Houston could hold us to 85 points too, from the looks of it.
The only issue is, watching their offense, we could hold them to 80 even if JB just stands at midcourt smoking a blunt while Houston has the ball.
General Celtics thread: 24-25 edition
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
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The only issue is, watching their offense, we could hold them to 80 even if JB just stands at midcourt smoking a blunt while Houston has the ball.
Agreed. The Knicks are probably better than Orlando overall but the matchups for them are a lot worse vs Celtics than for Orlando. We may be proven wrong, but a lot of us raised that question about the deal and until we see otherwise on the court, I think it continues to be a major question for NY.
The Bucks at least have legit great post defense as part of the tradeoff with Lopez (though I agree with you he will give up some perimeter stuff for sure).
So with the media running with this Ben Simmons to the Celtics talk what would an acquisition look like and what would his presence do on the floor as the odd man who won’t shoot three’s or would be simply be the Kornet/Queta replacement who don’t shoot threes anyway?
It’s not even realistically possible this season.
In theory, he’d be a monster as a short roll guy here.
We would certainly learn whether Mazz is just a coach or a cult leader. If he managed to get Simmons to start shooting again, we could start calling him Coach Koresh.
My binky! (Now that he's way undervalued).
He'd be a Kornet/Queta replacement.....honestly, he'd be a Tillman/Al replacement. He'd defend centers, switch everything (or hedge and rotate really well), and pass out of short roll and advantage situations a ton.
I'm super-optimistic on him as a small-ball center, but it has to be a next year thing because of the new buyout rules (I think).
People overrate how much Boston's system depends on 5-out. They're totally fine with 4 elite shooters around a playmaking, defensive big man.
Well his deal expires with the end of this season. He probably won't get many offers exceeding the minimum, or if so not by very much. For all we know, he might be open to a pitch from Brad of "We can rebuild you. We have the technology. And the coaching." And the allure of joining the 2-time defending champs - for all we know, it could work.
He would need to be a street FA signing for a vet min though - we couldn't even do an S&T with (say) Scheierman to give Ben a couple hundred k more money, as the second apron takes away S&Ts for us.
He would need to be a street FA signing for a vet min though - we couldn't even do an S&T with (say) Scheierman to give Ben a couple hundred k more money, as the second apron takes away S&Ts for us.
The odds Jrue gets dealt this summer are extremely high, so that opens up a number of options.
Even dumping Jrue wouldn't get us under the second apron, though, so although it would make our tax bill tolerable, it doesn't materially change the ways we could acquire a Ben Simmons. Like we couldn't even trade Jrue for him 1:1, because he's not under contract with a team, if he were he couldn't be traded for 6 months, and we can't S&T. That only changes if we dump Jrue and also have something else happen, like Horford retires or takes a near-minimum deal.
That’s what I understood then I’ve read like 5-6 places discuss it. I hate MSM more and more every day.
Basically correct. Well theoretically, the Cs could get Simmons in a two-team trade with BRK - if they gave up JB. So no realistic way.
And just to be clear, even if Ben gets bought out, he can't come to the Cs.
The problem with signing Ben as a minimum guy is one we've talked about with Lonnie Walker - if these guys pop, BOS doesn't have a path to re-sign them so they have to go play FA roulette again the year after.
Most of the fake trade proposals are published just to get clicks. They don't take the CBA and/or roster spots into account.
I think that anything that has a chance turns up here in the Port Cellar. Otherwise it's probably just click-bait.
Which is why Brad has tried to do 2-year deals or even option years with the minimums guys. His 3-year deal with Hauser upon promoting him from the G League in Feb 2022 was a masterstroke - 2 month audition on a 2-way, then full NBA contract for 3 months + 7 playoff cameos, then based on seeing he's for-real, gets and takes a 3 year deal (2 gt'd + team option) at the minimum. Security for Hauser, optionality for Brad at low cost.
Simmons wouldn't have to say yes to a 3-year deal, nevermind an option year, but I imagine he might take the Tillman 2-year fully-guaranteed plan. That way we get some value if he does pop (and would certainly be open to ripping up that second year to replace it with a longer, better deal if mutually interesting, and if we then had the payroll flexibility), and he isn't tied down too long or is taking too much risk on his side.
If Simmons came to the Celtics the other team should foul him on every possession. Simmons at the foul line vs the Celtics offense seems like an easy decision.
Nobody who isn't a complete sicko like Joe Mazzulla is going to order a hack-a-Simmons strategy in the regular season, but point taken that he'd be a liability at the line in the playoffs.
He's at around 60% this season, which is a career high by a small amount. That's not too far away from being equivalent with "playing defense against the 2024-25 Boston Celtics", since our ORTG is 121.3, aka 1.21 points per possession. So unless he falls off from that 60%, an opponent's edge from doing that instead of playing defense (and accumulating fouls for your players, too) feels pretty small.
He's at around 60% this season, which is a career high by a small amount. That's not too far away from being equivalent with "playing defense against the 2024-25 Boston Celtics", since our ORTG is 121.3, aka 1.21 points per possession. So unless he falls off from that 60%, an opponent's edge from doing that instead of playing defense (and accumulating fouls for your players, too) feels pretty small.
Is it possibly to be motivated to get over a phobia? What was interesting to me was what was said upthread about Simmons as a second unit/small ball 5 guy with his skillset.
I know it’s not being seriously discussed, but I really can’t believe simmons is being mentioned at all. He‘s not built for the pressure (mentally or physically), he’s afraid to even attempt shots at the basket (I know the Celtics system doesn’t require everyone to shoot 3s, but it does require players to take the opportunities they are given) he can’t stay on the court, there are serious questions around his attitude and effort, and despite his size he absolutely cannot defend centers (he’s not a rim protector, he prefers to defend on the perimeter, and nobody wants a guy with a bad back getting bodied by guys his 10-30 pounds bigger). I’d rather give more minutes to Drew Peterson in the hopes that he develops into a reserve who could potentially see time in the playoffs than rely on Ben Simmons for anything. Unless there’s a way for Simmons to give the Celtics tens of millions of dollars and get them out of tax hell, I don’t want him anywhere near this roster.
The guy doesn’t like basketball, he can’t stay healthy, and he’ll be 29 by the time we could sign him. Other than potentially rubbing it in the face of Nets and Sixers fans (which I totally get and appreciate), what’s the allure here? I feel like some of the discussion is ignoring the last 3+ years of him either being ass on the court or sitting on the bench in street clothes.
The guy doesn’t like basketball, he can’t stay healthy, and he’ll be 29 by the time we could sign him. Other than potentially rubbing it in the face of Nets and Sixers fans (which I totally get and appreciate), what’s the allure here? I feel like some of the discussion is ignoring the last 3+ years of him either being ass on the court or sitting on the bench in street clothes.
Feeling pretty comfortable with my take after tonight. When OKC stopped fully giving a shit about halfway through the 4th, Houston had 69 points.
Adding Simmons to a championship level team with incredible chemistry seems like a really bad idea. The guy has demonstrated over and over again how uncommitted he is to becoming a better basketball player. As mentioned above, fouling Simmons every possession would totally screw up Mazzullaball’s 3>2 philosophy.
No team is going to foul Simmons every time down the floor. And if they do, and Simmons only makes 50% of his free throws that is a huge win, for now Boston can take him out and they are in the bonus way earlier than expected
Exactly, "hack-a" is trickier to do with bench players, since teams can weight their minutes towards the start of the 2nd and 4th quarters, but be fine taking them out in crunchtime once it's the bonus.
This is particularly true for Boston, which likes to have high-impact starters like JB and KP play to nearly the end of the 1st and 3rd quarters.
It's not a hard thing to work rotations around, in practice.
I fell like there have been teams -- even old Celtics teams -- who are deep down thru #11 or 12, but that doesn't apply to this team. They are super-strong 1-8, but it falls off pretty quickly after that.
Kornet is 9, and then you have Queta/Tillman/Peterson. It's not just 1-8 (although I don't think Tillman belongs in that group).
The issue is that there's no shooting at 12-15 on the roster, and not much playmaking either, so everything looks horrible when you have to make an offense out of the garbage time guys.
Obviously it doesn't matter at all, just makes Boston's non-garbage-time-adjusted stats look a lot worse than they are.
9 being kornet
10 being queta
Idk - i am a kornet fan, but imo he's not a bad 3rd center or #9 on depth chart
10 being queta
Idk - i am a kornet fan, but imo he's not a bad 3rd center or #9 on depth chart
They could stand to upgrade deep wing depth at the deadline. Walsh, Tillman and Springer have proved to be expendable pieces if they wanted another legit shooter.
I’ve said it all season….our deep bench is really really bad and filled with guys who can’t play in this league right now. It’s a good thing we may never really need to go past 8-9 deep for more than a game.
We have the added benefit of two draft picks next season at #29 and #31 (Wizards) if the season were to end today. Waiting until the deadline will likely occur in case we need to add a piece due to injury. You don't want to use this capital to add a guard then a big goes down or adding a big and a guard goes down. If Brad could somehow flip these out-of-rotation contracts with our 1st (or possibly more depending on the player) for a contributor with 1-2 years control past this year you'd have to look at it being a Horford or Jrue minute-eater. There will be opportunities to expand our depth at the deadline and into next season.
I don't disagree, and I think their real playoff depth there is Brisset/Walker etc. vet FAs moreso than Walsh/Springer. Those guys are developmental---first choice is the prove worthy by April, but if not there's vet FA options as well. At least, that vet FA profile is the bar to clear on a trade----they may be able to do so, but given limited salary slots and trade assets it's not a sure thing they can/will.
It seems like the last few years Brad has basically given the spots to "potential" and then at the trade deadline, kept those who fit (Hauser, Queta, possibly Peterson) and swapped the rest away for other potential guys. He's picked up Dunn and swapped him away, presumably because he felt Pritchard to be a better long term fit.
So I'd expect Walsh to be given another year, Springer and Davidson (neither of whom seem to be long term fits) to be traded for more "potential".
So naturally Brad is gonna zag and pick an old vet up, right?
I love the idea of a roster upgrade but since the Cs can't combine salaries, who are the wings that would be an upgrade and will be available for a couple late first round picks and fit into the Springer ($4M), Tillman ($2.2M), or Walsh ($1.9M) salary slot?
It seems like anyone good enough and cheap enough from a salary standpoint would be worth more than the draft picks we have available to dangle.
Thibs just can’t help himself.
This is why those player polls always have him at the top of the list of coaches they don’t want to play for lol.
You can go to BRef and look at everyone making less than Spinger to see who is theoretically available: 2024-25 NBA Player Contracts | Basketball-Reference.com. As it turns out, there is not a lot available.
Javonte Green is probably available.
Of course, the easiest way for the Cs to upgrade (as mentioned above) is to trade Springer with draft capital and sign Brissy or LW4. Or Markelle Fultz.
Celtics having more wins in DC than the Wizards (3-2) is funny.
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10147483-celtics-have-more-wins-in-washington-dc-than-wizards-this-nba-season.amp.html
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10147483-celtics-have-more-wins-in-washington-dc-than-wizards-this-nba-season.amp.html
I just chuckled at the idea that somewhere HRB is fuming reading these posts.
Ha! No, he's reverted back to old Thibs after starting the season with Quickley, Hartenstein and Donte on the second unit in '23-'24. He doesn't have much faith outside his top 5-6 this year.
Hilarious.
McBride should be up over 30mpg (don't care about position overlap with JB), Miles is a player.
but THIBs is very strapped after that. Sims? Yikes, they are thin. Cam Payne, is OKish. Precious will be helpful. MRob = TL and will always be unavailable.
Knicks just don't worry me at all; they'll never last the season. OKC is the only team that should concern the Celtics.
It's even worse because he now has 2 talented offensive players he can stagger, and an East that's weak enough that he's probably out of the play-in even without riding his guys insanely. He just can't help himself....
(If people don't agree that KAT/Brunson can be staggered, that adds even more oomph to the idea that NYK really need a 2nd elite ballhandler, and that someone like JB would be insanely valuable to them, per some discussions we had a week ago.)
With another extended break I was thinking of a question. Who are the most beloved Celtics that never won a title?
Reggie Lewis, Isaiah Thomas, and Marcus Smart are the top of the list in my viewing history. I have a soft spot for 'Toine.
Could we put together a roster of guys that would get a standing ovation in the Garden, but never got a ring?
Reggie Lewis, Isaiah Thomas, and Marcus Smart are the top of the list in my viewing history. I have a soft spot for 'Toine.
Could we put together a roster of guys that would get a standing ovation in the Garden, but never got a ring?
New threads are good, you don't need permission to fire one up.
And Toine won a ring in Miami, but I know what you mean with what you said.