General NBA season thread: 24-25 edition

InstaFace

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Sep 27, 2016
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BRK now has 15 first-round picks and 16 second-round picks in the next 7 years, which is the most in the NBA (even more than OKC). Truly amazing.
Man, that just seems insane if you don't have an asset-management genius like Presti sitting on top of that pile.

Like, as an instructive example, consider what OKC did to build their current contender, where the key value came from:

- SGA: Paul George trade, unloading a superstar on end of his all-NBA-level years, identifying and getting the next superstar while also picking up 4.5 first-rounders and 2 pick swaps, because Kawhi had the Clippers over a barrel
- J-Dub: Selected #12 in 2022 using one of the Paul George picks
- Chet: Selected #2 in 2022 using their own draft pick because the 21-22 Thunder had tanked (went from 4th to #2 in the lottery)
- Dort: Signed as a two-way player in 2019, converted to standard contract in summer 2020, signed an above-MLE deal in summer 2022 for 4 years + team option
- Cason Wallace: 2023 Draft-night swap where Dallas sent them #10 (Wallace) + Davis Bertans for #12 (Lively) + a late 1st
- Hartenstein: Signed as an FA using cap room

None of that involved OKC shipping out any of their major draft assets (other than Paul George himself, whose trade was the source of most of them, of course), and only one of them has brought them any value when actually used (J-Dub). Their use of the Paul George picks has been as follows:

- 2021 Miami 1st (#18), originally traded in 2015 (!) by Miami to 3 other teams before LAC sent to OKC: selected Tre Mann, who was then traded on deadline day 2024 along with two 2nd-rounders for the corpse of Gordon Hayward
- 2022 LAC 1st (#12): selected J-Dub, clearly an important pillar of the roster
- 2023 Miami 1st (#18), top-14 protected: Traded back to Miami in Feb 2024* in exchange for their 2025 1st (again top-14 protected), which becomes an unprotected 2026 first if it does not convey. Good punt to increase future value, as long as Miami is a lottery team this year. Miami picked Jaime Jaquez, now a rotation player for them, though who's to say OKC would have drafted as well as that at #18.
- 2023 LAC swap rights: not conveyed
- 2024 LAC 1st (#26): traded to Dallas on deadline day 2024 for rights to swap 1sts with Dallas in 2028
- 2025 LAC swap rights: likely to convey around #20ish
- 2026 LAC 1st: likely to convey (unprotected); they owe PHI the least-favorable of OKC, LAC and HOU [5-30].

Instead, they have mostly been rearranging deckchairs and punting value into the future. Other disposals / punts of their assets:

- Jul 2019: As part of the Chris Paul / Westbrook trade (Which got them HOU's 2024 + 2026 1sts [prot 1-4] and 2021 + 2025 swap rights [prot 1-20]), acquired Houston's 2024 1st (#12); ultimately drafted Nikola Topic, the hottest prospect out of Red Star in Serbia, who had torn his ACL in April and will miss the entire 2024-25 NBA season. 2021 swap rights did not convey (HOU drafted at #2 so it was protected); 2025 swap rights will likely convey at the rate Houston is going, but not be used at the rate OKC is going; and 2026 HOU 1st [5-30] may stay or may go to PHI, per the terms of the Dec 2020 Al Horford trade.
- Jun 2023: Acquired Cason Wallace from Dallas in the Dereck Lively swap, in exchange for the least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that then they held (ultimately sent out their own #29, while keeping UTA #10 and HOU #12 and later shipping out LAC #26), which ended up going to Indiana as part of a 4-team deal.
- in the same trade, sent out a 2024 2nd (least-favorable of MIN and CHA, of which they held both), in exchange for what will probably be the 2027 Denver 1st (top-5 protected), which is a good-value move for OKC
- Feb 2024: Acquired pick-swap rights with Dallas for their 2028 1st, in exchange for the second-least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that they then held (ultimately sent out LAC #26, while keeping UTA #10, HOU #12, and having already committed OKC #29). Dallas then sent that pick to the Wizards for Gafford.

They also own, just for first rounders:

- All their own picks, except where they're sending out the least-favorable of several owned picks, which seems likelier to be their own.
- PHI 2025 1st [7-30] -> PHI 2026 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 2nd
- UTA 2025 1st [11-30] -> UTA 2026 1st [9-30]
- MIA 2025 1st [15-30] -> MIA 2026 1st [unprot]
- DEN 2027 [6-30] or later if DEN conveys their pick to ORL later than 2025 (Aaron Gordon trade); could convey anytime 2027-2030, or if not then 2030 2nd
- DAL 2028 swap rights, as noted

And here's my point: even despite the fact that they have room the next few years to take on a big salary or two for an upgrade, and that they clearly have the draft-pick assets to entice another team to part with a star, they have not done so. Clearly, it is harder than we realize to find a good fit with current personnel and to use those draft picks to bring them in, while staying clear of apron-related penalties of the new CBA. As best I can discern, Presti's strategy with their 1st-rounders is to either make the pick if they think it could be an impact player (like they did with Nikola Topic), or otherwise ship it out for future draft rights down the road, playing the odds that it will become a high-value pick. It hasn't involved cashing in these chips to bring in a big name.

Now, Brooklyn has an easier path to upgrading their roster than OKC does, since Brooklyn has very few players they definitely want to keep in the first place (maybe just Cam Thomas; I'm sure Claxton and Cam Johnson are available for the right deal). But to do so, they need some sort of star-player firesale to happen, where they can come in with the top bid. Something like a Lillard/Giannis breakup in Milwaukee (not happening on current evidence), or a Fox/Sabonis breakup in Sacramento - something where they can get a star who's young enough to grow into a key role on a contender in a few years' time. Barring that, they need to go from "lots of assets" to "fewer GREAT assets" and somehow come up with top picks and hit on them. And that's easier said than done.


* Miami was motivated to do the deal because the rollover provisions on the 2023 pick (in order to do their 2019 Jimmy Butler trade) had encumbered their ability to trade picks from 2022-2026, and so this freed up several picks for trades.
 

AMS25

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Feb 29, 2008
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Holland on the Plains
Man, that just seems insane if you don't have an asset-management genius like Presti sitting on top of that pile.

Like, as an instructive example, consider what OKC did to build their current contender, where the key value came from:

- SGA: Paul George trade, unloading a superstar on end of his all-NBA-level years, identifying and getting the next superstar while also picking up 4.5 first-rounders and 2 pick swaps, because Kawhi had the Clippers over a barrel
- J-Dub: Selected #12 in 2022 using one of the Paul George picks
- Chet: Selected #2 in 2022 using their own draft pick because the 21-22 Thunder had tanked (went from 4th to #2 in the lottery)
- Dort: Signed as a two-way player in 2019, converted to standard contract in summer 2020, signed an above-MLE deal in summer 2022 for 4 years + team option
- Cason Wallace: 2023 Draft-night swap where Dallas sent them #10 (Wallace) + Davis Bertans for #12 (Lively) + a late 1st
- Hartenstein: Signed as an FA using cap room

None of that involved OKC shipping out any of their major draft assets (other than Paul George himself, whose trade was the source of most of them, of course), and only one of them has brought them any value when actually used (J-Dub). Their use of the Paul George picks has been as follows:

- 2021 Miami 1st (#18), originally traded in 2015 (!) by Miami to 3 other teams before LAC sent to OKC: selected Tre Mann, who was then traded on deadline day 2024 along with two 2nd-rounders for the corpse of Gordon Hayward
- 2022 LAC 1st (#12): selected J-Dub, clearly an important pillar of the roster
- 2023 Miami 1st (#18), top-14 protected: Traded back to Miami in Feb 2024* in exchange for their 2025 1st (again top-14 protected), which becomes an unprotected 2026 first if it does not convey. Good punt to increase future value, as long as Miami is a lottery team this year. Miami picked Jaime Jaquez, now a rotation player for them, though who's to say OKC would have drafted as well as that at #18.
- 2023 LAC swap rights: not conveyed
- 2024 LAC 1st (#26): traded to Dallas on deadline day 2024 for rights to swap 1sts with Dallas in 2028
- 2025 LAC swap rights: likely to convey around #20ish
- 2026 LAC 1st: likely to convey (unprotected); they owe PHI the least-favorable of OKC, LAC and HOU [5-30].

Instead, they have mostly been rearranging deckchairs and punting value into the future. Other disposals / punts of their assets:

- Jul 2019: As part of the Chris Paul / Westbrook trade (Which got them HOU's 2024 + 2026 1sts [prot 1-4] and 2021 + 2025 swap rights [prot 1-20]), acquired Houston's 2024 1st (#12); ultimately drafted Nikola Topic, the hottest prospect out of Red Star in Serbia, who had torn his ACL in April and will miss the entire 2024-25 NBA season. 2021 swap rights did not convey (HOU drafted at #2 so it was protected); 2025 swap rights will likely convey at the rate Houston is going, but not be used at the rate OKC is going; and 2026 HOU 1st [5-30] may stay or may go to PHI, per the terms of the Dec 2020 Al Horford trade.
- Jun 2023: Acquired Cason Wallace from Dallas in the Dereck Lively swap, in exchange for the least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that then they held (ultimately sent out their own #29, while keeping UTA #10 and HOU #12 and later shipping out LAC #26), which ended up going to Indiana as part of a 4-team deal.
- in the same trade, sent out a 2024 2nd (least-favorable of MIN and CHA, of which they held both), in exchange for what will probably be the 2027 Denver 1st (top-5 protected), which is a good-value move for OKC
- Feb 2024: Acquired pick-swap rights with Dallas for their 2028 1st, in exchange for the second-least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that they then held (ultimately sent out LAC #26, while keeping UTA #10, HOU #12, and having already committed OKC #29). Dallas then sent that pick to the Wizards for Gafford.

They also own, just for first rounders:

- All their own picks, except where they're sending out the least-favorable of several owned picks, which seems likelier to be their own.
- PHI 2025 1st [7-30] -> PHI 2026 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 2nd
- UTA 2025 1st [11-30] -> UTA 2026 1st [9-30]
- MIA 2025 1st [15-30] -> MIA 2026 1st [unprot]
- DEN 2027 [6-30] or later if DEN conveys their pick to ORL later than 2025 (Aaron Gordon trade); could convey anytime 2027-2030, or if not then 2030 2nd
- DAL 2028 swap rights, as noted

And here's my point: even despite the fact that they have room the next few years to take on a big salary or two for an upgrade, and that they clearly have the draft-pick assets to entice another team to part with a star, they have not done so. Clearly, it is harder than we realize to find a good fit with current personnel and to use those draft picks to bring them in, while staying clear of apron-related penalties of the new CBA. As best I can discern, Presti's strategy with their 1st-rounders is to either make the pick if they think it could be an impact player (like they did with Nikola Topic), or otherwise ship it out for future draft rights down the road, playing the odds that it will become a high-value pick. It hasn't involved cashing in these chips to bring in a big name.

Now, Brooklyn has an easier path to upgrading their roster than OKC does, since Brooklyn has very few players they definitely want to keep in the first place (maybe just Cam Thomas; I'm sure Claxton and Cam Johnson are available for the right deal). But to do so, they need some sort of star-player firesale to happen, where they can come in with the top bid. Something like a Lillard/Giannis breakup in Milwaukee (not happening on current evidence), or a Fox/Sabonis breakup in Sacramento - something where they can get a star who's young enough to grow into a key role on a contender in a few years' time. Barring that, they need to go from "lots of assets" to "fewer GREAT assets" and somehow come up with top picks and hit on them. And that's easier said than done.


* Miami was motivated to do the deal because the rollover provisions on the 2023 pick (in order to do their 2019 Jimmy Butler trade) had encumbered their ability to trade picks from 2022-2026, and so this freed up several picks for trades.
Wow. What a post. I'm a Thunder fan who pays attention to the team but I couldn't have posted this without some serious research. Thank you so much!
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
33,561
Man, that just seems insane if you don't have an asset-management genius like Presti sitting on top of that pile.

Like, as an instructive example, consider what OKC did to build their current contender, where the key value came from:

- SGA: Paul George trade, unloading a superstar on end of his all-NBA-level years, identifying and getting the next superstar while also picking up 4.5 first-rounders and 2 pick swaps, because Kawhi had the Clippers over a barrel
- J-Dub: Selected #12 in 2022 using one of the Paul George picks
- Chet: Selected #2 in 2022 using their own draft pick because the 21-22 Thunder had tanked (went from 4th to #2 in the lottery)
- Dort: Signed as a two-way player in 2019, converted to standard contract in summer 2020, signed an above-MLE deal in summer 2022 for 4 years + team option
- Cason Wallace: 2023 Draft-night swap where Dallas sent them #10 (Wallace) + Davis Bertans for #12 (Lively) + a late 1st
- Hartenstein: Signed as an FA using cap room

None of that involved OKC shipping out any of their major draft assets (other than Paul George himself, whose trade was the source of most of them, of course), and only one of them has brought them any value when actually used (J-Dub). Their use of the Paul George picks has been as follows:

- 2021 Miami 1st (#18), originally traded in 2015 (!) by Miami to 3 other teams before LAC sent to OKC: selected Tre Mann, who was then traded on deadline day 2024 along with two 2nd-rounders for the corpse of Gordon Hayward
- 2022 LAC 1st (#12): selected J-Dub, clearly an important pillar of the roster
- 2023 Miami 1st (#18), top-14 protected: Traded back to Miami in Feb 2024* in exchange for their 2025 1st (again top-14 protected), which becomes an unprotected 2026 first if it does not convey. Good punt to increase future value, as long as Miami is a lottery team this year. Miami picked Jaime Jaquez, now a rotation player for them, though who's to say OKC would have drafted as well as that at #18.
- 2023 LAC swap rights: not conveyed
- 2024 LAC 1st (#26): traded to Dallas on deadline day 2024 for rights to swap 1sts with Dallas in 2028
- 2025 LAC swap rights: likely to convey around #20ish
- 2026 LAC 1st: likely to convey (unprotected); they owe PHI the least-favorable of OKC, LAC and HOU [5-30].

Instead, they have mostly been rearranging deckchairs and punting value into the future. Other disposals / punts of their assets:

- Jul 2019: As part of the Chris Paul / Westbrook trade (Which got them HOU's 2024 + 2026 1sts [prot 1-4] and 2021 + 2025 swap rights [prot 1-20]), acquired Houston's 2024 1st (#12); ultimately drafted Nikola Topic, the hottest prospect out of Red Star in Serbia, who had torn his ACL in April and will miss the entire 2024-25 NBA season. 2021 swap rights did not convey (HOU drafted at #2 so it was protected); 2025 swap rights will likely convey at the rate Houston is going, but not be used at the rate OKC is going; and 2026 HOU 1st [5-30] may stay or may go to PHI, per the terms of the Dec 2020 Al Horford trade.
- Jun 2023: Acquired Cason Wallace from Dallas in the Dereck Lively swap, in exchange for the least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that then they held (ultimately sent out their own #29, while keeping UTA #10 and HOU #12 and later shipping out LAC #26), which ended up going to Indiana as part of a 4-team deal.
- in the same trade, sent out a 2024 2nd (least-favorable of MIN and CHA, of which they held both), in exchange for what will probably be the 2027 Denver 1st (top-5 protected), which is a good-value move for OKC
- Feb 2024: Acquired pick-swap rights with Dallas for their 2028 1st, in exchange for the second-least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that they then held (ultimately sent out LAC #26, while keeping UTA #10, HOU #12, and having already committed OKC #29). Dallas then sent that pick to the Wizards for Gafford.

They also own, just for first rounders:

- All their own picks, except where they're sending out the least-favorable of several owned picks, which seems likelier to be their own.
- PHI 2025 1st [7-30] -> PHI 2026 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 2nd
- UTA 2025 1st [11-30] -> UTA 2026 1st [9-30]
- MIA 2025 1st [15-30] -> MIA 2026 1st [unprot]
- DEN 2027 [6-30] or later if DEN conveys their pick to ORL later than 2025 (Aaron Gordon trade); could convey anytime 2027-2030, or if not then 2030 2nd
- DAL 2028 swap rights, as noted

And here's my point: even despite the fact that they have room the next few years to take on a big salary or two for an upgrade, and that they clearly have the draft-pick assets to entice another team to part with a star, they have not done so. Clearly, it is harder than we realize to find a good fit with current personnel and to use those draft picks to bring them in, while staying clear of apron-related penalties of the new CBA. As best I can discern, Presti's strategy with their 1st-rounders is to either make the pick if they think it could be an impact player (like they did with Nikola Topic), or otherwise ship it out for future draft rights down the road, playing the odds that it will become a high-value pick. It hasn't involved cashing in these chips to bring in a big name.

Now, Brooklyn has an easier path to upgrading their roster than OKC does, since Brooklyn has very few players they definitely want to keep in the first place (maybe just Cam Thomas; I'm sure Claxton and Cam Johnson are available for the right deal). But to do so, they need some sort of star-player firesale to happen, where they can come in with the top bid. Something like a Lillard/Giannis breakup in Milwaukee (not happening on current evidence), or a Fox/Sabonis breakup in Sacramento - something where they can get a star who's young enough to grow into a key role on a contender in a few years' time. Barring that, they need to go from "lots of assets" to "fewer GREAT assets" and somehow come up with top picks and hit on them. And that's easier said than done.


* Miami was motivated to do the deal because the rollover provisions on the 2023 pick (in order to do their 2019 Jimmy Butler trade) had encumbered their ability to trade picks from 2022-2026, and so this freed up several picks for trades.
Great post; thanks for laying it all out.

In addition to everything you say, the other issue when a team has all of these draft picks is figuring out who to keep and who to get rid of. Take HOU - lots of young talent and those guys need contract extensions. As this Forbes article points out - https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryantoporek/2024/12/27/the-houston-rockets-dont-need-to-rush-into-a-blockbuster-trade/ - while HOU has cap space now, both Smith and Eason are up for extensions this summer; Thompson is up next summer; and FVV has a $44.9M team option that I think will likely not be picked up but converted into a longer-term deal at a lower annual salary. Still, after Segun and Green's extension, HOU may find itself hard-pressed to extend all of their young guys or they might have to jettison FVV, who is important to the team. Hitting on decisions like these is what separates championship contenders from also-rans.

One other thing - I think it was Danny's dream to have JB and JT reach the level they reached and then be able to surround them with lots of cheap talent because they were good enough to lift up the entire team. Yes JB and JT are great but there's a reason that they needed proven guys like Jrue and KP to win the title. In this day and age, it is the super rare rookie that can contribute to a championship team. So maybe Presti thinks he can use draft picks to fill in once he figures out his core like POBOBS did by getting White, Jrue, and KP.
 

JCizzle

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Dec 11, 2006
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Checking the box score and seeing that Embiid is playing against a bad team always makes me laugh.
 

Tony C

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Seems like every time Kuminga has a good game his Arrival is proclaimed… and then he follows it up by laying an egg, as he did tonight.
 

128

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May 4, 2019
10,692
Several teams heating up in the oft-maligned East:

Knicks have won 9 of 10

Cavs have won 9 of 10

Sixers have won 8 of 10

Pacers have won 7 of 10

And then there's Toronto, the C's opponent today. The Raptors have lost 10 straight.
 
Last edited:

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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Man, that just seems insane if you don't have an asset-management genius like Presti sitting on top of that pile.

Like, as an instructive example, consider what OKC did to build their current contender, where the key value came from:

- SGA: Paul George trade, unloading a superstar on end of his all-NBA-level years, identifying and getting the next superstar while also picking up 4.5 first-rounders and 2 pick swaps, because Kawhi had the Clippers over a barrel
- J-Dub: Selected #12 in 2022 using one of the Paul George picks
- Chet: Selected #2 in 2022 using their own draft pick because the 21-22 Thunder had tanked (went from 4th to #2 in the lottery)
- Dort: Signed as a two-way player in 2019, converted to standard contract in summer 2020, signed an above-MLE deal in summer 2022 for 4 years + team option
- Cason Wallace: 2023 Draft-night swap where Dallas sent them #10 (Wallace) + Davis Bertans for #12 (Lively) + a late 1st
- Hartenstein: Signed as an FA using cap room

None of that involved OKC shipping out any of their major draft assets (other than Paul George himself, whose trade was the source of most of them, of course), and only one of them has brought them any value when actually used (J-Dub). Their use of the Paul George picks has been as follows:

- 2021 Miami 1st (#18), originally traded in 2015 (!) by Miami to 3 other teams before LAC sent to OKC: selected Tre Mann, who was then traded on deadline day 2024 along with two 2nd-rounders for the corpse of Gordon Hayward
- 2022 LAC 1st (#12): selected J-Dub, clearly an important pillar of the roster
- 2023 Miami 1st (#18), top-14 protected: Traded back to Miami in Feb 2024* in exchange for their 2025 1st (again top-14 protected), which becomes an unprotected 2026 first if it does not convey. Good punt to increase future value, as long as Miami is a lottery team this year. Miami picked Jaime Jaquez, now a rotation player for them, though who's to say OKC would have drafted as well as that at #18.
- 2023 LAC swap rights: not conveyed
- 2024 LAC 1st (#26): traded to Dallas on deadline day 2024 for rights to swap 1sts with Dallas in 2028
- 2025 LAC swap rights: likely to convey around #20ish
- 2026 LAC 1st: likely to convey (unprotected); they owe PHI the least-favorable of OKC, LAC and HOU [5-30].

Instead, they have mostly been rearranging deckchairs and punting value into the future. Other disposals / punts of their assets:

- Jul 2019: As part of the Chris Paul / Westbrook trade (Which got them HOU's 2024 + 2026 1sts [prot 1-4] and 2021 + 2025 swap rights [prot 1-20]), acquired Houston's 2024 1st (#12); ultimately drafted Nikola Topic, the hottest prospect out of Red Star in Serbia, who had torn his ACL in April and will miss the entire 2024-25 NBA season. 2021 swap rights did not convey (HOU drafted at #2 so it was protected); 2025 swap rights will likely convey at the rate Houston is going, but not be used at the rate OKC is going; and 2026 HOU 1st [5-30] may stay or may go to PHI, per the terms of the Dec 2020 Al Horford trade.
- Jun 2023: Acquired Cason Wallace from Dallas in the Dereck Lively swap, in exchange for the least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that then they held (ultimately sent out their own #29, while keeping UTA #10 and HOU #12 and later shipping out LAC #26), which ended up going to Indiana as part of a 4-team deal.
- in the same trade, sent out a 2024 2nd (least-favorable of MIN and CHA, of which they held both), in exchange for what will probably be the 2027 Denver 1st (top-5 protected), which is a good-value move for OKC
- Feb 2024: Acquired pick-swap rights with Dallas for their 2028 1st, in exchange for the second-least-favorable 2024 1st-rd pick out of the 4 that they then held (ultimately sent out LAC #26, while keeping UTA #10, HOU #12, and having already committed OKC #29). Dallas then sent that pick to the Wizards for Gafford.

They also own, just for first rounders:

- All their own picks, except where they're sending out the least-favorable of several owned picks, which seems likelier to be their own.
- PHI 2025 1st [7-30] -> PHI 2026 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 1st [5-30] -> PHI 2027 2nd
- UTA 2025 1st [11-30] -> UTA 2026 1st [9-30]
- MIA 2025 1st [15-30] -> MIA 2026 1st [unprot]
- DEN 2027 [6-30] or later if DEN conveys their pick to ORL later than 2025 (Aaron Gordon trade); could convey anytime 2027-2030, or if not then 2030 2nd
- DAL 2028 swap rights, as noted

And here's my point: even despite the fact that they have room the next few years to take on a big salary or two for an upgrade, and that they clearly have the draft-pick assets to entice another team to part with a star, they have not done so. Clearly, it is harder than we realize to find a good fit with current personnel and to use those draft picks to bring them in, while staying clear of apron-related penalties of the new CBA. As best I can discern, Presti's strategy with their 1st-rounders is to either make the pick if they think it could be an impact player (like they did with Nikola Topic), or otherwise ship it out for future draft rights down the road, playing the odds that it will become a high-value pick. It hasn't involved cashing in these chips to bring in a big name.

Now, Brooklyn has an easier path to upgrading their roster than OKC does, since Brooklyn has very few players they definitely want to keep in the first place (maybe just Cam Thomas; I'm sure Claxton and Cam Johnson are available for the right deal). But to do so, they need some sort of star-player firesale to happen, where they can come in with the top bid. Something like a Lillard/Giannis breakup in Milwaukee (not happening on current evidence), or a Fox/Sabonis breakup in Sacramento - something where they can get a star who's young enough to grow into a key role on a contender in a few years' time. Barring that, they need to go from "lots of assets" to "fewer GREAT assets" and somehow come up with top picks and hit on them. And that's easier said than done.


* Miami was motivated to do the deal because the rollover provisions on the 2023 pick (in order to do their 2019 Jimmy Butler trade) had encumbered their ability to trade picks from 2022-2026, and so this freed up several picks for trades.
One key difference between OKC and Brooklyn: Brooklyn plays in Brooklyn.

As you said, no one is available right now....but someone always comes available. When they do, the Nets can take more confident swings than OKC, because they can be more confident the guy will re-sign, and sometimes that can entice someone else to sign, ask for a trade, or convey enthusiasm to stay.

They did it once already in 2019 with far fewer assets, so I'm sure they feel like they can do it again.

Alternatively, they can go the 2015 Celtics route, where they start to draft and develop, see how it goes, and then decide whether to make the picks or not.

The other team in town gives a decent blueprint here: the Knicks accumulated draft picks, got lucky when Brunson wanted to sign, and then started spending picks+players aggressively-but-not-insanely to acquire OG, Bridges, and KAT in quick succession.

tldr; Presti has a specific set of monetary and signability constraints that arise from being in OKC, and NYK/BRK can play a different game with accumulated picks.
 

jon abbey

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Several teams heating up in the oft-maligned East:

Knicks have won 9 of 10

Cavs have won 9 of 10

Sixers have won 8 of 10

Pacers have won 7 of 10

And then there's Toronto, the C's opponent today. The Raptors have lost 10 straight.
Cavs are 28-4, they have been red hot all season.

Knicks are 18-4 now after a 5-6 start, and they’re still getting used to each other and should only get better, if they stay healthy obv.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Cavs are 28-4, they have been red hot all season.

Knicks are 18-4 now after a 5-6 start, and they’re still getting used to each other and should only get better, if they stay healthy obv.
If you stick around long enough you will be given reasons these records are illusion. Even the Sixers, whom some here had in the lottery, are 8-2 in their last 10 games (this forum's team is .500 - maybe they will be in the lottery!). We like to MTM teams seasons in real time but *we* just aren't very good at it.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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According to this NYP article, NYK have played easiest schedule by opponent's record.

Schedule definitely toughens up. They play OKC twice on 1.3 and 1.10 and then they play 3 games in 4 days - MIL (1.12), DET (1.13), and PHI (1.15). And then post-ASB, their schedule is this:

Thu, Feb 20
Chicago Bulls
Fri, Feb 21
@​
Cleveland Cavaliers
Sun, Feb 23
@​
Boston Celtics
Wed, Feb 26
Philadelphia 76ers
Fri, Feb 28
@​
Memphis Grizzlies
Sun, Mar 2
@​
Miami Heat
Tue, Mar 4
Golden State Warriors
Thu, Mar 6
@​
Los Angeles Lakers
Fri, Mar 7
@​
Los Angeles Clippers
Mon, Mar 10
@​
Sacramento Kings
Wed, Mar 12
@​
Portland Trail Blazers
Sat, Mar 15
@​
Golden State Warriors
Mon, Mar 17
Miami Heat
Wed, Mar 19
@​
San Antonio Spurs
Thu, Mar 20
@​
Charlotte Hornets
 

jon abbey

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According to this NYP article, NYK have played easiest schedule by opponent's record.

Schedule definitely toughens up. They play OKC twice on 1.3 and 1.10 and then they play 3 games in 4 days - MIL (1.12), DET (1.13), and PHI (1.15). And then post-ASB, their schedule is this:

Thu, Feb 20
Chicago Bulls
Fri, Feb 21
@​
Cleveland Cavaliers
Sun, Feb 23
@​
Boston Celtics
Wed, Feb 26
Philadelphia 76ers
Fri, Feb 28
@​
Memphis Grizzlies
Sun, Mar 2
@​
Miami Heat
Tue, Mar 4
Golden State Warriors
Thu, Mar 6
@​
Los Angeles Lakers
Fri, Mar 7
@​
Los Angeles Clippers
Mon, Mar 10
@​
Sacramento Kings
Wed, Mar 12
@​
Portland Trail Blazers
Sat, Mar 15
@​
Golden State Warriors
Mon, Mar 17
Miami Heat
Wed, Mar 19
@​
San Antonio Spurs
Thu, Mar 20
@​
Charlotte Hornets
Yeah, their schedule gets much harder later in the season, but before then, from Jan 6-Feb 3, they have 14 games. 12 of those are at home, 1 is in Brooklyn, 1 is in Philly, so basically they have an entire month with no real travel.
 

HomeRunBaker

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DFS is sub-0 DPM, and -1 O-DPM on DARKO. He's just not that good, 3 point % notwithstanding. He also has a $15M player option next year.

Freeing up that salary next season, plus getting 3 2nds, is a quite solid deal for the Nets, and definitely not "helping" LA in any sense beyond teams getting helped whenever they are fine to trade some assets for a player.
I have DFS as one of the more overrated players in the league. Having said that he is a “fit” guy who was never going to look good on a lottery team. He’ll have a chance to slide into the old KCP role in LA next to LeBron and AD plus his new coach LOVES him, and couldn’t stand DAR, which can only help him acclimate. Solid deal for the Lakers in shaping that team up better.
 

lovegtm

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I have DFS as one of the more overrated players in the league. Having said that he is a “fit” guy who was never going to look good on a lottery team. He’ll have a chance to slide into the old KCP role in LA next to LeBron and AD plus his new coach LOVES him, and couldn’t stand DAR, which can only help him acclimate. Solid deal for the Lakers in shaping that team up better.
Yup, I think he'll be fine with LAL, and they paid a non-trivial price to get him (some potentially quite good 2nds).
 

BigMike

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One key difference between OKC and Brooklyn: Brooklyn plays in Brooklyn.

As you said, no one is available right now....but someone always comes available. When they do, the Nets can take more confident swings than OKC, because they can be more confident the guy will re-sign, and sometimes that can entice someone else to sign, ask for a trade, or convey enthusiasm to stay.

They did it once already in 2019 with far fewer assets, so I'm sure they feel like they can do it again.

Alternatively, they can go the 2015 Celtics route, where they start to draft and develop, see how it goes, and then decide whether to make the picks or not.

The other team in town gives a decent blueprint here: the Knicks accumulated draft picks, got lucky when Brunson wanted to sign, and then started spending picks+players aggressively-but-not-insanely to acquire OG, Bridges, and KAT in quick succession.

tldr; Presti has a specific set of monetary and signability constraints that arise from being in OKC, and NYK/BRK can play a different game with accumulated picks.
Well biggest constraint Presti has is he has 2 players 23 and under who will be top 30 players in the game, and will be paid like it on their next contract, so he has to deal with that, plus SGA who will become the highest paid player in basketball in 2 years.

OKC closes out the 3rd quarter tonight with a 36-10 run in 8:50 against Minny. Minny had a stretch of 15 possessions, that featured 10 TO and a shot blocked.
 

Euclis20

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Well biggest constraint Presti has is he has 2 players 23 and under who will be top 30 players in the game, and will be paid like it on their next contract, so he has to deal with that, plus SGA who will become the highest paid player in basketball in 2 years.

OKC closes out the 3rd quarter tonight with a 36-10 run in 8:50 against Minny. Minny had a stretch of 15 possessions, that featured 10 TO and a shot blocked.
Chet is a tough guy to value. When he plays he looks like a guy who will absolutely be top 30...but he's had two major injuries in his first three years and he's got the frame of a guy who can't be relied on to stay on the court (complicating things even more, in between major injuries he somehow played all 82 games last year). He's played just 92 games, and he's got just one more year on his rookie deal.
 

jon abbey

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The East has been gradually closing the gap with the West after a dreadful overall start, now they are just a collective 11 games under .500 (pretty sure it was over 30 early on).
 

BigMike

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Chet is a tough guy to value. When he plays he looks like a guy who will absolutely be top 30...but he's had two major injuries in his first three years and he's got the frame of a guy who can't be relied on to stay on the court (complicating things even more, in between major injuries he somehow played all 82 games last year). He's played just 92 games, and he's got just one more year on his rookie deal.
Well, barring a debilitating injury between now and when he signs his next deal he will get a max extension
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting article on January strength of schedule (based on oppo winning %) here: NBA Storylines: January's strength of schedule rankings | NBA.com.

Top 5 hardest? HOU, SAS, OKC, DEN, and IND.

Top 5 easiest? MIL, CHI, PHO, NO, and LAL.

BOS is 16 hardest (Oppo Winning %= .501/ 3 B2Bs / 6 home; 10 road).
NYK is 11 hardest (Oppo Winning %= .516/ 3 B2Bs / 11 home; 4 road)

January could be an important month for the tanking teams as NOP has 2 games against each of WAS and UT and WAS plays both UT and TOR.
 

Euclis20

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View: https://twitter.com/nbapr/status/1874878388026192043?s=46&t=ewYMSuiVooy3RaQTShVJiA


Lamelo showing up on top is the big surprise, he's more like Brad Beal on the wizards than a guy who deserves to start, but whatever. His style is perfect for the all star game, and there isn't an obviously deserving 2nd guard after Mitchell.

The East front court is perfect, as are the West guards (pending a reasonable return to health for Luka). LeBron starting over wemby is an understandable travesty.
 

Euclis20

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Sam Adams better start putting a stamped all-star ballot in every case. 10th for DWhite isn't going to get it done.
Even with what appears to be a relatively weak EC backcourt, White is gonna have a really hard time. Tatum and Brown are both strong all-stars for a Celtics team that hasn’t played nearly as well as last year (we were 1st by 2.5 games on January 1, as opposed to 2nd by 5 games) and while White has been good it’s hard to make the case that Boston deserves three all-stars. The travesty will be if Lillard passes Mitchell, I didn’t initially realize how close they are.
 

Euclis20

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Pretty weak showing so far from "Next MJ" Anthony Edwards.
The national media can keep wagging their chins at Tatum not being the face of the league, but he’s 1st in votes among Americans. If you ignore the LeBron/Durant/Curry old guard, he’s first among American’s by a mile, nearly 300k more votes than KAT and nearly 400k more votes than AD, neither of whom are in the conversation for biggest American name.

The only way that Edwards gets into that conversation (I count 13 Americans with more votes than Ant) is by winning, a lot. It’s not just about the market (how does one explain Lamelo), most people just don’t give a shit about Edwards yet. It’s hard to blame what‘s happening with the Wolves on him so far, but other than making huge jumps in 3PA and 3P%, his game has definitely stagnated. He’s shooting over 40 points worse from 2 and he’s taking far fewer FTs per game. Combine that and his TS% is exactly the same as last year, and his advanced stats (never great to start with) are decidedly worse than last year.
 

JCizzle

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Watching Embiid play defense in a playoff setting might be interesting. Dude looks so disinterested at times.
 

Euclis20

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I kind of like his honesty even if it shows a lack of maturity to an extent. I'm sure Tatum thought the same thing when he was 23, all these guys want to score.
Honesty is nice I guess, but this is some really whiny shit and not what you want from a leader. Remember a couple of years ago when booker complained about being doubled in a scrimmage over the summer, and everyone made fun of him for it? This is 100x wise.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I kind of like his honesty even if it shows a lack of maturity to an extent. I'm sure Tatum thought the same thing when he was 23, all these guys want to score.
This may be one of those things where Tatum’s situation was just very different than a lot of hyped young players getting drafted by bad teams, he come into a roster that already has Kyrie, Horford, theoretically Gordon Hayward, another hyped young player in Brown, etc., he wasn’t asked to be the leading scorer from day one, I’m sure that had some impact on how his outlook developed.

But what’s interesting is that Ant’s assist numbers aren’t even that bad. They’re down a little this year (3.9 per game) but he averaged 5.1 assists per game last year, which is more than Tatum ever averaged in a season until this year, where he’s sitting at 5.5 currently. Both guys also step it up in the playoffs, 6.3 per game last year for Tatum in the postseason, 6.5 per game for Ant.
 

jon abbey

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KAT creates so much space for his teammates in the halfcourt, maybe we all overrated Ant a little.
 

Euclis20

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Hard to know what to make of the bucks, after a loss tonight to Brooklyn. They did win the IST and pulled themselves out of an early hole, tied for 5th in the east. Giannis is leading the league in ppg and while I know field goal % isn't that great of a stat (it's the basketball equivalent of batting average), it is more than a bit remarkable that giannis hasn't shot below 50% in a single game all year.

On the other hand, they seem utterly incapable of beating good teams (IST final which doesn't even count aside). They've played just 3 games against the WC (the fewest in the league) and they are 0-7 against the Cavs, Celtics and Knicks.
 

Ed Hillel

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Hard to know what to make of the bucks, after a loss tonight to Brooklyn. They did win the IST and pulled themselves out of an early hole, tied for 5th in the east. Giannis is leading the league in ppg and while I know field goal % isn't that great of a stat (it's the basketball equivalent of batting average), it is more than a bit remarkable that giannis hasn't shot below 50% in a single game all year.

On the other hand, they seem utterly incapable of beating good teams (IST final which doesn't even count aside). They've played just 3 games against the WC (the fewest in the league) and they are 0-7 against the Cavs, Celtics and Knicks.
Their exterior defense is just terrible, so they will continue to lose to teams that can shoot.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hard to know what to make of the bucks, after a loss tonight to Brooklyn. They did win the IST and pulled themselves out of an early hole, tied for 5th in the east. Giannis is leading the league in ppg and while I know field goal % isn't that great of a stat (it's the basketball equivalent of batting average), it is more than a bit remarkable that giannis hasn't shot below 50% in a single game all year.

On the other hand, they seem utterly incapable of beating good teams (IST final which doesn't even count aside). They've played just 3 games against the WC (the fewest in the league) and they are 0-7 against the Cavs, Celtics and Knicks.
That record is misleading. They lost one to the Cavs on a buzzer beater, had a lead in the final min of another vs Cleveland, had a late 4Q lead against Boston and was only at full strength for one of those games I believe. A healthy Middleton takes this team from pretty good to real good. I think people around here discount the Bucks because, similar to Dallas, we are a real bad matchup for them so we don’t view them as a threat to us.
 

Euclis20

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That record is misleading. They lost one to the Cavs on a buzzer beater, had a lead in the final min of another vs Cleveland, had a late 4Q lead against Boston and was only at full strength for one of those games I believe. A healthy Middleton takes this team from pretty good to real good. I think people around here discount the Bucks because, similar to Dallas, we are a real bad matchup for them so we don’t view them as a threat to us.
It's not just Celtics fans that discount the bucks. They've got possibly the league mvp, a solid supporting all star, a decent group of experienced role players, a coach with title experience, and they are still just 7th in current title odds, right between Dallas and Phoenix. On one of his last podcasts with espn, zach lowe talked about how he had spoke to nba execs and insiders all over the league, looking for someone who was still bullish on the bucks, and couldn't find any takers. Most of the league has been out on the bucks since they crashed and burned last spring. You can say it was just because giannis was hurt (windhorst), but they only won 49 games with him being mostly healthy, plus he's missed playoffs games to injury in 4 of the last 5 seasons - he's not exactly Embiid out there, but at some point "they'll be better when he's healthy next year" just doesn't make sense. Counting on health from middleton makes even less sense at this point.
 

tims4wins

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Fun night - Bucks lose at home to the Nets with Giannis and Dame playing, Sixers get their doors blown off with their big 3, and Ant's rant.
 

lovegtm

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I like Jimmy. "I probably can't find my joy here" is a good way around the no public trade request rules.
 

tims4wins

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Ant is so, so concerned about his image. "I don't want to look like I'm not as good as I am". Ironic as the Sprite spokesperson. Guess he's never seen the "image is nothing" series of commercials.