Feb 7 Lakers @ Celtics

lars10

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Jul 31, 2007
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I know it's not based off of this one game, but you'll ride for 'give more minutes to players that play well!' when Hayward is low impact but won't say anything when Jaylen is out of control. Completely transparent line of reasoning. On top of it, you're flipping out over rotations when it's like I said - what are you going to do, not play Kyrie Irving? Focus on what actually happened here - people who normally play well, didn't. It's not Brad's fault that Kyrie shot 6 for 21.
On a night when Kyrie had one of his worst games he played the entire 3rd quarter.. yes you're allowed to sit him.. and he normally doesn't get a full quarter when he's playing well..at least this season. The team was playing better without him and he was shooting something like 3-15? You are allowed to sit him some games.
 

Ed Hillel

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Dec 12, 2007
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On a night when Kyrie had one of his worst games he played the entire 3rd quarter.. yes you're allowed to sit him.. and he normally doesn't get a full quarter when he's playing well..at least this season. The team was playing better without him and he was shooting something like 3-15? You are allowed to sit him some games.
3-18 to start.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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I know it's not based off of this one game, but you'll ride for 'give more minutes to players that play well!' when Hayward is low impact but won't say anything when Jaylen is out of control. Completely transparent line of reasoning. On top of it, you're flipping out over rotations when it's like I said - what are you going to do, not play Kyrie Irving? Focus on what actually happened here - people who normally play well, didn't. It's not Brad's fault that Kyrie shot 6 for 21.
\Here's the thing with Jaylen. He could literally go 0-15 on offense, and still give the C's more than Gordon because of what he can do on defense. He went 6/19 the other night and struggled on offense, but there was also a stretch in the 2nd quarter where Jaylen literally was the reason for about 5 straight turnovers by the Cleveland offense. Even when he's having a very, very rare bad night offensively, he's still playing great defense. Gordon doesn't play great defense, except when he occasionally gets into a passing lane because he's smart enough to make a good read. He's just not back yet. And he's hurting this team on most nights.

That said, Gordon wasn't the reason they lost tonight. But his minutes vs. Jaylen's or Smart's is a symptom of the problem that rears it's head almost every time they lose. Brad doesn't make changes to his patterns. He goes with them, good or bad, hell or high water, and that's a problem. At some point, he needs to prioritize victories over playing time for everyone.

Kuzma played 34 minutes
Lebron played 38 minutes
Ingram played 40 minutes
Mcgee played 30 minutes
Rondo played 35 minutes

The Lakers bench played a total of 73 minutes. Chandler had 15, KCP had 23, Stephenson had 17 and Hart played 8 minutes.

Kyrie played 36 minutes
Tatum played 36 minutes
Morris played 24 minutes
Smart played 24 minutes
Horford played 25 minutes
Gordon played 26 minutes
Theis played 23 minutes
Brown played 25 minutes
Rozier played 19 minutes

The C's have 9 guys playing 19 or more minutes tonight. The Lakers had 6. It's time to shorten the rotations, or I guess we just accept the fact that we're, at best, the 4 seed come playoff time after the improvements made by Philly at the trade deadline.
 

tbb345

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Apr 23, 2010
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I know it's not based off of this one game, but you'll ride for 'give more minutes to players that play well!' when Hayward is low impact but won't say anything when Jaylen is out of control. Completely transparent line of reasoning. On top of it, you're flipping out over rotations when it's like I said - what are you going to do, not play Kyrie Irving? Focus on what actually happened here - people who normally play well, didn't. It's not Brad's fault that Kyrie shot 6 for 21.
This wasn’t addressed to me but I will say that part of the reason I don’t criticize Jaylen as much when he’s out of control (which I don’t think is that much) is because at least he’s being aggressive and trying to get to the rim and generally do things.

With Hayward, everything seems so tentative and playing away from contact. I will admit that this has been getting better recently but in most games you can tell pretty easily and pretty early on if Gordon’s feeling confident and ready to attack. Unfortunately, there are too few of those games,

My specific complaint about the crunch time thing is because Hayward’s been best this season when he has the ball and can create like on the 2nd unit when he’s playing with Rozier. He still has a really high basketball IQ and is still a very good passer.
But in crunch time he’s not a primary option and the lack of aggressiveness really seems to stand out
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Aug 23, 2008
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Just looking ahead I’m 100% going to have to find something better to do for the game @SAC the night after Golden State.
 

teddykgb

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Jul 16, 2005
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They didn't lose because of Hayward vs Jalen, that's just a hammer/nail problem because it's a topic you're centered on. Any version of their top 9-10 needs to be able to stop the Lakers from having a 33 point 2nd quarter and a 42 point 3rd quarter. They played like an extremely arrogant team tonight and then like a classic bully had no response when they got punched in the mouth.

Without a doubt they win this game most nights because most teams don't make that many shots. But i'm sick and tired of watching their effort, execution, and overall identity shift on a nightly basis while they hope eventually their talent will win out.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Aug 23, 2008
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They didn't lose because of Hayward vs Jalen, that's just a hammer/nail problem because it's a topic you're centered on. Any version of their top 9-10 needs to be able to stop the Lakers from having a 33 point 2nd quarter and a 42 point 3rd quarter. They played like an extremely arrogant team tonight and then like a classic bully had no response when they got punched in the mouth.

Without a doubt they win this game most nights because most teams don't make that many shots. But i'm sick and tired of watching their effort, execution, and overall identity shift on a nightly basis while they hope eventually their talent will win out.
Yeah, not the best look that they can’t be bothered when only two guys on the whole team are even averaging 30 mpg. Where are the fresh legs? On both ends of the floor. Lazy on D and they still fall into the iso bullshit on O even though they can get open looks so freaking easy when they move the ball like the 2nd unit was doing.

Game could have used some Semi.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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They didn't lose because of Hayward vs Jalen, that's just a hammer/nail problem because it's a topic you're centered on. Any version of their top 9-10 needs to be able to stop the Lakers from having a 33 point 2nd quarter and a 42 point 3rd quarter. They played like an extremely arrogant team tonight and then like a classic bully had no response when they got punched in the mouth.

Without a doubt they win this game most nights because most teams don't make that many shots. But i'm sick and tired of watching their effort, execution, and overall identity shift on a nightly basis while they hope eventually their talent will win out.
I said it wasn't Hayward/Jaylen tonight. The problem is Brad is too set on getting 9 guys 20 minutes a night. 9 guys aren't going to play well every night. It's ok for some night, some guys only get 10 minutes. Morris was fucking AWFUL tonight, and he still gets his 24 minutes. Kyrie was AWFUL in the 3rd quarter, and he got all 12 minutes. Gordon was just there, and he still got his 26 minutes.

The issue is when guys are playing well, Brad is still rotating them out of the game. There's no feel for the rhythm of the game. There's no changes when the other teams make runs (this was something we talked about during the playoffs over the years, when the C's would give up massive runs). It's just make sure everyone gets theirs, and hope for the best. I want to see the guys playing well getting 30+ minutes. If Terry is playing bad, bench his ass (he was good tonight). If Kyrie is off, give him a breather. If Theis is totally outplaying Horford, let him stay out there.

Our best 9 guys can't beat other good teams best 6 guys every night. Our best 9 guys can beat bad teams best 6 guys, which they do. But when we play good teams, especially on the road, these minutes need to get tightened up. The C's had a chance to put this one away, and instead, Brad sticks to his rotations while the lead evaporates and then we're in a dogfight in the end.

Edit: I would like to know why Brad doesn't think Gordon ever needs a night off? I mean, the guy is coming back from a catastrophic injury and he just keeps running him out there every night, even when it's apparent to everyone that he's tentative at times. Do the C's think rest would actually hurt his development? I'm legitimately curious about it.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Aug 23, 2008
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I wish this counted for more than one game simply to justify the anger I still feel.

Edit: I have a problem.
 

camneely

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May 9, 2018
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Hayward got off to a pretty good start tonight. To my eyes, he became much more tentative after McGee crashed into him.
 

Devizier

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They didn't lose because of Hayward vs Jalen, that's just a hammer/nail problem because it's a topic you're centered on. Any version of their top 9-10 needs to be able to stop the Lakers from having a 33 point 2nd quarter and a 42 point 3rd quarter. They played like an extremely arrogant team tonight and then like a classic bully had no response when they got punched in the mouth.
There was a whole lot of hero ball, especially when they built a big lead. The ending is what people will remember but there was a lot of shit play earlier in the game, too.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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There was a whole lot of hero ball, especially when they built a big lead. The ending is what people will remember but there was a lot of shit play earlier in the game, too.
This version of the Cs can throw away more possessions in a game than any team I can remember when they revert to heat checks, hero ball, and "Hey look at me now" moves.
 

bigq

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Jul 15, 2005
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There was a whole lot of hero ball, especially when they built a big lead. The ending is what people will remember but there was a lot of shit play earlier in the game, too.
Yep. Pretty much the entire third quarter fits that bill. Lakers were red hot from three point range in the third however the Celtics defense was lackluster for much of that as well. Celtics offense was really bad in the third. If not for Theis’ offensive heroics, they would have had almost no offense at all in the third. The third is where the Celtics lost the game as far as I can tell. Well that plus Rondo’s crazy offensive showing.
 

chilidawg

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Jan 22, 2015
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There was a whole lot of hero ball, especially when they built a big lead. The ending is what people will remember but there was a lot of shit play earlier in the game, too.
Yeah, that last 2 minutes was classic everything that can go wrong did. KCP hits a 3 with a hand in his face, Lebron hits one after getting lucky with a near turnover, Smart misses a couple wide open looks and then we can't grab the loose ball after Horford's clutch block.

What's not excusable were the 18 minutes in the middle of the game where we got out scored by 25. That was some of the worst basketball of the season that I've seen.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Oct 20, 2015
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this is not the first time they've had an abhorrent 3rd quarter defensively.

I understand some fluke things happened to lose by 1 at the end, but it should never have been that close.