Feb 23 at Bulls

tbb345

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From Brian Robb:
“Rozier in his last three games: 5-of-26 FG, 2-of-13 3-pt, 12 points.”
Completely inexcusable that he continually gets 20+ Mins per game
 

lars10

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This team absolutely fucking sucks with alarming regularity.
I see Celtics games on the schedule and I think to myself.. it'll be nice to see the team play tonite...
I've somehow kept thinking that all season even though they've yet to live up to that all year.
Something obviously needs to change, but I'm not sure what. I think it's the combo of a few players needing to go and maybe a different coaching combo (new assistants if Brad stays, or a new head coach)...because it's weird seeing a team you love and think should be really good slam their head into the wall night after night and not change anything.
 

lars10

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If this loss doesn't lead to some sort of coaching strategy/philosophy change then this season is irredeemably fucked. This is almost nightmarish levels of banging heads against a wall and feebly hoping something changes.
I was writing the exact same thoughts when you posted this
 

benhogan

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Giving up 126 points to one of the worst teams in the league is inexcusable. The difference between this years team and last years is that last years would have won this game. Even with the horrific 2nd quarter they would have actually locked down on defense in the 2nd half instead of trying to outscore the other team through points.

Rozier continues to be a massive negative.
We need Baynes back.

Frustrating lack of consistency. Ultimately they should turn it up a notch in the playoffs - as we see in big games - but this isn’t the mental toughness we need to be seeing.
I love me some Baynes, more than probably anyone...

BUT Brad will only play him 15mpg and then not use Theis (who is effective)

Brad's whole game plan this season was to play small, 5 guys on the perimeter and be an offensive juggernaut...it NEVER worked, and he won't go back on it
 

CreedBratton

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14-15 on the road.
Gonna have to win 3 series on the road just to make the finals. Not happening this year boys. Ready for the summer & the AD chase. What a frustrating season. Easily my least favorite since 07. At least with the 2010 guys they had a title & were likeable.
 

LesterFan

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This is now the 6th occasion this season where they lose at least 2 games in a row, and possibly the 4th time they lose 3 in a row if they lose in Toronto. Going through periods of suck way too often. For reference the Bucks haven't lost b2b games all season.
 

DeadlySplitter

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what the hell? 35+ points given up to two separate players on a bottom 5 team?

what the fuck has happened, Brad?
 

serotonin

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Marcus Morris + Terry Rozier: 5-20 (2-10 from 3)
Jayson Tatum: 5-9 (1-1)

Rozier impressively went 1-9 in only 16 minutes to go along with a team-worst -16.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Grizz lost to Cleveland, at least. If we’re headed for a first round exit we’re playing to compete a few years from now anyway.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I love me some Baynes, more than probably anyone...

BUT Brad will only play him 15mpg and then not use Theis (who is effective)

Brad's whole game plan this season was to play small, 5 guys on the perimeter and be an offensive juggernaut...it NEVER worked, and he won't go back on it
In theory it should work but they abandon good offense for long stretches of every game while everyone decides to be a hero. It’s a team without discipline or self-awareness. When things get tough the energy level drops while everyone just waits for good things to happen instead of making them happen.

I don’t think Brad has a very good handle on this team, either on the court or off it. I’m sure they will play better in the playoffs but it will take a lot to wash away the stink of this season.
 

lars10

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In theory it should work but they abandon good offense for long stretches of every game while everyone decides to be a hero. It’s a team without discipline or self-awareness. When things get tough the energy level drops while everyone just waits for good things to happen instead of making them happen.

I don’t think Brad has a very good handle on this team, either on the court or off it. I’m sure they will play better in the playoffs but it will take a lot to wash away the stink of this season.
I'm worried that this team is counting way too much on being able to 'turn on a switch'.
Hopefully at the least the rotations get a ton shorter in the playoffs.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yes I know they go to ISO ball way too often and I've never seen a team throw away as many possessions on stuoid passes or shots but this team gave up 126 points to the Bulls. Other than JB, they didn't do single thing to make LaVine or LM uncomfortable.

Last year, they'd wear teams down with their physical defense. This year - I don't know what's going on,
 

TripleOT

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Giving up 35 second quarter points, including a 10 run to a bunch of backup scrubs to start the quarter, is inexcusable. The Bulls' scrubs flipped the game 13 points, from minus 5 to plus 8, when LaVine and LauriBird came back into the game halfway through the second quarter.

Tatum goes 4-5 in the first seven and a half minutes, and sees only four shots in his last 25 minutes. Unacceptable.

If the Celtics' second unit this season had any generic veteran backup PG instead of Rozier, they'd have a half dozen more wins. His bench splits are garbage, 8.1 ppg on 8 shots, coupled with him consistently not competing defensively on pick/rolls. The typical Celtics loss this season: Starters play solid and efficient to start the game, and cobble together a lead. Rozier comes in and lets the other team get loose by making bad decisions and gunning on offense, combined with allowing the other team's PG to go where ever he wants. Other team gets on a roll, and the Cs can't right the ship after an opponent or two goes off.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yes I know they go to ISO ball way too often and I've never seen a team throw away as many possessions on stuoid passes or shots but this team gave up 126 points to the Bulls. Other than JB, they didn't do single thing to make LaVine or LM uncomfortable.

Last year, they'd wear teams down with their physical defense. This year - I don't know what's going on,
I need to dig into the data and would love your insight as well. To my eyes - and his season stats support this - Morris is a huge weak link on defense. By just about any metric, he is having his worst defensive season since his second year. Opponents seem to be able to exploit him, Irving and other weaker C's defenders routinely with switches. Tatum has struggled defensively as well this year based on every metric. He gets somewhat of a pass given his age and experience level. However it leaves the Celtics with only two good defenders out of their starting five and it gives the teams they face a range of options to exploit.

Also, from a macro perspective, it appears as if the C's aren't rotating/helping like they did last year or even two years ago when it was imperative to do so with Thomas on the floor.

The latter may be fixable but the former may not be. IMHO, if the C's hope to do anything, they are going to need to tighten up their defense above anything else.
 

lars10

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Giving up 35 second quarter points, including a 10 run to a bunch of backup scrubs to start the quarter, is inexcusable. The Bulls' scrubs flipped the game 13 points, from minus 5 to plus 8, when LaVine and LauriBird came back into the game halfway through the second quarter.

Tatum goes 4-5 in the first seven and a half minutes, and sees only four shots in his last 25 minutes. Unacceptable.

If the Celtics' second unit this season had any generic veteran backup PG instead of Rozier, they'd have a half dozen more wins. His bench splits are garbage, 8.1 ppg on 8 shots, coupled with him consistently not competing defensively on pick/rolls. The typical Celtics loss this season: Starters play solid and efficient to start the game, and cobble together a lead. Rozier comes in and lets the other team get loose by making bad decisions and gunning on offense, combined with allowing the other team's PG to go where ever he wants. Other team gets on a roll, and the Cs can't right the ship after an opponent or two goes off.
They usually have got the lead back by the end of the half and create more of a lead early in the third.. but then Brad sits a number of starters until the 6 minute mark or so of the third... making all of the work that was done to make the lead obsolete and also put a bunch of cold players back in to try and restore order...also making them work twice as hard to try and get the lead back. During that stretch where they lose the lead in the third there are almost never any subs and rarely any TOs.
 

benhogan

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I need to dig into the data and would love your insight as well. To my eyes - and his season stats support this - Morris is a huge weak link on defense. By just about any metric, he is having his worst defensive season since his second year. Opponents seem to be able to exploit him, Irving and other weaker C's defenders routinely with switches. Tatum has struggled defensively as well this year based on every metric. He gets somewhat of a pass given his age and experience level. However it leaves the Celtics with only two good defenders out of their starting five and it gives the teams they face a range of options to exploit.

Also, from a macro perspective, it appears as if the C's aren't rotating/helping like they did last year or even two years ago when it was imperative to do so with Thomas on the floor.

The latter may be fixable but the former may not be. IMHO, if the C's hope to do anything, they are going to need to tighten up their defense above anything else.
It keeps on coming back to the same issue on both sides of the floor.

Tatum is constantly being played out of his defensive position, he's not an NBA 4 at this age. He was guarding Markkenan several times last night, complete mismatch.
Kyrie, when teamed up with Rozier last night, had to guard Zach Levine, once again complete mismatch. This is the knock-on effect of playing small.

Not pairing Kyrie/Terry and playing Horford at the 4 (for half his minutes) would help solve a lot of these defensive mismatches. It also would help improve the offense.

It's getting a little late in the season to make the rotational changes, BUT we have to hope Brad will digest the data/video and adjust his strategy.
 
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Strike4

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FYI I turned on the game early thinking it started at 7pm and they had an interview with Terry Rozier. It seemed like somebody (Ainge, Stevens) had a sit-down with him - he said in his own way "I need to start doing somethings and control myself from doing other things". He also said he thinks of himself as a starting point guard but needs to reconcile that with what he needs to do. It was all said in the cryptic Terry Rozier way.

Unfortunately from what I've read here (didn't get to see the game) Rozier wasn't doing any of the things.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I need to dig into the data and would love your insight as well. To my eyes - and his season stats support this - Morris is a huge weak link on defense. By just about any metric, he is having his worst defensive season since his second year. Opponents seem to be able to exploit him, Irving and other weaker C's defenders routinely with switches. Tatum has struggled defensively as well this year based on every metric. He gets somewhat of a pass given his age and experience level. However it leaves the Celtics with only two good defenders out of their starting five and it gives the teams they face a range of options to exploit.

Also, from a macro perspective, it appears as if the C's aren't rotating/helping like they did last year or even two years ago when it was imperative to do so with Thomas on the floor.

The latter may be fixable but the former may not be. IMHO, if the C's hope to do anything, they are going to need to tighten up their defense above anything else.
I haven't looked at the numbers and I'm not sure what they would say but it's amazing that this team is basically the same team that won 16 straight last year but on the defensive side, to my eye, they only play hard on defense against good teams.

As Marcus Smart said (in a CelticsBlog article that was posted in the season thread): "When asked how he and the team can look at past Celtics teams, ones that had to fight for everything, for an answer, Smart was very candid in saying 'Our toughness. Our will to fight. Our will to do everything. It’s just like, we don’t got the will to do it anymore. I don’t know how you teach effort, will, want-to. I don’t think you can'."

It's tough to describe. The Cs at their best play physical defense with multiple efforts and lots of help. I didn't see a lot of help last night and certainly the rotations left a lot of people open. Plus, virtually everyone (except JB for a stretch) was torched by LaVine or Markkanen.

Hopefully KI is correct - that when the playoffs come and teams actually game plan for a series, the Cs will turn up their effort and shut folks down. Hopefully.