General Celtics thread: 24-25 edition

InstaFace

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The thing is, you ask the coaches what's most important and they keep saying defensive focus, that their offense depends on getting rebounds and transition opportunities from defense etc. maybe they're just lying to the journalists, but they're consistent on saying it.
 

lovegtm

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The thing is, you ask the coaches what's most important and they keep saying defensive focus, that their offense depends on getting rebounds and transition opportunities from defense etc. maybe they're just lying to the journalists, but they're consistent on saying it.
Yeah, I have a slightly non-consensus thesis about what they should key on, or do key on in practice. I feel very strongly that this team lives and dies based on its offensive execution, and that you can tell their level of focus within a couple minutes in a given game, when you see how intentional they are being about their offense.
 

128

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Fourth loss in six games for the Celtics, who have a tough West Coast trip on the horizon.
 

Euclis20

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Take away KP and Holiday and the Celtics no longer operate at a major talent edge over most playoff teams. Add in the typical regular season lack of urgency that will (expectedly) pop up at times for a team coming off a title, and this team is gonna have some difficult games against decent teams whenever the 3 pointers aren’t falling (29.6% tonight). I’ve got mild to serious worries about everyone on the roster below Tatum/Brown/White, but at the end of the day they’re close to locked into a top 3 seed no matter what (thank god for the lousy EC), and absent major injuries they’ll be heavily favored to get back to the finals.
 

reggiecleveland

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Take away KP and Holiday and the Celtics no longer operate at a major talent edge over most playoff teams. Add in the typical regular season lack of urgency that will (expectedly) pop up at times for a team coming off a title, and this team is gonna have some difficult games against decent teams whenever the 3 pointers aren’t falling (29.6% tonight). I’ve got mild to serious worries about everyone on the roster below Tatum/Brown/White, but at the end of the day they’re close to locked into a top 3 seed no matter what (thank god for the lousy EC), and absent major injuries they’ll be heavily favored to get back to the finals.
They will get worked by whoever comes out of the west if:
A. they don't get another big (I include KP, becasue they don't have him now, and haven't pretty much all year), Al can't be asked to be the guy anymore.
B. The defence doesn't get better.
 

128

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Take away KP and Holiday and the Celtics no longer operate at a major talent edge over most playoff teams. Add in the typical regular season lack of urgency that will (expectedly) pop up at times for a team coming off a title, and this team is gonna have some difficult games against decent teams whenever the 3 pointers aren’t falling (29.6% tonight). I’ve got mild to serious worries about everyone on the roster below Tatum/Brown/White, but at the end of the day they’re close to locked into a top 3 seed no matter what (thank god for the lousy EC), and absent major injuries they’ll be heavily favored to get back to the finals.
Heavily favored to get back to the ECF or the NBA Finals?
 

Eddie Jurak

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https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/12/30/karalis-celtics-know-how-to-fix-their-defensive-issues-they-just-have-to-want-to-do-it

“It’s kind of slipped over the last few games, our intensity,” Brown said. “Teams are pressuring us and being physical with us. We’ve got to do the same stuff back to them. We did some good stuff in spots, but just not enough.”

The Celtics can dispute this all they want, but their actions this season have been telling. Their attitude towards defense has been to play just enough to get by. On some nights, when the offense was humming, they could get away with none. On others, when the offense wasn’t quite there, they turned it up only as much as they had to. Sometimes Payton Pritchard had to rescue the offense. Other times Derrick White or Jrue Holiday had to go on hot streaks. But no matter who has had the hot hand, the defense has mostly been an afterthought.
 

Leon Trotsky

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Euclis20

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Heavily favored to get back to the ECF or the NBA Finals?
To get back to the finals. They are pretty clearly in a bad slump right now, yet at this moment are still slightly favored against the field (-105) to win the east per fan duel. The Knicks and Cavs are way behind at +450 and +550, respectively. If they play like this for the next 3 months (7-6 in December) those odds will shift, but I don't think that's likely.

They will get worked by whoever comes out of the west if:
A. they don't get another big (I include KP, becasue they don't have him now, and haven't pretty much all year), Al can't be asked to be the guy anymore.
B. The defence doesn't get better.
They aren't being dropped into the finals next week so I'm not worried about the defense (if they do make it back through the east that's a problem that will have worked itself out), but yes, the biggest problem is KP and Al. At this point it feels like we'll be lucky to have a healthy porzingis in the finals and will again be relying on Al. He might still be able to pull off 30+ minutes of great play in the finals with plenty of rest between games (and my favorite Horford playoff stat is that he's shooting .561 from 3 in 11 finals games), but there are some potentially ugly matchups out there.
 

128

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To get back to the finals. They are pretty clearly in a bad slump right now, yet at this moment are still slightly favored against the field (-105) to win the east per fan duel. The Knicks and Cavs are way behind at +450 and +550, respectively. If they play like this for the next 3 months (7-6 in December) those odds will shift, but I don't think that's likely.
Many posters here seem to be dismissing the Cavs in much the way a lot of NBA observers dismissed the Celtics last season. At full strength, Cleveland is going to be a really tough out, and it might well have home-court advantage throughout the playoffs.

The Knicks' lack of depth is likely to be an issue, but the Cavs are crazy deep.
 

Silverdude2167

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Many posters here seem to be dismissing the Cavs in much the way a lot of NBA observers dismissed the Celtics last season. At full strength, Cleveland is going to be a really tough out, and it might well have home-court advantage throughout the playoffs.

The Knicks' lack of depth is likely to be an issue, but the Cavs are crazy deep.
The Cavs have a defensive problem in a long series.
 

Euclis20

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Many posters here seem to be dismissing the Cavs in much the way a lot of NBA observers dismissed the Celtics last season. At full strength, Cleveland is going to be a really tough out, and it might well have home-court advantage throughout the playoffs.

The Knicks' lack of depth is likely to be an issue, but the Cavs are crazy deep.
None of the smart people were dismissing the Celtics last year, just the lazy national types or biased homers. The only real critiques of the 2024 Celtics were that they didn’t have a bonafide top 3 player (something that every other champ has had going back to the 2015 Warriors), and they hadn’t won the title in previous years despite being close. Tatum was top 10 at least and could elevate to top 5, and Boston had a TON of playoff experience.

This year’s Cavs don’t have a top 10 player, (let alone top 3) and they’ve got very little playoff experience. As a group they’ve won exactly one playoff series, and outside of Strus (who is at best their 5th most important player), literally none of their rotation players has even been to the conference finals. They aren’t overly young (like OKC or Memphis a few years ago), they just don’t have the experience. They could be a tough out, or they could fall apart early as often happens to teams with little experience.

If Cleveland finishes with 64 wins and Boston ends up with 55 and they face off in the conference finals, Boston will be heavily favored. I expect it to be reminiscent of when the 60 win Hawks faced the 53 win Cavs in the 2015 ECF. Even without Love and with Kyrie playing two games, the Cavs won easily.
 

benhogan

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None of the smart people were dismissing the Celtics last year, just the lazy national types or biased homers. The only real critiques of the 2024 Celtics were that they didn’t have a bonafide top 3 player (something that every other champ has had going back to the 2015 Warriors), and they hadn’t won the title in previous years despite being close. Tatum was top 10 at least and could elevate to top 5, and Boston had a TON of playoff experience.

This year’s Cavs don’t have a top 10 player, (let alone top 3) and they’ve got very little playoff experience. As a group they’ve won exactly one playoff series, and outside of Strus (who is at best their 5th most important player), literally none of their rotation players has even been to the conference finals. They aren’t overly young (like OKC or Memphis a few years ago), they just don’t have the experience. They could be a tough out, or they could fall apart early as often happens to teams with little experience.

If Cleveland finishes with 64 wins and Boston ends up with 55 and they face off in the conference finals, Boston will be heavily favored. I expect it to be reminiscent of when the 60 win Hawks faced the 53 win Cavs in the 2015 ECF. Even without Love and with Kyrie playing two games, the Cavs won easily.
Cleveland is very similar to those Horford Hawks and heaven help the CAVs if Max Strus is a TOP5 player for them (Kenny Atkinson won't be falling for the Strus Show).

Losses are never fun, especially in the moment, but these Celtics will grow from them.

Brad probably needs to add a bench WING (LW4 would come in handy about now) so they don't have to play Walsh/Petersen nonsense or go double BIG
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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None of the smart people were dismissing the Celtics last year, just the lazy national types or biased homers. The only real critiques of the 2024 Celtics were that they didn’t have a bonafide top 3 player (something that every other champ has had going back to the 2015 Warriors), and they hadn’t won the title in previous years despite being close. Tatum was top 10 at least and could elevate to top 5, and Boston had a TON of playoff experience.

This year’s Cavs don’t have a top 10 player, (let alone top 3) and they’ve got very little playoff experience. As a group they’ve won exactly one playoff series, and outside of Strus (who is at best their 5th most important player), literally none of their rotation players has even been to the conference finals. They aren’t overly young (like OKC or Memphis a few years ago), they just don’t have the experience. They could be a tough out, or they could fall apart early as often happens to teams with little experience.

If Cleveland finishes with 64 wins and Boston ends up with 55 and they face off in the conference finals, Boston will be heavily favored. I expect it to be reminiscent of when the 60 win Hawks faced the 53 win Cavs in the 2015 ECF. Even without Love and with Kyrie playing two games, the Cavs won easily.
Well, MVP ladder has Spida at #8 and I don't think that's some kind of outlier opinion. Dude's good. If Garland's defensive upgrade is real (definitely stronger than his depleted self from the end of last year), I think they're pretty similar to the Cs in a lot of ways and have made an upgrade in coaching. I agree that Cs would be favored, but I'd be on the edge of my seat.
 

Euclis20

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Well, MVP ladder has Spida at #8 and I don't think that's some kind of outlier opinion. Dude's good. If Garland's defensive upgrade is real (definitely stronger than his depleted self from the end of last year), I think they're pretty similar to the Cs in a lot of ways and have made an upgrade in coaching. I agree that Cs would be favored, but I'd be on the edge of my seat.
MVP rankings are pretty different from overall rankings. Brunson finished 6th in mvp voting last year, and I seen to remember the NBA mvp ladder having sabonis around 6th in their year end poll. The ringer's most recent ranking has him 14th which I think is both typical for him and extremely low for a top tier title contender.
 

lovegtm

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None of the smart people were dismissing the Celtics last year, just the lazy national types or biased homers. The only real critiques of the 2024 Celtics were that they didn’t have a bonafide top 3 player (something that every other champ has had going back to the 2015 Warriors), and they hadn’t won the title in previous years despite being close. Tatum was top 10 at least and could elevate to top 5, and Boston had a TON of playoff experience.

This year’s Cavs don’t have a top 10 player, (let alone top 3) and they’ve got very little playoff experience. As a group they’ve won exactly one playoff series, and outside of Strus (who is at best their 5th most important player), literally none of their rotation players has even been to the conference finals. They aren’t overly young (like OKC or Memphis a few years ago), they just don’t have the experience. They could be a tough out, or they could fall apart early as often happens to teams with little experience.

If Cleveland finishes with 64 wins and Boston ends up with 55 and they face off in the conference finals, Boston will be heavily favored. I expect it to be reminiscent of when the 60 win Hawks faced the 53 win Cavs in the 2015 ECF. Even without Love and with Kyrie playing two games, the Cavs won easily.
I guess I'm just higher on Mitchell and Garland as offensive centerpieces, especially in a modern (Boston-inspired) offensive system.

I also think Garland might hold up better on D this time around. He was able to frustrate Tatum some the last time the teams played.
 

lovegtm

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I'm trying to remember another recent NBA game where the coach just went zone the entire time (at least after sometime early in the 1st). Even Spo changes it up--that was ridiculous (and very fun).

The Celtics have really good/interesting zone personnel.
 

lovegtm

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Just that despite seeing some takes about how this team has played, their net rating is better this season than it was last.
I think the rest of the league is catching up more than last year, which makes it feel more precarious. Mazzulla has been an offensive innovator, and a couple teams are incorporating those ideas and becoming scary on that end (Cleveland and NYK, primarily, with Memphis taking the screening/non-PnR advantage creation to crazy places).

On the defensive side, OKC looks like it might have a formula that could cause Boston trouble, so those games will be interesting.

That said, we do forget quickly some of the freakouts last year:
- blown out by the Clippers
- beaten by LA with AD & LeBron sitting
- losing to OKC
- the 2 Denver games, after which the Nuggets were crowned repeat champions

There's a lot of season left to go (49 games!!), and Boston is also trying to innovate in that time, particularly with these massive doses of zone as a counter to how teams are getting into the paint against them, and to even further emphasize leaving low-volume shooters open above the break.
 

Ed Hillel

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2-2. I don’t think this team will really focus again on a consistent basis until after the ASB.

Somewhat concerning, Jrue says right shoulder issue hasn't fully healed and is "lingering," even if he thinks it is manageable.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2025/01/celtics-starter-explains-injury-that-could-linger-going-forward.html
Dude has played too much basketball with not enough rest for a guy his age the past 400 days or so. If he needs a minor surgery and is out 2-3 months or something, I hope they consider it now.
 

The Social Chair

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2 - 2. They win the first two, get blown out by OKC, and lose a close one down the stretch to Denver because of road trip fatigue and altitude.
 

InstaFace

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I'll be the pessimist and say 1-3. I think we beat Minnesota tomorrow, but general exhaustion, 3-point shooting issues and the continued absence of Porzingis, together probably leave us short against 3 of the best 5 western-conference teams playing at home. I wouldn't be surprised by any combination of results, though - I think we'll be focused but may just be worn out / jet-lagged.
 

benhogan

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Yeah that's not a good team that we beat, but it was utter humiliation from the jump, similar to Pacers 1 last Friday. When this team feels like stomping on someone, they just do.
When Jaylen Brown actively picks up the ball handler full court, the Celtics are the best team in the NBA.

JB can single-handedly grind most guards into the ground by Q4 with his physical pressure/length.

I hope he brings that on the road trip
 

JCizzle

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Still amazed at how quickly Tatum gets T’ed up compared to anyone else even resembling a star in the NBA. I’m fine with whatever approach, but officials should be somewhat consistent.
 

benhogan

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Queta and Luke did great work from the deep bench. We'll need them tomorrow night.

I'm sure Gobert getting completely ignored by his 4 teammates on offense will age well.
 

Ed Hillel

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Ant talked shit on Tatum then proceeded to switch off him every possession while Tatum locked him down on the other end. I figured Ant’s act would end pretty quickly, but social media seems to finally be turning on him.