Honestly it’s pretty great for Chicago too. Cleveland is a dumpster fire yet again
Free Agency Frenzy Thread
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Don’t forget Okoro who is a 3/4 as well. I like Lauri as a player but this is an ass awful deal for Cleveland and Markkanen’s a terrible fit for the roster. Don’t see how this is an improvement for him over Chicago
Nance was one of the few good perimeter defenders they had and now they're replacing him with a guy who can't guard 4s or 5s. Why not just trade Nance for picks? This team isn't going anywhere with this roster unless Mobley really pops.
They have one player - Okoro - who can guard wings adequately. The rest of their roster is small guards and 4/5s who can't stay in front of wings (barring an insane rookie year from Mobley). It just seems like they have absolutely no plan. Are they actually trying to win? How could they think that's possible with a roster this deficient defensively (and suspect offensively - is this the worst passing team in the NBA?)
They have one player - Okoro - who can guard wings adequately. The rest of their roster is small guards and 4/5s who can't stay in front of wings (barring an insane rookie year from Mobley). It just seems like they have absolutely no plan. Are they actually trying to win? How could they think that's possible with a roster this deficient defensively (and suspect offensively - is this the worst passing team in the NBA?)
Is getting a lottery-protected first for Nance really better than Markkanen for four years (I assume the $ doesn't really make a difference to CLE right bow). I assume that if CLE could have gotten a better draft pick, they would have already dealt Nance.
My guess is that the franchise is trying to win (yeah them!) but CLE doesn't really have a great path to talent acquisition. So they have to take a chance on overpaying players that the rest of the league doesn't really want. Maybe it works.
And if it doesn't, well at least they can say that they weren't outright tanking.
That would make sense for a different player maybe, but you just made a huge commitment to bigs in a $100M contract to Allen and a #3 pick on Mobley. AND if you're trying to win now (you shouldn't be that team sucks) Kevin Love is better player. All Markkanen does is clog up cap and take playing time for your bigtime rookie.
Also.... If you want to win now you play Nance, he's a better player and he can play some 3. If you're building long term, a late 1st on cheap money and another piece is likely better than Markkanen unless you're already planning to flip Allen, but I don't see how he has much positive value on that deal, it's not underwater, but it's not a bargain.
Wow. I’ve generally thought pretty highly of Altman but this is a real head scratcher. Floor spacing is great and all, but seems like it’s being massively overvalued with this move.
Idk. It all kinda almost makes sense.
Allen/Mobley/Lauri are not going to be expected to play more than 32 minutes per game each, so you've covered your 4 & 5 minutes.
Kevin Love is not part of the future. Maybe they buy him out or trade him for a terrible wing contract or whatever.
They have lined up a young core of players that are locked up between those 3 & Sexton/Garland/Okoro.
I mean yeah, most of those guys suck & that's never going to be better than a 7 seed even if it comes together, but it's not like free agents are going to be knocking down the Cavs doors.
Plus, if you get your smalls & bigs worked out, you can still be bad enough to tank for an elite wing in this upcoming draft.
Allen/Mobley/Lauri are not going to be expected to play more than 32 minutes per game each, so you've covered your 4 & 5 minutes.
Kevin Love is not part of the future. Maybe they buy him out or trade him for a terrible wing contract or whatever.
They have lined up a young core of players that are locked up between those 3 & Sexton/Garland/Okoro.
I mean yeah, most of those guys suck & that's never going to be better than a 7 seed even if it comes together, but it's not like free agents are going to be knocking down the Cavs doors.
Plus, if you get your smalls & bigs worked out, you can still be bad enough to tank for an elite wing in this upcoming draft.
Cleveland was the worst 3 point shooting team in the NBA last year by percentage and 28th in 3PA, so their need may be greater than the average team. Larry Nance is a good player, but he doesn't really help with that. I wonder if Kevin Love will take a Kemba-esque buyout or something. Or maybe they are expecting him to miss significant chunks of time given that he's injury-prone (he's missed, I believe, 161 games in the past 5 seasons, so he's a good bet to miss a few dozen games each season) and he's 33. I don't think he really factors into their long term or short- term decision making.
Maybe the Cavs were being nice to Nance by sending him to a team that will be playing meaningful games now. Also, as noted above while I was drafting this, I don't think Love will be playing many games for CLE this year.
Your post makes sense for most NBA teams but not CLE. For what I'm sure are a lot of different reasons, CLE isn't signing anyone in free agency that has another option. So CLE is left with having to overpay guys who don't have another market and then try to figure out how to make it work on the court.
Except for a fortunate union with LBJ, CLE hasn't had a winning record since 1997-98 and if you look at that team, it's seem incredible that they were able to win so many games. I think CLE is shooting to be a 9th or 10th seed next year with some hope for the future and would be ecstatic if they could finish #7. Allen and LM may get them there. But even if they don't fit and CLE ends up in the lottery again, it's not like that's a huge downside.
Yeah, despite the glut of bigs, he brings a needed skill and fits their timeline, but I do wonder what else they could’ve gotten with Nance and that money (about 18% of the cap, over the contract). Nance seems like a really great fit on Portland.
I was hoping the C's would find a way to pick him up for a reasonable price.
I don’t know, that squad’s so bad that I’d be willing to take on K-Love’s contract in exchange for their #1 next year in hopes of drafting Adrian Griffin Jr.
They’ve been reluctant to pay the toll on moving Love’s contract. But sooner or later they’re going to bite the bullet and give someone a #1 to take on responsibility for buying out Love.
Okoro is a little undersized to be a power wing. Besides, that’s probably Mobley’s spot in the lineup. He’s athletic enough to be just a F. The question with him is growing his game as he fills out.
There's something about your posts sometimes that makes me feel like you're disagreeing with me even though I'm not sure what it is we're disagreeing on lol.
The Cavs should be the ones taking on other people's bad contracts, but the ones paying to get off theirs. At least if they weren't going with this "overpay mediocre young players in the hopes they become good young players" strategy.
You cut off the sentence where I explained why they weren't taking on other people's bad contracts.
Not sure what about anything you said would lead them to pay to get off Love?
They're still $5m below the tax.
CavCore:
Name, Age, Years on Contract
Mobley/19/4 (then RFA)
Allen/23/5
Okoro/20/3 (then RFA)
Sexton/22/1 (then RFA)
Lauri/24/4
Garland/21/2 (then RFA)
Like what about this would indicate they're in such a rush to get Love off the books they'll forgo a future 1st to get there?
Name, Age, Years on Contract
Mobley/19/4 (then RFA)
Allen/23/5
Okoro/20/3 (then RFA)
Sexton/22/1 (then RFA)
Lauri/24/4
Garland/21/2 (then RFA)
Like what about this would indicate they're in such a rush to get Love off the books they'll forgo a future 1st to get there?
Terry Pluto wrote that according to his NBA source the Cavs and Love are close to a buy-out. https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/08/cavs-trading-larry-nance-jr-hard-to-accept-but-there-is-upside-terry-plutos-scribbles.html. I think the Cavs are asking Love to take a hefty haircut and Kevin has to figure out if going to the LAL is worth that to him as unlike Kemba, he's not going to find another team to make up the difference.
OTOH, Kevin's made over $206M in his career so giving up a few million bucks to play in meaningful games before his body completely gives up would seem to be a no-brainer, but what do I know?
OTOH, Kevin's made over $206M in his career so giving up a few million bucks to play in meaningful games before his body completely gives up would seem to be a no-brainer, but what do I know?
Yeah, I think it was quoting my post & leading with "I don't think" that had me in argument mode & wanting to vehemently disagree with whatever you were saying, until I took a step back & realized that was a foolish thought on my part for several reasons lol.
I think Cuttino's oldest son, Cuttino Jr. is older than Evan, but couldn't swear to that.
Evan's dad is Eric Mobley, the former small-time college basketball player/USC assistant coach (not the dead 1994 Bucks 1st round pick, RIP).
Hope you weren't paying attention to any of the cornerbacks taken in the this year's NFL draft. Patrick Surtain, Joe Horn and Asante Samuel, all had kids taken in the first 47 picks.
Hell, it doesn't get much worse than Kenyon Martin. His son was drafted just 5 years after he retired.
The Griffey's played together. Have any father/son combos been active at the same time in the NBA?
edit: nope.
Bronny is coming soon.
Weird Bronny fact - he used to wear #0 because Russell Westbrook was his favorite player before switching to #23 because he saw a MJ highlight video.
Weird Bronny fact - he used to wear #0 because Russell Westbrook was his favorite player before switching to #23 because he saw a MJ highlight video.
OK, it was true until the last bit, he obviously took 23 in honor of his dad.
Yup, at this point it seems like LeBron will at least hold on until 2024, when Bronny is draft eligible.
He didn't play at the same time as his children but Rick Barry deserves a mention for having 3 children in the NBA (Brent, Jon, Drew), plus his father in law (Bruce Hale).
He didn't play at the same time as his children but Rick Barry deserves a mention for having 3 children in the NBA (Brent, Jon, Drew), plus his father in law (Bruce Hale).
Bronny will sign with Klutch and Rich Paul will let it be known that Bronny will sit out a year unless he winds up on LeBron’s team.
IIRC, the oldest of the Barry sons, Scooter Barry got a training cameo look with the Celtics. He ended up kicking around in US minor leagues, and then a long run overseas.
Bronny is ranked 41st in his class on ESPN. Who knows what will happen, but I'd guess that a) less than 50% of kids ranked that high become first round picks (since there are only 30 of those each year, some of whom are international players), and b) he'd be ranked lower if LeBron decided to go into accounting and nobody knew who he was.
Some fun notes on the Wiki father-son(s) list, particularly Hardaway and Trent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_second-generation_National_Basketball_Association_players
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_second-generation_National_Basketball_Association_players
I think he may actually be skewed lower due to California sports mostly being shut down this past year. Other rankings I've seen have him around 30.
Thank you for this trip down memory lane.
* After seeing Rick Barry and Henry Bibby at the top of the list it got me wondering how these father/son relationships were affected, both positively and negatively, by the fathers career, lifestyle, drugs of their era, etc. I worked briefly with Mike Bibby’s brother in law in 2006 and he would tell me how Mike has zero feelings or relationship with Henry.
* I’m sad that I missed Julian Washburn’s entire career without knowing who he was.
* Glad that this page connected Jimmy Walker and Jalen Rose. I recall hearing how they finally spoke over the phone prior to Jimmy’s death and were going to meet but never did. I remember this story back from the 80’s when I played against Steve Malloy, another of Jimmy’s sons who was playing for Leo Papile on the BABC.
* I found out today ago that Curtis Perry of the legendary Suns/Celtics Finals was Byron Houston’s father. Same with Brian Cook being the son of former Celtics 1st round pick Norm Cook.
* I am not surprised at all to find Eric Piatkowski’s fathers name is Walt. In fact, may have guessed it.
I doubt LeBron will be in much demand for 24/25. That will be his age 40 season. Maybe he'll be enough demand for a team to burn a late first.
If Bronny develops into a lottery pick, LeBron signs on to be a mentor on a terrible team. If Bronny is a fringe pick, maybe LeBron signs for the vet minimum/MLE to join the contender who selects him in the 1st round. I could see LeBron being that missing piece for a team. And if the team is a contender, trading or getting rid of the 20-30 pick for vet LeBron is the right move anyway. Keeping it and adding LeBron would be a win win, even if Bronny isn't much.
Going into his junior year (same as Bronny now), LeBron was already thought of as the best high school player in America, and the end of it he was on the cover of SI and already starting to transcend basketball.
I feel like people have been expecting Bronny to become a superstar since he was a little kid, which is insane given that superstars rarely beget superstars, in any sport. The gene pool is always strong, but regression to the mean is a pretty strong force, and superstars usually beget talented but not special players. Just being ranked 25-50 in his class is more than most superstars yield. Sucks because if his ceiling is in fact good college player/fringe pro, some people will think he is a disappointment. But who good was Jordan's kid? Or Magic's? Or Joe Montana's?
Relatedly, what is the best father/son combo in sports? Bobby and Brett Hull are both legit HOFers. I think Bobby Bonds and Archie Manning could have been HOFers if their career had played out a bit differently, but as it was, they fell short. So I'd say the Hulls.
I saw the Washburn brothers on Thanksgiving Day 2012 in Orlando. UTEP was matched against the Oklahoma Sooners and Buddy Hield. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2012-11-22-oklahoma.html
And the late game that night was Gonzaga against Clemson. Speaking of hoops bloodlines, the star of that Zags team was Kelly Olynyk, John Stockton's kid, David, came off the bench. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2012-11-22-clemson.html
Trivia: that was the night of the butt fumble game. I'm probably one of a handful of people on this site who didn't watch that game.
And the late game that night was Gonzaga against Clemson. Speaking of hoops bloodlines, the star of that Zags team was Kelly Olynyk, John Stockton's kid, David, came off the bench. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2012-11-22-clemson.html
Trivia: that was the night of the butt fumble game. I'm probably one of a handful of people on this site who didn't watch that game.
Gordie and Mark Howe should be up there as Mark was a legit hall of fame player.
Agreed on Bonds, but the Archie Manning story is hagiography. I was 2yo when Archie entered the league, but in a 14 year career he led the league in completions and attempts once and nothing else besides sacks and sack yards. He went to two Pro Bowls and was top-10 in passer rating four times (10, 5, 10, 8). Guy was a below average player with good marketing.
The Griffeys have a pretty good argument. Obviously Sr wasn't as good as Jr, but he was good enough to play over 2,000 games and 19 years.
Check back in 20 years, the Vlad Guerreros might be at the top of the list.
Bichette kid is no bum either. My oldest took me to a game in Manchester a few years ago, and I felt old as shit watching Vlad, Bo, and Cavan Biggio out there.
I specifically recall LeBron as the only sophomore listed on any of the three HS All-American Teams (he was first team) so I became fascinated about him early on. He was listed at either 6-6 or 6-7 back then depending on who posted it.