Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

JayMags71

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Well he set it up by saying Brady won't be the beneficiary of as many three-and-outs, and it's unlikely they'll be as lucky keeping both JE and Gronk healthy for the whole season as they were in 2014. However, he follows it up by saying "Brady won't be able to deflate the balls".

He even had the audacity to set it up by claiming with a straight face "Now, I know people are going to think I'm trolling here, but I'm not.

 

Phenom

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There is no opposition on that show whatsoever anymore. Mazz has been a high-pitched parrot for years and Big Jim Murray is human pavement. Felger just steamrolls him.
 
At the end, Beetle didn't fight as often as he once did, but he was still a dissenting voice when he needed to be –his shouting match with Mazz over DeflateGate at the Super Bowl comes to mind.
 
Nobody in their right mind would theorize that Brady won't be as good next season because he can't deflate footballs anymore. But unfortunately, the last bit of logic that was left on Felger & Mazz now sits next to Zolak from 10-2. 
 

The Napkin

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timely...
 
https://twitter.com/GlobeChadFinn/status/618938220538150912
 
https://twitter.com/GlobeChadFinn/status/618938532263034880
 

Buffalo Head

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Phenom said:
There is no opposition on that show whatsoever anymore. Mazz has been a high-pitched parrot for years and Big Jim Murray is human pavement. Felger just steamrolls him.
 
At the end, Beetle didn't fight as often as he once did, but he was still a dissenting voice when he needed to be –his shouting match with Mazz over DeflateGate at the Super Bowl comes to mind.
 
Nobody in their right mind would theorize that Brady won't be as good next season because he can't deflate footballs anymore. But unfortunately, the last bit of logic that was left on Felger & Mazz now sits next to Zolak from 10-2. 
So, you weren't listening yesterday. Mazz and Murray got on him pretty good about his obvious trolling and ridiculed the notion of Brady slipping because he won'thave the mental comfort zone that came from the deflated balls. 
 

Quiddity

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Buffalo Head said:
So, you weren't listening yesterday. Mazz and Murray got on him pretty good about his obvious trolling and ridiculed the notion of Brady slipping because he won'thave the mental comfort zone that came from the deflated balls. 
 
Agreed. I was quite surprised and happy to see Mazz challenge Felger for once. You know Felger's trolling has hit a new extreme when even YARM doesn't agree with him. The callers also hit him pretty bad on it, including one in particular who flat out said Felger didn't really believe what he was saying and was trolling for ratings.
 

RedSox040713

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Felger says he's been on Ortiz's side plenty of times in controversies. I can't think of any of these instances and I've always had the impression he hated Ortiz to an extent
 

Phenom

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Buffalo Head said:
So, you weren't listening yesterday. Mazz and Murray got on him pretty good about his obvious trolling and ridiculed the notion of Brady slipping because he won'thave the mental comfort zone that came from the deflated balls. 
 
Guilty as charged. You know what they about those who ASSume ...
 
I still stand by my point that Big Jim is a big downgrade in the No. 3 chair. 
 

Nite Vizhun UV

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RedSox040713 said:
Felger says he's been on Ortiz's side plenty of times in controversies. I can't think of any of these instances and I've always had the impression he hated Ortiz to an extent
 
Ortiz has helped bring a lot of joy to sports fans in the area. Of course Felger hates him.
 

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RedSox040713 said:
Felger says he's been on Ortiz's side plenty of times in controversies. I can't think of any of these instances and I've always had the impression he hated Ortiz to an extent
 
Felger is being a douche about Ortiz (I would assume because there's nothing going on and he's pretty good at drumming up fake controversy) but from some of the calls I heard on the radio yesterday, he's not alone. One lady called in and complained about Ortiz calling him a "loser", "selfish" and "he was on that list (I'm assuming the PED one from 03) too". 
 
So don't underestimate how quickly the Boston Red Sox fandom can turn on a guy who won THREE World Series in 11 years, bat .700 in one of them (seven fucking hundred!) and most of all dragged them to the greatest comeback in all of sports.
 
But yeah, other than that, fuck you Ortiz play first base. 
 

The Napkin

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I liked how they were bashing Ortiz for maybe possibly refusing to play first base in the future. Isn't one of their golden rule tenet show principal things to not complain about something that hasn't happened yet?
 

Laser Show

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The Napkin said:
I liked how they were bashing Ortiz for maybe possibly refusing to play first base in the future. Isn't one of their golden rule tenet show principal things to not complain about something that hasn't happened yet?
A little off topic since I don't listen to Felder & Mazz, but I had to turn off Bertrand & Zo yesterday. Spent the first half hour whining about Ortiz "not just saying he'd do what's best for the team." It's a miracle we have any athletes that love this town.
 

JayMags71

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The Napkin said:
I liked how they were bashing Ortiz for maybe possibly refusing to play first base in the future. Isn't one of their golden rule tenet show principal things to not complain about something that hasn't happened yet?
That rule got the same treatment as the "no celebrity callers" rule. Circular file.
 

allstonite

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JayMags71 said:
That rule got the same treatment as the "no celebrity callers" rule. Circular file.
 
I was driving around last week with a friend who had the show on. It was my first time in a while listening. That moron Mike from Attleboro called in but didn't call himself MIke from Attleboro. Is this some kind of inside joke for them about getting around not having celebrity callers? 
 

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Laser Show said:
A little off topic since I don't listen to Felder & Mazz, but I had to turn off Bertrand & Zo yesterday. Spent the first half hour whining about Ortiz "not just saying he'd do what's best for the team." It's a miracle we have any athletes that love this town.
 
It's a fun little game that the media plays. Belichick gets ripped to shreds because he doesn't say anything honestly and pretty much says the same thing over and over again, preferring to keep things in house. "WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO FEAR? WHY IS HE DOING THIS? HE'S SUPER PARANOID!"
 
Ortiz is honest and says what he feels about playing first and it's, "ORTIZ IS TOO HONEST AND A DIVA! WHY CAN'T HE JUST SAY HE'LL DO IT FOR THE BETTER OF THE TEAM AND THEN HANDLE IT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?"*
 
* BTW, I actually heard Felger say that. And I think it was Mazz who called him on it. "So, you want them to lie to us, Mike?" and Felger was like, "Sure. They lie to us anyway."
 
So if you lie to the press, you're paranoid. But if you're honest with the press, you're a diva. Got it. 
 

JayMags71

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Buffalo Head said:
So, you weren't listening yesterday. Mazz and Murray got on him pretty good about his obvious trolling and ridiculed the notion of Brady slipping because he won'thave the mental comfort zone that came from the deflated balls.
I'll concede that I was wrong in my assumption that Mazz and Murray wouldn't challenge him. Though, my fear that they wouldn't challenge him wasn't my sole reason for switching. The bigger reason is, I stopped paying attention to deflategate in February - March at the latest. Any mention of it is enough to make me switch channels. Plus, you can tack on the fairly obvious troll job.

allstonite said:
I was driving around last week with a friend who had the show on. It was my first time in a while listening. That moron Mike from Attleboro called in but didn't call himself MIke from Attleboro. Is this some kind of inside joke for them about getting around not having celebrity callers?
Don't know, don't care. When they started taking calls from "Danny from Quincy" (under another name) that was enough for me.
 

RedSox040713

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"Kraft is an incompetent" Felger. Wonder how long before he yells at someone for saying that the Deflategate investigation and suspension are too
 

ForKeeps

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John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
 
It's a fun little game that the media plays. Belichick gets ripped to shreds because he doesn't say anything honestly and pretty much says the same thing over and over again, preferring to keep things in house. "WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO FEAR? WHY IS HE DOING THIS? HE'S SUPER PARANOID!"
 
Ortiz is honest and says what he feels about playing first and it's, "ORTIZ IS TOO HONEST AND A DIVA! WHY CAN'T HE JUST SAY HE'LL DO IT FOR THE BETTER OF THE TEAM AND THEN HANDLE IT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?"*
 
* BTW, I actually heard Felger say that. And I think it was Mazz who called him on it. "So, you want them to lie to us, Mike?" and Felger was like, "Sure. They lie to us anyway."
 
So if you lie to the press, you're paranoid. But if you're honest with the press, you're a diva. Got it. 
 
"So Ortiz says he'll do what's best for the team (clears throat)....do we really buy this, Mazz? We all know he's griping behind the scenes because he's not a team player.."
 

shawnrbu

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If you don't like listening to them say not nice things about Ortiz, then tune out tomorrow when Mike and Tony give their hot takes on Ortiz sitting out the game before the All Star Break when he was originally scheduled to play 1B. 
 

Byrdbrain

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While I'm sure that will get play it will be dwarfed by the "should have sold high on Buchholz" talk.
 

Humphrey

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Byrdbrain said:
While I'm sure that will get play it will be dwarfed by the "should have sold high on Buchholz" talk.
Or perhaps the "Buchholz's just faking it to miss the trading deadline" corollary.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Good thing no one here falls into this trap, it'd be pretty embarrassing.

Whenever something notable or controversial happens in Boston sports, I receive at least a few messages, often more, from fans sharing their opinion and then sharing what they presume Michael Felger will say about it the next day. When a host is in listeners heads to the point theyre predicting his opinions, thats when you know hes driving the conversation in the city.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/02/media/RwOrC504I1iuSmCv1ulvjL/story.html#

Maybe Felger is doing something right?
 

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steveluck7

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Mazz's reasoning as to why Brady should take the suspension:

- Brady doesn't actually want to go to court because he'd be subject to full discovery
- Brady isn't a union guy because he's taken less $$ in contract negotiations so he doesn't want to be used by the union in this situation
- txt messages!!!
 

allstonite

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steveluck7 said:
Mazz's reasoning as to why Brady should take the suspension:

- Brady doesn't actually want to go to court because he'd be subject to full discovery
- Brady isn't a union guy because he's taken less $$ in contract negotiations so he doesn't want to be used by the union in this situation
- txt messages!!!
 
Yup not a union guy. This must have been Kyle Brady fighting the lockout.
 
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/brady-v-nfl-a-primer/
 

Buffalo Head

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I don't know if it's true, but even before deflategate, they've talked about the fact that Brady is listed on that case because he's the first player listed alphabetically, therefore his name goes on the case, and that he was actually unhappy about, because he didn't want want to be "the face" of the suit.
 
I also think Bedard is the one who's told them that.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Buffalo Head said:
I don't know if it's true, but even before deflategate, they've talked about the fact that Brady is listed on that case because he's the first player listed alphabetically, therefore his name goes on the case, and that he was actually unhappy about, because he didn't want want to be "the face" of the suit.
Fuck off, Mazz is an asshole that doesn't like the Patriots or Brady and doesn't know what he's talking about.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Buffalo Head said:
I don't know if it's true, but even before deflategate, they've talked about the fact that Brady is listed on that case because he's the first player listed alphabetically, therefore his name goes on the case, and that he was actually unhappy about, because he didn't want want to be "the face" of the suit.
 
Not true.  Edit:  at least the part about him being first alphabetically amongst the players named as plaintiffs in the lawsuit.  And I've never seen any report that he wasn't willingly a named plaintiff.
 
Tom BRADY; Drew Brees; Vincent Jackson; Ben Leber; Logan Mankins; Peyton Manning; Von Miller; Brian Robison; Osi Umenyiora; Mike Vrabel; Carl Eller; Priest Holmes; Obafemi Ayanbadejo; Ryan Collins; Antawan Walker, individually, and on behalf of all others similarly situated, Appellees
 
 

PC Drunken Friar

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steveluck7 said:
Mazz's reasoning as to why Brady should take the suspension:

- Brady doesn't actually want to go to court because he'd be subject to full discovery
- Brady isn't a union guy because he's taken less $$ in contract negotiations so he doesn't want to be used by the union in this situation
- txt messages!!!
Add in that he might be afraid of what the Pats see in Jimmy G.
 

HomeBrew1901

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steveluck7 said:
Mazz's reasoning as to why Brady should take the suspension:

- Brady doesn't actually want to go to court because he'd be subject to full discovery
- Brady isn't a union guy because he's taken less $$ in contract negotiations so he doesn't want to be used by the union in this situation
- txt messages!!!
- Quite possible, you go through a lawsuit and you never know what is going to be found and unless Brady knows he's 100% innocent why put yourself through that over a game or two.  It's a good threat though to get the commish to maybe drop it to a fine or 1 game.
 
- I can see him not wanting to be used by the Union, he is/was the face of the NFL, if he and the NFLPA lose this case it will tarnish his legacy, right now it's just a blip, take the suspension and move on.
 
- You can believe what you want, but the text messages do not look good for Brady, not necessarily him ordering the guys to do it, but being aware of what they were doing.
 

allstonite

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Buffalo Head said:
I don't know if it's true, but even before deflategate, they've talked about the fact that Brady is listed on that case because he's the first player listed alphabetically, therefore his name goes on the case, and that he was actually unhappy about, because he didn't want want to be "the face" of the suit.
 
I also think Bedard is the one who's told them that.
 
Even if that was true, the fact that Brady was one of the 10 people willing to put his name on the suit and also was very visible during the lockout when he really had no reason personally to be goes against the fact that he's not a union guy
 

bankshot1

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Mazz is getting his ass kicked by Marshall, And Marshal is simply using reason.
 
Mazz says he knows in his guts Brady "knew" and thinks thats what RG is going on.
 
He should be embarrassed.
 

Buffalo Head

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Ralphwiggum said:
 
Not true.  Edit:  at least the part about him being first alphabetically amongst the players named as plaintiffs in the lawsuit.  And I've never seen any report that he wasn't willingly a named plaintiff.
 
Yeah, maybe it was his name being listed first, the specifics I can't recall, but I know I've heard them cite this more than once and maybe I'm losing my glue (entirely possible) but I feel like they've talked about it with Bedard there and he's either been the one who first introduced the notion, or he didn't dispute it.
 

Ralphwiggum

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HomeBrew1901 said:
- Quite possible, you go through a lawsuit and you never know what is going to be found and unless Brady knows he's 100% innocent why put yourself through that over a game or two.  It's a good threat though to get the commish to maybe drop it to a fine or 1 game.
 
- I can see him not wanting to be used by the Union, he is/was the face of the NFL, if he and the NFLPA lose this case it will tarnish his legacy, right now it's just a blip, take the suspension and move on.
 
- You can believe what you want, but the text messages do not look good for Brady, not necessarily him ordering the guys to do it, but being aware of what they were doing.
 
Your first point indicates that you have no clue what is actually involved in Tom Brady appealing the ruling.  There wouldn't be any new evidence introduced that hasn't already been presented by either the NFL or Brady.
 
Your second point is nonsensical.  How would his reputation be tarnished more by fighting?  I think most people would say that if he's truly innocent he should be willing to fight it all the way and not accept punishment for something he didn't do.  Plus he's screwed in the court of public opinion anyway (amongst non Pats fans) so making a decision based on what he thinks would move the needle with that group would be monumentally stupid.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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HomeBrew1901 said:
Fake edit: Not worth it.  Take your deflategate theories and Brady Hand jobs to the NFL Forum.
Shouldn't you be busy jerking it to the WEEI cat fight going on. You live for that stuff

The willful ignorance of the collective Boston sports media is so frustrating. It takes about 10 minutes to get a basic understanding of the process and how this will work in court. But people are calling in about juries, discovery, McNally testifying, the judge reducing the suspension to x games, etc... It's infuriating. I don't expect everyone to be an expert, but this stuff is easy to find out.

The worst part is that there are a lot of really interesting things to talk about in this saga. But they are just rehash the same arguments with facts and assumptions that are just flat wrong.

They could have great discussions and debates about this while also grounding it in reality. They don't have to make this as stupid as they are.
 

shawnrbu

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Ralphwiggum said:
 
Not true.  Edit:  at least the part about him being first alphabetically amongst the players named as plaintiffs in the lawsuit.  And I've never seen any report that he wasn't willingly a named plaintiff.
 
 
Brady's name was the first listed active NFL player.  The players listed after Vrabel were not active NFL players. 
 

southshoresoxfan

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Still waiting for anyone to disprove that all Brady did was ask them to keep the balls as low as the refs would allow. Its not only the most plausible theory, there is no evidence to anything else.
 

allstonite

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Buffalo Head said:
Thank you.
I have heard that too. It still doesn't matter why his name is first. The point is his name is one of the names on the union's suit against the NFL. And if I remember correctly he was one of the prominent faces at many of the meetings along with Manning, Brees, and Jeff Saturday. To say he's not a "union guy" like Mazz did is wrong.

It just makes it funnier that his name is first so it gets shortened to "Brady vs NFL"
 

The Napkin

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Brady's a Union Guy! See! His name was listed first on this other thing!
 
Well, actually his name was listed first because alphabetically it...
 
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY HIS NAME IS FIRST!
 

dcmissle

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I long ago had my say about the merits of this show.  It is what it is, and you either like it or you don't. 
 
But nobody -- not even these two-- is entitled to his own facts.  Opinions yes; facts no.  So rather than retreat to the NFL forum; it probably makes sense to borrow from it in advance of the approaching tsunami.  Points made there, convincingly:
 
1.  TB's supposed downside risk in federal court is uninformed and exaggerated, as noted by T and A above.  This proceeding will not resemble a trial; it will far more closely resemble the review of an administrative decision.  This means that whatever issues from Goodell will be evaluated under applicable legal principles based on the record the NFL has compiled, which includes TB's arguments on the appeal before Goodell. 
 
This the NFL and team Brady will almost certainly agree on; indeed, it may be the only point they agree on.  This means that TB almost will certainly not be required to turn over his cell records or be deposed.  The "story" really can't get much worse for him.
 
Realistically, the worst thing that could happen is that a federal judge will announce "the NFL got it right" and affirm the suspension.  Indisputably, a federal judge cannot increase whatever penalty will be forthcoming from RG on the appeal.
 
Could this leave the tracks in an unimaginable way?  I suppose.  But litigants do not assume they will draw a raging lunatic as a judge, much less a federal judge.  Nor should they.
 
2.  The "distraction" argument has no merit.  I can tell you based on experience that TB's federal court complaint is drafted, as are his motion papers.  His legal strategy has been formulated, and all of this stuff simply await tweaking based upon the ruling, and its wording, that ultimately will issue from the NFL.  To the extent TB's input was required on these things, it has been provided.  Because of the nature of the proceeding -- see 1 above -- there will be no "trial" he has to sit through, no deposition or courtroom testimony he has to provide.  I would recommend that he show up on day 1 to look the judge in the eye to persuade him or her that he cares about this case.  But that's about it.  Ninety per cent of what is demanded of TB in this case has probably been provided; much of it occurred to prepare for and participate in the Goodell hearing.
 
Besides, much as CEOs and Board Chairs are expected to and do multi-task, so too Hall of Fame QBs; it goes with the territory.
 
3.  The "schedule" argument is hypothetical and overblown.  "Oh, but if Tom fights, he may have to sit in November, December or -- "gasp" -- playoff games."  I'll steer you to BBTL for the evisceration of this one, but the important facts are these (I) the case could effectively be over in August if TB is denied injunctive relief; if that happens, he will simply serve whatever is handed down, beginning game 1; (ii) if TB is granted injunctive relief, that bodes pretty well for his ultimate success on the merits; (iii) TB has some degree of control over the schedule and complete control over folding his hand if he determines that is the right thing to do.  And then there is the probably mistaken premise that regular season games early in the season count less than those at the end.