and a month apart.

I've always been a Cade guy but there are levels here. Edwards snap call.

 

[jon abbey]

I haven't really seen either enough to answer but I wonder how much the teammates of each have influenced their careers/perception so far (hence the original question).

 

[Euclis20]

If you are starting an expansion team and you get to choose between Anthony Edwards and Cade Cunningham, which are you taking (ignoring contracts, just the player)? They are almost exactly the same age, 23 and a month apart.

I don’t think we’re close to having that conversation yet, and I love how Cade has played this year. I’d be banking on Ant finding some maturity over Cade finding his way into the top 10.

With a day to sleep on it, Ant’s comments last night seem even worse. How is this what you’re talking about after a game in which your teammates shot over 60% from 3? I’m over the excuses, he’s not a typical 23 year old, he’s a 5 year NBA vet. When people keep telling you who they are, listen to them - he’s immature, period. He doesn’t seem anywhere close to leading a team through the adversity required to win a title.

 

[jon abbey]

OKC has five of their six games for the season against BOS/CLE/NY in the next two weeks, strange scheduling.

 

[InstaFace]

Riley will engineer a complicated trade that makes the Heat marginally better and makes Butler a Wizard, Blazer, Jazzman, or Pelican.

Full marks for "Jazzman" as a demonym.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Miami media people are infighting like crazy. Barry Jackson is super respected, despite the tantrum he threw about the Blazers refusing to “fairly” negotiate the Lillard deal.

View: https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1875230774729003208

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Miami media people are infighting like crazy. Barry Jackson is super respected, despite the tantrum he threw about the Blazers refusing to “fairly” negotiate the Lillard deal.

View: https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1875230774729003208

I presume the back-and-forth had to do with this article - The potential Heat upside for waiting until July to move Butler. Examining all scenarios - where Jackson breaks down potential trade partners and cap implications but also had this tidbit at the end:

Hours before Butler’s fiery postgame news conference on Thursday, there was a conversation between Heat officials and Butler’s representation, according to league sources.​

​

Butler was bothered after the discussion because Butler and his agent perceived that Heat officials were implying that Butler didn’t play his hardest in the Heat’s home win over the New Orleans Pelicans on Wednesday. Butler scored nine points on five shots and did not play in the fourth quarter of that contest in his first game after a five-game absence stemming from an illness.​

​

But the Heat contends that it was a more macro level discussion regarding the team’s concern over Butler’s behavior in recent weeks since the trade noise has grown louder.​

​

Butler’s camp left that Thursday conversation with the perception that the Heat was considering suspending him for his effort in Wednesday’s victory over the Pelicans, but the Heat insists it never threatened Butler with a suspension for that reason.​

​

Note that if MIA misses the playoffs this year, its 2026 FRP is conveyed to OKC without protections (OKC gets it if MIA makes the playoffs this year). In addition, MIA owes CHA its 2027 FRP which is also lottery-protected, but if not conveyed, that pick also conveys unprotected in 2028.

Man, Riley has put himself into a rough spot.

 

[lovegtm]

I presume the back-and-forth had to do with this article - The potential Heat upside for waiting until July to move Butler. Examining all scenarios - where Jackson breaks down potential trade partners and cap implications but also had this tidbit at the end:

Hours before Butler’s fiery postgame news conference on Thursday, there was a conversation between Heat officials and Butler’s representation, according to league sources.​

​

Butler was bothered after the discussion because Butler and his agent perceived that Heat officials were implying that Butler didn’t play his hardest in the Heat’s home win over the New Orleans Pelicans on Wednesday. Butler scored nine points on five shots and did not play in the fourth quarter of that contest in his first game after a five-game absence stemming from an illness.​

​

But the Heat contends that it was a more macro level discussion regarding the team’s concern over Butler’s behavior in recent weeks since the trade noise has grown louder.​

​

Butler’s camp left that Thursday conversation with the perception that the Heat was considering suspending him for his effort in Wednesday’s victory over the Pelicans, but the Heat insists it never threatened Butler with a suspension for that reason.​

​

Note that if MIA misses the playoffs this year, its 2026 FRP is conveyed to OKC without protections (OKC gets it if MIA makes the playoffs this year). In addition, MIA owes CHA its 2027 FRP which is also lottery-protected, but if not conveyed, that pick also conveys unprotected in 2028.

Man, Riley has put himself into a rough spot.

Despite all the theory of the Heat being a glamour market, the only star since LeBron who has signed there OR been able to force a trade there is Butler. And all reports are that he would have been fine to sign with Philly if they had moved Simmons.

Spo is amazing, and Heat culture is real, but they've had as many high-profile guys voluntarily commit there as OKC, in the last 10 years.

The theory of Miami being a huge draw just hasn't worked out in practice. Notably, the last (only?) guy to demand a trade to Miami was Lillard, and he's from the older generation, when Miami was still cool.

 

[benhogan]

I don’t think we’re close to having that conversation yet, and I love how Cade has played this year. I’d be banking on Ant finding some maturity over Cade finding his way into the top 10.

With a day to sleep on it, Ant’s comments last night seem even worse. How is this what you’re talking about after a game in which your teammates shot over 60% from 3? I’m over the excuses, he’s not a typical 23 year old, he’s a 5 year NBA vet. When people keep telling you who they are, listen to them - he’s immature, period. He doesn’t seem anywhere close to leading a team through the adversity required to win a title.

This is where I'm at.
For some reason, Ant keeps getting a media pass by throwing his teammates under the bus after his crappy performance

My BINGO Card has Ant demanding a trade this summer after a Play-In exit.

The Wolves are in danger of spiraling into some dark places over the next few seasons.

 

[tims4wins]

It's getting pretty damn close.

The only real question is whether Cade's 3 point improvement is real. If it is, I think he will surpass Ant. He shot .355 last year and is up to .372 this year, but was around 30% prior to that. Whereas Ant is up over 40% this year.

Cade is also bigger, and hands out nearly 2.5x as many assists.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Despite all the theory of the Heat being a glamour market, the only star since LeBron who has signed there OR been able to force a trade there is Butler. And all reports are that he would have been fine to sign with Philly if they had moved Simmons.

Spo is amazing, and Heat culture is real, but they've had as many high-profile guys voluntarily commit there as OKC, in the last 10 years.

The theory of Miami being a huge draw just hasn't worked out in practice. Notably, the last (only?) guy to demand a trade to Miami was Lillard, and he's from the older generation, when Miami was still cool.

Yeah, I wonder if Riley has gotten high on his own supply (of "Heat Culture") as their roster is pretty dreadful. Paying Rozier $24.9M and $26.6M this and next year is not a great use of cap space and we've discussed Robinson's contract ad nauseum. Other than that, they've got a bunch of jags I guess Riley thinks Spo can turn into productive players,

And then there's Kel'el Ware, who played 21.5 minutes last night and had 25 points on 9-11 shooting (3-4 from 3P) but had 0 rebounds as a 7 footer. He's starting to remind me of Brad Lohaus without the passing.

 

[lovegtm]

Yeah, I wonder if Riley has gotten high on his own supply (of "Heat Culture") as their roster is pretty dreadful. Paying Rozier $24.9M and $26.6M this and next year is not a great use of cap space and we've discussed Robinson's contract ad nauseum. Other than that, they've got a bunch of jags I guess Riley thinks Spo can turn into productive players,

And then there's Kel'el Ware, who played 21.5 minutes last night and had 25 points on 9-11 shooting (3-4 from 3P) but had 0 rebounds as a 7 footer. He's starting to remind me of Brad Lohaus without the passing.

The 2 Finals appearances really skew our perception of the Heat positively (as they should!), but that's Spo Magic, and has (almost) nothing to do with Riley, or Miami being a destination.

 

[tims4wins]

The 2 Finals appearances really skew our perception of the Heat positively (as they should!), but that's Spo Magic, and has (almost) nothing to do with Riley, or Miami being a destination.

It was kind of the equivalent to the Sox making the 2021 ALCS as proof their system was working. Fool's gold. Except the Heat actually have 2 stars in Jimmy and Bam.

 

[Euclis20]

It's getting pretty damn close.

The only real question is whether Cade's 3 point improvement is real. If it is, I think he will surpass Ant. He shot .355 last year and is up to .372 this year, but was around 30% prior to that. Whereas Ant is up over 40% this year.

Cade is also bigger, and hands out nearly 2.5x as many assists.

Ant has been the best player on multiple playoff teams, while playing tremendously well in the playoffs and led his team to the WCF last year. Until Detroit actually gets to .500, Cade is just another good stats guy on a bad team that no one bothers to really game plan against. Respectfully, Cade isn’t in the same stratosphere as a player just yet.

 

[tims4wins]

Ant has been the best player on multiple playoff teams, while playing tremendously well in the playoffs and led his team to the WCF last year. Until Detroit actually gets to .500, Cade is just another good stats guy on a bad team that no one bothers to really game plan against. Respectfully, Cade isn’t in the same stratosphere as a player just yet.

All completely accurate and fair, but the continued improvement by Cade coupled with the - maybe not regressing, but plateauing? by Ant - has be considering the possibility in a way that I would have thought was insane as recently as a few months ago.

And I will totally admit that Ant's comments last night REALLY soured me.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Heat suspend Butler for 7 games, to listen on trade offers

View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1875333050336473244

 

[Euclis20]

That's a $4M+ fine. Gotta figure he appeals that.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Heat suspend Butler for 7 games, to listen on trade offers

View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1875333050336473244

Riles is going to do him so dirty with whatever trade he cooks up.

The Heat are like an NBA reality show. They can be entertaining but you feel slimy and orders of magnitude dumber for having watched.

 

[amfox1]

Butler has already missed 10 games. The 7-game suspension means Butler will max out at 65 games this year, which is the threshold for All-NBA and other awards. Don't think it's a coincidence.

EDIT: Per Bobby Marks, Butler has the right file a grievance within the next 30 days. The fine money ($3.73mm) will be held in escrow until a resolution is reached. The process could take up to a year.

 

[Auger34]

The 2 Finals appearances really skew our perception of the Heat positively (as they should!), but that's Spo Magic, and has (almost) nothing to do with Riley, or Miami being a destination.

I think they are still a destination and they will always, almost automatically, have their foot in the door for any free agent. However, I think having their foot in the door is drastically overrated by Bill Simmons and people like that. A foot in the door isn’t the same as a guarantee and it doesn’t seem like many great players have actually hit the free agent market since Durant

 

[jon abbey]

Butler has already missed 10 games. The 7-game suspension means Butler will max out at 65 games this year, which is the threshold for All-NBA and other awards. Don't think it's a coincidence.

EDIT: Per Bobby Marks, Butler has the right file a grievance within the next 30 days. The fine money ($3.73mm) will be held in escrow until a resolution is reached. The process could take up to a year.

I think the 7 games is more about that goes until the trading deadline, 1/15, so he’s done in Miami.

 

[Auger34]

Butler for Kuminga, who says no? (If the answer is the NBA rule book then I assume Dunleavy can throw in whatever salary ballast is needed to complete the deal)

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I think the 7 games is more about that goes until the trading deadline, 1/15, so he’s done in Miami.

Believe the trade deadline is 2/6

I would guess GS says no to Kuminga for Butler. I’m not sure they should, but I’m lower on Kuminga’s upside than consensus

 

[RSN Diaspora]

Butler for Kuminga, who says no? (If the answer is the NBA rule book then I assume Dunleavy can throw in whatever salary ballast is needed to complete the deal)

GSW, probably. Unless you get Butler to pre-agree to an extension at whatever the acquiring team determines his value to be at ages 36 and 37, I don’t see why anyone trades anything MIA actually wants in return.

 

[TomRicardo]

Butler for Kuminga, who says no? (If the answer is the NBA rule book then I assume Dunleavy can throw in whatever salary ballast is needed to complete the deal)

How do you even make the work? Do you add Wiggins? If I am the Heat I rather cut Butler than add Wiggins.

 

[nattysez]

GSW, probably. Unless you get Butler to pre-agree to an extension at whatever the acquiring team determines his value to be at ages 36 and 37, I don’t see why anyone trades anything MIA actually wants in return.

Totally agree. I'm not sure what value Butler really has beyond trading bad contracts.

The Wiz would probably love to trade Poole and/or Kuzma for him, which would give them a chance to reset in a year. But I'm not sure Heat Culture / Spo can fix those two yahoos.

Maybe Riley can get the Pels on the horn so Zion and Ingram can be included in whatever crazy 4-way trade he's cooking up.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Too bad the Butler/Lillard salaries don't match up (they are $11,000 off); that would be interesting trade to consider.

How do you even make the work? Do you add Wiggins? If I am the Heat I rather cut Butler than add Wiggins.

Yeah, they'd have to add Wiggins something like $13M in salary. Straight up it looks like it would be a 4 for 1 or something like that, which would wreck each team's rosters, so they'd need a 3rd or 4th teams involved. But it could be done theoretically.

 

[amfox1]

I think the most likely trade partner is Memphis. The Griz need a wing, and the combination of Marcus Smart, Brandon Clarke, Luke Kennard and flotsam works in the trade machine, plus a first round pick or two. Marcus on Miami would be rough, however.

 

[jon abbey]

Believe the trade deadline is 2/6

Whoops, of course I should doublecheck what I read on social media, sorry.

 

[Smokey Joe]

This is where I'm at.
For some reason, Ant keeps getting a media pass by throwing his teammates under the bus after his crappy performance

My BINGO Card has Ant demanding a trade this summer after a Play-In exit.

The Wolves are in danger of spiraling into some dark places over the next few seasons.

Why does an image of Danny Ainge rubbing his hands together and laughing sinisterly flash into my mind while I'm reading this?

 

[benhogan]

Why does an image of Danny Ainge rubbing his hands together and laughing sinisterly flash into my mind while I'm reading this?

Ha, didn't even cross my mind,

I'm sure St. Danny will be there to give the Wolves all their picks back for Ant-Man

 

[RorschachsMask]

That Jokic/Wemby matchup was insane, Spurs won 113-110 after a late Jokic turnover.

35/18/4 on 22 shots for Wemby, +17 even with 7 TO’s.
41/18/9 on 36 shots for Jokic, +7

 

[Euclis20]

All completely accurate and fair, but the continued improvement by Cade coupled with the - maybe not regressing, but plateauing? by Ant - has be considering the possibility in a way that I would have thought was insane as recently as a few months ago.

And I will totally admit that Ant's comments last night REALLY soured me.

It's more than reasonable to be a bit down on Ant given his comments last night (and his and Minnesota's start to the year), but progress isn't always linear and he's still following the Tatum path, miles ahead of Cade:



Ant ended last year right where Tatum was at the end of the 2021 season, having broke out and looking poised to be a top ten player. Tatum had a 60 point game in the regular season and multiple 50 point games in the playoffs, and we all know how Ant ended last year. Next year, the 2022 Celtics were famously a very average team until late January, and Tatum's season was relatively underwhelming to that point as well (averaging 26/8/4 with a .546 TS), then he took off as the Celtics finished 26-6 (averaging 29/7/5 with a .631 TS). I'm not saying that's what's coming for Ant and the Wolves, just that progress comes in fits and bursts, and I don't think anyone should be surprised if Ant finishes the year stronger than he started it. Cade is intriguing, but he's just not in the same room as Ant. Even right now Ant is at least a top 15 guy, I'm not sure Cade is even top 30.

 

[LA_33]

I think Cade is a star, and will keep getting better, but I’m with HRB on that not even being a question, it’s Ant without a second thought.

He can be very immature. But he actually seems pretty coachable, and he still largely makes the right plays when he’s doubled, even as he’s whining about not getting to score. Also, in the other half of the game, and unlike Cade, he’s a really impactful defender, too, even if mostly only on the ball.

I also think a big part of his “plateau” so far this year is a correct, likely coaching-driven realization that he needs to be more of a spacer this year, with KAT gone, and Randle needing some room to fit in as best he can. In that regard, Ant has significantly increased his three-point volume, AND he’s shooting a career high 40% from distance, including dramatically improving his shooting off the dribble (he’s been a killer spot shooter for a couple years, but now the pull-up 3s have largely caught up, which is scary).

A guy that athletic and skilled as a finisher and mid-range scorer, who is now shooting 40% on almost 10 3PA/GM is a freaking terrifying NBA scorer.

The talent mix around him is awkward now, but they’re getting more comfortable, and the mix may change again in the next year (the Naz/Rudy frontcourt remains very strong at both ends, and that’s the longer-term starting group, IMO).

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I think Cade is a star, and will keep getting better, but I’m with HRB on that not even being a question, it’s Ant without a second thought.

He can be very immature. But he actually seems pretty coachable, and he still largely makes the right plays when he’s doubled, even as he’s whining about not getting to score. Also, in the other half of the game, and unlike Cade, he’s a really impactful defender, too, even if mostly only on the ball.

I also think a big part of his “plateau” so far this year is a correct, likely coaching-driven realization that he needs to be more of a spacer this year, with KAT gone, and Randle needing some room to fit in as best he can. In that regard, Ant has significantly increased his three-point volume, AND he’s shooting a career high 40% from distance, including dramatically improving his shooting off the dribble (he’s been a killer spot shooter for a couple years, but now the pull-up 3s have largely caught up, which is scary).

A guy that athletic and skilled as a finisher and mid-range scorer, who is now shooting 40% on almost 10 3PA/GM is a freaking terrifying NBA scorer.

The talent mix around him is awkward now, but they’re getting more comfortable, and the mix may change again in the next year (the Naz/Rudy frontcourt remains very strong at both ends, and that’s the longer-term starting group, IMO).

One thing about the Cade versus Ant debate - Ant has had way better teammates.

This is really the first year Cade has been surrounded by floor spacers, and Cade is currently at 23.6 / 6.7 / 9.5. Beasley is a primary beneficiary of Cade's playmaking as he's hitting, according to this article - https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6035664/2025/01/03/dorian-finney-smith-lakers-cade-cunningham-pistons-nba-trends/ (the Cade part is after the LAL part) - 46% from 3P after receiving passes from Cade.

In addition, it appears that Cade has taken a step forward on shooting. Also from article, of the 39 NBA players who are taking at least 3 pull-up jumpers a game, Cade is 6th in percentage (at 40%).

It's also been noted that Cade is super mature for his age.

I think it's a much closer question right now than a lot of people realize, and I wouldn't be shocked that in a couple of years and Ant doesn't visibly mature, people start touting Cade as being a better leader.

 

[lovegtm]

One thing about the Cade versus Ant debate - Ant has had way better teammates.

This is really the first year Cade has been surrounded by floor spacers, and Cade is currently at 23.6 / 6.7 / 9.5. Beasley is a primary beneficiary of Cade's playmaking as he's hitting, according to this article - https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6035664/2025/01/03/dorian-finney-smith-lakers-cade-cunningham-pistons-nba-trends/ (the Cade part is after the LAL part) - 46% from 3P after receiving passes from Cade.

In addition, it appears that Cade has taken a step forward on shooting. Also from article, of the 39 NBA players who are taking at least 3 pull-up jumpers a game, Cade is 6th in percentage (at 40%).

It's also been noted that Cade is super mature for his age.

I think it's a much closer question right now than a lot of people realize, and I wouldn't be shocked that in a couple of years and Ant doesn't visibly mature, people start touting Cade as being a better leader.

People are too low on Detroit in general, because of how bad they've been. They're one move (and some good luck, like not what happened to Ivey) away from being pretty good.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

People are too low on Detroit in general, because of how bad they've been. They're one move (and some good luck, like not what happened to Ivey) away from being pretty good.

Yeah, if they can get one of their draft picks (past or future) to really break out, they could be a problem.

I know DET would never do it but Harris / Hardaway / Fontecchio for Butler / salary works in the spotrac trade machine.

The memes that would be generated would be priceless.

 

[lovegtm]

Yeah, if they can get one of their draft picks (past or future) to really break out, they could be a problem.

I know DET would never do it but Harris / Hardaway / Fontecchio for Butler / salary works in the spotrac trade machine.

The memes that would be generated would be priceless.

Why would they never do it? Seems like exactly the type of trade you sign Tobias Harris to be able to do.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Why would they never do it? Seems like exactly the type of trade you sign Tobias Harris to be able to do.

My guess is that DET doesn't care about how many games they win this year and the last thing they'd want to do is have Jimmy Butler in a locker room with all of their young guys. Plus, fitting Jimmy in when they want the ball in Cade's hands would be difficult I would think.

BUT - if DET decided they wanted to make a playoff run this year and made that trade, DET would instantly become top of my League Pass list.

 

[jon abbey]

One thing about the Cade versus Ant debate - Ant has had way better teammates.

This is really the first year Cade has been surrounded by floor spacers, and Cade is currently at 23.6 / 6.7 / 9.5. Beasley is a primary beneficiary of Cade's playmaking as he's hitting, according to this article - https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6035664/2025/01/03/dorian-finney-smith-lakers-cade-cunningham-pistons-nba-trends/ (the Cade part is after the LAL part) - 46% from 3P after receiving passes from Cade.

In addition, it appears that Cade has taken a step forward on shooting. Also from article, of the 39 NBA players who are taking at least 3 pull-up jumpers a game, Cade is 6th in percentage (at 40%).

It's also been noted that Cade is super mature for his age.

I think it's a much closer question right now than a lot of people realize, and I wouldn't be shocked that in a couple of years and Ant doesn't visibly mature, people start touting Cade as being a better leader.

This is basically what I think also, Ant has never played without KAT before this season and as Knicks fans now see, KAT creates so much space for his teammates on offense (and a little too much on defense, heh). KAT's defense at the 5 I think is a more nuanced discussion (if it is late in a game or a big situation and he is not in foul trouble, he can become an aggressive defensive weapon) but that didn't matter for Ant either the last two seasons because they had Gobert at the 5.

So yeah, January 4, 2025, the Jersey City Erstwhiles select with the first pick in a two player draft, Cade Cunningham. We'll see how this looks in a few years.

 

[Euclis20]

Ant off to a monster scoring night, 43 points with a few minutes left in the 3rd quarter. He's taken that scorer mentality to heart, he's doing almost nothing else - 1 rebound, 1 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 4 turnovers. Minnesota down 20+ to Cade and Detroit.