TNT has been behind the curve of making viewers less knowledgeable. They have a ways to go to catch ESPN, but it's a start.
General Celtics thread: 24-25 edition
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
- Start date
Ten years ago, fwiw. As always, Hubie knows best.
usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2015/06/12/three-pointers-finals-warriors-cavaliers-stephen-curry-klay-thompson-steve-kerr-mike-miller/71148178/
Well maybe it did but at the end of the day, they specifically agreed to move these guys so they could continue doing the games. Gives them some leeway to continue, well, doing what they are doing.
Why didn't the Celtics foul Ant immediately after the inbound on the last play? The Celts were up 3 and the wolves were in the bonus.
I could see Joe being concerned that the foul might result in 3 freethrows if the inbound play was a catch and shoot situation, but Ant caught the pass running the sideline in the opposite direction of his basket. Catch and shoot was not a possibility.
Joe is really good at knowing when to foul in order to give 2 freethrows instead of a 3 point shot, so I'm assuming I'm missing something here.
I could see Joe being concerned that the foul might result in 3 freethrows if the inbound play was a catch and shoot situation, but Ant caught the pass running the sideline in the opposite direction of his basket. Catch and shoot was not a possibility.
Joe is really good at knowing when to foul in order to give 2 freethrows instead of a 3 point shot, so I'm assuming I'm missing something here.
Before Tatum had his chance to take a swipe Horford could have fouled him right away after the inbound. And then Payton had ample opportunity but tried to defend him straight up. I think PP not fouling would be a big talking point today if Ant had made that three.
But I love the narrative circulating today of Ant coming up small against Tatum so I'll take this outcome.
Tatum's tech from last night has been rescinded.
https://x.com/NBAOfficial/status/1875244737479020811?t=gENvjdnXu-CJIgLxxcVziQ&s=19
https://x.com/NBAOfficial/status/1875244737479020811?t=gENvjdnXu-CJIgLxxcVziQ&s=19
Clownshow league. What if Ant had made the 3 and the Celts lost in OT? Would they give the W to the Celts? Ha.
Currently on a 60 win pace despite some non-major injuries and clearly loafing a bit.
I think the start to the season has been fine, though the Cavs being this good for this long obviously bears monitoring.
The #1 seed is definitely up for grabs.
The issue is fouling when it is certain that the offensive player isn’t going to rise up and shoot. I think the various Cs who were playing defense decided to be conservative after what Fox did the other night (foul leading to ; point play and a loss). Ant’s too good at just rising up if he feels contact.
Tatum, Pritchard and White all leveling up - and not just scoring for any of them - has made this team even more dangerous. Pritchard, in particular, has been such a welcome development and gives Mazzulla a lot more options, especially when he needs to get others rest.
Also, how the hell do you defend this team?
Also, how the hell do you defend this team?
I suspect the answer is something like: have OKC’s personnel. Good size and athleticism at every position makes them very switchable and without any particular matchup that is particularly worrying (other than JT against Hartenstein, but that’s the case for every big in the league). Get up into Tatum as he seems less inclined to drive every trip down during the regular season. Then probably try to force a way to make Jrue a playmaker as it’s the least bad option.
And then still have to hope they miss a bunch of 3s.
Should be a very fun game in a couple days. Hope everyone is healthy and ready to go.
And then still have to hope they miss a bunch of 3s.
Should be a very fun game in a couple days. Hope everyone is healthy and ready to go.
I hope Boston is fully healthy for the OKC game, because that's the one. If OKC doesn't have a solution to Boston's offense, no one does. They have the exact personnel and scheme needed, and they're historically great on that end overall.
That doesn't mean Boston can't be beat: players get hurt, teams get hot, and Boston can go cold. But there hasn't been a structural defensive solution to their offense yet.
It's pretty interesting that they've mostly learned to do this without KP, too. It used to be that you could just switch everything, but they have learned non-KP answers for that too, now.
Celtics are up to -2.16 without either Tatum or Jaylen on the court, and it’s +0.58 with garbage time filtered out.
On CTG they’re now +9.5 when Tatum sits, and +11.6 when Jaylen sits.
On CTG they’re now +9.5 when Tatum sits, and +11.6 when Jaylen sits.
Last year, the Celtics top 6 missed a total of 84 games. This year through 35 games they have missed 46. Most of that is obviously KP.
Cs competing for all-time best NBA road point differential (see below).
Good CsBlog article on some of the fans who made the trek to HOU to watch Cs, and JT's statement about his responsibility to play on the road: https://www.celticsblog.com/2025/1/5/24335558/boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-road-records-fans-houston-rockets-kristaps-porzingis.
View: https://twitter.com/DickLipe/status/1875396324834865492
Good CsBlog article on some of the fans who made the trek to HOU to watch Cs, and JT's statement about his responsibility to play on the road: https://www.celticsblog.com/2025/1/5/24335558/boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-road-records-fans-houston-rockets-kristaps-porzingis.
“Especially going to the west coast, I understand the following that we have as a team, I understand the following that I have individually, seeing all those people with Tatum '0' jerseys and shirts, and people having my shoes,” Tatum said.
“Kids might’ve gotten these tickets for their birthdays or Christmas, knowing that’s the only time I get to come in town. That’s why I never want to miss road games, that’s why I understand the importance of playing in front of fans, especially on the road. I love going on the road. I love playing in front of different crowds and seeing all the support that we have around the country.”
View: https://twitter.com/DickLipe/status/1875396324834865492
Luck tends to balance out year over year. The Celtics well above average health last season was one of the primary reasons I didn't expect them to have another outrageous regular season with our lack of deep depth. We still haven't been hit as hard as some others and if I had to guess I'd say many of our games missed were more of extra precaution than a real injury.....Tatum's knee, Jrue's shoulder, even KP. Who knows what's going on with Hauser's back too.
Love that piece. Another Noa special. Hottest talent in Boston media right now.
I love Lipe's work. Naturally. But it should be said the Lakers played for some reason 38 road games rather than 41 that season, not quite sure why and couldn't find as much. It isn't a scheduling quirk either since they played 82 regular season games. So let's make this a bit more pro-Celtics: If you're looking at just pure net point differential as counting (as opposed to rate) in the regular season, the record is also held by the aforementioned 1971-72 Lakers team at +430.
But also: The Celtics entering today are on pace for a +479.1875. Not only that but from a wider league POV, OKC is also set to break this Laker record this season, at an on-pace number currently at +435.625.
According to BRef, 1971-72 LAL played 3 games at "neutral" sites: 2.13.72 v Bullets @ Cole Field House (win); 2.23.72 v Rockets @ Heart O' Texas Coliseum in Waco (loss); and 3.1.72 v MIL @ Dane County Veteran Memorial Coliseum in Madison, WI (win).
This article says that MIL played several games during that time period at Dane Coliseum due to scheduling conflicts. I presume the same was true for the other teams. We've come a long way.
So, OKC held the Celtics to 27 points in the seocnd half.
The Celtics, at full strength, played this game to win. KP played his best game since last season.
OKC, missing one of their best players (Holmgren) and one of the best defensive guards in the league (Caruso), just dominated the Celtics during the second half. I think you could probably count on on hand the number of clean offensive possessions the Celtics had during the last 18 minutes of the game.
The Celtics defense remained very good for almost all of the game, but when OKC turned up the defensive intensity on the Celtics, the Celtics just fell apart, and the game gradually went from Celtics missing shots to Celtics turning the ball over repeatedly, to, at the very end, Celtics making defensive lapses.
The only good thing the Celtics can take from this game is how good KP looked individually. The bad thing is how awful they were in spite of that.
The Celtics, at full strength, played this game to win. KP played his best game since last season.
OKC, missing one of their best players (Holmgren) and one of the best defensive guards in the league (Caruso), just dominated the Celtics during the second half. I think you could probably count on on hand the number of clean offensive possessions the Celtics had during the last 18 minutes of the game.
The Celtics defense remained very good for almost all of the game, but when OKC turned up the defensive intensity on the Celtics, the Celtics just fell apart, and the game gradually went from Celtics missing shots to Celtics turning the ball over repeatedly, to, at the very end, Celtics making defensive lapses.
The only good thing the Celtics can take from this game is how good KP looked individually. The bad thing is how awful they were in spite of that.
The Thunder sold out on Tatum, and everyone else was fluke cold in the second half.
Jaylen 0-7
White 0-4
Jrue 0-2
KP 2-7
PP 0-4
Hauser? 0-2
Tatum was 4-11, 9 FT’s though.
I do not think that second half would go that way often lol. The Thunder are an elite team, but nothing I saw today makes me feel any differently about them than I did going in.
Jaylen 0-7
White 0-4
Jrue 0-2
KP 2-7
PP 0-4
Hauser? 0-2
Tatum was 4-11, 9 FT’s though.
I do not think that second half would go that way often lol. The Thunder are an elite team, but nothing I saw today makes me feel any differently about them than I did going in.
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That's alot of words to say they missed 3s.
If they shoot 10 points off there season average they win the game.
The only team that should be concerned is OKC who were only up 6 with 1:30 left.
I agree with your main point but I didn’t see them selling out on Tatum. Tatum drove into the teeth of the defense, which often results going into traffic. Brown did the same thing
Yeah, C's aren't going to beat many teams when they're 9 for 46 from long range.
Neither team should be concerned. It was a fun January game. The Celtics shot like shit and the Thunder were missing some guys. I hope these two meet in the finals. Should be a fun series.
They hard trapped Tatum on pretty much every single PnR of the game, except for one where he hit a deep three in the second half.
It was the Thunder using the old Heat strategy, including the hard fouling lol.
Of course , never give the opposition credit for anything . OKC, was missing their 3rd 7th, and 9th best players.
the Celtics played great in the first half, they took advantages of mismatches, and played poor Isiah joe off the court (he was absolutely abused all half)
Can't really read anything out of this game other than as said above, if they played in June it would be one hell of a series.
I posted this in the game thread, but it's worth repeating: The 19.6% Boston shot from 3 is their worst in a single game in the Mazzulla era, have to go back to March 2022 to find a worse performance.
OKC's defense will cause major problems with their ability jump passing lanes, how comfortable they are in rotation and how many above average defenders they have (touch to hunt mismatches, outside of Tatum on Hartenstein) but their offense against a team that can limit turnovers and play good average half-court defense is basically "pray SGA has it going." No real complaints about the Celtics defense, as much as it feels like SGA got whatever he wanted, it was basically an average game for him. I'd be cautiously optimistic were I Boston, but I'm very curious to see how Chet fits in. Obviously he provides another scoring boost, but I don't know that he and Hartenstein can play together against Boston in crunch time, and without IH, they struggle to get rebounds.
OKC's defense will cause major problems with their ability jump passing lanes, how comfortable they are in rotation and how many above average defenders they have (touch to hunt mismatches, outside of Tatum on Hartenstein) but their offense against a team that can limit turnovers and play good average half-court defense is basically "pray SGA has it going." No real complaints about the Celtics defense, as much as it feels like SGA got whatever he wanted, it was basically an average game for him. I'd be cautiously optimistic were I Boston, but I'm very curious to see how Chet fits in. Obviously he provides another scoring boost, but I don't know that he and Hartenstein can play together against Boston in crunch time, and without IH, they struggle to get rebounds.
It'd be interesting to see some numbers on shot quality. I didn't see the game but just read the game thread and it seemed the consensus was that C's were getting good looks but missing. Did that change in the 2nd half?
The shots weren't quite as wide open as they usually are, but the Celtics have long made a living out of hitting difficult 3s, and they just couldn't in the 2nd half (or in the 1st half, but it got a lot worse). 1-13 in the 3rd quarter, 2-10 in the 4th, that's 3-23 combined (13%). Even if those were all off the dribble and highly contested, I'd expect Boston to make at least twice as many of them (and they missed a ton of really good looks).
Yup. The best takeaway for OKC (even more than the actual win, since it seems like they're gonna have the 1 seed locked up by early March regardless) is that Boston really couldn't slow down SGA, but I don't think they have enough other creators for it to matter. The wheels came off late in the 4th quarter, but with even average 3 point shooting this is a blowout well before that point.
I don’t believe some of the takes I have seen.
Jaylen, White, Jrue, PP, and Hauser had 0 points on 0-18 shooting in the second half, many being relatively open threes.
KP had 7 points on 2-7 shooting, and Tatum had 15 on 4-11 shooting.
That’s just such an insane fucking fluke, man lol.
People need everything to be a morality play, so they add on these insane narratives.
Going into the game, I was extremely worried about whether Oklahoma City could limit Boston's shot quality, and they just weren't able to. Their vaunted defense is extremely attackable.
This reminds me a lot of the first Denver game last year, where if you watch the last five minutes, Boston got really good looks, and nothing went in: from layup, three-point mid-range, and everyone turned it into this narrative about how Denver was unstoppable.
The more interesting thing, to me, is that in the 1st half OKC tried the Hardwood Paroxym strategy of taking away 3s and forcing 2s, and got utterly brutalized.
In the 2nd half, they abandoned that to give up 3s.
There is not a solution for Boston's offense except "hope they miss."
In the 2nd half, they abandoned that to give up 3s.
There is not a solution for Boston's offense except "hope they miss."
From a process perspective, I don't think there were many positives for OKC from this game. They don't have the personnel to play Boston straight up, and Boston was able to figure out how to make SGA work after giving up layups/FTs to him on every early possession.
That was Playoff Heat defense, which is a good strategy when playing the C's
KP is supposed to be the cheat code when that happens. In the First Half he was posting, then he stopped in the 2nd half.
ALSO neither Brown or Jrue picked up full or played physical on-ball defense. Not great.
The Juggernauts Dynastic run is alive & well...The Wolves are all geared up for them.
Teams can play zone and wish for shot luck to go their way against the Celtics. Yes, many times KP is going to be the cheat code that breaks that strategy. But fluky games happen; playing that strategy an entire playoff series is a different story. Miami won some games, in part due to shooting variance, but that was never the entire story over the entire series.
Well, Coach Joe has some teachable film moments for everyone.
Anyway, pull off the upset in the altitude of Denver, and a 3-1 road trip is another notch on the belt.
It's never fun to watch, but they learn more from games like this than 20-30pt blowout wins.
That's kind of what the regular season is for the Celtics now, finding points of weakness (3pt variance is out of their control to a certain degree but there was other stuff)
The funny thing is, OKC's 1st half strategy was more geared to find new points of weakness in Boston than the 2nd half was.
They explicitly tried to play the Celtics straight up, not overhelp, and limit 2-on-1 3s.
They got completely smoked, even though Boston shot poorly from 3; were lucky to be within 10 in their own building at the half.
From a process perspective, I thought the Celtics handled a possible point of weakness really well; they surprised me to the upside.