Following Former Red Sox 2018

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
20,035
This is a not a great quote by you:

Bagwell/Anderson gets thrown out there a lot as the worst modern trade for the Sox, but while bad, people forget that Anderson significantly contributed and Bagwell's entire career wasn't irrevocably controlled by the Sox.
Yes, you admitted that it was bad, but even if Andersen threw five scoreless innings every time he pitched for the Red Sox, it was only for one month. There was nothing significant about it.

And Andersen's 1990 Postseason line was three games, three innings, three hits, three walks, two runs, 2.00 WHIP and a 6.00 ERA. He was not good.

Secondly, the quote by Neyer does not address the two specific issues I raised about: a) replacing Anderson with the pitcher in the system that was just not good enough to make the cut otherwise (i.e., the one who would become the worst man in the pen), and b) the effect of Anderson on other pitcher usage, including resting other relievers.
I'm sorry, but these are barely arguments. Larry Andersen came to the Red Sox on August 30, 1990. In two days, the Major League rosters expanded--I would wager that there probably wasn't even a corresponding move that the Sox had to make to get someone off the 24-man roster. Andersen didn't take anyone's place. He didn't move anyone down the totem pole. Andersen was added, nothing was taken away. And like I wrote above, he got into four out of eight high leveraged game and pitched poorly in half those games.

Neyer (whom I generally enjoy reading) has a job - to write articles with hooks. But, asserted in an article or not, some things are just too speculative to have a definitive answer, as much as we might like to arrive at some particular conclusion.
So Neyer just made this whole argument up to sell books? You're being pedantic, this was a bad move that didn't sew up the AL East for the Red Sox. They probably would have won the league anyway and had a very average pitcher to show for a Hall of Famer.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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This is a not a great quote by you.
OK, since you need to overtly hear it (for whatever reason) it's a shitty trade. I think we both agree on that.

Further, the numbers clearly show, in the most scientific and accurate fashion, that Anderson did and could not have contributed to the Sox's final result in 1990 in any positive fashion.

Furthermore, it's a given that Jeff Bagwell would have played his entire career for the Sox, just like Mo Vaughn, and we would have gotten a WS sometime in the 90s, just like the Astros.

You win.
 

DrBlinky

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Jun 18, 2002
725
Cranston, RI
Another thing in regards to the Andersen trade was that Gorman thought he was getting him as more than a one month rental. He was already under contract for 1991 but was then given his free agency in Nov 1990 as part of the collusion settlements.
 

Al Zarilla

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Dec 8, 2005
49,747
San Andreas Fault
Watching parts of a few Giants games the last week and it seems really weird to see Sandoval play kind of well. He’s filing in at first, second and third base and doesn’t look like a fool at any of them. Hitting ok too. Maybe another guy that just couldn’t handle Boston?
 

donutogre

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Jul 20, 2005
1,746
Philadelphia
Watching parts of a few Giants games the last week and it seems really weird to see Sandoval play kind of well. He’s filing in at first, second and third base and doesn’t look like a fool at any of them. Hitting ok too. Maybe another guy that just couldn’t handle Boston?
His OPS is over 100 for the first time since 2014. I have kept the occasional eye on his stats because I'm a masochist, but I truly didn't expect him to be anything than a mediocre part-time player at best. At this point, he's actually contributing. Didn't see that coming.

EDIT: went back and looked at his game logs and it seems he's mostly still coming off the bench. Guess he's closer to that part-time mediocrity I expected, but it's also not easy to come off the bench and hit decently well on a regular basis.
 

Al Zarilla

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Dec 8, 2005
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San Andreas Fault
His OPS is over 100 for the first time since 2014. I have kept the occasional eye on his stats because I'm a masochist, but I truly didn't expect him to be anything than a mediocre part-time player at best. At this point, he's actually contributing. Didn't see that coming.

EDIT: went back and looked at his game logs and it seems he's mostly still coming off the bench. Guess he's closer to that part-time mediocrity I expected, but it's also not easy to come off the bench and hit decently well on a regular basis.
He hit another decent bomb at AT&T today. Announcer said his shoulders were both healthy this spring and the Giants decided to go with him again. He makes the minimum $$, so why not? His WAR is still around zero though. I guess I’m a bad guy hoping he sucks.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Apr 1, 2013
5,255
Adrian Gonzalez has been released by the Mets. Someone might take a flier on him, but he seems pretty cooked at this point.
 

sean1562

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Sep 17, 2011
2,307
Not the HoF career we all dreamed of for him when we got him, but a pretty solid one nonetheless. 42.3 bWAR is def a career to be proud of.
 

Rovin Romine

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Not the HoF career we all dreamed of for him when we got him, but a pretty solid one nonetheless. 42.3 bWAR is def a career to be proud of.
I think Gonzo leaving LA gave us the final number for the Punto Trade, at least in terms of value per years of control the teams got out of the principal trade pieces.

In terms of secondary pieces, we resigned Ivan De Jesus to a ml deal recently, and RDL would be playing for Arizona, but for his second TJ surgery. I think everyone else is out of baseball, except for Flores, who is still playing A ball for the Diamondbacks.

In terms of control being traded for control, RDL/Webster became Miley, who (with others) became Carson Smith. . .but the book should probably be closed on that. For the Dodgers, Gonzales (and others) became the surprisingly effective Matt Kemp of 2018.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
7,594
No love for Tim Federowicz? Made his Astros debut last night against the Sox and chipped in with a double and a run. OPS of .991 in 113 AAA PA thus far.
Federowicz has since appeared in 1 more game for the Astros. After going 1 for 7 in 2 games, he was designated for assignment, and has since been outrighted to AAA. Career slash line of .195/.243/.312/.555 in 325 major league plate appearances.

Other "notables" in the Bedard trade:

Juan Rodriguez (RHP): never made it out of minors, out of baseball since 2012.
Steven Fife (RHP): 6.79 ERA for AAA Columbus (Cleveland). Hasn't thrown a pitch in major leagues since 2014.
Chih-Hsien Chiang (RF/2B): Last seen playing in Australia somewhere. Never made it out of minors.
Trayvon Robinson (LF): Went from Dodgers to Seattle in the deal. 0.602 career OPS in 319 plate appearances.

Josh Fields (RHP): Lost to Astros in the Rule 5 draft. Traded to Dodgers by Astros for minor league prospect in 2016. Appears to be anchored in Dodger's pen as a 7th/8th inning setup man. He got hit hard his last outing on 6/7.

Bedard, meanwhile, was just awful in the 3 seasons after he left the Sox as free agent.
 
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santadevil

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Aug 1, 2006
3,874
Saskatchestan
Bedard wasn't all that great with the Sox either.

I remember right before they acquired him, he pitched a stinker of a game and supposedly had been telling people that if he pitched bad enough he wouldn't get traded.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
7,594
Bedard wasn't all that great with the Sox either.

I remember right before they acquired him, he pitched a stinker of a game and supposedly had been telling people that if he pitched bad enough he wouldn't get traded.
He pitched 4 scoreless innings in the second half of a double-header against the A's on 8/27. He was pulled after 4 innings, having thrown 78 pitches while walking 4 batters, so he did not get the win in the Sox 4-0 victory. Instead, Aceves would earn his 9th win of the season (against 1 loss), with Bard and Papelbon throwing scoreless innings to close it out. The win put the 82-51 Sox up 2 games on the Yankees, and the team seemed well positioned to win at least a wild-card berth, with the 3rd place Rays 9 games back.

After that scoreless outing, Bedard would give up 3 runs in 6 innings in his next start, good enough to earn his first and only win with the Red Sox during their 12-7 victory over the Rangers. He would then have to miss a couple of turns through the rotation with injury, and could not pitch past the 4th inning in either of his 2 remaining starts.

The Sox would go 8-21 from 8/27 onwards to finish one game out of the playoffs.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
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Aug 21, 2006
27,769
Maui
The end of an era for a great LH hitter....Gonzo is gonzo. Remembered not only for that sweet swing but as a part of the infamous Nick Punto trade.
After tonight’s game we have given Adrián González his unconditional release. On Tuesday, we will designate catcher Jose Lobaton for assignment, will recall Dominic Smith from Las Vegas and will select the contract of Ty Kelly from Las Vegas. #Mets
 

NDame616

will bailey
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Jul 31, 2006
1,749
F&M have gone on for several days about haring whispers about Hanley and why he may have bee DFAed and why they're aren't any takers yet. Said there's some crazy stories out there. Anyone hear anything?
 

Tokyo Sox

Baka Gaijin
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Feb 16, 2006
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Clay Buchholz is super close buddies with Trump.

I suddenly find myself hoping his return to the majors is as short as possible.
Yeah. I came to the thread to see if that article had been posted yet. As vomit-inducing as the headline and first few paragraphs are, this is the part that made me start actively rooting against him:
Buchholz, who was married Nov. 14, 2009, at the Trump National Golf Club in Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif., says Trump was unable to attend, but still footed a significant bulk of the tab. They’ve remained friends, visiting Trump often in New York, talking baseball, the Yankee-Red Sox rivalry, and Yankee icon Derek Jeter.

“He’s a big Yankee fan, so he wasn’t big on the Red Sox,’’ Buchholz says, “but he also knew that Derek Jeter was my favorite player. That was kind of the bridge that got us together. We had something in common right there.’’
What the hell.
 

Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
17,535
Newton
It seems pretty clear that Trump—for all his failings as a human being—was a pretty loyal friend to a number of celebrities before he entered politics. What’s surprising is that no one has turned on him since.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
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Aug 21, 2006
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Maui
Yeah. I came to the thread to see if that article had been posted yet. As vomit-inducing as the headline and first few paragraphs are, this is the part that made me start actively rooting against him:


What the hell.
We have had the pleasure to spend a little bit of time with Clay and his wife in the past here. They have been a part of Shane Victorino's Annual Golf Tournament. Couldn't meet two nicer people. Really liked them.

So upon learning of his friendship with Trump, it sours my point of view a bit. But whatever; Clay has never been the brightest bulb in the lamp. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid.
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
3,772
Evan Longoria broke his hand today, so your new starting 3b for the SF Giants is...the Sox-subsidized Panda.
 

Tokyo Sox

Baka Gaijin
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Feb 16, 2006
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We have had the pleasure to spend a little bit of time with Clay and his wife in the past here. They have been a part of Shane Victorino's Annual Golf Tournament. Couldn't meet two nicer people. Really liked them.

So upon learning of his friendship with Trump, it sours my point of view a bit. But whatever; Clay has never been the brightest bulb in the lamp. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid.
Yeah yeah. But his favor player is DEREK JETER.
 

ngruz25

Bibby
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Sep 20, 2005
13,132
Pittsburgh, PA
Michael Kopech is having a rough go of it at AAA. He has a 5.20 ERA in 13 starts. He’s striking guys out, but he’s a wee bit wild. His Daniel Bard-esque line last night:

3 IP, 2 H, 5 ER, 8 BB (!!), 2 SO, 2 HBP, 5 WP (!!!)

He has a 6.1 BB/9 to go along with 9 HBP and 8 WP, although that latter number is a little skewed because it includes last night.
 

Bergs

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Jul 22, 2005
13,058
John Lester just blasted a 3 run oppo HR.
 
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Tokyo Sox

Baka Gaijin
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Feb 16, 2006
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There
Daisuke is currently nursing a sore back but expects to return for the NPB All-Star Game, where he very well may start, since he is leading vote getter. That's right. Daisuke Matsuzaka might start the Japanese ASG.
 

Tokyo Sox

Baka Gaijin
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Feb 16, 2006
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Context please.

Which one sucks?
Neither! He’s made 7 starts and has a 2.41 ERA in 37.1 IP, with 35 K’s. Still walking plenty of guys but basically he’s been decent and the whole country is enjoying his redemption story.

I should note that they usually play two All-Star Games in different cities so he’s more like “a” starter than “the” starter.
 

Rovin Romine

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Jul 14, 2005
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Junior investment banker Jed Lowrie is now in as an All-Star for the first time, named as an injury replacement for Gleyber Torres.

Jed Lowrie’s snub righted, named to first All-Star Game of his career

He's having a heck of a year: Current line is .287/.356/.500 for a .856 OPS, 137 OPS+, 16 HR on the season.

rWAR has him at 3.3 so far, more than 80% of the way to equaling last year's career high.
Man, he sure looked like part of the long term Sox puzzle as a 26 year old at the end of 2010. . .I will always root for him.