No S&T. Pretty rough off-season for the Dubs.
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Free Agency Frenzy Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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I’m perfectly happy, even thrilled with this off-season so far. No interest in paying Tsunami Papi the MLE, let alone twice that. Loved the signing at the time (largely cos of Lacob’s willingness to take on that big of a lux tax hit) but didn’t realize what a poor shooter and passer he was, and how generally boneheaded he was on the floor for all his great athleticism, length and energy. The Ws were much better last season when Toscano-Anderson started taking his minutes. And this season it’s “addition by addition” with Klay and Otto Porter, Jr.
Giving Paschall’s minutes to Bjelica should also be a pretty big upgrade.
TBD, but I also think we hit an absolute home run with the two draft picks.
As far as losing the salary slot: they still have plenty of salary ballast and tradable assets to play with if they want to make a splashy deal … but I kinda hope they don’t. I love the Curry-Poole-Thompson-Wiggins-Porter-JTA-Draymond-Looney core rotation for this season, as well as the 2027 NBA championship lineup of Mannion-Poole-Moody-Kuminga-Wiseman.
I was really surprised that Simmons on his podcast was asking if the Warriors are the 2nd best team in the West. This is a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in two years, even with Steph going totally supernova last year. I get that Klay is coming back but he hasn’t played in and NBA game since June 2019; I’m not sure what he’s going to offer after two devastating injuries. Too much hinges on the development of their three young guys.
“2nd best team in the West” is pushing it, but I think it’s a mistake to imagine (as a lot seem to be) that all next year’s team is doing is adding a fragile Klay to the disasters that were 2019-20 and the first half of 2020-21. The team was really good over the last third of last season, with Grandpa Wanamaker gone and Poole blowing up in his stead; Baby Wiseman not being force-fed minutes with zero training camp; Juan Toscano-Anderson playing the old Andre 2.0 / Draymond 1B role to perfection; and Wiggins putting up .568 true shooting while being one of the best wing defenders in the league.
In sum: Curry has re-emerged as a top 3-ish NBA player and has a shiny new extension; Draymond is looking healthy and spry in Saitama; and Poole, Wiggins, JTA, Lee, and Looney are five positive rotation players that were all question marks to one degree or another at this time last season. Then — on a team whose biggest weakness the last couple seasons was shooting — you add not one but three absolutely deadly snipers in Klay, Otto Porter Jr., and Bjelica, and it starts to get pretty interesting, imo. And that’s before we get into what can reasonably be expected from the three blue-chip youngsters.
I’d say more like #5 seed O/U than #2 (behind PHO, UTA, DEN at minimum) but I’m still hopeful, depending somewhat on what happens with roster spots #14 and 15.
Edit: throw in Iguodala, haha. Not sure how much he has in the tank at 37, but on a vet min I can’t complain.
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Looks like a collection of talent that may or may not work well, except Curry of course. Seems like the Knicks team to me. Will make playoffs, won't make conference finals. Whether that's a 2 seed or 6 seed doesn't really make much difference.
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I'm jaded for two reasons. First, Warriors Twitter went into the offseason expecting them to "go for it now" by moving picks and young guys for big-name veterans who would help Curry, Klay and Dray win as many games as possible until they retire. Instead, the Warriors filled in a few gaps with interesting role players and drafted two very young guys who, if they stick around, can in theory grow into a new "big three" with Wiseman. I think Warriors Twitter poisoned me against this approach.
Second, Kerr's disastrous handling Wiseman last year makes me wonder if he can work the young guys into the rotation without turning the whole team upside-down. He wouldn't do it with Wiseman, and now you're asking him to give THREE young guys reasonable minutes without screwing up the whole team. Not going to be easy.
As you said, the best-case scenario is that Klay returns close to 100%, Kerr learns from his mistakes and figures out how to work the young guys in, the young guys are all good, they get good injury luck, Curry continues Currying for another year, Draymond staves off a drop-off, and they're back close to the top of the standings and can give anyone a run for their money in the playoffs.
But if any of those things doesn't happen, then you're back to being a good-not-great team being carried by a superstar.
On the plus side, no one who finished below them in the standings (Hou, OKC, Min, Sac, NO, SA) has improved in a way that makes me think they are going to get passed.
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1423685513832189956
Javonte back to Chicago. Good for him staying in the league.
Javonte back to Chicago. Good for him staying in the league.
The Knicks team with a top 5 NBA player and a core of players with three ‘chips and five straight conference titles?
I don’t read Warriors Twitter, thankfully. But I and plenty of other Ws fans have been supporting the path they ultimately took, or seem to have taken. If we’re talking selling the farm for Giannis, that’s one thing, but all the going vet names this off-season were at least two notches below Giannis; and even the flawed stars being discussed were probably not really available.
I don’t disagree with your overall take on all the question marks and challenges going into the season, but those are part of what makes it fun. I might feel differently without the three ‘chips in the bank, but I’m much more enthusiastic about watching Wiseman, Poole, Moody, and Kuminga develop than I would be watching them try to figure out how to play defense with 6-3 Beal taking over for 6-8 Wiggins, or how to work out the Draymond + Ben Simmons conundrum offensively.
But don’t take my word for it: Steph just signed a four-year extension without this mythical “fourth star” in place, and has seemed generally delighted with the direction of the franchise, including the young’uns. Draymond meanwhile said the draft can be just as good a way to add talent as trades; and apparently text-whispered “Kuminga” and “Moody” to Bob Myers in the lead up to those picks.
Yeah but Klay isn’t Durant. He relies on his athleticism and quickness much more than KD......and he’s coming off TWO catastrophic injuries.
Jackson back to the clips 2/22. Still waiting on KL.
View: https://twitter.com/NotoriousOHM/status/1423694660849967108
ESPN's The Jump points out that $2.8 billion dollars in contracts have been handed out in free agency so far.
View: https://twitter.com/NotoriousOHM/status/1423694660849967108
ESPN's The Jump points out that $2.8 billion dollars in contracts have been handed out in free agency so far.
Kawhi has agreed to return. Terms still being discussed on how much to pay him to not play and rehab next season
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1423728763150356485
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1423728763150356485
If he signs a 1+1 would that make him eligible for a Supermax.....or am I dreaming that I heard this somewhere?
I think i heard the same thing. I'm pretty sure that's the plan. Get paid an insane amount of money to rehab and not play an nba game for a year sounds like the route for KL.
I heard that LAC doesn't have KL's full Bird rights because he hasn't been with the team for 3 years. So they need to do a 1+1 so he can opt-out and LAC can pay him the full max because of full Bird rights.
I guess he gets $39+M this year. The max extension he can sign right now is 4/$176M. With full Bird rights, he can 5/$241M.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/08/kawhi-leonard-will-re-sign-with-clippers-still-discussing-terms.html
So the Clippers are going to get railroaded into paying Kawhi 39M to not play next year, with no assurances that he won't just opt out and leave as a FA after the season?
Would be such a Kawhi move.
Not really bc Kawhi would then be leaving a ton on the table which would defeat the purpose of making the 1+1 play.
What can Kawhi get over the next 5 years if he goes 1+1 and then signs a max with another team after year 1?
Obviously he will leave some $ on the table, but he will get 39M + X. Probably still over 200m?
Edit- screwed that up, he's lose like $15-20M I think by getting 5% instead of 8% raises. Also if he does 1+1 then goes somewhere else he can only get 4 years, if he does 1+1 and stays he gets 5 years, with the last year over $50M.
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Yeah, he will always get that extra year by staying, and no doubt he will make more by doing 1+1 and then signing a 5 year max with the Clippers.
But people do take less money and go with the 4 year new team max sometimes, depending on the situation. Not saying it's likely with Kawhi, but I'm not sure it's entirely off the table either. I doubt he will have a ton of loyalty to the Clippers, even if they just paid him 39M to rehab.
Who knows how things will look in Clipperland a year from now and what other teams could be involved.
Hasn’t coming home to LA always been Kawhi’s preference? I would find it hard to believe he would walk away for less money. That just doesn’t pass the smell test to me.
Like I said, I don't expect it. But it's Kawhi, who knows how he will feel next year. Hard to predict.
Clippers will be forced to pay 39M for a rehab year with no actual assurance he is staying (unlike the Durant situation with the Nets for example).
True, but aren't they also hoping that Kawhi will be playing by April, and maybe able to get into good enough game shape to contribute in a first round series, and start to really be more himself by the second round. Obviously it is Kawhi so he may not be willing to add any risk by pushing himself to come back
I agree, they probably hope all is not lost for this season.
Certainly with most players a late season/playoff return would still be on the table with an uncomplicated rehab.
Losing draft picks would be a big deal, which is why it likely won't happen. David Griffin's run in NO grows less impressive by the day.
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Why would this make Griffin less impressive? Chicago would be the one guilty here, I'd think.
Gotta think he's a little too Wiley, a little too much Tony Soprano in him. Griffin, on the other hand, has never been able to keep his mouth shut.
As others have pointed out in this thread, wouldn't the Bulls be the guilty party if there were any tampering with Ball?
It was a double sign and trade. He was a restricted free agent. Both teams were negotiating with one another and the other's players prior to the official start of free agency. That being said, the whole tampering rules are stupid and should be scrapped.
Tampering while the season is underway should be completely outlawed and harshly penalized. After the season is done and while we are all waiting for the FA to start, who cares? Where is the harm? Everyone recognizes that the moratorium is a mockery with the flood of deals that get reported every year one minute after it ends.
This strikes me as Silver just cracking the whip. If you're going to violate the official rules, at least wait one day before you announce the double sign and trade. That one day would be the paper bag of NBA free agency.
Also, won’t NBAPA flip out of there’s any impact to the players? I don’t imagine this amounts to much—maybe some small fine or something.
I mean it’s hilarious that they turned a blind eye to Kyrie reaching terms with the Nets while playing for Boston but is upset that LeBron was negotiating a deal to get Lonz to Chicago after the ‘21 season was over.
The tampering rules are well laid out in the CBA and NBA constitution, including the new upgrading of punishments two years ago.
NBA can do the following:
1. Fines up to $10M
2. Loss of 1 or more draft picks
3. Suspension of team officials
4. Voiding of contract and/or prohibition from signing said player.
My guess is it will be somewhere higher than the Bucks got last year (a 2nd) because these teams actually got the deal done so they obtained a major benefit, where the Bucks missed out on the player. I'd guess a hefty fine, and two 2nds, though if they really want to crack down they might hit them with a 1st. I don't think the league will void the deals.
What would happen to Ball if they did void the deal? No one has any cap space left, I guess he would have to stay in NO?
Yes, the rule is clear, you can't make any transaction that would leave you without first round picks in two consecutive drafts. Not that it matters for anyone but the Raptors that much since if they take a 1st I assume it will be 2002, and NOP have multiple 2022 picks, CHI already traded 2023, same with MIA.
I was more wondering why you would give up a good PF for the right to pay a clearly worse one a bunch more money
Not a bunch more money as it's being reported that LM is signing a 4/$67M extension (have also seen it as $75M) with Cavs. https://www.news5cleveland.com/sports/report-cavaliers-trade-larry-nance-jr
I guess the thinking is that Nance is pretty meaningless this year for CLE and the longer he stays with CLE, it's possible the less they are going to be offered for him. LM has some growth potential. Maybe CLE can figure out how to unlock it.
I mean, sure, but why not just take a 1st instead. Paying $227M for Allen, Love, Markkanen is rough, doing it when you just drafted a C in the top 3 is insanity.