Formula 1: General Discussion and 2020 Preview

[Nick Kaufman]

Grosjean is the beneficiary of 50 years of safety advances. Without the halo, he may lose his head or lose consciousness, without the layers upon layers of fireproof clothing, he suffers burns throughout like the ones that cost Niki Lauda his ear.

I would also say that unless his car betrayed him, the accident is his fault; he's been involved in plenty of accidents in the past, most of them because of him.

But yeah, she should thank his lucky stars, because I didn't think that anyone could have come out alive when I saw it happen.

 

[kfoss99]

Now Stroll is upside down.

 

[SocrManiac]

Now Stroll is upside down.

Frankly the safest thing for him and those around him.

 

[kfoss99]

Perez with an engine fire and race looking to finish under safety car. This was an eventful race.

 

[Chainsaw318]

The Halo saved his life. Very fortunate that the way the car was in the barrier was not similar to how Jules
Bianchi crashed in under the crane at Suzuka. It would seem the Halo kept that from happening.

Terrifying crash, amazing effort by Grosjean to get himself out and the marshalls and medical staff to get there in 15-20 second.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Dude hit the wall at 137mph and got out of it with only a couple of minor burns. He should definitely play the lottery this week.

Haas confirmed soon after the accident that Grosjean had sustained slight burns to his hands and ankles, and was being taken to hospital with a suspected broken rib.

Haas later confirmed in a statement that all X-rays completed on Grosjean had come back showing no fractures or breaks, and that he would undergo treatment for burns to the back of both hands.

The team also revealed that the impact speed was 221 km/h before the logger on Grosjean's car stopped, converting to 137 mph.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/153842/grosjean-to-remain-in-hospital-overnight-after-crash

 

[SocrManiac]

53g peak impact.

Other drivers (Vettel and Richards in particular) have been pretty upset about the coverage. I see their point. The replays were a little gratuitous once they saw Grosjean walking.

 

[Chainsaw318]

Ricciardo.

Verstappen again with a jerk response that if he were in charge, anyone who didn’t want to race after a big incident like that should be canned. Max just seems like a sick at every opportunity.

 

[SocrManiac]

I apologize my my phone’s autocorrect, but I don’t think based on my responses in this thread I need to be corrected on Danny Ric’s name.

I find myself agreeing with Vettel and Brawn’s general tone here. Grosjean’s survival is a remarkable testament to the improvements in safety and tribute to those who weren’t so fortunate. However, there were some serious failures here that need to push things further. I haven’t yet seen a good explanation for the fuel in the fire. I don’t think the 1-3 liters in the collector is sufficient for what we saw, nor do I believe it was a complete fuel cell failure. The way the barrier split and allowed the car to wedge itself in place is worrisome as well. Given that it’s likely what forced the car to split, it’s partially causal to the fire as well.

In the back of my head, I have some less than fully formed opinion on “dangerous” drivers as well. There have been a couple of guys over the last few years that I think the entire grid considers “dangerous.” Some have matured (Verstappen), others haven’t (Grosjean, Magnussen, some situations with Kvyat and Stroll). I don’t think the penalty point system is serving the grid as intended. I don’t have a strong feeling right now if there needs to be corrective action on the part of the drivers or the system, but I do wonder if the chaos on the opening laps is a general discipline issue or just part of the fun of racing. The Sky team found Stroll kicking up some debris way off-track that may have contributed to the Grosjean incident- if he was on the damn track where he belonged would that have happened?

 

[Average Reds]

The Sky team found Stroll kicking up some debris way off-track that may have contributed to the Grosjean incident- if he was on the damn track where he belonged would that have happened?

That actually makes sense, as there has to be some reason that Grosjean lurched to the right before making contact with Kvyat. (And once the tires made contact and his car lifted/repositioned in the air, his fate was sealed.)

Agree with all of the points you raised as well. It’s is an absolute miracle that Grosjean survived at all, much less that he was able to escape and literally walk out of the inferno the way he did.

 

[SocrManiac]

That actually makes sense, as there has to be some reason that Grosjean lurched to the right before making contact with Kvyat. (And once the tires made contact and his car lifted/repositioned in the air, his fate was sealed.)

Agree with all of the points you raised as well. It’s is an absolute miracle that Grosjean survived at all, much less that he was able to escape and literally walk out of the inferno the way he did.

Apologies- Stroll was on track when it kicked up. Maybe it broke off when he rejoined? Either way, he sucks.

It's tough to spot, but you can catch it from Grosjean's onboard (no crash shown):

View: https://streamable.com/cj7xgm


Here's a still. It came from underneath Stroll's car. Note from Grosjean's hands that he's already in the cross-track right turn. He corrects before contact with Kvyat, but the car doesn't respond at all. That front-right tire would be loaded to pull him out of the turn and it clearly didn't bite. The telemetry should tell the story if it lost pressure at or around this moment.

 

[SocrManiac]

I want to edit the post above, but it would be disingenuous.

Reviewing that onboard again, Grosjean initiates the contact. He wasn't reacting until after the bump. He's just... Not a good driver.

 

[Average Reds]

I was actually going through the replays as you were posting, so great minds, yadda, yadda ...

As you said, it's clear that Grosjean's move cross-track was intentional, but the counter-move produced no response. Whether that is due to debris or because he was egregiously late and had already contacted Kvyat is unclear, though I lean towards your conclusion.

The debris does seem to be from Stroll's car, which had gone off (to the right) a few seconds before and Stroll spent quite a long time in the runoff area before rejoining the track. As you said, the telemetry will ultimately tell us if it played a part or if Grosjean just made a horrendous mistake.

 

[Chainsaw318]

I apologize my my phone’s autocorrect, but I don’t think based on my responses in this thread I need to be corrected on Danny Ric’s name.

Apologies. Was not making a “calling you out correction” just putting in the information for what I figured was a mis-typing or autocorrect. Not my intention to imply anything untoward.


I had gathered Grosjean’s move to be I response to the cars on the left side having tangled and slowed and trying to avoid an issue.

Gasly, I thought, had gone off on the other side, Norris had damage from an incident, and other cars were bottled up there.

I think Grosjean cut across not seeing or looking for Kvyat. On the limited looks I got at the Kvyat/Stroll coming together, I thought it was 50/50, or more likely a Stroll issue, as he tends to turn in without expecting other cars to be there, as he showed recently.

I have not thought Kvyat to be a problem driver in his second stint on F1.

I would rank him below at least both Haas drivers and Stroll on the top tier of “drivers I am unsurprised when the cut to an incident and see they are involved.”

He’s on the next tier, I would think, with recent-vintage Vettel, Kimi, Giovannazi, Ocon.

 

[SocrManiac]

Little dusty in here...

 

[SocrManiac]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Gu5WBM3ss


Here's the analysis that pointed out Stroll's debris.

I don't think there's any excuse for Stroll to be out there and the shards of his car absolutely could have killed somebody. Hell, the halo wouldn't protect against that, ironically.

That said, it looks more and more to me like Grosjean did what he does, swept across the track without complete situational awareness, and put himself into the wall.

 

[SocrManiac]

Haas is playing with fire, no pun intended. Mazepin is a talented driver for sure, but the baggage is nontrivial.

The optics of a Russian on the US team probably should have been avoided as well. Haas isn’t going to become America’s sweetheart team with this strategy.

 

[Chainsaw318]

There doesn’t seem to be a better option, if they weren’t going to take Perez, who is Mexican and comes with some cash, but not to Mazepins level. No American driver, for example.

Also, Hamilton covid+ and maybe out of both of the last two races means some Van Doorne, which will be fun to have back. Wonder if he finishes way behind Bottas, which will be an example of Hamilton’s skill.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Also, Hamilton covid+ and maybe out of both of the last two races means some Van Doorne, which will be fun to have back. Wonder if he finishes way behind Bottas, which will be an example of Hamilton’s skill.

Or not - George Russell is temporarily switching from Williams to Mercedes, while Williams reserve Jack Aitken gets called up to replace Russell:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55152354That's a bit weird, isn't it?

 

[swiftaw]

Mick Schimacher (son of Michael) will be the other Haas driver next season.

 

[Chainsaw318]

Or not - George Russell is temporarily switching from Williams to Mercedes, while Williams reserve Jack Aitken gets called up to replace Russell:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55152354That's a bit weird, isn't it?

A bit, but kinda cool, as it means we get to see if Russell’s hype is real in the best car, and maybe he gets to stop answering questions about not having gotten a point yet.

F1 is such a game of complex background power dynamics and money. Russell has long-term deal with Mercedes and is either managed by or mentored by Mercedes boss Toto Wolff. Williams is an engine customer of Mercedes and much of their chance at relevance would seem dependent on holding on to that relationship. There may also be the dynamic that Wolffs next role at Mercedes is as yet undefined, and Hamilton has indicated his future may be tied to Toto is some fashion.

Even if power weren’t overtly flexed, you can almost hear it flowing in the background with theses moves. Hope Lewis is okay, but could be a really fun, weird weekend.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

That's an extraordinary testimonial from a man who escaped death.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDT-tMtdfSo

 

[Chainsaw318]

He names his sense of impending death at one point.

I haven’t reviews the footage a lot more, is it guardrail he felt blocking him from getting up out of the car, or a damaged section of the halo?

That's an extraordinary testimonial from a man who escaped death.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDT-tMtdfSo

 

[SocrManiac]

The halo was remarkably intact in pictures. I’ve always been curious about the aero component that covers their shoulders. We saw with Lewis a few years ago how it can lift from the car if it isn’t properly fastened. There’s no way he could have disconnected it and popped it off- it would have been totally wedged by the barrier.

It still boggles my mind that his wheel disappeared before his escape. Would the act of removing that have been a bridge too far?

I assume the drink tube and radio simply break away. It would be insane if that wasn’t the case. Escaping from the halo, wheel, and belt seems like more than enough when the car isn’t on fire.

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

They should have a breakaway fitting on the drink tube, and the radio is most likely something like a stereo plug where it doesn't require a lot of force to pull it out. Belts should also have a quick release. Wheel seems like it would potentially be the biggest hang-up.

I've done some very low level road racing in street cars, and the benchmark is to be able to get out of the car within 10 seconds (that's about how long my fire suit should be able to keep me from getting seriously burned).

Edit: Watching one of the YouTube videos related to the one embedded above, they say that the standard for exiting a F1 car is 7 seconds (that is, every driver must pass a test to get out of their car within 7 seconds, although they get as many shots at it as they need).

 

[SocrManiac]

George didn’t quite pull it off, but it was damn close.

Max is going to win tomorrow.

 

[kfoss99]

Go, George, Go!

 

[SocrManiac]

Fucking brutal. I feel sick.

 

[kfoss99]

F'n Mercedes! I want to cry!

 

[swiftaw]

Fucking brutal. I feel sick.

Yeah, so unlucky. Worse than when he was 10th and spun himself out under after car a few races ago.

 

[SocrManiac]

Perez in front after ruining the race for Max and Charles is gross, too.

 

[kfoss99]

NASCAR doesn't let all lap cars back on the lead. Hurt Russell twice this year. Dumb rule.

 

[kfoss99]

Points for Russell if it stands. Big night for Racing Point.

This view of Perez with the fireworks going off us amazing.

 

[swiftaw]

Perez in front after ruining the race for Max and Charles is gross, too.

That was Charles' fault, even he said so.

 

[Average Reds]

Perez in front after ruining the race for Max and Charles is gross, too.

This is wrong, at least in my opinion.

By my viewing, Bottas screws up the first lap for everyone and then LeClerc caused the accident by braking too late and locking up.

Edit: as swift says above, this was confirmed by LeClerc, who took the blame.

 

[SocrManiac]

My bad, then. Looked to me like Perez didn’t leave room at the apex.

 

[swiftaw]

Haas is playing with fire, no pun intended. Mazepin is a talented driver for sure, but the baggage is nontrivial.

The optics of a Russian on the US team probably should have been avoided as well. Haas isn’t going to become America’s sweetheart team with this strategy.

This is going to end well: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/09/haas-condemn-formula-one-driver-nikita-mazepin-abhorrent-instagram-video

 

[SocrManiac]

This is going to end well: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/09/haas-condemn-formula-one-driver-nikita-mazepin-abhorrent-instagram-video

I’m an idiot on the internet. How did Haas not see this coming?

 

[swiftaw]

I’m an idiot on the internet. How did Haas not see this coming?

I'm sure they did, but they also saw daddy's money.

 

[swiftaw]

Lots of rumors that Red Bull will announce tomorrow that Sergio Perez as their second driver next season.