Florida State/State of Florida--cesspools

[jose melendez]

No discussion of the front page NYT story on how basically no one actually investigated the Jameis Winston allegations?
 
While it's not a damning story on Winston per se  (the conclusion is we have no idea, because basically no one investigated), it's incredibly damaging concerning the extent to which FSU and local police suck.

 

[Dustin the Wind]

Cesspool?

 

[Nator]

Patricia A. Carroll, a lawyer for Mr. Winston’s accuser, said the police investigator who handled the case, Scott Angulo, told her that because Tallahassee was a big football town, her client would be “raked over the coals” if she pursued the case.
 

 
This is a very disturbing part of the story for me. Not just that a law enforcement official would say this, but that they would have the hubris to say it openly to an attorney, and not even worry about it being on the record.

 

[Skeesix]

I think it's important to mention that this is actually a new story. It was known before that someone told the client's lawyer that "It's a football town" and that she'd be raked over the coals.
 
It's far different to know that one of the accused took video on part of the sexual encounter and this evidence wasn't asked for. Nor was the video from the club. There are also several more stories about a bad culture at FSU with regards to sexual assault.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I was under the impression that the Tallahassee PD made that statement to the victim and not the victim's lawyer. Either way, based on this article, the lack of urgency to investigate and the poor decisions they made when they did "kick the tires" so to speak, it was a total shit show. 

 

[wibi]

Deadspin has another story up about an earlier rape with some comparisons to this Winston allegations
 
http://deadspin.com/i-was-shot-and-raped-by-an-fsu-player-i-still-cheer-fo-1563858521

 

[mandro ramtinez]

Crab legs are to Jameis Winston what tax evasion was to Al Capone apparently.
 
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2014/4/30/5668004/jameis-winston-arrested-shoplifting-crab-legs-publix
 
If the Heisman winner is forced to shoplift crab legs on a Tuesday night ....

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

Not sure I understand the necessity of a police press conference for a shoplifting citation.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Not sure I understand the necessity of a police press conference for a shoplifting citation.

 
Shoplifting requires immediate police attention. A potential rape can wait.

 

[JoePoulson]

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Civil citation? So the TPD record for not arresting football players stays perfect. Whew, that was a close one.

 

[twibnotes]

You know what they say: lucky in rape, unlucky in crab leg theft.

What a joke.

 

[Infield Infidel]

 

[kenneycb]

My favorite is that Burger King complained he was stealing soda. While using a ketchup cup. If personally applaud him for ingenuity.

 

[someoneanywhere]

Will someone please tell me how Jameis managed to make stealing crab legs a better opportunity for personal growth -- he is, after all, as we are reminded over and over again, apparently by himself via the Manziel Technique; so self-aware, indeed, that he can continually tell us he is only 20, that he is just a 20-year-old kid trying to grow up, so we should all recognize and empathize in his 20ishness -- than acknowledging, at the very least, abusive behavior with a coed?
 
Will someone please tell me how a Publix supermarket was able to employ basic investigative techniques to capture such dastardly deeds, and to apprehend purloining perpetrators, while such things apparently elude both the Tallahassee police department and Florida State University?
 
Will someone please tell me why and how his flaks can be so cynical as to call this, and not a rape, a "terrible mistake"?
 

 

[kenneycb]

Because stealing crab legs in a place full of cameras can oftentimes be easier to prove than sexual assault.

 

[Average Reds]

Because stealing crab legs in a place full of cameras can oftentimes be easier to prove than sexual assault.

 
Rape is hard to prove under any circumstances, but when the University and the local police combine to suppress/ignore evidence of the sexual assault, alert the suspect to their interest in speaking with him so he can lawyer up and allow the suspect's roommate to destroy the video evidence of the assault before inquiring whether he still has it ... well, it makes the crime impossible to prosecute.
 
It really is poetic that the President of Florida State (who is alleged to have been aware of the entire sequence of events) is now the President of Penn State.

 

[Skeesix]

 
Rape is hard to prove under any circumstances, but when the University and the local police combine to suppress/ignore evidence of the sexual assault, alert the suspect to their interest in speaking with him so he can lawyer up and allow the suspect's roommate to destroy the video evidence of the assault before inquiring whether he still has it ... well, it makes the crime impossible to prosecute.
 
It really is poetic that the President of Florida State (who is alleged to have been aware of the entire sequence of events) is now the President of Penn State.

And yet it's still an improvement on Graham Spanier

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Scrolling across the bottom of the screen on Fox Sports 1 right now "FSU investigating reported sexual assault by Jameis Winston."   Another one?

 

[Infield Infidel]

It's the same one. The school is investigating it mainly to comply with Title IX. The Justice Department has been pushing schools to handle this stuff better. (I guess an investigation two years late is better than none.) 
 
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11466541/florida-state-university-follows-title-ix-investigation-qb-jameis-winston

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Winston out for the first half of the Clemson game. He screamed the internet meme "Fuck her right in the pussy" while standing atop a table in the student union.
 
FSU in uncharted waters here. Suspending a player? Not sure the administration has an SOP for that.

 

[Infield Infidel]

That's a big blow, especially considering two backups have transferred in the last year or so. This will be a fascinating game. 

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I think if Dabo would commit to Deshaun, Clemson could pull this off. But the QB rotation is holding them back. Some of the Stoudt possessions are wasted series at this point.

 

[bsj]

A whole half? FSU don't play....

 

[Doug Beerabelli]

It's good to know Jameis seems well adjusted for life in the NFL.   Should help his draft position.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

This guy has a chance to exceed Ryan Leaf as the biggest asshole drafted in the top two of the NFL draft.

Raiders anyone?

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

This guy has a chance to exceed Ryan Leaf as the biggest asshole drafted in the top two of the NFL draft.

Raiders anyone?

Ndamukong may be higher than both of them. And there's a dog fighter and a statutory rapist in the discussion. 
 
Maybe we need a poll. 

 

[twibnotes]

Does Jimbo make this move if the playoff system is not in place? I doubt it.

 

[gryoung]

Wasn't O'brien brought in to clean up a previous mess within the BC program?   This may have influenced his decision.

 

[dcmissle]

He would be smart to stay in college for another year as he hinted. His resume includes one very serious allegation and a bunch of crap that we used to do when we were 16. Given the position he plays, I will not be surprised if we learn next spring (if he is draft eligible) that the well run teams took him off their draft boards.

 

[mascho]

Well this is big (cross post from the Week 4 game thread)
 
@McMurphyESPN  3m
FSU announces Jameis Winston will not play in entire game vs. Clemson

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Yea. Based on investigation of the student union incident. So how did it get worse. Must be an elevator video lurking in this.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Yea. Based on investigation of the student union incident. So how did it get worse. Must be an elevator video lurking in this.

Either gamesmanship with Clemson (didn't want them to know he wouldn't be playing, and have them prepare for him, too) or the RG pc maybe?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

It's good to know Jameis seems well adjusted for life in the NFL.   Should help his draft position.

Stripping down to his bare ass while placing his stink trumpet and ball sac on the face of a female trainer at Tennessee didn't seem to hurt Peyton's stock. I always wondered how this would have played out in today's Twitter world.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Word is he lied about the details of the incident to the administration when asked. So he admitted he screamed "Fuck her right in the pussy" but insisted he didn't do it standing on the table. Witnesses interviewed had him standing on the table. Admin didn't like being lied to. Just idiotic decisions at every stage.

 

[DukeSox]

i mean, this guy is a special kind of dumb

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I'll be honest, ESPN was running down the list of "offenses" committed by Winston over the years, and I was thinking to myself "Self, you used to do that same shit."  Other than the alleged sexual assault, in which it doesn't appear any charges would be filed, the rest were all things like this, or shooting bb's at a window or other stupid shit.  One was "stealing soda from a fast food restaurant."  WTF is that?  Did he pay for the cup and go up and try and steal a refill or something from a self serve machine?  The other was shoplifting crab legs from a restaurant.  Again, WTF?  This is the kind of shit most college kids do, but don't end up on primetime because we aren't Heisman candidates.  Usually, I have no sympathy for these guys, but as they were scrolling through this list like Winston was the next anti-Christ., I couldn't help but laugh a little.  Like I said, aside from that sexual assault allegation that I don't think anyone has much information about and may not have happened, the kid is just doing stupid shit that 20 year old kids in college tend to do, except he seems to be running up against folks like that fast food manager that want to make a name for themselves. 
 
Yeah, it'd be nice if Winston could keep his name out of the papers, and yeah, it's pretty dumb to stand on a table in the student union and do what he did, but who knows.  Maybe it was a bet, or a dare, and I'm willing to admit that I've done some pretty stupid shit like that on a bet or a dare, and if he was exonerated of any wrongdoing in the alleged sexual assault, I'm willing to let this other shit slide if the kid comes across as intelligent enough to realize his mistakes.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Just to be clear, the sexual assault allegation is a huge caveat there.  All I'm saying is that if you look at the rest of that list, there is basically nothing there that would concern me even when taken in totality.  He's just apparently a dumb college kid, who happens to be in the spotlight.  I just went back and looked at the crab legs incident and apparently, he "forgot" to pay for them even though he paid for other items.  He went back and picked up his order and then walked out of the store.  Apparently, he was charged with stealing soda because he was messing around and putting soda into one of those little ketchup cups. 

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

These poor D1 college athletes can't catch a break!

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Ehh. It's not about catching a break, it's just about ending up on national television for every dumb thing you do.  I'm glad I wasn't walking around with a film crew everywhere I went in college, and I turned out relatively ok.  That's all I'm saying.
 
Does anyone know where the "Fuck her right in the pussy" meme started?  I was just having a conversation with my friend, and it dawned on me that it's from Animal House.  The scene where the girl passes out, and Larry is standing over her and the little angel shows up on one shoulder and the devil on the other and the devil starts saying "Fuck her.  Fuck her right in the pussy."  Is that where this is from?

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

The difference between our little juvenile escapades and Winston's. I wasn't the reigning Heisman trophy winner and QB of the defending national champions. He's got a higher expectation than any of us and is that bar really that high? Don't do stupid shit. Don't get arrested. You'd figure after dodging the rape charge bullet, laying low would have been the M.O. Fact is he lives like rules don't apply to him, and it's catching up.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

That's all well and good, but would you not agree that the only reason he's getting in trouble for some of these things is because he's the Heisman winner?  I mean, I was planning to go to law school, so the bar of "don't get arrested, etc." was pretty much the same for me.  Difference is, no fast food manager was going to call the cops on me for putting soda in a ketchup cup because he wasn't going to get famous by doing so.  Every single college kid does something dumb somewhere along the way, and very few get in trouble for it and end up in the papers.  That only happens because it's Winston.  One can certainly make the argument that he should obviously be more aware and all, but damn, it's not like he was doing some of the shit I saw from D-1 athletes when I was in school, and sometimes they got away with it, and sometimes they didn't, but they never ended up in the papers because they weren't a defending national champion/Heisman winner.  There needs to be some perspective here, that's all I'm saying.
 
He probably should have gone with a much better saying from Animal House.  I'm partial to "Do you mind if we dance with yo dates?"

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

All I'm saying is if being in the spotlight at FSU gets you nabbed for shoplifting and acting like a douchebag in public but also helps you avoid getting investigated for a more serious crime like sexual assault it's not a bad tradeoff.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

DOTB, I agree with you that there is perspective on these matters. but the standard perspective, even for a famous college football player (assume that bar is higher than you or I), is moving into the zero tolerance range not because of the public double standard or Burger King managers wanting 15 minutes of fame, but because of this knucklehead kid and his continued conduct. 
 
The soda thing in and of itself is nothing. 
The BB gun and lying technically is criminal conduct, but again on its own, nothing.
The crab legs, again criminal conduct for which he was issued a civil citation, nothing on its own.
 
But put those things in succession, and surround them with a rape investigation, the Title IX protocol, and this latest meme blunder, and he loses the benefit of the "whoops, sorry, just a college kid doing college kid things" defense and sympathy from the public. So while I agree with you that he's doing things a bunch of us have done. I'm just saying he can't be doing that crap anymore. Not with his level of scrutiny, degree of importance to his team, and eye on a future MLB or NFL contract. But hey, its his money, not mine. 
 
As for the "Fuck her right in the pussy" meme, youtube as always is gold. The kid didn't invent the phrase. Here's one vid, there are several.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpbkcMSlCgw
 

 

[Infield Infidel]

the soda thing, he apparently walked into a BK and filled those little ketchup cups with soda. really. 
 
http://www.tmz.com/2014/05/21/jameis-winston-stealing-soda-burger-king-employee-stealing-soda-911/

 

[dcmissle]

That's all well and good, but would you not agree that the only reason he's getting in trouble for some of these things is because he's the Heisman winner?  I mean, I was planning to go to law school, so the bar of "don't get arrested, etc." was pretty much the same for me.  Difference is, no fast food manager was going to call the cops on me for putting soda in a ketchup cup because he wasn't going to get famous by doing so.  Every single college kid does something dumb somewhere along the way, and very few get in trouble for it and end up in the papers.  That only happens because it's Winston.  One can certainly make the argument that he should obviously be more aware and all, but damn, it's not like he was doing some of the shit I saw from D-1 athletes when I was in school, and sometimes they got away with it, and sometimes they didn't, but they never ended up in the papers because they weren't a defending national champion/Heisman winner.  There needs to be some perspective here, that's all I'm saying.
 
He probably should have gone with a much better saying from Animal House.  I'm partial to "Do you mind if we dance with yo dates?"

You forgot the BB gun fight, which deprived a house of most of its windows. Which made me laugh.

But here's the point -- would you have turned the keys to an NFL franchise over to yourself?

At this point, that to me is almost inconceivable. And these days you don't burn a pick near to the top of the NFL draft to plant a guy on the bench.

 

[mauidano]

i mean, this guy is a special kind of dumb

Emphasis on "special".  This idiot dressed for the game and worked out pre-game.  What about suspended doesn't he understand?  And why the hell did it take so long for someone to notice?  Of course TV caught Jimbo fisher telling him to go back to the locker room and change.  Idiots. ALL of them. Florida, sheesh.
http://deadspin.com/suspended-jameis-winston-tries-to-dress-for-clemson-gam-1637269521

 

[Average Reds]

Just to be clear, the sexual assault allegation is a huge caveat there.  All I'm saying is that if you look at the rest of that list, there is basically nothing there that would concern me even when taken in totality.  He's just apparently a dumb college kid, who happens to be in the spotlight.  I just went back and looked at the crab legs incident and apparently, he "forgot" to pay for them even though he paid for other items.  He went back and picked up his order and then walked out of the store.  Apparently, he was charged with stealing soda because he was messing around and putting soda into one of those little ketchup cups. 

 
 
If we're talking about any random kid, I see your point.  If we're talking about a Heisman Trophy winner at a D I school who escaped rape charges because the local police force and school administration moved heaven and earth to prevent prosecution, things are a bit different.
 
It's one thing to do stupid shit because you are young.  It's quite another to know that you are subject to extreme scrutiny and then you just go ahead and do stupid shit anyway.  You know, like putting on your pads and warming up with your team on national television after you've already been told you will not be dressing for the game....
 
This is an entitled asshole who believes that rules simply do not apply to him. 

 

[Infield Infidel]

BB gun fights? Walking into a fast food place with your buds, filling ketchup cups with soda and walking out? These aren't things a random college student does. These are things a random middle school student does. 

 

[OCST]

Wouldn't a suspended player have to stay away from the stadium entirely? I was surprised that he even had access to the locker room and sideline at all.