Following the 2020 NBA Draft Class

HomeRunBaker

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Halliburton will be the steal of this draft. BUT Pat Williams at 55-1 for ROY is the best value
I mean sure 55-1 sounds great so a sprinkle would never be bad at that price......but you’d need 4-5 season ending injuries in front of him to be in the conversation. As it is, Halliburton will probably need Ball to go down for an extended period to win it.
 

benhogan

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I mean sure 55-1 sounds great so a sprinkle would never be bad at that price......but you’d need 4-5 season ending injuries in front of him to be in the conversation. As it is, Halliburton will probably need Ball to go down for an extended period to win it.
PW is already starting. The eventual Bulls fade could lead to a Zach Lavine sell.

Opens up plenty of FGA for their shiny new 19yr old
 

DannyDarwinism

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Mason Jones getting buckets in his first real game action. 21 on 11 shots. Offense was never really the question with him, but good to see. He’ll have an opportunity with the Rockets suddenly needing some scoring.
 

benhogan

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Mason Jones getting buckets in his first real game action. 21 on 11 shots. Offense was never really the question with him, but good to see. He’ll have an opportunity with the Rockets suddenly needing some scoring.
#$@#@%@% Mason Jones didn't even get drafted.

Man, there was a bunch of us on the Honey Badger pre-draft

I see Houston picked up Mason Jones, damn I liked him for the 2nd round.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, I seriously wanted him over the Israeli backup PG prospect. Especially given that they’d drafted Pritchard in the 1st.
 

Sam Ray Not

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#1 pick Anthony Edwards is 11-56 from the floor over his last five games (19.6%) and is now rocking a .424 true shooting for the season, on high usage (26.3). It’s normal for a kid that young to clang until he learns what a good shot is, but there’s bad and there’s .424 ts bad. And unlike LaMelo (who has come back to earth as a shooter, now .495 ts) he’s not getting rebounds, assists, steals, or blocks, either. PER of 5.7 in 349 minutes. Woof!

Still a tiny sample from a really young kid (nearly four years younger than Obi Toppin, e.g.) but you wonder if the Wolves privately would not take Wiseman, Ball, quasi-local kid Haliburton and a couple others over the Ant-Man in a redraft right now. Fwiw, Bill Simmons in a recent podcast had it Wiseman #1, Haliburton #2, Ball #3.
 

BigSoxFan

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#1 pick Anthony Edwards is 11-56 from the floor over his last five games (19.6%) and is now rocking a .424 true shooting for the season, on high usage (26.3). It’s normal for a kid that young to clang until he learns what a good shot is, but there’s bad and there’s .424 ts bad. And unlike LaMelo (who has come back to earth as a shooter, now .495 ts) he’s not getting rebounds, assists, steals, or blocks, either. PER of 5.7 in 349 minutes. Woof!

Still a tiny sample from a really young kid (nearly four years younger than Obi Toppin, e.g.) but you wonder if the Wolves privately would not take Wiseman, Ball, quasi-local kid Haliburton and a couple others over the Ant-Man in a redraft right now. Fwiw, Bill Simmons in a recent podcast had it Wiseman #1, Haliburton #2, Ball #3.
Seems like another Wiggins type to me. Lots of physical skills/good athletic profile but questionable desire/ability to improve. Tons of time for improvement but not sure Minnesota is the best development place for him. I probably would have gone Wiseman over him at the time of the draft. I think he and Towns could have eventually learned to play together.
 

NoXInNixon

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Halliburton will be the steal of this draft. BUT Pat Williams at 55-1 for ROY is the best value
I wonder how hard Danny was trying to trade up to get him as he skid down the board, and what teams were asking for. I remember so many of us wanting the Celtics to find a way to draft him.

Would you trade Nesmith and PP for him right now? I would.
 

benhogan

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I wonder how hard Danny was trying to trade up to get him as he skid down the board, and what teams were asking for. I remember so many of us wanting the Celtics to find a way to draft him.

Would you trade Nesmith and PP for him right now? I would.
yea and throw in Bane also who they drafted @30

Sacramento knew they were getting the steal of the draft
 

NoXInNixon

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yea and throw in Bane also who they drafted @30

Sacramento knew they were getting the steal of the draft
I don't think Sacramento was ever going to trade that pick, but would the Spurs or Suns have traded pick 11 or 10? There's a good chance the players they wanted would have been available at 14, and they could have picked up another pick.
 

benhogan

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I don't think Sacramento was ever going to trade that pick, but would the Spurs or Suns have traded pick 11 or 10? There's a good chance the players they wanted would have been available at 14, and they could have picked up another pick.
Spurs will be thrilled with Vassel and his defense

Jalen Smith picked there was a head-scratcher
 

benhogan

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Vassell has had at least 1 steal in every game this year (20 steals) with 1 turnover this season

This draft is starting to feel underrated
 

nighthob

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Vassell was the guy I wanted. His 3&D game would be the perfect complement to the J-Crew.
 

benhogan

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Bane 3-6 from 3 tonight over 50% on the season...

Couldn't we have just lived with Kanter? Was/is Carsen or Javonte really needed.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Immanuel Quickley has come out of nowhere to take this rookie class by storm over the past 3 weeks. The consistency isn’t there as he’s had a couple nightmares mixed in with 25+ points in 4 of his last 12 games. He clearly has “it” with the ability to create his own shot including a deadly old school runner and has all the physical abilities to be a keeper.
 

benhogan

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Immanuel Quickley has come out of nowhere to take this rookie class by storm over the past 3 weeks. The consistency isn’t there as he’s had a couple nightmares mixed in with 25+ points in 4 of his last 12 games. He clearly has “it” with the ability to create his own shot including a deadly old school runner and has all the physical abilities to be a keeper.
We actually talked a lot about Quickley pre-draft around here. It was near consensus that all the mocks had him wrong (mid 2nd rounder by some) and the Knicks jumped on that...

Knicks taking Obi over Haliburton (or Vassell), that won't age well
 

Cellar-Door

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Bane 3-6 from 3 tonight over 50% on the season...

Couldn't we have just lived with Kanter? Was/is Carsen or Javonte really needed.
It was about payroll flexibility. Now, whether that worked out.... less clear, but the move wasn't about the player it was about getting to a certain number to open up your options, and minimizing some of the future year commitments as well.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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It was about payroll flexibility. Now, whether that worked out.... less clear, but the move wasn't about the player it was about getting to a certain number to open up your options, and minimizing some of the future year commitments as well.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Kanter wanted out. There was an article last year about him being unhappy with his role and minutes, and while it was in the context of Stevens having a good conversation with him about it and getting him on board, those are the kind of issues that may make a player want a change of scenery.
 

lovegtm

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I also wouldn’t be surprised if Kanter wanted out. There was an article last year about him being unhappy with his role and minutes, and while it was in the context of Stevens having a good conversation with him about it and getting him on board, those are the kind of issues that may make a player want a change of scenery.
Didn’t he sign with a player option? There were ways for him to get out if that’s what he wanted.

Yeah, he’d take a minor salary hit, but it would have been a very small % of his career earnings.
 

benhogan

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I also wouldn’t be surprised if Kanter wanted out. There was an article last year about him being unhappy with his role and minutes, and while it was in the context of Stevens having a good conversation with him about it and getting him on board, those are the kind of issues that may make a player want a change of scenery.
Yea I think it's this. Kanter wanted a rotational role and Portland understands his limitations/capabilities. Not sure why Danny wanted/ had to throw Bane into it. Just didn't see EK as dead money

The C's have zero payroll problems at the moment. Did losing Kanters $5MM help them get the MLE up? I can't recall. But not sure there was any demand/competition for TT that we needed the extra amount. If Klutch played hardball I would have moved on.

The draftniks around here (@nighthob and @DannyDarwinism) knew this draft was light up at the top but very deep. It's playing out exactly that way.
 
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HowBoutDemSox

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Didn’t he sign with a player option? There were ways for him to get out if that’s what he wanted.

Yeah, he’d take a minor salary hit, but it would have been a very small % of his career earnings.
He did have a player option. I’d have to look into Portland’s cap situation but they used the full MLE on Derrick Jones Jr., so it may be all they could offer Kanter in free agency would have been the minimum (maybe the biannual, not sure if they were eligible this year).
 

Cellar-Door

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Yea I think it's this. Kanter wanted a rotational role and Portland understands his limitations/capabilities. Not sure why Danny wanted/ had to throw Bane into it.

The C's have zero payroll problems at the moment. Did losing Kanters $5MM help them get the MLE up? I can't recall. But not sure there was any demand/competition for TT that we needed the extra amount. If Klutch played hardball I would have moved on.

The draftniks around here (@nighthob and @DannyDarwinism) knew this draft was light up at the top but very deep. It's playing out exactly that way.
Yes, we needed to move Kanter and the pick to open the full MLE.

And I think that was a part of it. The MLE ended up being used on Thompson, which doesn't look great (though at the time a lot of smart basketball people thought it was a great move), but I don't think Thompson was the only guy on the list, it was about opening that option up, and maybe they got TT, but they had varying amounts of chance to get other guys (Milsap, Favors, Ibaka, Harrell, Saric, Poetel etc.) They opened it up to take a run at those guys, turned out the one they got was TT and that he looks much worse than last year, but that wasn't something they could know on draft night when they had to make the decision.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He did have a player option. I’d have to look into Portland’s cap situation but they used the full MLE on Derrick Jones Jr., so it may be all they could offer Kanter in free agency would have been the minimum (maybe the biannual, not sure if they were eligible this year).
Ainge has a long history with Kanters agent, Mark Bartelstein, as well and isn’t going to look to undercut Kanter due to Portland’s situation as well as ours. It seems like a standard NBA favor and a mutual agreement that Kanter wasn’t going to play in Boston this year. As far as Bane goes the timing of this deal sounds almost certainly that Bane was drafted for the Grizzlies and that he wasn’t a guy Ainge had targeted.
 

Swedgin

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Bane 3-6 from 3 tonight over 50% on the season...

Couldn't we have just lived with Kanter? Was/is Carsen or Javonte really needed.
Pretty sure Hayward was still up in the air as of the draft. Moving Kanter was about putting the Celtics in a position to be closer to the tax line if Hayward came back or left in S&T which brought back comparable salary.

That being said, I wanted them to use the pick too. Though my binky was Tillman.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Ainge has a long history with Kanters agent, Mark Bartelstein, as well and isn’t going to look to undercut Kanter due to Portland’s situation as well as ours. It seems like a standard NBA favor and a mutual agreement that Kanter wasn’t going to play in Boston this year. As far as Bane goes the timing of this deal sounds almost certainly that Bane was drafted for the Grizzlies and that he wasn’t a guy Ainge had targeted.
The Celtics also got a (relatively small) TPE out of it, so I'm sure it was mutual - Kanter gets his guaranteed ~$5m but gets to move to a better system, and the Cs get a TPE as opposed to having Kanter leave for nothing.
 

benhogan

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Yes, we needed to move Kanter and the pick to open the full MLE.

And I think that was a part of it. The MLE ended up being used on Thompson, which doesn't look great (though at the time a lot of smart basketball people thought it was a great move), but I don't think Thompson was the only guy on the list, it was about opening that option up, and maybe they got TT, but they had varying amounts of chance to get other guys (Milsap, Favors, Ibaka, Harrell, Saric, Poetel etc.) They opened it up to take a run at those guys, turned out the one they got was TT and that he looks much worse than last year, but that wasn't something they could know on draft night when they had to make the decision.
Good point. Yea they made a run for Millsap, who would have fit this team much better. They also picked up a small TPE and a 2nd. So some future assets

Ainge has a long history with Kanters agent, Mark Bartelstein, as well and isn’t going to look to undercut Kanter due to Portland’s situation as well as ours. It seems like a standard NBA favor and a mutual agreement that Kanter wasn’t going to play in Boston this year. As far as Bane goes the timing of this deal sounds almost certainly that Bane was drafted for the Grizzlies and that he wasn’t a guy Ainge had targeted.
Portland got out of Hezonja & is only on the hook for $3.2MM. Nice move.

Kanter's doing what Kanter does well, 11/10.5 in 23mpg... dropping back on D and getting beat

Pretty sure Hayward was still up in the air as of the draft. Moving Kanter was about putting the Celtics in a position to be closer to the tax line if Hayward came back or left in S&T which brought back comparable salary.

That being said, I wanted them to use the pick too. Though my binky was Tillman.
How has Tillman played? he had a lot of fans around here

in pure 20/20 hindsight, a Precious/Pritchard/Bane haul would have been pretty nice
 
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HomeRunBaker

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in pure 20/20 hindsight, a Precious/Pritchard/Bane haul would have been pretty nice
Precious did work out for Ainge too. He reminds me of a young Montrezl Harrell off the bench. I didn’t see either of his two starts vs the Sixers but his 17/13 and 10/11 on a combined 11-16 shooting with 11 of those 24 boards offensive sure seems promising.
 

DannyDarwinism

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How has Tillman played? he had a lot of fans around here
Very well on defense, meh O with some nice passing Per 36 he's at 15/7.7/2.9/2.2/1.5 on 57 TS%, with a -0.9 OBPM and a 1.9 DBPM . He's 8th among PFs in DRPM 1.56. He's been coming on lately and getting starts, but his minutes will fade when JJJ and Justice Winslow come back, but Grizz fans seem very happy with him overall.
 

Cellar-Door

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It isn't a surprise that in a redraft based off 20 games with no real preseason you'd take the most ready now prospects.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It isn't a surprise that in a redraft based off 20 games with no real preseason you'd take the most ready now prospects.
Is it really that different from any other season? Nearly all of the top rookies are one-and-dones. Ball didn’t play at all in college, Wiseman three games, Cole Anthony 20 games, Edwards, Okoro, and Achiuwa were one-and-dones.

Every year we see older role players finding ways into their teams rotation but would you really use high draft capital on these players over higher ceiling guys?
 

DannyDarwinism

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Precious certainly doesn’t fit that description, but of course. It’s almost as if people wanted to take those guys predraft precisely because they were ready to contribute now.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Precious certainly doesn’t fit that description, but of course. It’s almost as if people wanted to take those guys predraft precisely because they were ready to contribute now.
True I was only looking at the one-and-ones but one of the “most ready” looks like a bust to far in Toppin. It doesn’t look any different than other years from my seat which was my point.
 

DannyDarwinism

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True I was only looking at the one-and-ones but one of the “most ready” looks like a bust to far in Toppin. It doesn’t look any different than other years from my seat which was my point.
True I was only looking at the one-and-ones but one of the “most ready” looks like a bust to far in Toppin. It doesn’t look any different than other years from my seat which was my point.
Sorry, was responding to Cellar-Door, who I assume was responding to BenHogan's Celtics redraft picks. I agree with your point though, and this is well-trod territory here over the years.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is it really that different from any other season? Nearly all of the top rookies are one-and-dones. Ball didn’t play at all in college, Wiseman three games, Cole Anthony 20 games, Edwards, Okoro, and Achiuwa were one-and-dones.

Every year we see older role players finding ways into their teams rotation but would you really use high draft capital on these players over higher ceiling guys?
No, though it's exacerbated by limited pre-season. my point was more... yeah of course if you base a redraft on 20 games all the more "ready" players rise, but it's dumb because people knew they were more ready and didn't draft them because they are looking for ceiling.

Edit- I guess you could argue that Precious wasn't considered ready now, but I think many did see him as a guy who would rebound and defend from day 1, which is all he's really doing now.
 

Cesar Crespo

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watching Haliburton light us up, with Nesmith getting another DNP, gave me Herro-lash last night
PP can't get back soon enough. Haliburton would be such a perfect fit for the Celtics though. Ball handler, play maker, good 3 point shooter, size. He offers a lot of the things Brogdon would have offered.

I still think Nesmith is going to be a good player though and I hope the C's hold on to him unless it's a trade for the 3rd building block.
 

benhogan

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PP can't get back soon enough. Haliburton would be such a perfect fit for the Celtics though. Ball handler, play maker, good 3 point shooter, size. He offers a lot of the things Brogdon would have offered.
yep, agreed. Having Brogdon or Haliburton next to JayCrew is all the Celtics really needed to take the next step. Kemba looked decent against the Warriors. Just need a month or two of that and Danny may be able to cut the losses there.

Also, if there was a shred of doubt in Brad's mind about playing PP over Teague it's been extinguished. So we have that going for us. It almost felt like Brad was reluctant in taking out Tre Waters for Teague in Q4 (talk about desperate). All Tremont had to focus on was ball-handling/distributing/organizing the offense but for some unknown reason, he launched long 3s like Steph Curry
 

TripleOT

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Melo Ball with a monster game against the Jazz, going 34/4/8 in 39 minutes with no turnovers.

After a slow start, his threes are hitting at 33.6%, and he is at 62% at the rim, a good number for someone who attacks the rim from long distances. Melo is very good with his left hand, and he is phenomenal with the wrap around laydown passes off the drive to the hoop, usually resulting in Biz and Zeller getting a couple of easy dunks each games.

LaMelo is going to be a superstar in this league. His trainer Jermaine Jackson deserves two medals, one for getting him away from his father, an another for honing the skills and getting him stronger and more disciplined about skills and strength training.
 

nighthob

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I said it a few weeks ago, had Boston had better luck and were they sitting on Memphis' pick this year, and won the Cade Cunningham Sweepstakes, I'd offer the pick up for Ball. Putting him in between the Jay Crew would be simply unfair.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Melo Ball with a monster game against the Jazz, going 34/4/8 in 39 minutes with no turnovers.

After a slow start, his threes are hitting at 33.6%, and he is at 62% at the rim, a good number for someone who attacks the rim from long distances. Melo is very good with his left hand, and he is phenomenal with the wrap around laydown passes off the drive to the hoop, usually resulting in Biz and Zeller getting a couple of easy dunks each games.

LaMelo is going to be a superstar in this league. His trainer Jermaine Jackson deserves two medals, one for getting him away from his father, an another for honing the skills and getting him stronger and more disciplined about skills and strength training.
What a night for the Ball Bros. Career games for the both of them.
 

chilidawg

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Hollinger with a lengthy roundup of the 2020 class to date.

PP:
Three upperclassmen selected late in the draft have earned rotation spots in their first seasons, a group led by Pritchard. He’s 23, so there isn’t as much upside as with the teenaged lottery picks, but Pritchard is showing this season that his shooting display as a senior at Oregon was no fluke. He’s made 41.0 percent of his 3s and shown an ability to get to his spots off the dribble.

Also, for a guy who was supposed to be a defensive liability, he seems to be faring OK


Nesmith:
Nesmith’s ability to stretch defenses with his shooting on the move was supposed to be the defining skill, but it’s been in short supply thus far. In 13 games he’s made a total of 12 3-pointers and sports a PER of just 4.4 for his efforts. While he hasn’t played much, his efforts haven’t warranted extended run either, and the competition on Boston’s bench isn’t exactly overwhelming. Pritchard, above, has been by far Boston’s best rookie.

Nesmith’s last three games offered some slight glimmers of hope, particularly at the defensive end, where he’s trying to become more of a pest, but after 191 NBA minutes, he’s still searching for his first career steal.


Yo Hollinger, time to just let PER die.

https://theathletic.com/2396477/2021/02/18/nba-rookie-tiers-2020-class-has-been-surprisingly-decent-lamelo-ball-leading-the-way/?source=dailyemail
 

NomarsFool

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As Halliburton kept dropping I was getting more and more excited about the possibility of the Celtics landing him, and (while it is still early days) that one stings quite a bit. I would have thought that moving up from 14 to 10-11 might not have cost much more than #26 or #30 - but maybe Ainge & Co were higher on Nesmith than they were on Halliburton. No idea. These guys are also super, super young. So, it wouldn't be at all surprising if 2 years from now Nesmith is considered a better player than Halliburton. But, it sure would have been nice to have a young PG prospect with size.
 

Cellar-Door

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As Halliburton kept dropping I was getting more and more excited about the possibility of the Celtics landing him, and (while it is still early days) that one stings quite a bit. I would have thought that moving up from 14 to 10-11 might not have cost much more than #26 or #30 - but maybe Ainge & Co were higher on Nesmith than they were on Halliburton. No idea. These guys are also super, super young. So, it wouldn't be at all surprising if 2 years from now Nesmith is considered a better player than Halliburton. But, it sure would have been nice to have a young PG prospect with size.
The word on draft night was lots of teams were looking to move up and nobody in the lottery was willing to trade down. No clue if Ainge would have picked Halliburton, but there was a lot of noise that as guys fell (including Haliburton) teams trying to move up were getting shut out on the trade front.
 

benhogan

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some favorites around here:

Desmond Bane, Memphis (30th pick) — Bane’s 3-and-D package has been exactly as promised thus far, and while the upside here has a pretty hard ceiling, he’s already established that his floor is a useful player. Bane has given the Grizzlies a solid-enough defender who has made 48.2 percent of his 3s; even if that number is outlier high, his track record from college suggests he should convert at a high rate going forward.

While he doesn’t get to the rim on his own, Bane is a good enough passer to have some offensive value beyond just launching from the corners. Defensively, Bane is strong and can jump but has short arms, and his feet sometimes betray him. Nonetheless, if the D comes along enough, there is potential for a fourth starter, and that’s a pretty sweet return from the last pick of the first round.

Xavier Tillman, Memphis (35th pick) — The Grizzlies’ other “veteran” rookie, Tillman is in a similar position to Stewart above: offering encouraging production as a rookie center but nonetheless facing the constant threat of extinction by virtue of a 1990s skill set. At 22, Tillman has less developmental time on his side.

In Tillman’s case, however, his ability to defend on the perimeter and playmake from the elbows offers some value beyond just beast-ball big-man play. Again, this was the 35th pick, so anything rotation-ish is a win, and Tillman has established that baseline already. However, the real high-end outcomes from this pick will only come if Tillman develops a perimeter shot.


Immanuel Quickley, New York, (25th pick) — The steal of the draft thus far, Quickley actually leads all rookies in PER (whatever that is) while coming off the Knicks’ bench and has surprised with his ability to play point guard full-time. Statistically, the Ball-Haliburton-Quickley trio is miles ahead of the rest of this rookie class.

Already one of the league’s true masters of the floater and a crafty foul-drawer, Quickley nonetheless needs to find other scoring outlets instead of relying so heavily on what is a fairly low-percentage shot. He’s a good shooter, however, and his ability to hit 3s off the dribble should supplement the floater package. He’s a keeper for sure, but the question now is whether he can ever put enough pressure on the rim to be a high-end starter.


Devin Vassell, San Antonio (11th pick) — Vassell has me channeling my inner Dennis Green: He is what we thought he is. A plug-and-play, 3-and-D guy from Florida State, Vassell has hit 39.4 percent of his 3-pointers while plucking an eye-opening 3.1 steals per 100 possessions. Among players with at least 350 minutes, only Philadelphia’s Matisse Thybulle and Indiana’s T.J. McConnell have pilfered the ball more frequently.

Vassell’s pathway to becoming a starter involves upgrading his work inside the arc. Shot-creation is still a work in progress for him, and he rarely gets all the way to the rim, resulting in an identical 39.4 percent mark on 2s. It’s amazing to shoot that percentage on 3s but horrific to do so inside the arc. Nonetheless, he’s a solid player right now, and at 20 has a chance to become a much better one in the future.
 

NomarsFool

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Maledon looked pretty good for OKC. Some mistakes in there, sure, but the kid is only 19 years old. He looked a lot stronger than I was expecting for a 6' 5" point guard.