Gameweek 21/22

coremiller

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This is dire stuff so far from Spurs. No penetration at all, no ability to get into dangerous positions. Bergwijn is playing as a sort of false 9 which is an ... interesting choice. Sissoko/Davies as wingbacks offer nothing dynamic.

Meanwhile whenever Brighton recover the ball they have no trouble getting into the final third.
 

coremiller

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Goal for Brighton with some nifty passing that exposes Spurs' weak defensive positioning. Somehow Brighton get a free man 12 yards out even though Spurs have three center backs because Davies and Rodon screw up switching their assignments.
 

coremiller

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Spurs get a nice break through Bergwijn and have possession on the edge of the box, so they pass it backwards four times until it goes all the way to Lloris.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The Kane injury is obviously a huge blow but I have no idea why Spurs started playing this three at the back formation. They look so much worse (even pre-Kane injury) than they did playing with a back four.

Its sort of the same problem Arsenal ended up with in this formation - you either need a playmaker in the center behind two strikers or you need a central striker flanked by two "wingers" who are really playmaking creative types and Arsenal just didn't have the creative players for either setup in the fall (or wasn't playing the right people there). I don't think Spurs has the right creative players either.
 

coremiller

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I think it's because Jose doesn't trust his back 4 to be defensively sound unless he plays two DMs. So either way he's going to be defending primarily with six, it's just a question of how to arrange them. By playing wingbacks he frees the wide forwards to have a little less defensive responsibility to track the opposing fullbacks.

The problem is there isn't enough passing in the team, especially without Kane who could play a #10 role. Ndombele is really the only effective passer in the side, but a) he can't do both ball progression and chance creation and b) if you mark him well everyone else will just pass it sideways or backwards or give it away.

This is actually a game where they really could use Dele at a 10, so Ndombele could hang out deeper and feed him passes.
 

fletcherpost

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Jose won’t see out the season.
That's a bold statement. I think if Spurs get top4, he gets to start the next season for sure. But i still think it would be a big move to dump him before the end of the season if they're in a Europa spot. Have they not got a cup final to come as well?
 

coremiller

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Mou brings Vinicius on for Sanchez, admitting that he got his tactics wrong from the start.
 

SocrManiac

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That's a bold statement. I think if Spurs get top4, he gets to start the next season for sure. But i still think it would be a big move to dump him before the end of the season if they're in a Europa spot. Have they not got a cup final to come as well?
The body of evidence is overwhelming, however. Once Mou loses his players, he’s incapable of getting them back. If things continue to trend down, it would be better to pull the trigger before the players irrevocably hate each other in addition to their manager.
 

fletcherpost

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The body of evidence is overwhelming, however. Once Mou loses his players, he’s incapable of getting them back. If things continue to trend down, it would be better to pull the trigger before the players irrevocably hate each other in addition to their manager.
I hear you, but we're talking about Trophy Mourinho here.
 

Warning Track Speed

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Seven points from the last three games for Brighton. The continuing inability to finish anything makes it perpetually nerve-wracking, but things may be starting to come together.

Kudos also to Graham Potter on his nice new puffy coat. He spent the last month in a tweed number that was both ill-fitting and not warm enough.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Selfishly, I can't believe Connolly has kept Jahanbakhsh out of the team so often (AJB hurt right now of course - again). That miss was one for the ages
 

fletcherpost

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Seven points from the last three games for Brighton. The continuing inability to finish anything makes it perpetually nerve-wracking, but things may be starting to come together.

Kudos also to Graham Potter on his nice new puffy coat. He spent the last month in a tweed number that was both ill-fitting and not warm enough.
I hope it's like mines and filled with goose feathers. I got a great deal - on the coldest winter days I'm toastin.

I hope Brighton's inability to score more than one goal when they're well on top in a match doesn't come back to haunt them.
 

coremiller

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The body of evidence is overwhelming, however. Once Mou loses his players, he’s incapable of getting them back. If things continue to trend down, it would be better to pull the trigger before the players irrevocably hate each other in addition to their manager.
I don't think he's lost the players (except Dele), I just think 1) he has no idea to how to coach an attack that isn't based on countering at pace, 2) his tactics and team selection are too conservative. He can get away with that when Kane and Son are both firing together but when they're not he has no idea what to do.
 

teddykgb

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Bissouma for Brighton really catches the eye. Can see why teams are looking at him they may struggle to keep him long. I spent much of the match wondering if March is an incredible attacker or a ridiculously wasteful one — it felt like a lot of generic danger but Brighton were always one or two moments of class away from actually scoring
 

Warning Track Speed

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Brighton really miss Lamptey (hamstring) making those same overlapping runs on the opposite side from March. He's so fast, and so quick to angle for the box once he has some space. His return will open things up for everyone else.
 

OCST

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I think it's because Jose doesn't trust his back 4 to be defensively sound unless he plays two DMs. So either way he's going to be defending primarily with six, it's just a question of how to arrange them. By playing wingbacks he frees the wide forwards to have a little less defensive responsibility to track the opposing fullbacks.

The problem is there isn't enough passing in the team, especially without Kane who could play a #10 role. Ndombele is really the only effective passer in the side, but a) he can't do both ball progression and chance creation and b) if you mark him well everyone else will just pass it sideways or backwards or give it away.

This is actually a game where they really could use Dele at a 10, so Ndombele could hang out deeper and feed him passes.
What about Hojberg? Isn’t he a good passer?
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Brighton really miss Lamptey (hamstring) making those same overlapping runs on the opposite side from March. He's so fast, and so quick to angle for the box once he has some space. His return will open things up for everyone else.
Big Lamptey fan.
 

coremiller

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What about Hojberg? Isn’t he a good passer?
He's ok. He keeps the ball circulating and he doesn't give it away very often but he's not creative or visionary, he's not going to spray accurate long balls to switch play to the wings or pass the ball forward 25 yards with touch into a forward's feet so that the receiving player can handle it. Also he's often coming from a very deep defensive position and he's not much of a dribbler, so he's not going to beat the first level of the press on his own and he rarely has angles to play passes anywhere but toward the wings.

In many ways his distribution is similar to Winks, he just also provides a lot of defensive value while Winks does not. Combined it makes for a very useful player.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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He's ok. He keeps the ball circulating and he doesn't give it away very often but he's not creative or visionary, he's not going to spray accurate long balls to switch play to the wings or pass the ball forward 25 yards with touch into a forward's feet so that the receiving player can handle it. Also he's often coming from a very deep defensive position and he's not much of a dribbler, so he's not going to beat the first level of the press on his own and he rarely has angles to play passes anywhere but toward the wings.

In many ways his distribution is similar to Winks, he just also provides a lot of defensive value while Winks does not. Combined it makes for a very useful player.
I don't watch Spurs every game, but my impression has been that Kane and Son convert their chances at such a high rate that it hides a multitude of sins - which sounds like what you're saying here.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think it's because Jose doesn't trust his back 4 to be defensively sound unless he plays two DMs. So either way he's going to be defending primarily with six, it's just a question of how to arrange them. By playing wingbacks he frees the wide forwards to have a little less defensive responsibility to track the opposing fullbacks.

The problem is there isn't enough passing in the team, especially without Kane who could play a #10 role. Ndombele is really the only effective passer in the side, but a) he can't do both ball progression and chance creation and b) if you mark him well everyone else will just pass it sideways or backwards or give it away.

This is actually a game where they really could use Dele at a 10, so Ndombele could hang out deeper and feed him passes.
I don't think he's lost the players (except Dele), I just think 1) he has no idea to how to coach an attack that isn't based on countering at pace, 2) his tactics and team selection are too conservative. He can get away with that when Kane and Son are both firing together but when they're not he has no idea what to do.
I think these two posts might speak to each other. Mourinho's past sides have often been much more expansive in attack. The last truly great team he had was Chelsea 14-15, a side that played a defensively-challenged Cesc Fabregas in a double pivot and allowed him to freely join and direct the attack (18 assists!), generally looked to dominate possession, and rarely scored on counter attacks. His last title winners previous to that, the Real Madrid team that won the league in 11-12 ,scored 121 goals in the league, which is just a stupid number and higher than any of Pep's Barca sides of that era.

I think what Mourinho needs more than anything is a group of very capable defenders he can rely upon and who can be the foundation for the rest of his tactics. Especially against lower level opposition, he is perfectly happy to attack, possess the ball, and even put a few flair players in midfield as long as behind them there is a back four he fully trusts not to give up soft goals. He had that at Chelsea the first time around, at Inter, at Real Madrid, and at Chelsea the second time around. But if he doesn't have that back four he trusts, he's just unwilling to manage an open side that plays a lot of 3-2 and 2-2 matches. As you say, he is going to close down shop, play two DMs to shield the back four, and try to win ugly. I think this was ultimately one of his big problems at Manchester United and is seemingly one at Spurs as well. I don't know how long the Mourinho era will last for Tottenham but if he stays through this summer I would expect him to be focused on adding a CB.
 

coremiller

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I think these two posts might speak to each other. Mourinho's past sides have often been much more expansive in attack. The last truly great team he had was Chelsea 14-15, a side that played a defensively-challenged Cesc Fabregas in a double pivot and allowed him to freely join and direct the attack (18 assists!), generally looked to dominate possession, and rarely scored on counter attacks. His last title winners previous to that, the Real Madrid team that won the league in 11-12 ,scored 121 goals in the league, which is just a stupid number and higher than any of Pep's Barca sides of that era.

I think what Mourinho needs more than anything is a group of very capable defenders he can rely upon and who can be the foundation for the rest of his tactics. Especially against lower level opposition, he is perfectly happy to attack, possess the ball, and even put a few flair players in midfield as long as behind them there is a back four he fully trusts not to give up soft goals. He had that at Chelsea the first time around, at Inter, at Real Madrid, and at Chelsea the second time around. But if he doesn't have that back four he trusts, he's just unwilling to manage an open side that plays a lot of 3-2 and 2-2 matches. As you say, he is going to close down shop, play two DMs to shield the back four, and try to win ugly. I think this was ultimately one of his big problems at Manchester United and is seemingly one at Spurs as well. I don't know how long the Mourinho era will last for Tottenham but if he stays through this summer I would expect him to be focused on adding a CB.
There's something to this. But Mourinho is also known for not drilling his teams on attacking patterns the way he does on defensive shape, in contrast to coaches like Guardiola or Klopp. There's an Athletic article about it from a year ago: https://theathletic.com/1522064/2020/01/13/mourinho-klopp-tactics-spurs-liverpool/. Jonathan Wilson also talks about it in his Barcelona Inheritance book. I don't know how successful this less rigorous attacking approach can be against modern defenses, particularly good pressing systems.
 

fletcherpost

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It's gone pear shaped for Arsenal in the dying embers of the first half. David Luiz makes an ill advised last man challenge in his own box. Penalty and a Red.

They were up a goal at the time.

Neves scores the pen. Even stevens and it'll be 11 v 10 in the second half.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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If that's a not a time when the "double jeopardy" rules apply, I don't understand the point of that rule. You're not supposed to get a penalty and a red card unless the foul is an intentional act to stop a goal scoring opportunity. How anybody could look at that replay and decide it was intentional is beyond me. Luiz tripped over himself then the Wolves player's heel hits Luiz's knee, then the Wolves player crumples. I can see a ref missing it in real time but how can you look at the VAR and say that was intentional?
 

fletcherpost

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Did Luiz even touch him?
It's not a stonewall penalty that's for sure. Just watching the studio replays and punditry, they're saying because he never made an attempt at the ball he gets the red. If he'd went for the ball he'd get a yellow.

Luiz needs to read his rule book. But he's not the only one.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Wow from dominating the game in complete control seconds from halftime, to the game completely lost in like 4 minutes. That might be the most Arsenal thing ever.
 

SocrManiac

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Does Luiz have more penalty/red card combos than goals in his career? It feels like he's good for a couple every year.
 

Catcher Block

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Well...if David Luiz' red card was technically unfortunate, Leno certainly earned his just now. Came charging out of the box, misjudged a bounce, and swiped it out of bounds. Arsenal down to 9.
 

shaggydog2000

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Wow. Runar Runnarson actually playing in the premier league. This is what Arsenal fans have been dreading. Being down to 9 men makes it even worse. What a crazy set of turns in a game they started off dominating.
 

swiftaw

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Wow. Runar Runnarson actually playing in the premier league. This is what Arsenal fans have been dreading. Being down to 9 men makes it even worse. What a crazy set of turns in a game they started off dominating.
Probably Mat Ryan will get the starts going forward you would think.