Flowers Springs to Detroit

Gash Prex

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Has signing former pats player by former pats coach/gm really ever worked out? It feels like easy an cop out for the coaches. I think he is a great player - but not sure he's worth the contract. Best of luck
 

Seels

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He's not Richard Seymour. Would have been nice, but no player is worth $17m a year except Brady
 

ifmanis5

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Welker? Talib?

EDIT: never mind, I thought you said 'Super Bowl'. Still, those are two of the few guys who left and were more or less successful.
Yup, the all-pro list that I checked looks like this:

Curtis Martin made the 2004 all-pro team and Vinatieri made the 2014 all-pro team, Talib made the 2016 all-pro team and Chandler Jones made the 2017 all-pro team.
 

Red Averages

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So much for that appearance at an AHL game declaring he was coming back for #7!

Pats should have a good amount of money to play with now for some of these trade/vet signings?
 

scottyno

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The Deion Branch Syndrome.

Of all the players that have left that Pats for big money, how many made a Pro Bowl with another team? Maybe Adam Vinatieri? Who's got the answer?

EDIT: Curtis Martin made the 2004 all-pro team and Vinatieri made the 2014 all-pro team and Talib made the 2016 all-pro team and Chandler Jones made the 2017 all-pro team.
Revis made a pro bowl, though that's a point in the pats favor because his jets contract ended up a disaster.
 

ZMart100

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Pats should have a good amount of money to play with now for some of these trade/vet signings?
Not a ton of space really. About 16-17 right now, but they need a K and P and to save some space for rookies, plus probably a TE, DT and WR from FA. I don't expect a lot of savings from a Brady extension. They would have more space if Gronk retires.
 

scottyno

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Made it prior to and with the Pats in 2014 but not after he left.
Pro bowl in 2015 his first year with the jets, not all pro. Then 2016 was a dumpster fire and he was released, so they basically paid 39m for 1 very good year.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Not a ton of space really. About 16-17 right now, but they need a K and P and to save some space for rookies, plus probably a TE, DT and WR from FA. I don't expect a lot of savings from a Brady extension. They would have more space if Gronk retires.
Assuming, as we all do, that Jones is going to get a second round tender that's $3 million off the books in two days.

If it's correct that Flowers signed at 5/75 give or take and you assume somewhere around $30 million guaranteed, that would have been a hit this year of something around $8 to $10 million depending on how they structured it. Teams need to be cap compliant on the start of the league year in 2 days so there's some flexibility but not a ton.
 

ZMart100

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Assuming, as we all do, that Jones is going to get a second round tender that's $3 million off the books in two days.

If it's correct that Flowers signed at 5/75 give or take and you assume somewhere around $30 million guaranteed, that would have been a hit this year of something around $8 to $10 million depending on how they structured it. Teams need to be cap compliant on the start of the league year in 2 days so there's some flexibility but not a ton.
Good point, I overlooked Jones.

I don't know what to expect out of K and P. If they re-sign Ghost and Allen, that's probably $7m or so. It's hard to go into the draft empty at those positions because failing to get your guy could leave you with someone off the street. I also have no real idea how to evaluate what the other players out there are worth. If Patriots fans know anything, it should be that the kicking game matters.
 

Bosox1528

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Good point, I overlooked Jones.

I don't know what to expect out of K and P. If they re-sign Ghost and Allen, that's probably $7m or so. It's hard to go into the draft empty at those positions because failing to get your guy could leave you with someone off the street. I also have no real idea how to evaluate what the other players out there are worth. If Patriots fans know anything, it should be that the kicking game matters.
Gostkowski has been a pretty much average kicker the past 3 years and Allen is basically the epitome of an average punter. I'd rather have someone off the street + the 7m
 

koufax32

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Gostkowski has been a pretty much average kicker the past 3 years and Allen is basically the epitome of an average punter. I'd rather have someone off the street + the 7m
We’ll know the cap situation is bad when BB settles for a righty punter.
 

dcmissle

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And really no pressure. Just show up, play and get your sacks, everyone expects you to lose.
I don’t expect him to leave his values in Fox. He’s been exemplary.

Sometimes the fit isn’t there anymore. He would have been crazy to turn down the Detroit money with a coach he probably likes and respects.
 
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Right?

We have a boatload of draft picks, free-agency to dive-into, and Belichick at the helm.

Trey Flowers leaving for Detroit or any other city ain't making me get the sweats.
Yup, not sure why it took me 6 SB championships to get here, but I've finally decided not to stress about any decisions they make.
 

Michelle34B

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Aug 2, 2006
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Nice signing by Bob Quinn. They've got Snacks Harrison and A'Shawn Robinson in the middle. Flowers will be able to show how he excels at 5 technique, like in the Texans game.


He played fantastic in Super Bowl LI. The first Falcons drive of the game ended with a sack, and Flowers nearly stripped Ryan for a fumble run in for a touchdown.


This is the big time play I'll never forget. Pure power inside with the game on the line. The first play I think of when people say the Falcons lost the game and choked. As if the Patriots didn't make any plays.

 

Super Nomario

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Considering his draft status (4th), his contributions to two championship teams on a rookie deal, and the Pats likely getting a 3rd round comp pick for him, could you argue Flowers is one of the top five draft picks of the B/B era? Obviously Brady is #1 but Flowers is pretty high.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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The Deion Branch Syndrome.

Of all the players that have left that Pats for big money, how many made a Pro Bowl with another team? Maybe Adam Vinatieri? Who's got the answer?

EDIT: Curtis Martin made the 2004 all-pro team and Vinatieri made the 2014 all-pro team and Talib made the 2016 all-pro team and Chandler Jones made the 2017 all-pro team.
Asante Samuel was a Pro Bowler three straight seasons for the Eagles.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Considering his draft status (4th), his contributions to two championship teams on a rookie deal, and the Pats likely getting a 3rd round comp pick for him, could you argue Flowers is one of the top five draft picks of the B/B era? Obviously Brady is #1 but Flowers is pretty high.
1. Brady
2. Gronk
3. Edelman

Those seem like the top three to me if we're talking value for draft slot. But afterward you could make a case for Flowers, Koppen, Samuel, Mason, and I guess the best 1st rounders like Seymour and Wilfork.
 

Super Nomario

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1. Brady
2. Gronk
3. Edelman

Those seem like the top three to me if we're talking value for draft slot. But afterward you could make a case for Flowers, Koppen, Samuel, Mason, and I guess the best 1st rounders like Seymour and Wilfork.
I would probably put Flowers ahead of Edelman because Edelman really didn't do much on his rookie deal; it was all after he re-signed in FA. Matt Light in the second is a big one. Vollmer in the second, too. Cannon in the fifth was really good though most of his contributions were probably after his rookie deal. Branch in the second, getting a SB MVP out of him, then trading him for a first is pretty great. James White in the fourth.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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It feels like Matt Cassel probably has to sneak into the 5th spot.

Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round with nearly 2,000 receiving yards and 18 TDs over his 3 seasons...
 

ifmanis5

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Asante Samuel was a Pro Bowler three straight seasons for the Eagles.
Sort of correct. Made 1st team All-Pro in 2010, the others were as a reserve.

Correction to the correction, 2010 not first team, those were Asomugha and Revis. Pro Bowl is wonky with guys opting out. Voting to official first team ALL-Pro is what counts.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Miguel has the breakdown. This is a massive deal and you can't really get out until year four and there's still 11M of dead money at that point.

Its not hard to see why the Patriots wouldn't match.
 

sodenj5

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Crazy dollars. Miami was rumored to be interested, but no way they touch those dollars.
 

Bowhemian

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That's insane. He's good, and I really liked what he did for the Pats, but there was no way they were touching that contract. And I am quite glad that they didn't.
 

BigSoxFan

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When are the signing bonuses payable? Within 30 days of execution or something? That’s a shit ton of cash.
 

Bosox1528

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I'm no cap expert, but to me this basically looks like a 2/40 deal for Flowers spread out over 3 years to minimize cap hit right? Doesn't Detroit just take the two years of Flowers and then cut him and take the dead money hit in year 3. I don't see how he gets any of that non-guaranteed money
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Yeah, 2/40 with $16.8 million cap hit deferred, and a team option at a hefty price in 2021, is probably the accurate way to look at it.
 

ZMart100

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The signing bonus gives him a fair amount of protection. Cutting him after June 1 in year 3, they'd save $11.5m. There's a good chance he's more productive than other ways they could spend that money. I think the odds of him playing year 3 under this contract are pretty high.
 

Bellhorn

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I would probably put Flowers ahead of Edelman because Edelman really didn't do much on his rookie deal; it was all after he re-signed in FA. Matt Light in the second is a big one. Vollmer in the second, too. Cannon in the fifth was really good though most of his contributions were probably after his rookie deal. Branch in the second, getting a SB MVP out of him, then trading him for a first is pretty great. James White in the fourth.
David Givens has to be high on the list as well.
 

bagwell1

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As much as I wanted them to keep him, when you look at in terms of the 2 or 3 years( that the deal likely is) give me Bennet plus cap room (and probable comp pick) all day every day.
 

BigJimEd

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I think there's a good chance Flowers see most, if not all, of the contract. He's still young and we'll see what 14.3 looks like in a couple years.
 

j44thor

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I realize hindsight is 20/20 but have to wonder if NE could have gotten more for Flowers than a potential late 3rd if they had franchised and traded him like KC did with Dee Ford to SF for a 2nd.

If the market doesn't materialize they could always rescind the tag. For a team that never misses an opportunity to take advantage of the system I wonder if they might have had a rare miss with Flowers.
 

slamminsammya

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I realize hindsight is 20/20 but have to wonder if NE could have gotten more for Flowers than a potential late 3rd if they had franchised and traded him like KC did with Dee Ford to SF for a 2nd.

If the market doesn't materialize they could always rescind the tag. For a team that never misses an opportunity to take advantage of the system I wonder if they might have had a rare miss with Flowers.
They'd have had bad leverage since it wouldve left them with no cap space.