Just drives me nuts. Pats are almost always ahead of the curve. Two TE offense for example is now spreading like herpes in a whorehouse, and the Pats had the market cornered on that until Hernandez went Dexter and Gronk got nicked.
Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time
- Thread starter HomeBrew1901
- Start date
southshoresoxfan said:
lexrageorge said:
That would immediately prompt Felgers 'the cap is crap' logic, which to a degree is true.
Their critiques are kind of confusing, they hammer them on specific moves like making a radical defensive change, moving up in the draft or making a splash in free agency would provide a quick fix. They want them be superbowl favorites for a very small window with these radical changes. Rather than talking about how amazing it is that they can sniff the AFCCG almost every year for 10+ year by executing an 'in it for the long term' strategy which no one else in the league can do, they instead just critic moves that conflict with their GFIN philosophy.
wutang112878 said:
There isn't truth to Felger's "cap is crap" logic these days. He had an argument at one point, which was that the salary cap was rising by so much money each year that the cap didn't mean as much as it did in the past. In 2005 the cap was $85.5 million. By 2009 it was $128 million. In 2010 there was no cap. So when that was his argument, there was truth to it.
These days? The cap is going up per year by a much smaller margin than it did in the past. It actually went down by $8 million when it came back in 2011 and was only 3 million higher than that in 2013. So its now actually less than it was at its peak in 2009. If Felger was using proper logic, he would learn that his argument didn't have merit anymore. Instead, he doubles down and proclaims it with glee because it meets his argument that Belichick is a poor GM and that Kraft is cheap. Does the NFL salary cap have less meaning than a league with a harder cap like the NHL or NBA? Yes. But that's not Felger's argument. His argument is that the cap is meaningless, that if a team wants a player they can get him and not have to worry at all about the cap, and that if they don't get said player, its because they have set an actual dollar budget that they don't want to pass (in other words they are cheap).
Yet Felger continues to put his head in the sand and pretend that the cap is meaningless. Funny, I remember when he proclaimed that the Redskins wouldn't get punished with the cap for their actions in the uncapped year. Oops, they did. Remember when Felger proclaimed that the Jets were going to get Nnamdi Asomugha (at the time a Revis or Sherman level star CB)? Oops, they didn't have the cap space to sign him. Felger's response? Refuse to admit he's wrong. "The cap is crap!"
"Confusing" is being kind. Or it reflects the fact that the target audience is easily confused. ("You're right Mike; those cheap bastards are depriving ME of a Super Bowl victory.")
People who run football teams have a choice:
You can sign players with a year or two left of usefulness to five-year deals, give your team an incrementally better shot (but of course no guarantee) that you'll win the SB, and add the more-than-incremental risk that your tem will suffer at least a year -- but probably more -- of suckdom/abject mediocrity as you get out from under dead money.
OR
you can build a team that has a realistic shot to make it to the SB every single year.
It is impossible to reason with anyone who thinks that the Patriots are somehow "unsuccessful" because they seem to go with the latter way of doing things. "They didn't win the Super Bowl, therefore it's wrong" is a statement spoken by people who either began watching football fewer than 5 years ago or who are just too stupid to bother with.
I keep hearing that Felger isn't stupid. OK. Then he *knows* the Patriots are doing it the right way, but he needs listeners, so he goes all Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Yeah, Superbowls are better than not-SuperBowls. But most people around here can't even remember the last shitty season the patriots had. And its not like they're in some perennial 8-8,9-7 purgatory.
Quiddity said:
I think his logic was 2 fold. 1 - was the inflation effect that you mentioned, which has ended. 2 - is the ability to push problems into the future. When you had both of these elements you had a cap present value strategy you could employ where a $5M charge 3 years from now is worth less than a $5M cap charge this year. So while there was significant inflation, there was value / competitive advantage to be had by pushing your cap problems further into the future. Put aside their team building approach (top heavy) and who they decided to give big money to, but its a strategy the Jets executed successfuly and it allowed them to overspend for many years.
Recently without the inflation effect you can only push your problems into the future, but that still works to a degree when managed correctly. Look at the Ravens, they seem to be in borderline cap jail every year, then they make a few cuts here and there and have some money to spend and the big contracts they give out are small cap charges up from and heavy later. This year Ngata, Flacco, Suggs, Webb and Rice have a combined $60M in cap charges and they are ~$10M under the cap.
So to a degree I do agree with his premise that if you really want a guy, you can go get him within reason. And you can execute that strategy, within reason, for an extended period of time. The key is just not going all in like the Jets
Felger has never said that Belichick is a poor GM. In fact, he has said on many occasions that Belichick is a very good GM, but he's a better coach. I'm not sure how you can argue that. I think he waffles on the Kraft is cheap meme, if it works for his argument, he'll use it.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Maybe he hasn't used the phrase "poor", but I think we can all agree that a very common phrase on his show is "Belichick the GM letting down Belichick the coach". And ripping apart the moves that Belichick makes is a very common narrative on the show. Whether its mocking the trading down (which was a huge success this year), the Welker decision, insinuating that Belichick was lucky to get Brady (or that Brady took steroids), acting like the strategic decision to go for depth is a poor way to go about it, prematurely calling Donta Hightower a huge bust,etc... if you listen to a discussion of Belichick the GM on the program it is portrayed in a negative fashion at least 90% of the time.
Haha
@GlobeChadFinn: Caller tells Felger and Mazz that Teixeira's OPS has fallen 4 straight years. Shockingly, Mazz does not shriek "I CAN'T HEAR YOU NA NA NA."
@GlobeChadFinn: Caller tells Felger and Mazz that Teixeira's OPS has fallen 4 straight years. Shockingly, Mazz does not shriek "I CAN'T HEAR YOU NA NA NA."
NortheasternPJ said:
The best part is when Felger said, "I know his numbers have gone down for four straight years, but I just think he's going to have a bounce-back year." Why? Who knows.
Also, how many wins will the Sox have this year Tony? "85-90" Why? Don't know. Mazz has been a garbage fire these last two days, yesterday he actually said that the Pats and Belichick met with Michael Sam at the Senior Bowl and told him to announce that he's gay. This will allow Sam to drop two to three rounds and the Pats can pick him up in the sixth or seventh round; you know the value rounds. Felger said, "Why would Sam knock himself down a few rounds and take hundreds of thousands of dollars out of his pocket?"
"Because Mike, this is what the Patriots do. They draft for value. But I'm also just throwing stuff against the wall and seeing if it will stick." The last sentence is verbatim. I like it better when Mazz doesn't think. Good gravy.
I have no idea why I turned them on today, and I'm not proud of myself for this, but I really did laugh out loud hearing Mazz bitch about how everyone else is giving the Red Sox a pass for failing to make the playoffs in 2014.
On the Texiera front, someone should reference this article for Mazz today:
http://grantland.com/features/mlb-worst-contracts-alex-rodriguez-albert-pujols/
http://grantland.com/features/mlb-worst-contracts-alex-rodriguez-albert-pujols/
This paragraph should be tattooed backwards on Mazz' face, so he can read it every time he looks in the mirror: "On the eve of spring training, the word is the injury could continue to plague him until June, and possibly all year. So, yes, at this point, we can officially declare this megadeal a bust."
It won't matter. Mazz will never let facts get in the way of a good trolling.John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
judyb said:
Just remember this -- they don't care, at all, whether the local teams do well or poorly. Their only rooting interest is in their paychecks.
It just so happens that their jobs become immensely more difficult when the local teams are exceptionally well run. Which is why they consistently behave like douchebags. They'd be jolly if the show were run out of Cleveland.
What's ironic is they owe most of their success to the success of the local teams. If suddenly all the local teams turned into the Celtics and looked to be cellar dwellers for the foreseeable future, F+M would need to change their tones and approaches completely in order to spur interest in the local teams. For a little while, fans would still listen and enjoy dumping on the local teams but after awhile indifference and apathy would settle in. A radio host's worst nightmare.
No, but his manufactured anger over what he chooses to assume is likely to happen was so ridiculous that it really was like a bad SNL skit so stupid that you can't help but laugh.
Mazz has a bad case of the "reallys" lately. He tends to punctuate his points with them.
Felger: So you're going under 91 wins for the Sox this year?
Mazz: I think they'll be lucky to win 88. I do. I really, really do.
It's maddening how often he does it.
Felger: So you're going under 91 wins for the Sox this year?
Mazz: I think they'll be lucky to win 88. I do. I really, really do.
It's maddening how often he does it.
I thought Dennis and Callahan was on in the mornings on WEEI? I guess they moved to 3-4 p.m. on 98.5 today.
Felger & Mazz officially snatched the "old dinosaur" title away from WEEI today, complaining about the X-Games infiltrating the Olympics. Felger doesn't even know the IoC voted wrestling out of the games last year.
Caller was just summarily dismissed by F&M for suggesting the Jeter retirement-after-2014 announcement might help sign other free agents (e.g., S. Drew). They could not even conceive why only one more season of Jeter might factor in.
Caller was just summarily dismissed by F&M for suggesting the Jeter retirement-after-2014 announcement might help sign other free agents (e.g., S. Drew). They could not even conceive why only one more season of Jeter might factor in.
You all hate them, but here you are talking about them. 
As someone said, they only care about their paychecks. And discussions like this prove that people are still listening and thus fattening theose paychecks. Are you really pissed and annoyed? Stop listening, it'll force change just like it did at EEI.
As someone said, they only care about their paychecks. And discussions like this prove that people are still listening and thus fattening theose paychecks. Are you really pissed and annoyed? Stop listening, it'll force change just like it did at EEI.
H78 said:You all hate them, but here you are talking about them.
As someone said, they only care about their paychecks. And discussions like this prove that people are still listening and thus fattening theose paychecks. Are you really pissed and annoyed? Stop listening, it'll force change just like it did at EEI.
Hey, I change the station all the time. Neither station has a good afternoon show going these days.
H78 said:You all hate them, but here you are talking about them.
As someone said, they only care about their paychecks. And discussions like this prove that people are still listening and thus fattening theose paychecks. Are you really pissed and annoyed? Stop listening, it'll force change just like it did at EEI.
Thanks, Rocco.
riboflav said:
I disagree. The rise of WEEI as the "#1 Sports Station in...AMERICA" coincided with the local teams being losers or also-rans. The late 90s where the Sox were OK, the Pats were OK and the C's & B's were awful filled the phone lines and people tuned in to lament how much those teams were "ruining my summmmmahhhh".
To talk Patriots now, one must invent storylines. The team has been a metronome for a decade; win the division, usually win in the playoffs, sometimes win in the AFCCG. The Sox have won 3 times in 10 years; the Bruins and Celtics have recent championships. It has been hard to maintain the listener levels achieved in the hey-day of WEEI because there isn't controversy. There isn't an opportunity for Bill in Waltham to yell about season ticket prices being so high for a "bunch of losers!" There isn't a punching bag to slam repeatedly for the failures of the local 9 or 5 or 11.
Conversely, the worst sports talk segments (and probably ratings, but Chad Finn would know for sure) come in the aftermath of big wins. "We won!" "They played great!" "Woo-hoo!" makes very boring radio. That's why both local stations and all stations in general keep the celebrations to a minimum and try to move on to other more variable topics. Without F&M's invented storylines, Pats season would be nothing but "Brady rules!".
And I'm not suggesting those invented storylines are good or entertaining or not soul sucking nonsense. They are. But they frame a discussion that otherwise would be repetitive and boring.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Its good to know that after years of wailing and moaning from Mazz about the Sox not signing Teixeira this will get little to no play on his show. And even if it did? A beloved pastime of Felger & Mazz is to completely dismiss things when a player goes somewhere else and it doesn't work out, saying that it would have worked out perfectly had such player come (or stayed) here and we can't pay any attention to the fact that things didn't work out with the other team. So he'd argue that the Sox would have won 4 World Series had they signed Teixeira like he said they should.
JimD said:
If im programming director at WEEI, I go opposite of F and M. Not that you skip negativity, but I'd go back to a rotating Big Show style format, but with well-educated, respected journalist from each specific field you want to center discussion around that day.
Quick top of my head list of people who could be involved would be Chad Finn, Christopher Gasper (underutilized at 98.5, but not sure if globe has a binding contract with them, which obviously would preclude Finn as well) Steve Bulpett, Jeff Howe, with a central host (Michael Holley i think is the obvious choice here)
Skew discussion more towards intelligent, fact/stat based sports talk, not the drivel that goes to the LCD. Maybe it wouldn't draw the bulk of the ratings away from F and M, but it certainly would draw in some fans, and who knows, you could maybe grow a product organically without selling out for ratings, and sell quality not bullshit.
I really use to love this show but wow has it become completely brutal to listen to. I didn’t listen for a good three months because I was sick of the same Pats takes over and over again. I have tried to listen to the show over the last couple weeks since the sox are coming back. Huge mistake. Mocking everything the Sox have been doing. You would think they finished in last place last year.
It got me to thinking. Has this show always been them trolling the listeners this much? Or is just I have heard them too much over the years and am sick of it?
I think it has gotten much worse over the years. They have always needled the audience a bit but in the beginning, it was a good mix of that and some solid analysis.
One more thing. Listening to Bertrand last week when he was filling in for Mazz was telling. He almost took on the role of Mazz and became the same type of personality. Agreeing with Mike and flying off the handle at dumb things. It made me wonder if it was a directive from above because he is generally not like that.
It got me to thinking. Has this show always been them trolling the listeners this much? Or is just I have heard them too much over the years and am sick of it?
I think it has gotten much worse over the years. They have always needled the audience a bit but in the beginning, it was a good mix of that and some solid analysis.
One more thing. Listening to Bertrand last week when he was filling in for Mazz was telling. He almost took on the role of Mazz and became the same type of personality. Agreeing with Mike and flying off the handle at dumb things. It made me wonder if it was a directive from above because he is generally not like that.
I always thought like you, HH. They were a refreshing change from the Big Show at the start, but the act bothered me quickly.
This show would be awesome in the nineties, but these guys just don't know how to appreciate success. Felger constantly attempts to needle fans and Mazz just agrees or worse, admits to not watching yet pukes out a dumb opinion.
This show would be awesome in the nineties, but these guys just don't know how to appreciate success. Felger constantly attempts to needle fans and Mazz just agrees or worse, admits to not watching yet pukes out a dumb opinion.
This show is a fascinating conundrum for me, I genuinely enjoy Felger as a radio personality. I think he is superb at what he does from an entertainment perspective, and I try not to get bogged down in whatever nonsense he is actually spewing. Mazz however, makes the show completely unwatchable/listenable sometimes. I don't think he is any kind of asshole or anything, but sometimes it is just so blatantly clear that he doesn't even believe the shit he is saying. The smirk on his face makes me want to punch him, several times, whenever he goes on one of his patented rants. Always the same BS over and over again, and its embarrassing.
Helmet Head said:
Yeah the Sox talk has been pretty lame thus far. There's a lot they could be / should be talking about instead of ripping on Ortiz and LL for some dumb things each has said. They've gotten more than sufficient mileage out of those soundbytes and it's just lazy.
And I know these guys are not hoopheads but a caller brings up a valid point about lack of parity in the NBA and how since 1980 there have been only a handful of teams that have won titles. Felger says 'yeah I say this all the time' and they proceed to list all the franchises but they completely forget about the Michael Jordan Bulls that won 6 titles over that 23 year period. When you're on the spot sometimes things slip your mind but there are 3 guys in the booth, gimme a break-
They are also overly excited that, in their minds, Mazz is the target of Papi's agitation this spring. It reminds me of Navin R. Johnson finding his name in the phone book for the first time. I can picture Mazz jumping around screaming "I am somebody! Iam somebody!"
I agree with this, Felger is entertaining and on some topics, as knowledgeable as anyone in Boston sports radio.KingChre said:
My problem with the show is when Felger goes way off the deep end on stuff he knows, or worse does the same on the stuff he's terrible on like the NBA, he needs someone to challenge him and reign him in. Mazz isn't that guy. He's happy to just sit back and let Felger go on unchecked, and worse yet also go off the deep end with him.
I'm not looking for someone to just take the other side of an issue just to do so, but to me it feels like if Mazz agrees on a point they both go nuts together, and if Mazz disagrees he just lets Felger go nuts on his own and sits back and does nothing.
It's become brutal for me to listen to, which sucks because if WEEI doesn't get it's act together there's no reason for them to ever change.
They are never going to change and there's a reason why: sports radio hosts/programs have a shelf-life. They talk four hours a day, five days a week for 48 weeks; their act gets old quickly. And talking that much, they're bound to say something that pisses you off or is stupid or whatever and you decide they aren't for you any more. It's just the nature of the beast.
Back when Dennis and Callahan first came on (at 10:00 am every day until noon -- right after Imus, but before Eddie and Dale) I would find ways of driving around so I could hear them talk. Same thing with the Big Show -- the Whiner Line had me laughing really hard and I loved the interplay between Ordway and his crew. At one point in time I liked Dale and Neumie, Dale and Holley, Ted Sarandis and even Mike Adams. But I went from being amused but annoyed by all of their quirks (Ha, ha what's the deal with Mike Adams and his fascination with the 1983 Red Sox? What a loon!) to being extremely bothered by their shortcomings (WTF is the deal with Mike Adams and his fascination with the 1983 Red Sox? It's been 30 years dude, get some new material, please!).
The same thing is happening with Felger and Mazz.
You grow, you change, you absorb new information but sports radio personalities don't. So in this case, it's truly not them, it's you. And that's a good thing. It means that you're not easily placated, you're smart enough that you want to hear new things. The same hot sports takes they were making five years ago when they were the new kid in town isn't so new and refreshing five years later. In an industry where people are paid to be consistent, the audience always wants them to change things up to keep it fresh. It's a weird dichotomy of radio.
The Red Sox cannot be as good as they were last year, and the Yankees will not be as bad. Ergo the Yankees are better than the Red Sox.
Oh, Mazz.
Oh, Mazz.
PeaceSignMoose said:
They kept going on and on the other day about how the Yankees would easily go over 86.5 wins ("POUND THE OVER," "FREE MONEY," etc), and that they really weren't that confident the Sox would go over 87.5 wins.
Guys, this is all schtick. All of it. Every single one of Mazz' Yankee loving screeds are schtick. On Wednesday (I think?) some guy called in the 5:00 hour and proceeded to rip Mazz for the three things he said LAST YEAR about the Red Sox. As the guy was remembering what Mazz said five, six, seven months ago, you could actually hear the glee in Mazz' voice because he said something that stuck in this guy's head last summer and caused him to call back in the dead of winter.
These guys talk so much and say so much that their words are essentially meaningless and they know it -- I mean, it's one of the reasons why I liked them to begin with, they were in on the whole joke of sports radio! But when someone calls back in February and parrots what was said in August and September, they know that they have something. And they're going to keep going to that well all year. So, you best get ready for it because it's coming back and it's going to be dialed up.
These guys talk so much and say so much that their words are essentially meaningless and they know it -- I mean, it's one of the reasons why I liked them to begin with, they were in on the whole joke of sports radio! But when someone calls back in February and parrots what was said in August and September, they know that they have something. And they're going to keep going to that well all year. So, you best get ready for it because it's coming back and it's going to be dialed up.
Yesterday, while discussing the resurgent MFY, a caller suggested "looking at some games first."
Mazz responds, "OK, check back in on May 15th, that's f..."
Felger butts in, "Hold on. That's no fun. Let's keep going on this now."
Mazz was about to be reasonable and Felger cut him off. Partly because like JMOH says, it's all a troll. And partly because Felger knows that by May 15th the MFY might be in last place and they will be denying having ever said these things and then it won't be "fun".
And Grady Sizemore's best "comp", Mazz? It's Brian Roberts - a guy with a big name and an injury history a mile long. The difference being, of course, the Sox "backup plan" is JBJ and the Yankees backup plan is either Brendan Ryan or Kelly Johnson. Unproven vs. proven shit.
Mazz responds, "OK, check back in on May 15th, that's f..."
Felger butts in, "Hold on. That's no fun. Let's keep going on this now."
Mazz was about to be reasonable and Felger cut him off. Partly because like JMOH says, it's all a troll. And partly because Felger knows that by May 15th the MFY might be in last place and they will be denying having ever said these things and then it won't be "fun".
And Grady Sizemore's best "comp", Mazz? It's Brian Roberts - a guy with a big name and an injury history a mile long. The difference being, of course, the Sox "backup plan" is JBJ and the Yankees backup plan is either Brendan Ryan or Kelly Johnson. Unproven vs. proven shit.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Yep, the guy you're referring to that called in told Mazz that he had the worst predictions in journalism, to which Felger replied, "this isn't journalism; this is infotainment."
