Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

Patriot_Reign

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First time I tuned in to F&M in a long time because Wyc is on now. Wyc calls Mazz a troll for clickbait and wanting to go viral over his "rigged lottery" take.
Maz's "the lottery was rigged!" take is pure king troll bullshit. If it were ever to get out that the league set up the draft by what they felt was the "best story" for the league as a whole and not random balls being drawn they would get sued to kingdom come from various team owners, among others. If you're the NY Knicks and worth a ton of money yet struggling and the NBA cooks your #1 draft pick from you...just because. You. are. pissed. Not to mention the third party firm who oversees the lottery sees their reputation destroyed.
There's way too much to lose just because you want to do a friendly for the Pelicans.
I mean, even Felger was like you can't be serious with this take, it's stupid. Yet Tony doubled down on it, and was rightfully called out on it without being prompted by Wyc.
 

steveluck7

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Another big problem with their theory (Jim Murray was perhaps more adamant about it being rigged) is that if you spend 2 seconds thinking about any lottery team, you could come up with some conspiracy theory for them winning the lottery.
 

j-man

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vic is a class guy i have always had a soft spot for the C'S bill Russell is one of my fav players my dad loves larry bird
 

Dick Pole Upside

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Another big problem with their theory (Jim Murray was perhaps more adamant about it being rigged) is that if you spend 2 seconds thinking about any lottery team, you could come up with some conspiracy theory for them winning the lottery.
I think the difference being that Mazz declared that it was fixed based on selective interpretations of events; Murray just wants it to be rigged because of all the drama.

Mazz is a phony who tries to come across as erudite... Murray will readily admit he's just a fan and enjoys the hysteria/schadenfreude of any given sports situation.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Maz's "the lottery was rigged!" take is pure king troll bullshit. If it were ever to get out that the league set up the draft by what they felt was the "best story" for the league as a whole and not random balls being drawn they would get sued to kingdom come from various team owners, among others. If you're the NY Knicks and worth a ton of money yet struggling and the NBA cooks your #1 draft pick from you...just because. You. are. pissed. Not to mention the third party firm who oversees the lottery sees their reputation destroyed.
There's way too much to lose just because you want to do a friendly for the Pelicans.
I mean, even Felger was like you can't be serious with this take, it's stupid. Yet Tony doubled down on it, and was rightfully called out on it without being prompted by Wyc.

I heard the portion leading into that call and Felger didn't quite shoot it down completely. Even he said the machines themselves could be hacked and the firm would never know about it, so he dismissed the whole idea of their reputation being destroyed unless they were complicit in the rigging.

It was basically him saying it could still be rigged but may not be some major conspiracy.
 

Patriot_Reign

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Obviously anything could be 'hacked'. But in this situation the context was someone from NBA corporate picking the lottery order deliberately, which would be impossible with a third party overseeing the actual lottery drawing. Unless of course the third party was also in on it. Just too much to lose from all sides to rig it.
 

j-man

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i think NO and Mem are the 2 poorest reauve teams in the nba but funny story

i was Mem in my gm in 2k and i meesed around got Mitchell robinson from ny for chander parnos and robert williams from bos sent dillion brooks to bos got a 1st round pick from orl and won the lottery and bos got the num 2 pick and won the championship over hou

when i was finesh i started with just a 2nd well i had 2 1st and 2 2nds at the end my lineup was pg conley sg romeo langord sf jared jackson jr pf zion c m Robinson
 

NDame616

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Mazz starting laughing at Canada having Victoria Day which is a celebration of the Queens birthday.
"Can you imagine having that in the US? Line a Clinton Day or a Kennedy Day? Hahahahaha"

Yea, imagine if we had a holiday in the US based on a President's birthday...
 

ramfan

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Earlier in the day, Mazz was complaining why all the positive articles on Michael Chavis. Why aren't more people talking about his PED suspension? He said the Red Sox were trying to get rid of him at the trade deadline because they know something. On the way home during the baseball show he said Chavis should shut up, he acts like he has all the answers.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Earlier in the day, Mazz was complaining why all the positive articles on Michael Chavis. Why aren't more people talking about his PED suspension? He said the Red Sox were trying to get rid of him at the trade deadline because they know something. On the way home during the baseball show he said Chavis should shut up, he acts like he has all the answers.
He was saying this last week after the walk-off hit. Tony wants his rookies to be confident but not arrogant, to sit under the learning tree and not act like they know anything. With all due respect to the dead, this is a Cafardo-esque take. "Be good but don't acknowledge you're good. You haven't earned that yet." Just creating an issue where there isn't one. I think Mazz thinks the PED thing is going to happen again and he wants to be the one to say, "See, I told you something was up! Just shows how much this kid actually knows!" I guess when the team is starting to shake off the rust and compete, you can't keep harping on the same issues and need to talk about something else to generate calls.

Should The Baseball Reporters get its own thread? Like "Tony Mazz Unyou'reabsolutelyrightMike'd: The Baseball Reporters?"
 

Dick Pole Upside

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Mazz had a “thing” about JD Martinez: Stanton’s much better.

Mazz has a “thing” about Mookie: not enough of a leader, doesn’t want to be here.

Mazz has a “thing” about Benintendi: he acts like he’s “too cool for school” despite several other media members stating AB is a good kid who’s a little on the reserved side.

Mazz has a “thing” about Chavis: he thinks he has all the answers.

I’m not sure he has ever spent any time around any of these guys.

I have a “thing” about Mazz: he lazily relies on sound bites, tweets, and body language to form his opinions. He’s a colossal moron.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Mazz had a “thing” about JD Martinez: Stanton’s much better.

Mazz has a “thing” about Mookie: not enough of a leader, doesn’t want to be here.

Mazz has a “thing” about Benintendi: he acts like he’s “too cool for school” despite several other media members stating AB is a good kid who’s a little on the reserved side.

Mazz has a “thing” about Chavis: he thinks he has all the answers.

I’m not sure he has ever spent any time around any of these guys.

I have a “thing” about Mazz: he lazily relies on sound bites, tweets, and body language to form his opinions. He’s a colossal moron.
And the thing about Mazz' things is that he always couches it with an, "I don't know Mike but ..." like this is some sort of player tick that only he picked up and isn't quite sure what to do with. He's passive in every way, shape and form. At least Felger owns it.
 

Maximus

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Mazz had a “thing” about JD Martinez: Stanton’s much better.

Mazz has a “thing” about Mookie: not enough of a leader, doesn’t want to be here.

Mazz has a “thing” about Benintendi: he acts like he’s “too cool for school” despite several other media members stating AB is a good kid who’s a little on the reserved side.

Mazz has a “thing” about Chavis: he thinks he has all the answers.

I’m not sure he has ever spent any time around any of these guys.

I have a “thing” about Mazz: he lazily relies on sound bites, tweets, and body language to form his opinions. He’s a colossal moron.
This. Mazz is dope with a Napolean complex. Unlistenable.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Mazz doesn't think that you can build around Steph Curry. To their credit Felger and Murray spent the few minutes I was listening yesterday staging a "hot take" intervention to get him to move off that point, but he just kept digging in. I know it is schtick but Mazz is just terrible.
 

Dick Pole Upside

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He actually had the lack of self-awareness to say, "My bar is incredibly high in the NBA" compared to other leagues in terms of who you could build a team around. Felger and Murray laughed in his face.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Love that Mazz openly admits to having "never heard of Ryan Weber before today."

1. You host a popular Boston sports talk radio show.
2, Your job is to follow the Red Sox. Checking the teams daily transactions is something I did in 2nd grade as others here certainly have as well.
3. Even if you missed his callup from Pawtucket.....Weber has had 3 prior outings for Boston including 3-innings and 63-pitches vs Houston last week and a 4-inning/55-pitch outing two weeks ago vs Baltimore.
 

Humphrey

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,,,and not just a generic sports talk show but an additional hour segment that focuses on the Red Sox.
 

joe dokes

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I never heard of Tony Massarotti until that time he got stuck trying to crawl through a roach motel.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Love that Mazz openly admits to having "never heard of Ryan Weber before today."

1. You host a popular Boston sports talk radio show.
2, Your job is to follow the Red Sox. Checking the teams daily transactions is something I did in 2nd grade as others here certainly have as well.
3. Even if you missed his callup from Pawtucket.....Weber has had 3 prior outings for Boston including 3-innings and 63-pitches vs Houston last week and a 4-inning/55-pitch outing two weeks ago vs Baltimore.
It's amazing to me that people are so proud of their ignorance. Like Tony Mazz wears his stupidity on his shirt like a gigantic neon sign every day and then expects people to take him seriously as "an expert".

What's the deal here? If you're an expert on Boston sports, your should probably know--or at least be aware--of who Ryan Weber is. If you're not an expert, and that's okay, then play the "every man" role. You can't do both.
 

bankshot1

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As a tack-on to Mazz's ignorance.

F&M were talking about the Bruins lay-off and whether it would impact them in the SC Finals and whether the scrimmage (last night) was a good idea. A caller called in and informed the duo that in 1946 the Sox had a lay-off waiting for the Cards and Dodgers to settle their tie for the NL pennant and played an All-Star team to beat the rust and Ted Williams was HBP (elbow) and he had a crappy series. Felger asked Mazz whether it was true (it was) and Mazz immediately said IDK-I never heard of that.

I get it that Sox fans might have too much time of their hands etc. but how the fuck does a baseball writer with lots of years in and presumably a handle on team history and and handle on arguably the best hitter in the history of the game, not know that?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I get it that Sox fans might have too much time of their hands etc. but how the fuck does a baseball writer with lots of years in and presumably a handle on team history and and handle on arguably the best hitter in the history of the game, not know that?
I agree 100%. I mean, it's not Red Sox 101, but it's part of the Red Sox 200-level course syllabus. Mazz should have known this off the top of his and probably should have know the name of the pitcher that plunked Williams.

Why have him on the show if he's not the baseball expert? He has limited knowledge of the Pats, B's, Celts and sports outside of Boston. He can't stand soccer, college sports, NASCAR and doesn't have much interest in golf or tennis. And he's not funny. HIs deal is that he covered the Red Sox for ~20 years, so he should be able to speak intelligently or with some degree of expertise on baseball. Shit, he's the host of the Baseball Hour (or whatever it's called) every night for the entire season.

He really shouldn't get tripped up on not knowing who Ryan Weber is or whether Williams got hit in the elbow prior to the 1946 World Series. I get that everyone has a bad day, but Mazz is stealing money from 98.5.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Isn't one of the few knocks on Williams that he did perform so poorly in the World Series, something that actually really upset him in real life? Even I know that without having to look up dates and box scores.
 

jayhoz

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It's amazing to me that people are so proud of their ignorance. Like Tony Mazz wears his stupidity on his shirt like a gigantic neon sign every day and then expects people to take him seriously as "an expert".

What's the deal here? If you're an expert on Boston sports, your should probably know--or at least be aware--of who Ryan Weber is. If you're not an expert, and that's okay, then play the "every man" role. You can't do both.
I didn't hear the exchange regarding Weber, but if it was anything like the many other times he hasn't know a player it wasn't a celebration of his ignorance. It was an opportunity to declare the player a nobody because he hadn't heard of him and to call fans stupid for paying attention to such a loser player. Two things that tough guy Mazz can't resist doing at every opportunity. In other words, to quote Mazz, "it was a total toolbag move".
 

HomeRunBaker

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I agree 100%. I mean, it's not Red Sox 101, but it's part of the Red Sox 200-level course syllabus. Mazz should have known this off the top of his and probably should have know the name of the pitcher that plunked Williams.

Why have him on the show if he's not the baseball expert? He has limited knowledge of the Pats, B's, Celts and sports outside of Boston. He can't stand soccer, college sports, NASCAR and doesn't have much interest in golf or tennis. And he's not funny. HIs deal is that he covered the Red Sox for ~20 years, so he should be able to speak intelligently or with some degree of expertise on baseball. Shit, he's the host of the Baseball Hour (or whatever it's called) every night for the entire season.

He really shouldn't get tripped up on not knowing who Ryan Weber is or whether Williams got hit in the elbow prior to the 1946 World Series. I get that everyone has a bad day, but Mazz is stealing money from 98.5.
I agree with every word of this except the final sentence. Despite all of Mazz’s negative the fact remains that they have done a tremendous job branding their show and crush ratings.....which aside from HR issues is all the network cares about. I look in the mirror and recognize how terribly prepared/knowledgeable he or they are each day......yet when I’m driving during that window I have them on.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I agree with every word of this except the final sentence. Despite all of Mazz’s negative the fact remains that they have done a tremendous job branding their show and crush ratings.....which aside from HR issues is all the network cares about. I look in the mirror and recognize how terribly prepared/knowledgeable he or they are each day......yet when I’m driving during that window I have them on.
I don’t think that Mazz is the reason why the Felger and Mazz show is number one. Like him or not, Felger is that show’s engine and you could stick him with Fred Smerlas and have the number one show in Boston. And that’s a testament to Felger being prepared and having a strong POV.

From what I recall Mazz was the second choice (Merloni was number one) and I think that the cohost is immaterial. People care about what Felger has to say. No one gives a shit about Massarotti because he’s a contrarian and an ignorant one at that. He’s obviously trying to push buttons and people know that.

He sucks.
 

Sinistas

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Speaking of Smerlas, he's the only reason Mazz isn't the worst media guy from Waltham (I know it's Fred's second career, obviously). That's a sad state of affairs.
 

dcmissle

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Oddly, Smerlas birthed Felger and Mazz, along with Ordway and DeOsse.

Time flies, but if you go back far enough you’ll find Felger the blogger on WEEI.com. This was a step down from his 10-year gig as the Herald’s beat writer for the Patriots. Mazz had Felger in stature. Neither were anywhere in radio except as stand-in contrarians with Ordway on ‘EEI, when Glenn, Smerlas and DeOsse beat to a bloody pulp anyone who criticized the Pats during the Dynasty Part I.

People tired of it, Ordway got complacent and lazy, vacationing many months a year, Felger and Mazz bolted, and the rest is history.

Things are as unsatisfactory now as they were then, but in a quite different way.
 

pedro1918

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On a side note, I was amazed when I saw the line up of that pre-World Series All-Star team the Sox played in 1946. Joe DiMaggio, Eddie Lopat, Birdie Tebbets, Hal Newhouser, Hank Greenberg. I just can’t imagine that happening today.

Also, Mazz sucks.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Oddly, Smerlas birthed Felger and Mazz, along with Ordway and DeOsse.

Time flies, but if you go back far enough you’ll find Felger the blogger on WEEI.com. This was a step down from his 10-year gig as the Herald’s beat writer for the Patriots. Mazz had Felger in stature. Neither were anywhere in radio except as stand-in contrarians with Ordway on ‘EEI, when Glenn, Smerlas and DeOsse beat to a bloody pulp anyone who criticized the Pats during the Dynasty Part I.

People tired of it, Ordway got complacent and lazy, vacationing many months a year, Felger and Mazz bolted, and the rest is history.

Things are as unsatisfactory now as they were then, but in a quite different way.
One thing missing in your history is that Felger took the job at WEEI.com after he had a show at 890 ESPN for a few years before the station shut down. Pretty sure he worked at WEEI more or less as a stop gap until another station took a shot at doing sports talk, which I think was all of a year or so. Maybe he saw it as a way to be the heir apparent to Ordway, but can't really blame him for not wanting to hang around just in case.
 

dcmissle

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One thing missing in your history is that Felger took the job at WEEI.com after he had a show at 890 ESPN for a few years before the station shut down. Pretty sure he worked at WEEI more or less as a stop gap until another station took a shot at doing sports talk, which I think was all of a year or so. Maybe he saw it as a way to be the heir apparent to Ordway, but can't really blame him for not wanting to hang around just in case.
Felger and Mazz were voices of reason at EEI, quite good. And don’t blame them a bit for eventually shedding their roles as Fox News’ house liberals — or MSNBC’s house conservative: tokens to demonstrate that not everyone on The Big Show was Neanderthal.

It’s too bad that Mazz’ studied ignorance now mirrors Stephen A. Smith’s and Felger’s absurd hot takes resemble Max Kellerman’s. They are First Take writ small.
 
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John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I was on my way to urgent care a few minutes ago (I cut my finger ) so I had the radio on to listen to the Baseball Reporters. Mazz was on and he was bitching about DD’s lack of success drafting, which I don’t think is unreasonable.

But then he veered off into crazy town, asking, “What was the last superstar the Red Sox drafted?” He went through a litany of 70s and 80s Sox: Rice, Lynn, Clemens, Ojeda, Mo, Tudor, Hurst, John Valentin before saying, “the last superstar was Nomar. That’s it!” He asked the coolest guy in any room, Jim Murray and he agreed, Nomar was the last superstar the Red Sox drafted.

That’s it.

Not Lester or Ellsbury or Pedroia or Papelbon or Rizzo or Buchholz or Bogaerts or JBJ or Benintendi or Devers or Mookie fucking Betts. That’s it. Nomar.
Every pick has been a miss since 1994.

Never mind that the outfield is home grown, three quarters of the infield is home grown, including the catcher. And if you’re going to consider Valentin and Bob Ojeda as superstars, I’ll take Buchholz and Devers.

I get brain cramps happen. Mazz is human but I mean Betts just won the MVP last year for a team that was incredible. That’s pretty dumb. And Murray is even dumber for not bringing something to the table and correcting his boss.

Jesus, this station sucks.
 

Myt1

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I was on my way to urgent care a few minutes ago (I cut my finger ) so I had the radio on to listen to the Baseball Reporters. Mazz was on and he was bitching about DD’s lack of success drafting, which I don’t think is unreasonable.

But then he veered off into crazy town, asking, “What was the last superstar the Red Sox drafted?” He went through a litany of 70s and 80s Sox: Rice, Lynn, Clemens, Ojeda, Mo, Tudor, Hurst, John Valentin before saying, “the last superstar was Nomar. That’s it!” He asked the coolest guy in any room, Jim Murray and he agreed, Nomar was the last superstar the Red Sox drafted.

That’s it.

Not Lester or Ellsbury or Pedroia or Papelbon or Rizzo or Buchholz or Bogaerts or JBJ or Benintendi or Devers or Mookie fucking Betts. That’s it. Nomar.
Every pick has been a miss since 1994.

Never mind that the outfield is home grown, three quarters of the infield is home grown, including the catcher. And if you’re going to consider Valentin and Bob Ojeda as superstars, I’ll take Buchholz and Devers.

I get brain cramps happen. Mazz is human but I mean Betts just won the MVP last year for a team that was incredible. That’s pretty dumb. And Murray is even dumber for not bringing something to the table and correcting his boss.

Jesus, this station sucks.
He’s a starfucker at heart.

He honestly is. Every conversation about every sport devolves into him putting a sample in a cup about top end talent. Every draft discussion, every playoff series prediction, everything.

He’s lazy and incurious. Names he can remember = good. He can’t be bothered to understand any of the thing he talks about on a deeper level than “How many guys have I heard of in passing?”
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I was on my way to urgent care a few minutes ago (I cut my finger ) so I had the radio on to listen to the Baseball Reporters. Mazz was on and he was bitching about DD’s lack of success drafting, which I don’t think is unreasonable.

But then he veered off into crazy town, asking, “What was the last superstar the Red Sox drafted?” He went through a litany of 70s and 80s Sox: Rice, Lynn, Clemens, Ojeda, Mo, Tudor, Hurst, John Valentin before saying, “the last superstar was Nomar. That’s it!” He asked the coolest guy in any room, Jim Murray and he agreed, Nomar was the last superstar the Red Sox drafted.

That’s it.

Not Lester or Ellsbury or Pedroia or Papelbon or Rizzo or Buchholz or Bogaerts or JBJ or Benintendi or Devers or Mookie fucking Betts. That’s it. Nomar.
Every pick has been a miss since 1994.

Never mind that the outfield is home grown, three quarters of the infield is home grown, including the catcher. And if you’re going to consider Valentin and Bob Ojeda as superstars, I’ll take Buchholz and Devers.

I get brain cramps happen. Mazz is human but I mean Betts just won the MVP last year for a team that was incredible. That’s pretty dumb. And Murray is even dumber for not bringing something to the table and correcting his boss.

Jesus, this station sucks.
I guess it depends on your definition of superstar. Using his example of Nomar, who was a superstar from the moment he debuted right up through his trade to the Cubs and even a little bit longer, he may have been the last superstar drafted ONLY because the others either flamed out at a faster pace or haven't yet reached whatever his threshold for superstardom (which is obviously arbitrary) is. Nomar is a 6-time All-Star (5 with Boston), won Silver Slugger and ROY in his first season, and was the first to achieve back-to-back AL Batting Titles as a RHH since Joe DiMaggio. He's a lifetime .313 hitter and once flirted with hitting .400 on the season (.372 in 2000). While injuries curtailed his later years, he was a superstar for the first 5 or so seasons before getting hit on the wrist and still really good for awhile after that. If that's the criteria for a superstar position player, I'm not sure how many of the players you mentioned would qualify.

Going through the list you gave:

Jacoby Ellsbury had a strong first few seasons and one MVP caliber year (I still say he should have won, but whatever) but crashed and burned as soon as he got to New York and has never recovered. Other than stealing everyone in America a free taco in 2007, I have trouble remembering any superstar moments for him or ever thinking he was the guy I wanted to come up to the plate in any given scenario. He was only a one-time All-Star, won a Silver Slugger and Gold Glove (but only one), and MVP runner-up in his Comeback Player of the Year season in 2011. He was a three-time stolen base leader and the first Red Sox player to join the 30-30 club. He played 7 seasons in Boston and really only the 2011 season stands out as what he was capable of but never quite did before or after.

Dustin Pedroia was a superstar but his best years were his first couple (AL ROY, AL MVP) and it's been downhill since then. He is a four-time All-Star, won four Gold Gloves, and a Silver Slugger, but has been largely hobbled by injuries over the last few seasons (not entirely his fault). He's the closest to reaching Nomar's level and an arguable superstar.

Anthony Rizzo never played any meaningful games for Boston before being dealt to San Diego. He's certainly a top tier player but has done everything outside of Boston. If Mazz means a Red Sox Superstar, he's out of the discussion be default. Of course, if that's what he meant, the arguments for the other players above get a little stronger.

Bogaerts is on his way to being a superstar but isn't there yet. JBJ is not and never will be because of his offensive woes, though he's a defensive superstar by any metric. Benintendi isn't there and may not get there; he strikes me as someone who's always going to be a great complimentary player but will never be The Guy the way Nomar was. Devers needs more time but may get there. Betts is the closest but needs to put up probably a couple more really good seasons before he's officially crowned.

As to the pitchers you listed, I never would have called Lester a superstar, Papelbon's peak was only a couple years and then he started to flame out, especially after he left Boston, and Buchholz was never a superstar due to all his injury issues.

So, in a sense, he's right: no one has done what Nomar did during his Red Sox tenure, but some players aren't far off. I would consider Pedroia a superstar but he was also overshadowed by David Ortiz during his prime years.

It's still a specious argument to say they haven't drafted any since Nomar since the grades are incomplete on a lot of the current class, but not totally without merit.

I hate to defend the Lazy Mazz but it's not like he said every player since Nomar that's been drafted has been a dud. Some just never quite got to the levels that they maybe could have reached.

And, again, it all depends on what you consider superstar criteria to be. One amazing season does not a superstar make, at least not to me.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I guess it depends on your definition of superstar.
That's the thing, on one hand he's talking about guys like Nomar and Clemens and Jim Rice. On the other hand he's talking about John Valentin, Bruce HurJohn Tudor and Bob Ojeda.

If he's saying the Red Sox aren't pumping out HoFers like they used to, then yeah, I guess he's right. But the Sox have only developed three HoFers (Clemens, Boggs and Rice -- four if you count Bagwell) that were drafted in the last 45ish years. How does that compare to other teams? I'd say it's probably about average, but I'm not sure. However, if this is his benchmark, it's pretty high and his poster boy, Nomar wouldn't make the cut.

But if he's saying "super stars" but meaning "stars", which I think that's what he meant when he listed out all of the other players, then those players that I've listed who were drafted since Nomar definitely fit. Is Nomar the best of that lot? Maybe. I think that you sort of short change Lester, Pedroia and Betts, and over value Nomar based on potential, but that's a minor quibble. If you want to have Nomar is #1, than Pedroia and Betts can be #1a and 1b, Lester would be a solid #2.

And I wouldn't have added Rizzo but Mazz really seemed to focus on John Tudor for some reason, who was fine with Boston but really blossomed in St. Louis.