Finals teams vs. the NBA - who ya got?

smastroyin

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Was just thinking about this. Could you create a competitive team to a Cavs-Warriors superteam?

The NBA is a stars league because there are only 5 guys on the court at a time. There are obviously team dynamics and only one ball, so everything is not strictly additive. Still, even adding just LeBron to the Warriors I think you have a shot at a 77+ win team (assuming no injuries). Nevermind adding Irving to allow you to do a 3 guard rotation and have Steph not always ballhandle, etc. And Love would add some size.

So the NBA team would be something like:

Paul/Harden/Westbrook
Butler/Beal (or replace these guys with pure shooters since we have ball dominant PG? IT4 playing off the ball for instant offense? etc.)
Kawhi/Giannis/George
Davis/Griffin (Gasol? Millsap? Porzingis? Boogie?)
Gobert/KAT

Load up more on bigs which is where the Finals superteam is weakest?

Give each team a month for practice.
 

MillarTime

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I'd go to war with and 9-10 man rotation of:

Guards: Paul, Wall, Westbrook
Wings: Kawhi, Giannis, George, Butler
Bigs: Davis, KAT, Gobert,

I think that team is a defensive nightmare and could certainly win a series, but it would not be a given by any means,
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I think a better question is to see if it could hypothetically be done under the cap with a team that could realistically have been put together (through some combo of draft picks, trades, and FA signings), because I think the field wins this going away. Imagine every time Kyle Korver steps on the floor he has to defend Paul George, or Patrick McCaw finding himself staring down Chris Paul for 10 minutes a game.

I'll think about it while skipping work to run some errands. Kawhi at $17 mil and Davis at $22 mil are probably the foundation pieces of any such lineup.

Without crunching all the numbers to see how cap-compliant it is, something like this would be the best I can come up with off the top of my head as a team that could have been built without too much magic:

Hill/Beverly/Smart
Harris/Redick/Smart
Leonard/Tucker
George/Nance (trying to be somewhat realistic here and not hand this team Jokic or something like that)
Davis/Adams

Shooters all over, defense, toughness, skill, ++wing talent, decent size and length, versatile offense, good role players.
 

phenweigh

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Imagine every time Kyle Korver steps on the floor he has to defend Paul George, or Patrick McCaw finding himself staring down Chris Paul for 10 minutes a game.
Why would Korver get any playing time? Does Korver even make the proposed Cavs/Dubs team? I think they probably beat the field given the month of practice in the original post, but it's an interesting question.
 

smastroyin

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But Kyle Korver doesn't have to step on the floor, really, nor does McCaw. Andre Iguodala can. And LeBron can play 40 minutes in imagination land just like he does is real life.

I guess I wasn't clear (my fault, not snark), the idea is to imagine a playoff series. So you can take the best 9-11 players from Cleveland and Golden State, and imagine you are running rotations like a playoff series. So all the guys you want can play big minutes.

I imagine the super team looking something like:

Curry/Irving
K. Thompson/Iguodala/Korver
James/Durant
Green/Love/Zaza/T. Thompson

You can run small with Irving/Curry/Thompson/Durant/James
You can run a tighter D with Curry/Iggy/James/Green/Zaza
You can run slightly bigger with Curry/Durant/James/Love/Zaza
Hell you could run James/Durant/Green/Love/Zaza

James has to rest sometime, yes. But you can probably always have 2 of the big 3 on the floor at the same time.

I don't know that you can have a team run away from this one. Again, because of the limitations of number of guys on the court. Obviously, if you are playing 82, then rest, etc. start to play a bigger factor, and you have to think about another couple of guys in the rotation that would be exposed against a deeper team full of top 25 NBA talent.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Hard to say because in some crazy scenario where an alien species put these guys together and said if you don't play hard, we're going to destroy the world, it would really depend on whether the Cavs-Warriors would have to go the bench a lot.

If we're discounting the fact that the NBA team had never played before, I'd probably have to pick the NBA as it seems that the guards (Curry / Irving / Thompson vs Wall / Westbrook / whoever) and the Forwards (LBJ / Durant / Iggy vs. Leonard / George/ Giannis / whoever) are probably even. However, center position is where the NBA has a distinct advantage and Green / Love are going to have their hands full going against Davis / KAT / Olynyk.

The game would be a lot more interesting if they played with two balls though.
 

BaseballJones

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You could attack the GS/Cle team at the guard position. Curry, Kyrie, Korver, Klay....those guys aren't great defenders. And you could also attack them in the post, as none of those bigs is a particularly great rim protector or defender.

You'd have a hard time keeping this team from scoring though. My goodness the offensive talent on the floor at all times would be breathtaking.

Using smas' lineup:

Guards: Irving, Curry, Klay, Korver, Livingston
Forwards: Iguodala, LeBron, Durant, Green
Bigs: Love, Thompson, Zaza

Nobody else would likely play, but with this kind of talent, you could even steal a few minutes with Deron Williams or McGee or West.

All NBA squad:

Guards: Westbrook, Harden, IT, Wall
Forwards: Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, DeRozan, George
Bigs: A. Davis, KAT, Gobert, Jordan

Westbrook, Harden, and Wall would score a ton of points, I think. And KAT would kill them in the post. I think LeBron, Green, Durant, and Iguodala would handle Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, and DeRozan though. Well, I mean, they're all GREAT players, but still.

You have to give the overall talent edge to the all-NBA squad, but Curry, LeBron, and Durant alone would be unbelievable.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Why would Korver get any playing time? Does Korver even make the proposed Cavs/Dubs team? I think they probably beat the field given the month of practice in the original post, but it's an interesting question.
I'm an idiot, missed the key component of the thought experiment. Carry on!
 

BuellMiller

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Hard to say because in some crazy scenario where an alien species put these guys together and said if you don't play hard, we're going to destroy the world, it would really depend on whether the Cavs-Warriors would have to go the bench a lot.

If we're discounting the fact that the NBA team had never played before, I'd probably have to pick the NBA as it seems that the guards (Curry / Irving / Thompson vs Wall / Westbrook / whoever) and the Forwards (LBJ / Durant / Iggy vs. Leonard / George/ Giannis / whoever) are probably even. However, center position is where the NBA has a distinct advantage and Green / Love are going to have their hands full going against Davis / KAT / Olynyk.

The game would be a lot more interesting if they played with two balls though.
I'm assuming Olynyk only makes that team for his sweet dance moves on the bench. Or maybe to get his arm tangled up with Kevin Love's again?
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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I'd take the field if it was coached by Pop, with Stevens and Thibs (D only) as his assistants.

I like Baseball Jones' lineup, but I'd swap Paul Milsap in for DeRozan, and (since it is fantasy land) a healthy Embiid for DeAndre Jordan.

Guards: Westbrook, Harden, IT, Wall
Forwards: Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, Milsap, George
Bigs: A. Davis, KAT, Gobert, Embiid
 

phenweigh

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You could attack the GS/Cle team at the guard position. Curry, Kyrie, Korver, Klay....those guys aren't great defenders. And you could also attack them in the post, as none of those bigs is a particularly great rim protector or defender.

You'd have a hard time keeping this team from scoring though. My goodness the offensive talent on the floor at all times would be breathtaking.

Using smas' lineup:

Guards: Irving, Curry, Klay, Korver, Livingston
Forwards: Iguodala, LeBron, Durant, Green
Bigs: Love, Thompson, Zaza

Nobody else would likely play, but with this kind of talent, you could even steal a few minutes with Deron Williams or McGee or West.

All NBA squad:

Guards: Westbrook, Harden, IT, Wall
Forwards: Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, DeRozan, George
Bigs: A. Davis, KAT, Gobert, Jordan

Westbrook, Harden, and Wall would score a ton of points, I think. And KAT would kill them in the post. I think LeBron, Green, Durant, and Iguodala would handle Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, and DeRozan though. Well, I mean, they're all GREAT players, but still.

You have to give the overall talent edge to the all-NBA squad, but Curry, LeBron, and Durant alone would be unbelievable.
A three guard rotation with Irving, Curry, and Klay keeps Korver and Livingston off the floor. I'll give you the all-NBA squad has an advantage in the Bigs, but that isn't going to be a difference maker. And I think you're kidding yourself if you think the Cavs/Dubs squad wouldn't be an effective defensive team. The depth advantage for the all-NBA squad just wouldn't be a factor in a 7-game playoff. But the biggest reason I like the Cavs/Dubs is that I think it's easier to integrate two teams into a well-oiled unit with a month of practice rather than players from 10 different teams. I think this is especially true for Harden and Westbrook who seem to need to be ball dominators. Talent is comparable, but I think the Cavs/Dubs have more team oriented personalities.

Anyway, this is a great idea! Make it happen for charity!! Cure cancer!!!
 

NoXInNixon

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Coaching is definitely the X factor. The talent levels would be about the same, but give Pop a month to get the NBA team working together and I don't see how they lose.
 

JakeRae

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First point, if you are building a team of all stars, you really only need to run 7 deep, because everyone is playing 35+ MPG. Thus, the GSW/CLE team is really just Curry, Klay, Kyrie, Durant, Lebron, Love, Green. The starting 5 is Curry, guard, Durant, Lebron, Green. With Love and the other guard off the bench. Igoudala might get a handful of minutes and maybe one of Zaza or Thompson, but you are basically rolling with those 7. I don't think any team can matchup. Kawhi is the only other guy in the Lebron/Durant league on the wing, so whatever you do, you have a matchup nightmare there. The guard play is much closer as a Paul/Wall/Harden backcourt is probably just as good as the one above. Westbrook has no value on a superteam. The Center position is stronger for the league, but Draymond can hold his own and the mismatches created by playing small don't have an answer. Adding Gobert or Jokic or Towns is nice, and they will create defensive problems for the other side, but not enough to balance the fact that there is no way to guard the Finals team rosters with a true center on the floor. They would rip that team to shreds spacing the floor and exploiting the fact that not even Gobert can defend a Draymond, Love, or Lebron and protect the rim. He can only do one, and when he isn't doing it, the Finals team is getting wide open looks either at the rim or behind the arc.
 
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Sam Ray Not

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Curry-Thompson-Durant-LeBron-Green easily crushes any other five-man unit you could concoct, imho.

Their bench (Kyrie, Love, Iguodala, TT, Livingston, Korver, McGee et al.) would be less dominant, but I think they could hold their own. Plus, you tend to win and lose with your starters.

I've thought for the last 5-6 years that LeBron and Durant plus well-chosen role players could take on any five-man unit in the world, and I still basically think that. Their combo of size, athleticism and skill is pretty much unequalled in NBA history, and their skillsets complement each other's beautifully. The league is kinda lucky they didn't join forces in 2011 or something, or they'd probably be rolling towards their sixth or seventh straight title.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Curry-Thompson-Durant-LeBron-Green easily crushes any other five-man unit you could concoct, imho.
Crushes? Assuming there's plenty of time to coach them up, I'd be happy to take Wall / Paul / Kawhi / Giannis / AD and the points.

Wish I could see that alternate universe where IND decided to keep Kawhi and play him with Paul George.
 

Ale Xander

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Unit #1
Paul
Westbrook
Leonard
Davis
Towns

I'd have either a layup or ft's every possession.And they'd defend well enough to get stops. Who's Curry gonna guard? Lebron or Durant going to guard Davis or Towns without fouling out?

Unit #2
Wall
Harden
George
Giannis
Jordan

Unit #3
Lillard
Hayward
Gobert
 

Sam Ray Not

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Crushes? Assuming there's plenty of time to coach them up, I'd be happy to take Wall / Paul / Kawhi / Giannis / AD and the points.
If there are points to be taken, you're acknowledging the Ws/Cavs are favorites, right? If not "crushes," let's just say beats.

LeBron and Durant are pretty clearly the two best players in the world, and have been for the past 5-6 years. Having the two best players on the floor (whose games fit together perfectly) is big advantage right off the bat.

Sure, the league team could try to exploit some size mismatches with Davis, Gobert, Towns et al. but those things rarely work that well, especially in today's NBA. Size mismatches tend to cut both ways; ultra-quick big men like LeBron, KD and Green can space, pace and run traditional big men off the floor (even really athletic ones like AD and KAT).

You can make a case that Draymond Green is the best C in the NBA right now -- best RPM among all PFs and Cs. Not sure how well his body would hold up banging against 7-foot, 280 lb behemoths for 36 mpg all season long -- likely not well. But If we're just talking about a series, I'd consider taking Draymond over any other NBA big man.

As for PG: Curry's the best PG in the NBA, and arguably the best small player of all time. Not only is he better than Paul, Wall, and Westbrook in an absolute sense (typically outplaying all three head to head) but his ability to play off ball and be the best shooter of all time make him MUCH better fit with LeBron and Green than any ball-dominant PG. Same goes for the off-ball talents of Kyrie, who, fortunately enough, is Curry's backup in this thought experiment. (When was the last time a team led by a ball-dominant PG like Wall, Paul or Westbrook was a championship contender, btw?)

That leaves Klay, who may not be be "better" in a vacuum than wings like Harden, Giannis and George; but on a team with Curry, LeBron, KD and Kyrie, what you really want a 3 and D guy who spaces the floor and doesn't need the ball in his hands, and Klay may be the best ever in that role. Even Kawhi, who's clearly a much better player than Klay, might not be as nice a fit as Klay on a team with four elite shot creators, where his touches would be limited. That said, Klay-for-Kawhi is probably the only change that I would make to a Curry-Thompson-James-Durant-Green starting 5, given every player in the world to choose from.

So, when is Game 1 of this series?
 
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reggiecleveland

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Coaching is definitely the X factor. The talent levels would be about the same, but give Pop a month to get the NBA team working together and I don't see how they lose.
See I go the eay way out and have Pop pick the team, or bring 20 guys to camp. I can see certain stars getting cut. I guarantee it would take a plan to beat the CW team, and specific skills to the plan would fit over star power. The flexibility of Lebron means it would be hard to anticipate before game 1 what exactly CW is going to do.

I still see the CW team being very hard to beat. IF they run with Lebron as finisher and Clay, Curry, Kd spotting up, not sure who beats them. So a plan to slow them down would be the key. Not sure if every star player, Westbrook for example, fits with trying to slow down the CW team. I think you need to go with two or three nonstar guys that will defend within a specific plan.