General Celtics thread: 24-25 edition

[Jimbodandy]

Fwiw, I thought that Zarba's crew was pretty good overall. A bit of home cooking, but let them play.

This one was a great. This Wolves team was in the conference finals last year (of course the trade happened), it was on their home court, everyone gets up for the champs, whole Wolves roster was healthy. KP out, JB late scratch.

Defense was a bit out of sorts without JB and more Hauser, but the effort and intensity was there. On offense the ball movement and screen game was fucking solid. Good looks pretty much all night.

Early January wins aren't ever must win, but it was nice to see the good guys meet the energy, stay within themselves, and finish this shit.

 

[TaiwanManny]

Celts could have put this away earlier but seemed to miss their last 5 of 6 shots.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

1. Minnesota shot 21-39 from three and 20-22 from the line, versus Boston's 22-57 from three and 4-6 from the line. That's why this was even a game at all.

2. Boston turned the ball over only 4 times to Minnesota's 16, including 13 stocks to Minnesota's 3, which is how Minnesota ould be beaten despite the greast shooting night. Both teams shot 50% from the floor, but Boston got 18 more shots up.

3. Tatum had it all going at different points in this game. He had a 7-10, 16-point third quarter to keep Minnesota from fully erasing the Celtics lead and then had 3 huge assists to Horford, White, and Queta when Minnesota started throwing the kitchen sink at him. Only blemish is that he missed a couple of shots late that would have iced it intead of giving Edwards a chance to tie at the buzzer, which he missed.

View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1875007704302850152


4. White hit some crazy shots in the 4th, scoring 13 of his 26, including a three he took off the dribble on what looked like a busted play and one he banked in to (almost) ice the game.

5. Edwards was largely held in check in this one, hitting 5-16 for 15 points and missing the potential tying 3 at the buzzer. Scal kept talking about how the Celtics defenders were hanging on Edwards' left hand, forcing him away from that, and it caused him to struggle. My brother had a different take on it - he thought the Celtics defenders were steering Edwards towards help and it was that and not a dependence on his left hand that was messing him up. John Karalis had a third explanation, which is that 23-year old Edwards doesn't yet have the maturity to take what the defensive gives him.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2025/01/03/karalis-anthony-edwards-jayson-tatum-and-the-maturity-necessary-to-be-a-winner

But by the time the Target Center doors were locked, the story of this game was maturity versus immaturity. It was about a young superstar who learned the game is bigger than himself, and a younger one who is miles away from figuring that out.

Tatum took 27 shots, 17 of them from 3, on his way to a 33-point night that made Edwards jealous. Edwards only scored 15, shooting 16 times in the face of tight Boston defense and occasional double-teams. After the game, as Tatum was spreading the credit around, Edwards sat at his locker and ranted about how much he hates passing to his teammates.

“That was a good brand of basketball, but it’s not how I want to play,” Edwards said when he was asked about the third quarter where Minnesota out-scored Boston 34-29 with him racking up five assists but no points. “I mean, I’m only 23. I don’t want to just be passing the ball all night … but the way that they guarded me, I think that I had to.”

Edwards admits that it was good basketball, but he doesn’t want to play good basketball. He wants to play Anthony Edwards basketball first, and then good basketball if he has to. He is, of course, only 23.

That's way too young to realize that passing the ball to your teammates and having them score a bunch is the best way to prevent double teams.

That's way too young to accept that being the team’s best player comes with responsibilities besides getting yours.

That's way too young to understand that you’re just announcing to every other team that the best way to frustrate you is do exactly what the Celtics just did.

Asked how hard it was to stay engaged during this defensive plan, he said “Super hard. Super hard. Super hard. Super hard. I mean, because I’m wired to score the ball. … I don't know if, like, their plan is like, let's mentally take him out, but because they don't, like, take me all the way out the game, but it definitely frustrates me a little bit.”

6. I don't usually criticized Joe's rotation's but I thought he missed something in this one. After the first quarter was over, Minnesota was up 7, and the Celtics responded in the second by blowing Minnesota out, 34-16. A lot of that was the play of Nemias Queta, who did not have huge numbers but filled the "energy big" role perfeclty. He played nearly the whole quarter (11:18) and was a +15, while Gobert was -11 in 9 minutes. Despite this, Joe did not go back to Queta until the 4th quarter, and the Celtics ended up losing the third.

View: https://twitter.com/PortalQueta/status/1874994996178468977

 

[tims4wins]

Ant talked shit on Tatum then proceeded to switch off him every possession while Tatum locked him down on the other end. I figured Ant’s act would end pretty quickly, but social media seems to finally be turning on him.

Examples?

 

[tims4wins]

1. Minnesota shot 21-39 from three and 20-22 from the line, versus Boston's 22-57 from three and 4-6 from the line. That's why this was even a game at all.

2. Boston turned the ball over only 4 times to Minnesota's 16, including 13 stocks to Minnesota's 3, which is how Minnesota ould be beaten despite the greast shooting night. Both teams shot 50% from the floor, but Boston got 18 more shots up.

3. Tatum had it all going at different points in this game. He had a 7-10, 16-point third quarter to keep Minnesota from fully erasing the Celtics lead and then had 3 huge assists to Horford, White, and Queta when Minnesota started throwing the kitchen sink at him. Only blemish is that he missed a couple of shots late that would have iced it intead of giving Edwards a chance to tie at the buzzer, which he missed.

View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1875007704302850152


4. White hit some crazy shots in the 4th, scoring 13 of his 26, including a three he took off the dribble on what looked like a busted play and one he banked in to (almost) ice the game.

5. Edwards was largely held in check in this one, hitting 5-16 for 15 points and missing the potential tying 3 at the buzzer. Scal kept talking about how the Celtics defenders were hanging on Edwards' left hand, forcing him away from that, and it caused him to struggle. My brother had a different take on it - he thought the Celtics defenders were steering Edwards towards help and it was that and not a dependence on his left hand that was messing him up. John Karalis had a third explanation, which is that 23-year old Edwards doesn't yet have the maturity to take what the defensive gives him.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2025/01/03/karalis-anthony-edwards-jayson-tatum-and-the-maturity-necessary-to-be-a-winner





6. I don't usually criticized Joe's rotation's but I thought he missed something in this one. After the first quarter was over, Minnesota was up 7, and the Celtics responded in the second by blowing Minnesota out, 34-16. A lot of that was the play of Nemias Queta, who did not have huge numbers but filled the "energy big" role perfeclty. He played nearly the whole quarter (11:18) and was a +15, while Gobert was -11 in 9 minutes. Despite this, Joe did not go back to Queta until the 4th quarter, and the Celtics ended up losing the third.

View: https://twitter.com/PortalQueta/status/1874994996178468977

Wow that is awful from Ant. AWFUL.

 

[Van Everyman]

This was pretty funny from Ant tho:

“It’s hard to beat two NBA players, you know what I mean?” Edwards said. “These dudes are NBA players. It’s not like high school or middle school. These dudes, 6-8, 6-9, long, strong, athletic. Then they funnel me to the dude who’s 8 feet tall at the rim. It’s crazy.”

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

5. Edwards was largely held in check in this one, hitting 5-16 for 15 points and missing the potential tying 3 at the buzzer. Scal kept talking about how the Celtics defenders were hanging on Edwards' left hand, forcing him away from that, and it caused him to struggle. My brother had a different take on it - he thought the Celtics defenders were steering Edwards towards help and it was that and not a dependence on his left hand that was messing him up.

I'll just say that whether Scal is correct or incorrect about the reason why BOS was forcing him away from the left, y'all are lucky you can hear him because that's not the kind of analysis you'd hear many (any) other color commentators make.

Scal is usually pretty astute about scouting players. He watches a ton of games and I'm sure talks to people about tendancies.

 

[lovegtm]

I'll just say that whether Scal is correct or incorrect about the reason why BOS was forcing him away from the left, y'all are lucky you can hear him because that's not the kind of analysis you'd hear many (any) other color commentators make.

Scal is usually pretty astute about scouting players. He watches a ton of games and I'm sure talks to people about tendancies.

Yeah, I think it was sort of both as a scheme: they were forcing him away from the left, and then were ready to send help when he took advantage of that. They also were pretty aggressive with real doubles and late help.

Whining about that is insane: every elite NBA player, since the dawn of time, has faced doubles. Your subsequent career is determined by whether you can make teams play for that.

Re "he's only 23": Tatum had to learn to deal with hard doubles when he was 21 (2019-20), and by age 23 was leading a team that almost won the Finals.

Ant is a mental child with an entitled, loser attitude.

 

[SteveF]

Edwards has the same issue with his game that many young scorers have -- they think their job is to score points when their job is to create shots for themselves -- and more importantly -- for others. A catch and shoot from a role player is probably a better shot (mathematically speaking, divorced of context/psychology/pressure) than an off the dribble shot from a star, especially given how the talent level of those role players has improved so much in the present day NBA.

Tatum had the exact same problem as a younger player, and he slowly figured it out. Ant seems a little (Edit: well, probably a lot) less mature generally, but I suspect he'll figure it out eventually too.

 

[benhogan]

I'll just say that whether Scal is correct or incorrect about the reason why BOS was forcing him away from the left, y'all are lucky you can hear him because that's not the kind of analysis you'd hear many (any) other color commentators make.

Scal is usually pretty astute about scouting players. He watches a ton of games and I'm sure talks to people about tendancies.

I was stuck with Stan's incessant whining about the NUMBER OF 3s! SVG's idea of preparation was to have every players 3pt % over the last 2 games (which is next to worthless). The only thing worse was the analysis by the TNT Halftime Show.

Scal (& Drew) are excellent, especially compared to the rest of the national NBA Media.

Holiday was overplaying Ant's left hand, but they were also funneling Ant into KornQ or Horford at the rim.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

View: https://twitter.com/AdamTaylorNBA/status/1875142726766760434

 

[CreightonGubanich]

What a contrast between Anthony Edwards and Jayson Tatum. Like, I get that it's frustrating, no one wants the game taken out of their hands. But teams played JT like that all the time, including in last years' playoffs. Ant doesn't have a Jaylen Brown on his team, but I don't know that it would make a difference if he did. Ant looked disengaged last night. When teams played JT that way, he used the opportunity to become a better playmaker; not just passing out of the double team, but learning to manipulate it so that the defense couldn't recover and close down the 4-on-3. He's a better player because of it.

Reminds me of this game from 2017: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19167326/paul-george-indiana-pacers-upset-take-final-shot-game-1-loss-cleveland-cavaliers

It was so clear then that you had one player who was trying to act like a great player, doing the things he thought great players needed to do, and one who was a great player and didn't need to prove it to anyone. I'm glad we have the second guy.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Tatum asked to defend Ant before the game, and held him to 2-5 shooting over 25 possessions. White defended him second most and held him scoreless over 12 possessions.

Against Ant you just need to be very disciplined, and hope he misses his pull-ups.

 

[tims4wins]

What a contrast between Anthony Edwards and Jayson Tatum. Like, I get that it's frustrating, no one wants the game taken out of their hands. But teams played JT like that all the time, including in last years' playoffs. Ant doesn't have a Jaylen Brown on his team, but I don't know that it would make a difference if he did. Ant looked disengaged last night. When teams played JT that way, he used the opportunity to become a better playmaker; not just passing out of the double team, but learning to manipulate it so that the defense couldn't recover and close down the 4-on-3. He's a better player because of it.

Reminds me of this game from 2017: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19167326/paul-george-indiana-pacers-upset-take-final-shot-game-1-loss-cleveland-cavaliers

It was so clear then that you had one player who was trying to act like a great player, doing the things he thought great players needed to do, and one who was a great player and didn't need to prove it to anyone. I'm glad we have the second guy.

Props to Lebron for this quote

"I can only speak for myself. When you're doubling me, I'm giving it up. That's me," James said. "I don't know how everybody else feels about that, but if you get a double, I think we all know math in here: There's two guys on the ball, and that means there's a 4-on-3. You have your numbers. So if you're the best player on the floor, that doesn't mean you have to take the shot. I think he made the right play, and you live with the results."

 

[CreightonGubanich]

Props to Lebron for this quote

"I can only speak for myself. When you're doubling me, I'm giving it up. That's me," James said. "I don't know how everybody else feels about that, but if you get a double, I think we all know math in here: There's two guys on the ball, and that means there's a 4-on-3. You have your numbers. So if you're the best player on the floor, that doesn't mean you have to take the shot. I think he made the right play, and you live with the results."

It's one of my favorite basketball quotes. James often comes off as not particularly self aware, but that was both really honest and insightful without throwing Paul George under the bus. And LeBron has played that way his entire career.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Tatum's processing with the ball in his hands is unreal. And to t4w's post above, he is the closest thing in the league right now to LeBron. He'll never have LBJ's pure explosion (he'd have been the easy #1 pick and would've been an all-time prospect if he did) but his assessment of a defense and ability to make the right play—patiently—over and over again in the face of doubles all night is exactly the kind of thing that has made LBJ unguardable for most of his career.

I suspect one of the things he realized under Mazzulla-ball and in winning the title is that while playing like that may put a heavier mental load on him via a much wider decision tree, it is much less physically-demanding than trying to undress a defender 1v1 20+ times a game. LeBron obviously learned that lesson well because he's 40 and still amazing.

 

[lovegtm]

View: https://twitter.com/AdamTaylorNBA/status/1875142726766760434

They hammered Queta on a lob late, Gobert shoved him in the lane with two hands on another...the refs simply didn't call Minnesota fouls on Boston for the most part, even egregious ones.

FT disparity sometimes just reflects play style, but in this game it was indicative of some ridiculously one-way officiating. And I rarely complain about officiating.

Minnesota got dominated in that game pretty hard, and shooting variance + fouls hid it imo.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

I was stuck with Stan's incessant whining about the NUMBER OF 3s! SVG's idea of preparation was to have every players 3pt % over the last 2 games (which is next to worthless). The only thing worse was the analysis by the TNT Halftime Show.

Scal (& Drew) are excellent, especially compared to the rest of the national NBA Media.

Holiday was overplaying Ant's left hand, but they were also funneling Ant into KornQ or Horford at the rim.

I think it was @mostman who said that Drew unlocked Scal and while that may sound like slandering Mike, who really was truly great, it really isn't. Fundamentally, Gorman and Scal were too similar — both complete basketball nerds who spent their time watching basketball, talking to players, being in the basketball business.

Drew is a media professional who spends his time online, reading about all the other narratives out there and thinking about how to craft narratives out of the Celtics play he sees in front of him. He doesn't just look at stats (Scal is not amazing, but is pretty good at keeping up with what the advanced stats people are doing), he thinks about how the stats will be talked about.

During the broadcast, Drew brings all of the online narrative to Scal — who often says things like, "what, people are saying that?" — in a way that allows Scal to analyze things for us that he wouldn't have otherwise thought to explain. It's even gotten to the point where Scal will ask Drew what he knows about players that Scal doesn't know about, expecting Drew to have done all the narrative research so Scal can plug into it.

In describing the action, no one was or will be better than Mike. But for today's broadcast, having Drew in there to place the game in context is such a great complement to the analytical skills that Scal is acquiring (I think he's still actively getting better, understanding that he needs to up his game if he wants to get into the next echelon of commentators, which he's knocking on the door of).

 

[128]

They hammered Queta on a lob late, Gobert shoved him in the lane with two hands on another...the refs simply didn't call Minnesota fouls on Boston for the most part, even egregious ones.

FT disparity sometimes just reflects play style, but in this game it was indicative of some ridiculously one-way officiating. And I rarely complain about officiating.

Minnesota got dominated in that game pretty hard, and shooting variance + fouls hid it imo.

I had to work last nite, so I was late to the game, but I'm still shaking my head over the foul called on Jrue when DD jumped into him on Minnesota's penultimate possession.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Refs consistently swallow their whistle in favor of whatever team is down late in a game, and teams know to take advantage of it. When you take into account how physical defensively the Wolves are just in general, that’ll lead to some ridiculous no calls lol.

 

[lovegtm]

Refs consistently swallow their whistle in favor of whatever team is down late in a game, and teams know to take advantage of it. When you take into account how physical defensively the Wolves are just in general, that’ll lead to some ridiculous no calls lol.

I guess? I watch a lot of NBA games, and this one was particularly bad in terms of the whistle disparity at the end. Usually it's more like "swallow the whistle", not "take a game that was over and just call fouls one direction for 1-2 full minutes."

 

[lovegtm]

Anyway, it's a regular season game, they won, and had a good blueprint for dominating a team like Minnesota, including neutralizing Gobert by having Tatum pull him out to dance on the perimeter. Not losing any sleep over this one, and should probably just enjoy the fun game and good result.

 

[tims4wins]

The one were DD went straight through Queta on a rebound attempt was ridiculous

 

[CreightonGubanich]

I think it was @mostman who said that Drew unlocked Scal and while that may sound like slandering Mike, who really was truly great, it really isn't. Fundamentally, Gorman and Scal were too similar — both complete basketball nerds who spent their time watching basketball, talking to players, being in the basketball business.

Drew is a media professional who spends his time online, reading about all the other narratives out there and thinking about how to craft narratives out of the Celtics play he sees in front of him. He doesn't just look at stats (Scal is not amazing, but is pretty good at keeping up with what the advanced stats people are doing), he thinks about how the stats will be talked about.

During the broadcast, Drew brings all of the online narrative to Scal — who often says things like, "what, people are saying that?" — in a way that allows Scal to analyze things for us that he wouldn't have otherwise thought to explain. It's even gotten to the point where Scal will ask Drew what he knows about players that Scal doesn't know about, expecting Drew to have done all the narrative research so Scal can plug into it.

In describing the action, no one was or will be better than Mike. But for today's broadcast, having Drew in there to place the game in context is such a great complement to the analytical skills that Scal is acquiring (I think he's still actively getting better, understanding that he needs to up his game if he wants to get into the next echelon of commentators, which he's knocking on the door of).

This is well said. Mike Gorman is my favorite play-by-play guy ever, full stop. I'll always prefer his style over someone like Drew, but Drew has really impressed me. He's fun and schticky but he's in on the joke and doesn't take himself too seriously. His chemistry with Scal really works for me. I can't help but laugh when he pulls out a "Pritch better have my money!".

 

[RorschachsMask]

I guess? I watch a lot of NBA games, and this one was particularly bad in terms of the whistle disparity at the end. Usually it's more like "swallow the whistle", not "take a game that was over and just call fouls one direction for 1-2 full minutes."

I agree lol, that’s what I was saying. Wolves knew they could get away with it, and were way over the top physical, and refs didn’t budge.

That was an amazing win, being super short handed on the road, and there being the ref disparity.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

View: https://twitter.com/AdamTaylorNBA/status/1875142726766760434

Glad they didn't call it as it lead to an easy Horford layup.

Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com

 

[Strike4]

Tatum's processing with the ball in his hands is unreal. And to t4w's post above, he is the closest thing in the league right now to LeBron. He'll never have LBJ's pure explosion (he'd have been the easy #1 pick and would've been an all-time prospect if he did) but his assessment of a defense and ability to make the right play—patiently—over and over again in the face of doubles all night is exactly the kind of thing that has made LBJ unguardable for most of his career.

I suspect one of the things he realized under Mazzulla-ball and in winning the title is that while playing like that may put a heavier mental load on him via a much wider decision tree, it is much less physically-demanding than trying to undress a defender 1v1 20+ times a game. LeBron obviously learned that lesson well because he's 40 and still amazing.

He's an incalculable asset because of this. We saw it in earnest in the playoffs last year when Tatum was double/triple teamed and he took on a facilitator role - and excelled at it. People take for granted how difficult it is for a player to do this AND be able to execute like Tatum does, across multiple roles. Everybody in the building saw it coming last night and Tatum posted up on some great defenders and scored almost every time.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

is such a great complement to the analytical skills that Scal is acquiring (I think he's still actively getting better, understanding that he needs to up his game if he wants to get into the next echelon of commentators, which he's knocking on the door of).

If it isn't obvious, I really like listening to Scal but I don't think he's going to get into the top tier of commentators, which is fine so long as he keep broadcasting Cs games for the time being. First of all, he's way too sarcastic. I'm also guessing that the "powers to be" probably will see him as being too critical of players when they do something wrong - particularly guys on other teams. Finally, not a lot of people want Scal to explain "ghost screens" or "SNAP" or other actions - just us sickos.

People would rather hear, "They've taken 14 shots and 13 of them are 3Ps."

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Yeah, I think it was sort of both as a scheme: they were forcing him away from the left, and then were ready to send help when he took advantage of that. They also were pretty aggressive with real doubles and late help.

Whining about that is insane: every elite NBA player, since the dawn of time, has faced doubles. Your subsequent career is determined by whether you can make teams play for that.

Re "he's only 23": Tatum had to learn to deal with hard doubles when he was 21 (2019-20), and by age 23 was leading a team that almost won the Finals.

Ant is a mental child with an entitled, loser attitude.

Echoing your thoughts, I thought the Cs defense was super interesting last night. They were a lot more aggressive in helping off the weak side - which is something I don't think we've seen a lot of, maybe that's just Joe not playing all of his defensive cards right now - and I thought their rotations were pretty good even if MIN shot well from 3P.

Also, they threw in their zone in the 2Q which helped (helped less in 4Q); their zone is interesting because it seems to be a zone until it isn't and I'm not sure when that changes - whether it's tied to the shot clock going down or Jrue just has the liberty to change it up and everyone else has to figure things out around him. When they run the zone with Jrue in the middle, it's kind of like a "box and Jrue," where Jrue just gets to do whatever he thinks is best. Must be weird to coach and even weirder to play against.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

People would rather hear, "They've taken 14 shots and 13 of them are 3Ps."

I happened to have the TNT feed on last night and despite both teams shooting >40% from three’s, obviously extremely efficient, most of the halftime talk from Charles and Shaq was about “settling for 3’s” and “taking too many 3’s” and “coaches are good when they go in and bad when they don’t” complete with the tone showing their distaste for this style of play…..and we wonder why the casual fan is hypercritical of adapting to a more efficient way to play NBA basketball. As someone who would love for casual fans to learn the game it was nauseating to hear these two influential guys make the viewers dumber.

 

[Saints Rest]

Echoing your thoughts, I thought the Cs defense was super interesting last night. They were a lot more aggressive in helping off the weak side - which is something I don't think we've seen a lot of, maybe that's just Joe not playing all of his defensive cards right now - and I thought their rotations were pretty good even if MIN shot well from 3P.

Also, they threw in their zone in the 2Q which helped (helped less in 4Q); their zone is interesting because it seems to be a zone until it isn't and I'm not sure when that changes - whether it's tied to the shot clock going down or Jrue just has the liberty to change it up and everyone else has to figure things out around him. When they run the zone with Jrue in the middle, it's kind of like a "box and Jrue," where Jrue just gets to do whatever he thinks is best. Must be weird to coach and even weirder to play against.

From what I’ve read in the past (ie last season), Mazzulla has placed the choice of when to go zone in Jrues hands.

For those of you who can watch more Celtics games than I, has the zone defense of late been coming out when Jrue is sitting?

 

[Jimbodandy]

I happened to have the TNT feed on last night and despite both teams shooting >40% from three’s, obviously extremely efficient, most of the halftime talk from Charles and Shaq was about “settling for 3’s” and “taking too many 3’s” and “coaches are good when they go in and bad when they don’t” complete with the tone showing their distaste for this style of play…..and we wonder why the casual fan is hypercritical of adapting to a more efficient way to play NBA basketball. As someone who would love for casual fans to learn the game it was nauseating to hear these two influential guys make the viewers dumber.

I don't know about teenagers, but my 21yo laughs off such commentary as oldhead. Like, he appreciates Chuck and Shaq and Kenny for their status and knowledge, being OGs and such. He grew up watching them. But I think that the kids see right through old people talk.

 

[mostman]

I think it was @mostman who said that Drew unlocked Scal and while that may sound like slandering Mike, who really was truly great, it really isn't. Fundamentally, Gorman and Scal were too similar — both complete basketball nerds who spent their time watching basketball, talking to players, being in the basketball business.

Drew is a media professional who spends his time online, reading about all the other narratives out there and thinking about how to craft narratives out of the Celtics play he sees in front of him. He doesn't just look at stats (Scal is not amazing, but is pretty good at keeping up with what the advanced stats people are doing), he thinks about how the stats will be talked about.

During the broadcast, Drew brings all of the online narrative to Scal — who often says things like, "what, people are saying that?" — in a way that allows Scal to analyze things for us that he wouldn't have otherwise thought to explain. It's even gotten to the point where Scal will ask Drew what he knows about players that Scal doesn't know about, expecting Drew to have done all the narrative research so Scal can plug into it.

In describing the action, no one was or will be better than Mike. But for today's broadcast, having Drew in there to place the game in context is such a great complement to the analytical skills that Scal is acquiring (I think he's still actively getting better, understanding that he needs to up his game if he wants to get into the next echelon of commentators, which he's knocking on the door of).

All of this, plus the age dynamic. Having Scal be the “old man” at the desk is a much better fit for his style.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

If it isn't obvious, I really like listening to Scal but I don't think he's going to get into the top tier of commentators, which is fine so long as he keep broadcasting Cs games for the time being. First of all, he's way too sarcastic. I'm also guessing that the "powers to be" probably will see him as being too critical of players when they do something wrong - particularly guys on other teams. Finally, not a lot of people want Scal to explain "ghost screens" or "SNAP" or other actions - just us sickos.

People would rather hear, "They've taken 14 shots and 13 of them are 3Ps."

Well, I mean he aspires to someone like JJ, who parlayed being critical and the ghost screens stuff into the biggest NBA podcast (maybe Lowe was bigger) and then a big chair at ESPN and then a job running the Lakers. With Lowe out, JJ out, there's a commentator vacuum that I think Scal is trying to fill. There's definitely a bit of "why is Perk getting that airtime instead of me" to his feud with Perk. He's started mentioning his Sirius show a lot more during the broadcast, which is smart, and hasn't been too heavy-handed about it. There was talk of a Scal Show this summer, but I don't know what happened that it didn't actually go forward.

I don't think Scal has anything close to JJ's charisma, I agree with you, but I think he has aspirations. I don't have Sirius so really have no idea if he's any good in a pod-like environment. I would kind of think not, but he's working on it.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

From what I’ve read in the past (ie last season), Mazzulla has placed the choice of when to go zone in Jrues hands.

For those of you who can watch more Celtics games than I, has the zone defense of late been coming out when Jrue is sitting?

Last night, they threw in the zone in the 2H when Jrue was sitting. It didn't get the same results (no causation implied).

 

[SteveF]

It looked more like a 3-2 in the second half -- kind of like what Miami does. I think generally the trigger to go to man is the ball breaking the foul line, but it could be more complicated than that.

A large part of the reason it was less effective in the 4th is that Gobert got played off the floor.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I don't know about teenagers, but my 21yo laughs off such commentary as oldhead. Like, he appreciates Chuck and Shaq and Kenny for their status and knowledge, being OGs and such. He grew up watching them. But I think that the kids see right through old people talk.

The kids may but the yelling and screaming of the NBA being nothing but "Chucking up 3's and playing no defense" is coming from all the others watching guys like Charles and Shaq. Kids who listen and then listen to their parents praise Charles and Shaq for talking about this are influenced too. It's bad for everyone to have these two otherwise likeable characters trashing the NBA game like this on the most popular NBA show there is.

 

[DGreenwood]

From what I’ve read in the past (ie last season), Mazzulla has placed the choice of when to go zone in Jrues hands.

For those of you who can watch more Celtics games than I, has the zone defense of late been coming out when Jrue is sitting?

I read something recently that said the focus on zone was (at least in part) a way to keep PP on the floor during times they couldn't allow the other team to just hunt a switch.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Well, I mean he aspires to someone like JJ, who parlayed being critical and the ghost screens stuff into the biggest NBA podcast (maybe Lowe was bigger) and then a big chair at ESPN and then a job running the Lakers. With Lowe out, JJ out, there's a commentator vacuum that I think Scal is trying to fill. There's definitely a bit of "why is Perk getting that airtime instead of me" to his feud with Perk. He's started mentioning his Sirius show a lot more during the broadcast, which is smart, and hasn't been too heavy-handed about it. There was talk of a Scal Show this summer, but I don't know what happened that it didn't actually go forward.

I don't think Scal has anything close to JJ's charisma, I agree with you, but I think he has aspirations. I don't have Sirius so really have no idea if he's any good in a pod-like environment. I would kind of think not, but he's working on it.

You think Scal wants to coach (honestly asking) - because I think JJ was pretty clear that's where he wanted to go eventually.

As for the broadcasting aspirations, not only does Reddick have more charisma than Scal, Scal also has a face for radio (and JJ had a face for TV). Scal should know that the only reason Perkins is on set for ESPN is because they can get him to say outrageous things - I get the sense that ESPN actually feeds some of this stuff to him. Scal is never going to do that (nor should he).

And I'm not being critical. I'd much rather hear Scal do color than SVG or Richard Jefferson or Jamal Crawford or Doris or really anyone I can think of off the top of my head (I'd have to hear more Legler) but I'd be shocked if he got there.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

It looked more like a 3-2 in the second half -- kind of like what Miami does. I think generally the trigger to go to man is the ball breaking the foul line, but it could be more complicated than that.

A large part of the reason it was less effective in the 4th is that Gobert got played off the floor.

I'm pretty sure it's something other than the ball breaking the foul line because I thought I saw at least a couple of instances where a MIN player cut down the lane and his defender stayed with him.

Of course, any zone that CJM runs I'm sure has a bunch of crazy principles so maybe we'll never find out until CJM spills the beans at a coaching clinic or what-not.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

You think Scal wants to coach (honestly asking) - because I think JJ was pretty clear that's where he wanted to go eventually.

As for the broadcasting aspirations, not only does Reddick have more charisma than Scal, Scal also has a face for radio (and JJ had a face for TV). Scal should know that the only reason Perkins is on set for ESPN is because they can get him to say outrageous things - I get the sense that ESPN actually feeds some of this stuff to him. Scal is never going to do that (nor should he).

And I'm not being critical. I'd much rather hear Scal do color than SVG or Richard Jefferson or Jamal Crawford or Doris or really anyone I can think of off the top of my head (I'd have to hear more Legler) but I'd be shocked if he got there.

I do think so. At least maybe. He talks about being called in by NBA teams to do workouts and draft evaluations, so he clearly sees himself as more than a media guy, and he talks sometimes about coaching AAU and the challenges that brings (how he has time to do that, I have no idea).

It would be a brutal transition to go from color commentary to back-bencher, but from color to first bencher might make sense? I don't really think he would coach college, but maybe? I think he feels like he could run a team and be successful sometimes from the way he talks. There's a lot of money in NBA coaching if you get one of those coveted spots... maybe he's already too far along for that. I dunno.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Also, came to say that this is really insightful stuff from Phil Pressey:

View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1875214286731219314


Maybe it sounds basic, but having a top executive who can drive culture all the way down to the bottom player is the ideal scenario. Not easy to do.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I do think so. At least maybe. He talks about being called in by NBA teams to do workouts and draft evaluations, so he clearly sees himself as more than a media guy, and he talks sometimes about coaching AAU and the challenges that brings (how he has time to do that, I have no idea).

It would be a brutal transition to go from color commentary to back-bencher, but from color to first bencher might make sense? I don't really think he would coach college, but maybe? I think he feels like he could run a team and be successful sometimes from the way he talks. There's a lot of money in NBA coaching if you get one of those coveted spots... maybe he's already too far along for that. I dunno.

Agree that he talks a lot about player evaluations. I wonder if Scal really wants to be a GM rather than a coach? It will be interesting to see if he goes anywhere from here.

Also, came to say that this is really insightful stuff from Phil Pressey:

View: https://twitter.com/celtics/status/1875214286731219314


Maybe it sounds basic, but having a top executive who can drive culture all the way down to the bottom player is the ideal scenario. Not easy to do.

Posted entire interview in the former Cs thread. Worth a listen if nothing else too pressing in going on in your life. I haven't finished it for full disclosure.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Kids who listen and then listen to their parents

Where do you find these kids?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Where do you find these kids?

Winner!!!!

 

[128]

The kids may but the yelling and screaming of the NBA being nothing but "Chucking up 3's and playing no defense" is coming from all the others watching guys like Charles and Shaq. Kids who listen and then listen to their parents praise Charles and Shaq for talking about this are influenced too. It's bad for everyone to have these two otherwise likeable characters trashing the NBA game like this on the most popular NBA show there is.

Well-said. Chuck and Shaq don't have to be cheerleaders, and plenty of NBA games deserve criticism, but their act is getting old. And I say that as someone who in general loves Barkley.

 

[lovegtm]

I happened to have the TNT feed on last night and despite both teams shooting >40% from three’s, obviously extremely efficient, most of the halftime talk from Charles and Shaq was about “settling for 3’s” and “taking too many 3’s” and “coaches are good when they go in and bad when they don’t” complete with the tone showing their distaste for this style of play…..and we wonder why the casual fan is hypercritical of adapting to a more efficient way to play NBA basketball. As someone who would love for casual fans to learn the game it was nauseating to hear these two influential guys make the viewers dumber.

It's insane that the NBA doesn't enforce message discipline with its broadcasting "partners."

I can't imagine the NFL allowing this.

 

[Jimbodandy]

The kids may but the yelling and screaming of the NBA being nothing but "Chucking up 3's and playing no defense" is coming from all the others watching guys like Charles and Shaq. Kids who listen and then listen to their parents praise Charles and Shaq for talking about this are influenced too. It's bad for everyone to have these two otherwise likeable characters trashing the NBA game like this on the most popular NBA show there is.

It's weird for sure, maybe disappointing. But like all of the baseball oldheads who spent 20 years lamenting "you should bunt more!", such thinking has largely gone the way of the dodo. I don't think that the TNT crew has enough gravitas to swing a generation of kids hard eating step back 3s and windmill dunks towards wishing for more meat shield post ball and elbow jumpers.

Where do you find these kids?

That's a fantastic point.

 

[Euclis20]

It's insane that the NBA doesn't enforce message discipline with its broadcasting "partners."

I can't imagine the NFL allowing this.

It was baffling. You’ve got a game between two good teams (with a recent history of playing close, exciting games), featuring the two brightest young American stars, and you’re complaining about how many 3s are being taken…after a half in which both teams shot over 40% from 3! They flat out don’t like where the league is right now, and unless you‘ve got the same viewpoint, it’s awful to watch.

 

[lovegtm]

It was baffling. You’ve got a game between two good teams (with a recent history of playing close, exciting games), featuring the two brightest young American stars, and you’re complaining about how many 3s are being taken…after a half in which both teams shot over 40% from 3! They flat out don’t like where the league is right now, and unless you‘ve got the same viewpoint, it’s awful to watch.

I'm just surprised that a league that just completed a round of extremely competitive bidding for its product didn't do a soft negotiation for "maybe promote that product you are falling over yourselves to pay for" with its broadcast partners.

Not super competent.