Formula 1 - 2021 - Chasing down Lewis?

How does the final race of the season play out?

  • Max wins a close race

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lewis crashes out Max (Max wins title)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neither driver wins the race.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

tmracht

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For those with more knowledge of the rules than me - could they have thrown a red flag instead of the SC and let both drivers get a fresh set of tires for a final lap or two?

Ultimately would have been just as orchestrated, but would have been more “fair.”
I mean they just made up rules along the way so sure.
 

Average Reds

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I mean they just made up rules along the way so sure.
For those who are not Max fanboys, this is why the ending feels shitty*. FIA is making it up as they go along and then providing illogical explanations to justify their action when the rule book is clear on what they should have done.

*Let me add that it was going to feel shitty no matter how the race ended, because they botched the lap 1 incident as well. For those who don't believe me, just read what I wrote in real time.
 
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SocrManiac

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I think the result is just, but the path is utter bullshit.

I believe Max was the faster driver In a car that started the season faster and ultimately was weaker than Mercedes. His racecraft got dangerous as he got desperate. Whether he deserved the championship is up to debate, but I ultimately don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to be on the top.

Max on top and the FIA in shambles, forced to fix their issues, feels like the right end for the season.
 

Chainsaw318

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Huh. I don’t think I had this option in the poll.

Max is a mighty racer and deserves to be a champion, but this doesn’t sit right. I have only been watching 5-6 years, but I don’t recall a half-measure like that on the safety car (race sooner, but the back markers unlap themselves).

Having that decide the championship is tough to stomach.
 

Average Reds

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I think the result is just, but the path is utter bullshit.
Thank you.

Huh. I don’t think I had this option in the poll.

Max is a mighty racer and deserves to be a champion, but this doesn’t sit right. I have only been watching 5-6 years, but I don’t recall a half-measure like that on the safety car (race sooner, but the back markers unlap themselves).

Having that decide the championship is tough to stomach.
Hate to admit this, but I've been following F1 for more than four decades and today's events don't even rate compared to:
  1. Stripping Senna of the victory (and driver's title) in '89 after Prost turned in on him in an attempt to prevent a pass.
  2. Not taking action in '90 when Senna intentionally crashed into Prost in the last race to preserve his title. (A clear make-up non-call.)
  3. Not taking action when Schumacher wildly blocked and then intentionally took out Damon Hill to preserve his title in the last race of '94.
F1 officials were so shamed by these incidents that they pounded Schumacher when he tried the same move on Villeneuve in '97. But the pattern of "making it up on the fly" instead of following the rules has always applied, and was on display last week in Saudi Arabia and again today.

I've taken breaks in the past because I got fed up and today makes me question whether I will do so again.
 
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tmracht

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Yeah sorry if I'm coming off annoying or petulant. I'm neither Max nor Lewis guy. It just seems so arbitrary how they handled this. This wasn't a racing incident they were wishy washy on (that's been true all season). This is setting up a one lap drag race by an means necessary when the guy in second has tire compound and life advantage and nothing to lose when he was 11 seconds back and had lap traffic in the way. It's not Williams or Haas fault safety car happen. But just mixing and matching rules on lap 57.5 of the last race is just leaving a weird taste in my mouth. Why would I want to continue a F1 tv account when really it's just what does Masi want today.
 

SocrManiac

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Yeah sorry if I'm coming off annoying or petulant. I'm neither Max nor Lewis guy. It just seems so arbitrary how they handled this. This wasn't a racing incident they were wishy washy on (that's been true all season). This is setting up a one lap drag race by an means necessary when the guy in second has tire compound and life advantage and nothing to lose when he was 11 seconds back and had lap traffic in the way. It's not Williams or Haas fault safety car happen. But just mixing and matching rules on lap 57.5 of the last race is just leaving a weird taste in my mouth. Why would I want to continue a F1 tv account when really it's just what does Masi want today.
I do not like Max. I just have started to like Lewis less, turning me into a Max supporter.

I guess I’m just repeating myself with my emotions high. I hate this end to what should have been a more interesting season. The story of the drivers hasn’t been as important as the story of the stewards and rulebook.

The drivers have been making loud noises that Drive to Survive has been pushing the sport in weird directions. I don’t think it’s tin foil hat territory to argue that the interpretation and application of the rulebook this season support that accusation.

Again, I can live with (and even like) the result. I hope Max can’t enjoy this fully.

There’s a fork in the road here for the sport. They can admit the errors in handling this season and commit to fix these issues. Alternatively, they can circle the wagons, defend what they’ve done, and forever damage the integrity of the sport.
 

SocrManiac

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Mercedes have launched their protest. One against Max, which is noise. The other against the restart should be upheld (but won’t be).




 

Nick Kaufman

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This is apples to space stations. We are not talking about blind luck. We are talking about the FIA ignoring their own rules.
I don't understand your point. Someone asked whether it was possible to do a restart and I pointed that this happened in Baku, also 4 laps from the end.
 

tmracht

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Mercedes have launched their protest. One against Max, which is noise. The other against the restart should be upheld (but won’t be).




Yeah Max nosed ahead but gave it back that's a nothing burger.

I can easily see the other one going to CAS if FIA responds like Masi did on comms.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Wouldn’t one easy way to prevent this issue in the future be to make a rule that a race cannot end on a safety car lap?

If that had been the rule here, Hamilton definitely would have pitted knowing that he’d be facing a charging Max for at least one lap and then we would at least have gotten a fairer fight.

I dunno, maybe that doesn’t work in terms of the cars’ fuel loads or whatever but initially it seems like an easy fix to me.
 

SocrManiac

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I’m wrapping my brain around it now and wonder whether the FIA will channel USAC from 1981 and do this. (That’s the only other decision I can think of that feels comparable. Of course, USAC rescinded it months later.)
It’s an easy way out. Max inarguably broke the rule.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Also, normally I’d be aghast about a championship being overturned via protest but I kind of want that now because (a) it would be the right call based on the rules and (b) the level of vitriol and chaos that would cause might be the only way to actually get the FIA to get its shit together going forward.

(I’m referring to the safety car/lapped cars, not Max potentially inching in front of Hamilton. The rule there says no car may “overtake” - the obvious intent of that one is not have one car pass another and gain track position. Max did not “overtake” Hamilton while the safety car was out.)
 

Chainsaw318

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It’s an easy way out. Max inarguably broke the rule.
I had not been as surly about the Race Director as some, as I think he’s been in a tough spot with the teams in his ear, but effectively taking to the stewards, and the stewards seeming to want little to no involvement in making calls during the year.

That said, if you want to play conspiracy, they could say the race was improperly restarted, and declare it endedon the prior lap under safety car?
 

SocrManiac

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I had not been as surly about the Race Director as some, as I think he’s been in a tough spot with the teams in his ear, but effectively taking to the stewards, and the stewards seeming to want little to no involvement in making calls during the year.

That said, if you want to play conspiracy, they could say the race was improperly restarted, and declare it endedon the prior lap under safety car?
That would admit race officials made an error. They’re loathe to do that.
 

Average Reds

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I had not been as surly about the Race Director as some, as I think he’s been in a tough spot with the teams in his ear, but effectively taking to the stewards, and the stewards seeming to want little to no involvement in making calls during the year.

That said, if you want to play conspiracy, they could say the race was improperly restarted, and declare it endedon the prior lap under safety car?
I don’t believe there was any conspiracy. (The FIA used to be like this, but that hasn’t been the case in decades, IMO.)

The problem is that officials like Masi try too damned hard to please everyone rather than upholding the rules, which causes them to act defensively. That kind of thinking is how you make a hash of things.

When they initially decided to restart but not allow lapped cars to go around, they were attempting to impose a compromise that let the race finish on the track. Red Bull screamed bloody murder, saying that this would decide the race for Hamilton. So they reversed themselves, allowing the cars to unlap themselves but also setting the restart before the cars caught up. However, if the earlier compromise was (in effect) deciding the race for Hamilton, the second decision decided it for Verstappen. And neither choice was specified by the rules.

As was discussed earlier, they had the ability to red flag the race and put them both on new tires for an on-track shoot out. But they panicked, made the wrong call and now their incompetence has left them stuck in a shitty, shitty place.
 

SocrManiac

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For those who aren’t footy fans, Mercedes QC (lawyer) got Manchester City out of some seemingly slam dunk legal trouble. Pretty effective at the job.
 

SocrManiac

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I hit reply too soon.

I’m not going to bother reading the damn thing myself, but if it’s actually that chock full of non-committal and conditional wording there’s no rules at all. It’s alll discretionary.
 

rguilmar

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I’m with most people here. The end of the race just feels wrong and doesn’t sit with me. I didn’t like that some drivers were allowed to unlap themselves while others were not. Masi stated that he wanted to clear the drivers between Max and Lewis. I know the focus was on the front two, but there are 18 other drivers on the track (well, significantly fewer at this point). I’m a big fan of watching drivers in the middle of the pack, and they weren’t treated the same. It’s not as sexy as the battle for first, but other points and positions in the standings were at play too.

Whatever the case, F1 and Netflix will love the extra attention on the sport. Drama and controversy sell.

Also credit to Checo who played the team game all weekend long.
 

Phragle

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I don’t believe there was any conspiracy. (The FIA used to be like this, but that hasn’t been the case in decades, IMO.)
If there's a conspiracy, then they tricked me. I don't think I've been tricked

The problem is that officials like Masi try too damned hard to please everyone rather than upholding the rules, which causes them to act defensively. That kind of thinking is how you make a hash of things.
Yup. I don't so much care about having a safety car finish. It happens when a car duffs it at the end of a race. It has happens millions of times

When they initially decided to restart but not allow lapped cars to go around, they were attempting to impose a compromise that let the race finish on the track. Red Bull screamed bloody murder, saying that this would decide the race for Hamilton. So they reversed themselves, allowing the cars to unlap themselves but also setting the restart before the cars caught up. However, if the earlier compromise was (in effect) deciding the race for Hamilton, the second decision decided it for Verstappen. And neither choice was specified by the rules.
Which it already was. Christian (IIRC) said they needed a miracle. Well they got it

I normally come down after these. I’m not.

I’m ripshit at the FIA for ruining this.
Yeah it's crushing. Max had a phenomenal season, but when it came down to the end RB didn't have enough to hold on to it. They were thoroughly outclassed the last few races -- today maybe as badly as any. Then just because they wanted a green flag finish, they took the trophy from Lewis and gave it to Max. I think they wanted a racing finish, ignoring that it was never going to be a race given the difference in cars and tires. I don't see the same appeal to a green flag finish as Masi and the higher ups must. Is this disaster better than a finish under yellow? They gambled a whole year of intense racing and a gigantic boom in popularity, and risked it all for a single lap? The greed is unbelievable

I don't follow so much on reddit, but I do on twitter and instagram and I've seen some truly nasty stuff posted about Lewis throughout the season, and this morning especially. I get the sense these keyboard warriors have a real effect on people that read their mentions. They're relentless. I know they have affected the media and podcasters and I feel like that they could have affected Masi too. I never had a problem with Max winning this year, it could end up being a great thing, but with the way it ended today, the sour taste in my mouth is that racists won
 

swiftaw

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If they really wanted a green flag finish they should’ve red flagged the race rather than brought out the safety car. This would’ve allowed everyone to change tires and then race on equal footing for the last few laps.
 

Chainsaw318

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I’m with most people here. The end of the race just feels wrong and doesn’t sit with me. I didn’t like that some drivers were allowed to unlap themselves while others were not. Masi stated that he wanted to clear the drivers between Max and Lewis. I know the focus was on the front two, but there are 18 other drivers on the track (well, significantly fewer at this point). I’m a big fan of watching drivers in the middle of the pack, and they weren’t treated the same. It’s not as sexy as the battle for first, but other points and positions in the standings were at play too.

Whatever the case, F1 and Netflix will love the extra attention on the sport. Drama and controversy sell.

Also credit to Checo who played the team game all weekend long.
this hits a lot of it. I’m bummed out that a pretty good season and a lot of focus on a thing that for a bit had been only a weird thing I liked amongst my peers ends in such a shitshow way.

the race had some drama (lap 1 incident, Perez’s defense to let Max pull close briefly, and the VSC, which gave rise to the thought that Max could chase down Hamilton).

even if that had all broken the other way, with roles reversed, it would have been an exciting, worthy finale. This feels bad and looks so bad.
 

tmracht

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this hits a lot of it. I’m bummed out that a pretty good season and a lot of focus on a thing that for a bit had been only a weird thing I liked amongst my peers ends in such a shitshow way.

the race had some drama (lap 1 incident, Perez’s defense to let Max pull close briefly, and the VSC, which gave rise to the thought that Max could chase down Hamilton).

even if that had all broken the other way, with roles reversed, it would have been an exciting, worthy finale. This feels bad and looks so bad.
Yup, just seems like worst solution for spirit of the rules.

Red flag? Okay maybe overboard but everyone gets on softs and it's a fair enough sprint for everyone.

Finish under safety car? Not riveting but based on when it was safe to unlap, should have been the ending.

No unlapping and a Sprint? At least everyone is impacted equally. Non standard for sure, but better than...
What happened where only Max benefits from lap clear out feck the midfield battles. Norris Leclerc and Sainz ended up 5.5 points apart. There are battles through the whole standings.