Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

PBDWake

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Welch beat out Clemens due to more wins, so we have to vote that way all the time! 20 years later!

He's deliberately jerking our chains. No one who has an IQ higher than that of a Scottish Terrier believes the shit he's spewing.
I got to hear him mention the infamous Steve Carlton year as to how good pitchers overcome terrible teams. Which actually amused me, because Joe Posnanski brought this one up. That if you overlay Carlton's year on the Seattle offense, and adjust for offensive inflation, Carlton drops to 20-10, or something of the sort. And then if you adjust for 5 man rotations, pitch counts, and essentially slim him down to Felix's innings total, he basically comes out to have a similar win total to Felix.
 

Harry Hooper

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Welch beat out Clemens due to more wins, so we have to vote that way all the time! 20 years later!

He's deliberately jerking our chains. No one who has an IQ higher than that of a Scottish Terrier believes the shit he's spewing.

Jerking our chains? Why believe that? Speaking of Welch's win, I remember Cafardo being indignant at anyone even suggesting 27 wins did not equal CYA winner. The ink-stained wretches love those W-L records.
 

TheRealness

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I turned it on actually hoping they'd be talking Bruins or Pats. Maybe they'll switch later.
Nope. They talked for about 5 minutes about Manning making Tamme a TE stud, and how it's really about Manning being good. Then they went to Felix.

Nobody cares about the AL Cy Young, especially with the Colts this weekend, the Durantula in town tonight, and the Bruins winning two straight back-to-back games.

But hey, let's continue to alienate our fan base by talking about a pitcher that 90% of the audience does not give a shit about.
 

PBDWake

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Nobody cares about the AL Cy Young, especially with the Colts this weekend, the Durantula in town tonight, and the Bruins winning two straight back-to-back games.
Not saying this to be a dick or anything, but just in case you didn't know, doesn't look like Durantula is gonna be playing in town tonight. He's likely out.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Jerking our chains? Why believe that? Speaking of Welch's win, I remember Cafardo being indignant at anyone even suggesting 27 wins did not equal CYA winner. The ink-stained wretches love those W-L records.
Because I've heard enough of Mazz over the years to think that he's deliberately putting on an inflammatory argument he doesn't really believe in order to get people to listen/ call in. Come on. "We voted this way once so we have to vote this way until the end of time"? Who really thinks that way?

And Mazz is a different generation than Cafardo.
 
Lately, I've been trying not to post too much in this thread because I come off like a whiny bitch, but I'm pretty much done with these guys for a while. I haven't listened much the past two weeks and when I do, it's a lot of the same horrible baseball talk from Mazz. The dog stuff from Felger really bothered me too (but I'm biased) and I just think that it's the same old stuff day after day. It's too bad because I loved the show for much of 2010 but I'm going to take the next few months off - at least until the B's and C's dominate the conversation when the playoffs start to draw near.
 

AquaNarc

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Because I've heard enough of Mazz over the years to think that he's deliberately putting on an inflammatory argument he doesn't really believe in order to get people to listen/ call in. Come on. "We voted this way once so we have to vote this way until the end of time"? Who really thinks that way?
I didn't hear this latest rant, but I actually think there's something to this. I vaguely remember Mazz making almost the exact opposite argument years ago on The Big Show, I specifically remember him saying something to the effect of, "At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is how many runs you gave up." Now granted, this was before the days of 13 and 15 win pitchers getting the Cy, I can't remember what year specifically but I'm guessing they were talking about some guy with 18 wins getting over a guy with 19. So I doubt that he's totally just playing a character here, but at this point anyone who doesn't realize that these guys are playing the same game as WEEI only on different team is deluding themselves.
 

underhandtofirst

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Mazz needs these simple criteria to determine who should win the awards. He doesnt want to have to watch the games. Just sort the pitchers by the W column and you're all set.

Also, tonight was the first time I was wishing 98.5 was an MA station when I went through the tunnel at the end of Storrow. It would have been nice if the radio cut out there. Anyway, I hung on for a few more seconds as they went on and on about boring Red Sox players. They seriously dont want to watch the games, they only want stories.

I'm finding myself listening to other stuff much more often. They have not had a single baseball conversation about a player that involves actual talent. It's more evidence they want to take the easy way out. Give them stories and characters, dont give them a team that plays as a team.

That new ratings book has to be out soon, I really hope they get destroyed, but I fear they'll get news that pushes them towards more crappy radio. Get Mazz out of there before he wrecks Felger's radio career.
 

dcmissle

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Today should be interesting because Felgie has to be all-in for the Pats if he has a shred of integrity. Yesterday was his litmus test, and the Pats passed it.
 

dcmissle

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I do too. Great point about the fans being too rough on the defense. But Felgie appears to be moving the goal post.

He said after Moss was jettisoned to "book" the AFC Championship game.

Then he said Sunday's game against the Colts was pivotal.

Now that they have won it, Felger is saying the offense has to improve if the Pats are to be a "SB team"

Mazz should be all over him on this, particularly since Mazz isn't as deep into the Kool Aid.

EDIT -- Felger very strong today. Mazz had a priceless comment -- "Those complaining based on the final score are making a comment that could only be made by someone who didn't watch the game."
 

HomeBrew1901

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I do too. Great point about the fans being too rough on the defense. But Felgie appears to be moving the goal post.

He said after Moss was jettisoned to "book" the AFC Championship game.

Then he said Sunday's game against the Colts was pivotal.

Now that they have won it, Felger is saying the offense has to improve if the Pats are to be a "SB team"
I think it was the way they won that has Felger moving the goal posts. Manning is expected to score 28 points, especially against this defense, the offense isn't expected to turtle twice a in a row during the 4th quarter when all they need to do is take some time off the clock. Especially after scoring 31 points.

edit: His biggest beef with this team has been the way they have squandered leads late in games the last two years and I don't think there was a fan watching last night that hadn't mentally prepared themselves for an excruciating loss. Those final 10 minutes were painful to watch and got even more painful after each punt by the offense.
 

Mystic Merlin

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They're right, but their comments - as usual - lack context.

What teams in the NFL are currently 'closing out' games? Green Bay? Maybe?

Even the so-called 'top' teams are throwing up stinkers and looking like winless teams for quarters at a time. We saw it with Pittsburgh, both New York teams, Indy, Philly, etc. That's just the complexion of the league this year, and I think that - while they are correct in having some misgivings about this team late in games and taking them to task for it - they should be a little more aware of what we're looking at here. You'd think the Patriots were 5-5 at times the way some people talk.
 

dcmissle

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I think Felger's main point here is that the Pats are more dependent on their offense than others because of the kiddie corps defense, which isn't getting substantially better this season. i think he is right about that.

Since my post above, he has reaffirmed his "booking" of the CCG. He's now saying that if they want to win the SB, the offense has to be more dependable.
 

lexrageorge

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I think Felger's main point here is that the Pats are more dependent on their offense than others because of the kiddie corps defense, which isn't getting substantially better this season. i think he is right about that.

Since my post above, he has reaffirmed his "booking" of the CCG. He's now saying that if they want to win the SB, the offense has to be more dependable.

Except, the defense has gotten better. Why the 3 interceptions don't seem to "count" is beyond me.
 

dcmissle

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Except, the defense has gotten better. Why the 3 interceptions don't seem to "count" is beyond me.
Of course they count; one of them cemented the game.

His point is -- 28 points/400 yards in the air: it's unrealistic to expect this defense this year to manage much better than that against Manning absent really bad playing conditions.

Do you disagree with that?
 

HomeBrew1901

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Of course they count; one of them cemented the game.

His point is -- 28 points/400 yards in the air: it's unrealistic to expect this defense this year to manage much better than that against Manning absent really bad playing conditions.

Do you disagree with that?
Exactly, the defense played OK, especially against Manning, but could have used some help by the Offense at the end, two more first downs would have been huge in taking time off the clock and not giving Manning enough time to engineer that final drive that ended in an interception.
 

lexrageorge

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Of course they count; one of them cemented the game.

His point is -- 28 points/400 yards in the air: it's unrealistic to expect this defense this year to manage much better than that against Manning absent really bad playing conditions.

Do you disagree with that?
I agree. The offense needed to perform, as it was likely going to take a 3-spot to win the game. The two 3-and-outs by the offense were a killer in the 4th.
 

AquaNarc

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I do too. Great point about the fans being too rough on the defense. But Felgie appears to be moving the goal post.

He said after Moss was jettisoned to "book" the AFC Championship game.

Then he said Sunday's game against the Colts was pivotal.

Now that they have won it, Felger is saying the offense has to improve if the Pats are to be a "SB team"

Mazz should be all over him on this, particularly since Mazz isn't as deep into the Kool Aid.

EDIT -- Felger very strong today. Mazz had a priceless comment -- "Those complaining based on the final score are making a comment that could only be made by someone who didn't watch the game."
You're not following the Felger narrative closely enough. He said without Moss the offense would be better in "clutch" situations, like the last two possessions Sunday evening. They failed in both, so he has to kill them to be (his favorite word) "consistent." People get caught up in the objectivity/contrarian thing with Felger but above all he's a slave to his precious narratives. It's the same reason he loves conspiracy theories. There has to be a reason for everything, nothing is just "what happened."
 

HomeBrew1901

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You're not following the Felger narrative closely enough. He said without Moss the offense would be better in "clutch" situations, like the last two possessions Sunday evening. They failed in both, so he has to kill them to be (his favorite word) "consistent." People get caught up in the objectivity/contrarian thing with Felger but above all he's a slave to his precious narratives. It's the same reason he loves conspiracy theories. There has to be a reason for everything, nothing is just "what happened."
If only you had something else to listen to during the day because you apparently can't stand Felger and Mazz and "know" what Ordway and Smerlas are "really" thinking when they defend Sterger. Seriously, you come off as an obnoxious know-it-all in a number of threads in this forum and appear to be a slave to your own precious narratives.
 

Blacken

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If only you had something else to listen to during the day because you apparently can't stand Felger and Mazz and "know" what Ordway and Smerlas are "really" thinking when they defend Sterger. Seriously, you come off as an obnoxious know-it-all in a number of threads in this forum and appear to be a slave to your own precious narratives.
Except in this case, he's right.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Except in this case, he's right.
Which case? That Felger loves to listen to himself speak? That Felger is wrong about the Patriots Offense and they need Moss?

You might not agree, but yesterday's show was one of the reasons that a lot of people like Felger and as noted it was pretty difficult to argue many of his points yesterday. At the very least he was able to back up his opinions and why he felt the way he did as opposed to Mazz and his one trick "The Red Sox suck because they didn't get Teixeira" schtick.

With Felger he doesn't come off as schticky, yes he moves the goal posts, but he at least backs it up.
 

Gambler7

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Just a warning...Mazz is going to have a field day with this Victor Martinez report that the Sox didn't sign him because of 8 million dollar difference over 4 years. He is salivating as we speak.

Edit: I also agree, yesterday was a GREAT show
 

Curtis_Lesspanic

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You're not following the Felger narrative closely enough. He said without Moss the offense would be better in "clutch" situations, like the last two possessions Sunday evening. They failed in both, so he has to kill them to be (his favorite word) "consistent." People get caught up in the objectivity/contrarian thing with Felger but above all he's a slave to his precious narratives. It's the same reason he loves conspiracy theories. There has to be a reason for everything, nothing is just "what happened."
I think the overall point was that the offense would be more consistent and less trick or treat without Moss. You can hardly argue with the results from the first half. That was classic Brady making high percentage passes and moving the chains. There was no pressure to waste a down on a low percentage down field throw to keep Randy's head in the game and frankly given the number of times they had to convert on 3rd down, they couldn't afford to stroke any egos. I also thought he put plenty of blame on the offense for going to conservative down the stretch and not going with the game plan that got you the lead up till that point.
 

AquaNarc

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if the fans/media in this town run Theo out of town I will kill someone, either myself or somebody else I can't promise which.
 

Blacken

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Which case? That Felger loves to listen to himself speak?
That Felger masturbates furiously to his conceived storylines and narratives, mostly. Witness everything he and Mazz ever say about the Red Sox, for example.
 

Phenom

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I don't have a problem with criticizing the Red Sox today.

I do have a problem with making ridiculous statements like, "the Red Sox run themselves like a small market team."

McAdam is on "The Big Show" today. I think I'm going to check over there for some grown-up baseball talk.
 

Salem's Lot

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Felger: "They're scared of long term deals because they want to maintain flexibility for a sale, it's the only thing that makes sense to me."

Where does he come up with this shit. Maybe Theo just doesn't want to get locked into at DH $13 million in year 3-4.
 

Soxbrained

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I've moved on to EEI. You can criticize this non-move (I for one don't like it) without getting all ridiculous about it. Jeez. At least there's McAdam on the other side.
 

Gambler7

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I like Tony's analysis that they signed Beckett to keep him here long term because they didn't want to look bad with the Hanley deal. You know, the one where the two guys they traded for were most responsible for the 07 championship.
 

PBDWake

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Shit, don't just turn them off. Never turn them on. We KNOW what their reaction will be to the news. Don't give them ANYTHING. Does Tony's narrative surprise ANYONE?
 

Blacken

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Tony's schtick is unsurprising. Glad I didn't even turn on the stream today.
 

jsinger121

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Tony is completely wrong on the the Sox not getting the Tigers 1st round pick. He is such a moron.
 

wutang112878

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I heard this too, so ridiculous. In football Felger argues that the cap is crap, uses the Jets as an example 'they can go get whoever they want whenever they want' and doesnt realize that ultimately one day they are going to have a mess of horrible cap hits and every year they are going to have to find ways to restructure contracts to get under the cap. In basketball he doesnt like what the Celtics did because they 'didnt spend' even though they used all available options to spend and acquire players, he wanted them to go get a star which wasnt possible without trading a valuable commodity on the roster that we cant sacrifice and still be a contender. So in these 2 sports they want the teams to almost or actually circumvent the rules of the league. Then the Bruins who had a history of being cheap, start spending and are against the cap and Felger gives them crap for the new Chara extension and other deals he 'didnt like' because they are now right up to the cap. Now for the RedSox they are basically pushing spending, spending and more spending and will probably continue to do so until the entire roster is filled with old overpaid players and we have to go out and dump salary and tear the team down before we can even rebuild it.

So I guess their consistent message across all 4 sports is 'spend as much as you can, and I wont critique those moves as long as you can keep spending. But once you cant spend anymore, I am going to criticize you for even the smallest deals where you overpaid'. That makes perfect sense.

This is just an attempt to grab ratings, sadly I thought these guys might be above it. Currently all 4 of our major sports teams are good teams that actually all had/have a shot at a title at the start of the season, Pats have been spending to the cap, Celts are over the cap and into the luxury tax, Bruins are at the cap, and the RedSox are just below the luxury tax. None of these teams are examples of being cheap, what they are saying is really baseless
 

Caspir

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if the fans/media in this town run Theo out of town I will kill someone, either myself or somebody else I can't promise which.
Yes, if the GM of the Red Sox leaves his job, it will be the fault of the media being giant meanies and the fans not loving him enough.

Mazz needs to be briefed on comp picks. He keeps saying the Sox got a second/sandwich from Detroit.
 

Razor Shines

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When I turn off the radio, it's still a little frustrating to know that one of the most prominent baseball columnists in Boston is taking such idiotic positions, even if he doesn't honestly believe them. It would be more understandable if this were Eric Wilbur or some other knucklehead blogger, but Tony Mazz has been covering the Red Sox for what, 20 years?

Perhaps Tony sees CHB's formula for success (Step 1: become most hated media figure in town, Step 2: profit).