Felix Doubront: Unhappy

[mabrowndog]

I really don't think he's tanking on purpose. This from his quote in the opening post:
 

"Let me show it to other teams and that’s what I want."

 
Yeah, so how's that audition thing working out for you, Felix? Ready to hop into another rotation and mow 'em down? Pretty confident the Red Sox are swamped with offers from other clubs desperately seeking your services after tonight's brilliance?
 
As for him having the right to complain and demand a trade? Have at it -- in private, behind closed doors. The minute you take that shit to the media -- even in a public enterprise like pro sports -- it crosses a line. Yeah, we all get that there's a limited revenue-generation window for athletes. But there's still an expectation for maturity and professionalism. He's almost 27 years old and in his 9th year with the organization. He's not a kid, so enough with the bullshit excuses for his entitled attitude.
 
Petulant crap like this really makes me miss far less talented guys like Manny Delcarmen, who were grateful just to be in the majors. Even when they regressed they took their lumps with class and a smile.

 

[soxhop411]

“@ScottLauber: As reporters encroached on Doubront's locker, he said, "No" and walked away. Famous last word? #RedSox”

https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/493953149267623936


“@iamjoonlee: Felix Doubront declined to comment on his performance tonight. #RedSox”

https://twitter.com/iamjoonlee/status/493952727693533186

 

[mabrowndog]

Might as well just accept whatever crap prospect we'd get for him and let him go on his way.

 
As sensible as it might be to just wipe the blackboard clean and be done with him, I disagree. You can't just reward players for behavior like this by giving him what he wants. All that does is send a message that you can simply shoot your way out of town the minute you're not satisfied with things -- and that you can do so without going full-on asshole the way Manny Ramirez did.
 
So, no. You hold onto him and let him stew in his own tepid bath of self-induced suck. And you make sure all the other players all see it happening. Then this winter, you take him to arbitration without settling on a figure for the first time in this ownership's tenure. Take it all the way to a hearing where each of his failings and every shitty data point can be thrown in his face. And after the decision goes in the team's favor (as it almost certainly will) you dump him just before spring training.

 

[brandonchristensen]

 
We will pretend he is just giving the crown back.

 

[SydneySox]

 
As sensible as it might be to just wipe the blackboard clean and be done with him, I disagree. You can't just reward players for behavior like this by giving him what he wants. All that does is send a message that you can simply shoot your way out of town the minute you're not satisfied with things -- and that you can do so without going full-on asshole the way Manny Ramirez did.
 
So, no. You hold onto him and let him stew in his own tepid bath of self-induced suck. And you make sure all the other players all see it happening. Then this winter, you take him to arbitration without settling on a figure for the first time in this ownership's tenure. Take it all the way to a hearing where each of his failings and every shitty data point can be thrown in his face. And after the decision goes in the team's favor (as it almost certainly will) you dump him just before spring training.

 
I mean, this team doesn't seem to be going anywhere right now so what the rest of the team think is probably irrelevant, but this is a team that has been riding a wave of 'team chemistry' the last two and a half seasons. The bad, the good, now the apparently bad.
 
So I think I do care that having this kind of public discontent coming from a player, two even if you consider Mike Carp (or the bad mike fish as my wife calls him), in the team could be a bad thing and it is important to make a move to get rid of him.
 
I don't care much for ideals of 'fuck him' whether it's 'fuck him he doesn't get to ask for a trade' or 'fuck him he should be released' as much as I do about what the team will look like moving forward. If the best thing for the team, both on and off the field, is Felix going somewhere else... then that's good. I think that's way more important than some idea that we can't 'give in' to him.

 

[Rasputin]

We know all that bolded shit and Yecul didn't say we didn't so you're arguing against no one and ignoring Yecul's question.
 
"Can you blame him?" For talking? No not on that level. He wants to start and there are reasons why he wants to start. He knows his future is not in Boston and now he is saying what he needs to say to make it clear he wants to have that future...
 
Stuff like "FUCK HIM" and "STFU" is far more ignorant than him talking about his future. In short, reactive "FUCK YOU FOR COMPLAINING" is short-sighted and childish.

Actually, I directly answered the question and explained my answer. We can blame him because it was his performance that put him in the pen. And if he doesn't have a future in Boston, it's because he mouthed off, not because of anything else, really. The way things stand now, he was likely to come into spring training with a chance to compete for a role in a wide open rotation.

 

[Rasputin]

As sensible as it might be to just wipe the blackboard clean and be done with him, I disagree. You can't just reward players for behavior like this by giving him what he wants. All that does is send a message that you can simply shoot your way out of town the minute you're not satisfied with things -- and that you can do so without going full-on asshole the way Manny Ramirez did.
 
So, no. You hold onto him and let him stew in his own tepid bath of self-induced suck. And you make sure all the other players all see it happening. Then this winter, you take him to arbitration without settling on a figure for the first time in this ownership's tenure. Take it all the way to a hearing where each of his failings and every shitty data point can be thrown in his face. And after the decision goes in the team's favor (as it almost certainly will) you dump him just before spring training.

And I'm the one that gets called immature. Making personnel decisions based on punishing a player is really dumb. What they should do is make sure any trade involving him is a good one for the Sox, and if that makes it impossible to trade him, you tell him that and tell him it's because nobody was willing to give up value for him because he opened his mouth and acted like a petulant child.

Then you tell him he'll have a chance to win a starting job in the spring just like a dozen other guys.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Anyone who's played in Boston for as long as he has should know better. Even if he has a legitimate point, going to the press on something like this is always a bad idea. And tonight's performance was simply a disgrace, which makes his comments look even worse. He's had some decent moments in Boston but he's now toxic. Might as well just accept whatever crap prospect we'd get for him and let him go on his way.

Which is precisely why he DID go public. He's a legit #3-4 starter in the NL and doesn't like how Farrell has used him the past two years. Damn the Yankees are starting Chris Capuano so maybe he's that in some AL cities as well just not in Boston. He needs a change of scenery, he knows this, and the time for him to speak is now prior to the trade deadline.

 

[Hee Sox Choi]

I'm with Rasputin above but I might send him to AAA and put him in the rotation and tell him if he wants out, he'll have to re-establish his value so he can be traded.  I'd let him start down there for the rest of the year and let this die down.  Bring him back up in September but I don't want to see him start before Rubby, Webster, Workman, Wright, Ranaudo.  I shop him in the off-season and if I can't get anything I like, I would bring him to ST and hope he pitches well and trade him to a team that could use him.  He can still regain his value by pitching well in the minors or in Spring Training next year "in the best shape of his life" and with a "new attitude."
 
You can't just cut him.  Would be shortsighted.
 
EDIT: Ah shit, I thought someone said he had one option left.  I wouldn't give him starts for the rest of this year.  More important that our other guys get starts.  I'd just bring him back in ST if you can't get anything decent for him. 

 

[AbbyNoho]

I'm with Rasputin above but I might send him to AAA and put him in the rotation and tell him if he wants out, he'll have to re-establish his value so he can be traded.  I'd let him start down there for the rest of the year and let this die down.  Bring him back up in September but I don't want to see him start before Rubby, Webster, Workman, Wright, Ranaudo.  I shop him in the off-season and if I can't get anything I like, I would bring him to ST and hope he pitches well and trade him to a team that could use him.  He can still regain his value by pitching well in the minors or in Spring Training next year "in the best shape of his life" and with a "new attitude."
 
You can't just cut him.  Would be shortsighted.

 
 

 
He has no options.  Sending him down would require a DL-stint (and thus a limited stay) or a DFA.

 

 

[Rasputin]

Which is precisely why he DID go public. He's a legit #3-4 starter in the NL and doesn't like how Farrell has used him the past two years. Damn the Yankees are starting Chris Capuano so maybe he's that in some AL cities as well just not in Boston. He needs a change of scenery, he knows this, and the time for him to speak is now prior to the trade deadline.

The appropriate thing to do is to go to management and ask to be traded, not to go through the media like a jackass and make it harder to make the trade.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The appropriate thing to do is to go to management and ask to be traded, not to go through the media like a jackass and make it harder to make the trade.

Should we expect young pampered millionaires not raised in our culture to act appropriately based on what our standards are? That's the price we pay to have these intercontinent guys on the team.

 

[NDame616]

Not that I think he had a well-thought-out in his plan to cry to the media and throw BP last night, but.....
 
The 2015 rotation COULD be missing 60% of those who were on the 2014 starting rotation (Lester, Lackey, Peavy). Ignoring the fact Lester and Lackey may not be traded, we may sign both and anther pitcher, etc...however there is a chance we have a casting call for 3 starting pitchers that features RDLR, Workman, Doubie, Webster, etc If he pitched well out of the pen and transitioned into the rotation around September for a few starts, he could've went into spring training slotted to start.

 

[mauf]

 
As sensible as it might be to just wipe the blackboard clean and be done with him, I disagree. You can't just reward players for behavior like this by giving him what he wants. All that does is send a message that you can simply shoot your way out of town the minute you're not satisfied with things -- and that you can do so without going full-on asshole the way Manny Ramirez did.
 
So, no. You hold onto him and let him stew in his own tepid bath of self-induced suck. And you make sure all the other players all see it happening. Then this winter, you take him to arbitration without settling on a figure for the first time in this ownership's tenure. Take it all the way to a hearing where each of his failings and every shitty data point can be thrown in his face. And after the decision goes in the team's favor (as it almost certainly will) you dump him just before spring training.

There actually might be some merit in taking Doubront to arbitration. He's too good to non-tender, but he's going to finish the season with ugly numbers and isn't a lock to make the team next season. If you pay him whatever the arbitrator says instead of coming to terms, you retain the flexibility to cut him and pay just 1/6th of his salary if he doesn't pitch well enough in Spring Training to earn a 25-man spot.

And from a spite perspective, that leaves him fishing for a minor-league deal in April.

 

[moondog80]

And from a spite perspective, that leaves him fishing for a minor-league deal in April.

I think there's very little chance he'd have trouble finding a spot on an ML roster. He's pitched well in a tough division and will get the benefit of the doubt for this year.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

There actually might be some merit in taking Doubront to arbitration. He's too good to non-tender, but he's going to finish the season with ugly numbers and isn't a lock to make the team next season. If you pay him whatever the arbitrator says instead of coming to terms, you retain the flexibility to cut him and pay just 1/6th of his salary if he doesn't pitch well enough in Spring Training to earn a 25-man spot.

And from a spite perspective, that leaves him fishing for a minor-league deal in April.

I just watched Chris Capuano start for an AL East team that still has playoff hopes. Doubrant will have no trouble gaining a spot in many rotations especially in the NL.

 

[mauf]

I think there's very little chance he'd have trouble finding a spot on an ML roster. He's pitched well in a tough division and will get the benefit of the doubt for this year.

In that case, you trade him in late March. Going to arb instead of coming to terms gives the FO a fallback option if Doubront kills his trade value with a poor spring and/or a bad attitude.

 

[JimD]

I'm not going to go as far to say that he deliberately tanked last night - he's probably so would up right now with his situation that he couldn't think straight on the mound.  Hopefully the team has someone who's been a mentor to him who can sit him down and try to get him on board with a plan to move forward. 
 
Getting him a few starts if Lester is traded wouldn't be the worst thing if it helps re-establish his trade value.

 

[TimNJsoxfan]

 
Mac: You're a frickin' primadonna, McGreavy. You don't deserve to wear that uniform.
Mike McGrevey: You know, you're right, Mac. I'm a disgrace to the Twins. I think you should trade me.
Mac: As soon as we find someone dumb enough to take you, that's EXACTLY what we're gonna do.
Billy Heywood: No we're not. We're not trading you.
Mike McGrevey: So what are you going to do, bench me?
Billy Heywood: Nope, play you. When it's your turn to pitch, you pitch. Nothing changes.
Mike McGrevey: You know, I don't think that's such a good idea. I have a feeling my concentration's not going to be that good out there. I might tend to forget some of those scouting reports.
Billy Heywood: Well, that's up to you, you're the free agent. Hey Mac, what's the going rate for an absent-minded pitcher who can't get anybody out?

 
His outing last night reminded me of this scene from "Little Big league"

 

[rundugrun]

Which is precisely why he DID go public. He's a legit #3-4 starter in the NL and doesn't like how Farrell has used him the past two years. Damn the Yankees are starting Chris Capuano so maybe he's that in some AL cities as well just not in Boston. He needs a change of scenery, he knows this, and the time for him to speak is now prior to the trade deadline.

How is a guy with an ERA around 5 and difficulty getting past the sixth inning a #3 starter? Doobie was demoted because he wasn't good enough to be the Sox #5 starter.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

How is a guy with an ERA around 5 and difficulty getting past the sixth inning a #3 starter? Doobie was demoted because he wasn't good enough to be the Sox #5 starter.

He's been in Farrell's doghouse since last year and got a quick hook this season. His performance over the entire season last year in the AL East was in line with being a 3-4 in many NL (or AL) cities.

 

[lexrageorge]

He's been in Farrell's doghouse since last year and got a quick hook this season. His performance over the entire season last year in the AL East was in line with being a 3-4 in many NL (or AL) cities.

Farrell's usage of Doubront has not been the problem.
 
Last season, Doubront was 4th on the team with starts at 27.  He was sent to the bullpen after the Sox acquired Peavy and Buchholz returned from the DL.  He was also 3rd on the team in innings pitched in the World Series.
 
This season, he was originally slated as 5th starter.  He lost that role after being the worst of the original starting 5 in both K/9 and BB/9, and the emergence of Workman and De La Rosa.  He has not been the same pitcher that won 22 games the prior 2 combined seasons.  He's also had continuing issues with his conditioning, which does not help his cause. 
 
He has the right to be unhappy, but neither he nor the fans have anyone to blame but himself.