F**k you, Deflategate

Thetoddwalker

New Member
May 11, 2011
445
New Orleans, LA
Re: SB OT - how about if you score, you get the ball again unless you're down more than 7? That would seem to negate the first/second to get the ball advantage somewhat (though TD/FG/TD+2 would end the game under those rules)
Like college rules, each team gets the ball at the 50. Each subsequent overtime results in the ball starting ten or 15 yards closer. Can't get closer than the 10 with two point conversions required by the second or third overtime.
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,088
I mean, I saw idiots on Facebook posting memes right after the game that the Patriots had to be cheating again. And as long as people keep going there - and believe me, there will be TONS of them doing just that - this issue simply is not going to die.
I have trouble taking this seriously. The number of idiots in general on Facebook is nearly infinite.

To your point though, there are those who will never come around however I think the narrative has swung decidedly in Brady and the Pats' favor but I live in New England and I'm a huge Pats fan to begin with so what do I know.
 

Grimace-HS

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Jun 8, 2012
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I have trouble taking this seriously. The number of idiots in general on Facebook is nearly infinite.

To your point though, there are those who will never come around however I think the narrative has swung decidedly in Brady and the Pats' favor but I live in New England and I'm a huge Pats fan to begin with so what do I know.
I would agree with this, and JimD's post really is perfect in capturing this sentiment as well. The biggest issue that these "gates" has led do affects those of us outside the New England market (and being in the NYC metro market makes it considerably worse), and that really is that it is difficult to have a football conversation without it constantly being brought up (and with misinformation all over the place). Having really followed sports since the late '70s/early '80s, sports has been a common topic that can be used to connect with people across all regions (e.g. random conversations about baseball on the train, etc....). But with football and the "gates", I cannot count how many times both casual and serious fans have gone directly to "cheaters", which has moved football to something I follow on my own and with friends back in MA instead of socially in the NYC area. It has taken a few years to shift from trying to explain to those that just cannot see this openly to simply letting it all turn to white noise, but this Super Bowl definitely helped with that and establish as much closure as possible until time takes its course with the masses. On all other fronts, JimD summed this up perfectly and it is enjoyable to see much of the media finally move on as well (and I know a few non-NE fans that are starting to see Brady differently because of his strong family ties and emotions).

A minor side story...My father was never really into sports, but would always humor me by watching a random game here and there. He is also a retired chemistry professor and completely got consumed with DG and followed a lot more since then, always frustrated by the misuse of the science. After following more intensely this year and even rewatching the Super Bowl, he called me a few times this week excited about their overcoming the DG adversity, the manufactured "gates", and completely feels that the national narrative should be more about the importance of "team first", "collaboration over individual", "do your job", etc....It is great seeing him so excited and having bought into the Patriot Way, actually initiating these conversations. I suppose it took the NFL abusing his "science turf" to get him so interested (actually, I believe Vincent saying that they "did not include the science" might even be worse), so there is a positive effect from DG as the end result has been a lot of fun to be part of and share with him.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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I have literally no idea why someone would engage in a sports debate outside their home market. Sports fans are generally idiots and the times you find someone to have an intelligent discussion with rank in the single digit percentages. Add in being a Boston fan - everyone hates us and has for awhile - and it's not worth it.

Just fucking let it go or avoid it.
 

edmunddantes

Member
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Jul 28, 2015
4,737
Cali
I have literally no idea why someone would engage in a sports debate outside their home market. Sports fans are generally idiots and the times you find someone to have an intelligent discussion with rank in the single digit percentages. Add in being a Boston fan - everyone hates us and has for awhile - and it's not worth it.

Just fucking let it go or avoid it.
all well and good for people living around large clusters of like minded Patriots fans. Little hard when living outside the market.

And as much fun as this site is, there is still something for live conversation. So not much choice unless I never want to talk sports live.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
My kids came home from pre-school last week and were playing "football" in their room when I overheard one of them say "Ok, you can be the Patriots but you're in trouble because you're Tom Brady."

So I go in and I say "Hey, what was that all about?"

And one of them says: "At school, some kids said that Tom Brady got in trouble for cheating [one of them has a Brady jersey, one a Gronk jersey]. And we're the Patriots so now one of us is in trouble when we play."

So we had a little bit of an (animated, on my part) educational session that made my wife laugh.

But still, that was irritating. Like, my kids were getting all psyched for the Super Bowl, the first one that they actually understand what's going on, and they're wearing their Brady/Gronk shirts, and then...that. Just a bummer. But a good life lesson.

But on Monday they wore their shirts again. And on Wednesday, my parents went in to read a book to the class (pre-scheduled) and they read "Make Way For Ducklings" which my father pointed out was set in Boston, "home of the World Champion New England Patriots." And then on Thursday one of my kids brought their Patriots football for Show and Tell.

So, last laughs and all that.
I'm divorced. When we were together we raised the kids to like my teams (Boston) and hers (Dallas). When deflategate happened she told the kids not to root for cheaters. Hearing that they can't root for the Pats at her house pissed me the you-know-what off. I have no such rules about the Cowboys (I encourage them to root for both teams).

I don't know why of all the things we've had conflict over this one gets under my skin the most. Maybe to overcompensate, I buy the kids a lot of Pats and Sox gear. No one gives them grief about the Sox. But they get crap for Pats gear. It's become a rallying point for us. The Patriots, watching them, and talking about the haters, has, among other normal family stuff, brought us together. Monday, this week, after the Super Bowl they went to school fully decked out in their gear. When I got them back on Wednesday I asked if anyone gave them crap this time. Not a word. Even their mom said it was one of the greatest games and greatest wins of all time.

Many of my friends and family do not like the Patriots. After the game texts trickled in. The theme? I still don't like the Patriots but I respect them more than ever. BB and TB12 are the goats. Now please stop winning and give someone else a chance.

Sure there will always be people who don't like the Patriots. It feels like the narrative and opinions have turned though to one of respect (or begrudging respect). I heard from a surprising number of people who normally want anything but a Pats win talk about how they started hoping the Pats would win because the comeback was so exciting.

It used to be that for every 3 NFL fans I would talk to 2 would bring up deflategate as evidence the Pats are cheaters and 1 would say it was BS. In my small world that ratio has flipped and even the people who bring it up say it probably didn't matter because the Pats are so good. It gets even better. People love that our fans booed Goodell and think he was either completely wrong or overreached in his punishment. Script flipped. Kearse reversed. Damn it feels good to be a Pats fan.
 

Reverend

for king and country
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I'm divorced. When we were together we raised the kids to like my teams (Boston) and hers (Dallas). When deflategate happened she told the kids not to root for cheaters. Hearing that they can't root for the Pats at her house pissed me the you-know-what off. I have no such rules about the Cowboys (I encourage them to root for both teams).

I don't know why of all the things we've had conflict over this one gets under my skin the most. Maybe to overcompensate, I buy the kids a lot of Pats and Sox gear. No one gives them grief about the Sox. But they get crap for Pats gear. It's become a rallying point for us. The Patriots, watching them, and talking about the haters, has, among other normal family stuff, brought us together. Monday, this week, after the Super Bowl they went to school fully decked out in their gear. When I got them back on Wednesday I asked if anyone gave them crap this time. Not a word. Even their mom said it was one of the greatest games and greatest wins of all time.

Many of my friends and family do not like the Patriots. After the game texts trickled in. The theme? I still don't like the Patriots but I respect them more than ever. BB and TB12 are the goats. Now please stop winning and give someone else a chance.

Sure there will always be people who don't like the Patriots. It feels like the narrative and opinions have turned though to one of respect (or begrudging respect). I heard from a surprising number of people who normally want anything but a Pats win talk about how they started hoping the Pats would win because the comeback was so exciting.

It used to be that for every 3 NFL fans I would talk to 2 would bring up deflategate as evidence the Pats are cheaters and 1 would say it was BS. In my small world that ratio has flipped and even the people who bring it up say it probably didn't matter because the Pats are so good. It gets even better. People love that our fans booed Goodell and think he was either completely wrong or overreached in his punishment. Script flipped. Kearse reversed. Damn it feels good to be a Pats fan.
 

reggiecleveland

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Regarding OT. The league-wide conversion percentage on drives is under 50%, well below 50% for drives ending in TD's. I can't find specific percentages for drives beginning at the 25. But either way, I think OT is perfectly fine as is.
Agreed.
We have already played an entire game. It is the most brutal sport, they need a resolution. If we are all tied after 60, well now it is do or die. You give up a TD you lose. You get the ball back all you need is a FG.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
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Nov 28, 2005
7,199
CA
We live in SoCal and I don't think I've ever been prouder of my 6-year old daughter when she came home on Monday and said "Dad, some of the kids 'booed' me for wearing my Tom Brady jersey at school today.". When I asked her how it made her feel, she said:

"I liked it."

Fucking-A-Right you did.
 

dbn

Member
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Feb 10, 2007
7,785
La Mancha.
Agreed.
We have already played an entire game. It is the most brutal sport, they need a resolution. If we are all tied after 60, well now it is do or die. You give up a TD you lose. You get the ball back all you need is a FG.
A football game consists of four 15-minute periods. In the regular season, if the score is even at the end of 60 minutes, the game should be a draw. That itself is the resolution.

In a knockout tournament such as the NFL playoffs, there indeed is a need for further resolution. So, play another period of the football (i.e., not something similar to football, like they do in college). If it remains tied, play another quarter. Perhaps at some point you go to Golden Goal - er, I mean sudden death.
 
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tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
37,069
Hingham, MA
We live in SoCal and I don't think I've ever been prouder of my 6-year old daughter when she came home on Monday and said "Dad, some of the kids 'booed' me for wearing my Tom Brady jersey at school today.". When I asked her how it made her feel, she said:

"I liked it."

Fucking-A-Right you did.
You sir have raised your daughter well
 

kelpapa

Costanza's Hero
SoSH Member
Feb 15, 2010
4,639
Many of my friends and family do not like the Patriots. After the game texts trickled in. The theme? I still don't like the Patriots but I respect them more than ever. BB and TB12 are the goats. Now please stop winning and give someone else a chance.
I have lived outside New England for 11 years, and this is the first time I'm actually hearing this. People who hate them and wouldn't give them any credit - as recently as last year - have been saying they are the GOATs. It's amazing.
 

loshjott

Member
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Dec 30, 2004
14,946
Silver Spring, MD
I'm divorced. When we were together we raised the kids to like my teams (Boston) and hers (Dallas). When deflategate happened she told the kids not to root for cheaters. Hearing that they can't root for the Pats at her house pissed me the you-know-what off. I have no such rules about the Cowboys (I encourage them to root for both teams).

I don't know why of all the things we've had conflict over this one gets under my skin the most. Maybe to overcompensate, I buy the kids a lot of Pats and Sox gear. No one gives them grief about the Sox. But they get crap for Pats gear. It's become a rallying point for us. The Patriots, watching them, and talking about the haters, has, among other normal family stuff, brought us together. Monday, this week, after the Super Bowl they went to school fully decked out in their gear. When I got them back on Wednesday I asked if anyone gave them crap this time. Not a word. Even their mom said it was one of the greatest games and greatest wins of all time.

Many of my friends and family do not like the Patriots. After the game texts trickled in. The theme? I still don't like the Patriots but I respect them more than ever. BB and TB12 are the goats. Now please stop winning and give someone else a chance.

Sure there will always be people who don't like the Patriots. It feels like the narrative and opinions have turned though to one of respect (or begrudging respect). I heard from a surprising number of people who normally want anything but a Pats win talk about how they started hoping the Pats would win because the comeback was so exciting.

It used to be that for every 3 NFL fans I would talk to 2 would bring up deflategate as evidence the Pats are cheaters and 1 would say it was BS. In my small world that ratio has flipped and even the people who bring it up say it probably didn't matter because the Pats are so good. It gets even better. People love that our fans booed Goodell and think he was either completely wrong or overreached in his punishment. Script flipped. Kearse reversed. Damn it feels good to be a Pats fan.
With an attitude like that about rooting for cheaters, I'm guessing you didn't meet your ex at SMU.
 

PBDWake

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May 1, 2008
3,686
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I have literally no idea why someone would engage in a sports debate outside their home market. Sports fans are generally idiots and the times you find someone to have an intelligent discussion with rank in the single digit percentages. Add in being a Boston fan - everyone hates us and has for awhile - and it's not worth it.

Just fucking let it go or avoid it.
This, times a thousand. Sports is one of those things that has a way of putting blinders on people.

I always have a laugh because I know a lot of people who berate Trump and other Rs for latching on to the one "scientist" in a sea of scientists ignoring the weather data and proclaiming climate change to be fraudulent. Those same people have no problem ignoring a swath of scientists talking about atmospheric data to call the Pats cheaters for their own sports blinders version of "It's snowing in March, talk to me about global warming now lol".

You won't ever win. The only way to not lose is to not engage.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,297
AZ
I like the current overtime situation. I think we need to let the stats play out and see where we are in a couple of years. The object should be something that makes it close to a 50/50 proposition.

I think you could slightly tweak the current system if it's still a few percentage points off from 50/50 by changing starting field position for the team that gets the ball first. I think there's a point at which teams (in general, not in a specific case) would be in equipoise about whether to take the ball or not. For example, if you changed the rule only to say that the team that gets the ball first has to start on the 5 yard line, I would think the percentages for the team that gets the ball second would go way up. Maybe the combination of the first-possession TD victory plus the 25 yard line rule for touchbacks has skewed things a bit in the other direction. My guess is if you eliminate the opening kickoff in OT and put the first possession around the 15 or so, but otherwise keep it the way it is, you'd fix any disparity and get closer to a 50/50 proposition.

A five (six, seven) quarter game is just too long. I agree with a first-to-score model tweaked only as much as necessary to neutralize the first-possession problem. I think the NFL has it right in keeping it a first-to-score proposition with only one exception as it is now. I believe that a small tweak can make it 50/50.
 

DourDoerr

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I have literally no idea why someone would engage in a sports debate outside their home market.
One thing I've noticed is that this site has warped me somewhat. Reading all the in-depth posts here deludes me into thinking other Pats fans are similarly wired. I live in Berkeley and run into Pats fans all the time. They're mostly well-educated and smart, but when we start talking Pats, I'm always disappointed. It doesn't go much further than "that was a good game." Draft, deflategate, roster decisions, etc. - it's all off the table. Hard to understand that level of fandom, but it's typical I'd guess.
 
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Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
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Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
all well and good for people living around large clusters of like minded Patriots fans. Little hard when living outside the market.

And as much fun as this site is, there is still something for live conversation. So not much choice unless I never want to talk sports live.
No, it's really not that hard. I lived out of market for fifteen years and had plenty of sports discussions with people - friends and strangers - during the height of people hating on Boston, including Spygate and the Sox becoming annoying to a lot of other fan bases.

You're never going to 'win' or convince someone in these discussions. You're just going to end up pissed off. If you aren't in friendly territory and want to be able to talk sports live - which is perfectly reasonable and admirable - learn about more than your team. Learn to talk about a sport in general. I lived in D.C. and actively hated most of their teams fans (absent Natstown!) for reasons not relevant here, but I engaged in perfectly satisfying debates or discussions by avoiding the temptation to turn it into a battle or a defensive stand. It's no different than politics.

It's perfectly easy to talk about sports in general without affiliation. Saying 'I can't talk sports because I don't live in Pats country and everyone hates us' is saying 'I try to steer the conversation towards proving we are persecuted'. And you're never going to win that argument. Fuck, I'm a pats fan and I wouldn't even engage in that with someone. It's annoying. Avoid it and anyone trying to go there.

If you you're having trouble talking sports without it turning into a fight about hating the Pats or Sox or Boston or 'CHEATERS!!' whatever, learn about more than your own team and be able to talk about the local team as well, the sport or league in general, history of the sport, etc.

If not, when you sit down at the bar, rather than open your mouth, just repeatedly bang your forehead onto the bar top and save yourself the mental anguish. This place is not representative of the abilities of the average fan to have an intelligent conversation.
 

SamCassellsStones

New Member
Feb 8, 2017
130
I have lived outside New England for 11 years, and this is the first time I'm actually hearing this. People who hate them and wouldn't give them any credit - as recently as last year - have been saying they are the GOATs. It's amazing.
I live outside of NE as well, and I'd say "begrudging respect" is the general tone of the workplace. I've also gotten a lot of "Tom Brady's great, I just wish he wasn't so arrogant". I'm never really sure what to say... in his interviews, all he ever does is credit his family, support system, teammates, etc. In fact, I'd say he's remarkably grounded for someone who has lead such a charmed life.

I can see how Belichick comes across as arrogant (although would disagree), but leave Touchdown Tom alone!
 

reggiecleveland

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I live in Canada so the only time I get grief is when the Jays are good. There are tons of Bruins fans, and hockey is the obvious topic of discussion most of the time.

But, I talk sports all the time, and most of it is very positive. It is just like talking politics, but with more facts. I have convinced quite a few Jays fans Ortiz did not fail a drug test and is not a "proven juicer". The Patriots are harder to defend, just because the cheater narrative is now a lazy joke often used by hack comedians. I have heard three or four patriots cheated the indians out of their land jokes around American thanksgiving.
 

dhappy42

Straw Man
Oct 27, 2013
15,725
Michigan
I like the current overtime situation. I think we need to let the stats play out and see where we are in a couple of years. The object should be something that makes it close to a 50/50 proposition.

I think you could slightly tweak the current system if it's still a few percentage points off from 50/50 by changing starting field position for the team that gets the ball first. I think there's a point at which teams (in general, not in a specific case) would be in equipoise about whether to take the ball or not. For example, if you changed the rule only to say that the team that gets the ball first has to start on the 5 yard line, I would think the percentages for the team that gets the ball second would go way up. Maybe the combination of the first-possession TD victory plus the 25 yard line rule for touchbacks has skewed things a bit in the other direction. My guess is if you eliminate the opening kickoff in OT and put the first possession around the 15 or so, but otherwise keep it the way it is, you'd fix any disparity and get closer to a 50/50 proposition.

A five (six, seven) quarter game is just too long. I agree with a first-to-score model tweaked only as much as necessary to neutralize the first-possession problem. I think the NFL has it right in keeping it a first-to-score proposition with only one exception as it is now. I believe that a small tweak can make it 50/50.
I have no problem with the current system. If the team that loses the toss can't prevent a TD they deserve to lose the game.

On the other hand, giving the second team a chance to score too wouldn't bother me. But to minimize OT ties when both teams score TDs, you could require the team that scores second to go for two extra points to win... assuming the team that scores first would kick for one 99% of the time.

To me, that seems closer to "let's keep it as close to regulation play football as possible" than getting rid of kick offs and kick returns (special teams are a big part of the game) or calculating odds-balancing starting points for OT possessions. The only change you'd be making is eliminating the coach's decision to go for a tie or a win if the second team scores a TD too. Won't even come up that often.
 

Pandemonium67

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Apr 17, 2003
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Another alternative is to keep things the way they are, but give the second a team a chance even if the first scores a TD.

The second team would have the advantage of knowing what they need to do, but this is mitigated somewhat by the first team getting the advantage of winning with only a FG should it be tied after one possession each.

Any system that removes or minimizes kickoffs and other special team plays, such as the college system, is fatally flawed IMO. I think BB would agree.
 

Harry Hooper

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It's more about Pash than Goodell.

I reported last year that Kraft had a particular ire for league counsel Jeff Pash in the handling of the Deflategate investigation, and ownership sources said that has by no means subsided. Pash has been a less public league figure since the fallout of the Ted Wells/NFL investigation into the Patriots, but remains a bone of contention between that franchise and the league office.

"Robert still wants Pash out," another ownership source said. "The only way there will ever be a full reconnect between the Patriots and Goodell is if Pash was no longer there."

Kraft came in and rescued the last round of CBA negotiations, thereby ruining Pash's multiyear plan to bust the NFLPA. Pash got his payback in Deflategate.
 

ifmanis5

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Sep 29, 2007
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On to Shirtgate...
Report: Roger Goodell ‘Really Bothered’ By Matt Patricia’s Clown Shirt
Link: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-nfl-execs-seething-at-patriots-super-bowl-antics-clown-t-shirt/
"The T-shirt really bothered him," according to one ownership source who had been in contact with big wigs at the league office. "The fact that Kraft didn't stop him from wearing that ticked some people off, but did they really think he's going to protect Goodell after all of this?"
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
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I realize this is petty, but this wrap-up of the anti-Goodell paraphernalia and statements by the Pats during the parade really made me happy. You're a chump, Roger.
 

E5 Yaz

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I realize this is petty, but this wrap-up of the anti-Goodell paraphernalia and statements by the Pats during the parade really made me happy. You're a chump, Roger.
You really need to start reading the posts directly above yours before posting in threads.
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
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Feb 4, 2012
38,188
Strange thing about the Tom Brady commercial is that they had to buy the ad space ahead of time...what was their back up if the Pats lost? No way they play the OG commercial in that spot.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
53,853
Strange thing about the Tom Brady commercial is that they had to buy the ad space ahead of time...what was their back up if the Pats lost? No way they play the OG commercial in that spot.
Another commercial that doesn't reference 5 rings?
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
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Aug 15, 2006
6,424
You only need to watch the parade to see the true emotions of this team. I've never seen the Patriots of all teams, the rigid military team show that much emotion. 53 players and coaches on top of that pretty much screaming fuck Goodell. Amendola with a fire Goodell hat, Patricia wearing the clown shirt, Gronk booing Goodell. I mean I'm shocked that Bill let this happen but at the same time I think it shows that the team felt Brady got railroaded and used it as motivation. Well done
 

simplyeric

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Feb 14, 2006
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I live outside of NE as well, and I'd say "begrudging respect" is the general tone of the workplace. I've also gotten a lot of "Tom Brady's great, I just wish he wasn't so arrogant". I'm never really sure what to say... in his interviews, all he ever does is credit his family, support system, teammates, etc. In fact, I'd say he's remarkably grounded for someone who has lead such a charmed life.

I can see how Belichick comes across as arrogant (although would disagree), but leave Touchdown Tom alone!
I live in Jetstown Brooklyn.
Somehow I manage to have lots of good conversations about the Pats. They fucking hate the Patriots here...but if you're good natured and know when to walk away (or just laugh it off) it goes well. I've made a few 'friends' particularly with the folks behind the bar, they give me grief, but it's all fun.

I also have this at work, and with other folks I know (friends of friends, etc).

Sure, a lot of times I just have to say to myself 'this isn't ultimately constructive' but it can still be fun.

Honestly, there's a joke about too many spoons in this post somewhere.
 

PedroKsBambino

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You only need to watch the parade to see the true emotions of this team. I've never seen the Patriots of all teams, the rigid military team show that much emotion. 53 players and coaches on top of that pretty much screaming fuck Goodell. Amendola with a fire Goodell hat, Patricia wearing the clown shirt, Gronk booing Goodell. I mean I'm shocked that Bill let this happen but at the same time I think it shows that the team felt Brady got railroaded and used it as motivation. Well done
Agreed. Plus, keep in mind the team knows that Brady's mother was being treated for a serious disease during much of the persecution, too. I would guess there's no shortage of guys in that building who'd love to pop Goodell if they ran into him in a dark alley
 

Reverend

for king and country
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No, it's really not that hard. I lived out of market for fifteen years and had plenty of sports discussions with people - friends and strangers - during the height of people hating on Boston, including Spygate and the Sox becoming annoying to a lot of other fan bases.

You're never going to 'win' or convince someone in these discussions. You're just going to end up pissed off. If you aren't in friendly territory and want to be able to talk sports live - which is perfectly reasonable and admirable - learn about more than your team. Learn to talk about a sport in general. I lived in D.C. and actively hated most of their teams fans (absent Natstown!) for reasons not relevant here, but I engaged in perfectly satisfying debates or discussions by avoiding the temptation to turn it into a battle or a defensive stand. It's no different than politics.

It's perfectly easy to talk about sports in general without affiliation. Saying 'I can't talk sports because I don't live in Pats country and everyone hates us' is saying 'I try to steer the conversation towards proving we are persecuted'. And you're never going to win that argument. Fuck, I'm a pats fan and I wouldn't even engage in that with someone. It's annoying. Avoid it and anyone trying to go there.

If you you're having trouble talking sports without it turning into a fight about hating the Pats or Sox or Boston or 'CHEATERS!!' whatever, learn about more than your own team and be able to talk about the local team as well, the sport or league in general, history of the sport, etc.

If not, when you sit down at the bar, rather than open your mouth, just repeatedly bang your forehead onto the bar top and save yourself the mental anguish. This place is not representative of the abilities of the average fan to have an intelligent conversation.
My experience is different than yours.
 

Dotrat

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2,135
Morris County NJ
I've lived in the NYC area for the last 26 years--Manhattan, Westchester, and now NJ--and worked in midtown through this entire period. Most of my sports interactions have been fine, mostly because the majority of NY (and other non-Boston) fans I've met and talked to have been, at the very least, pretty well-informed. They love sports--and most realized early on that D-Gate was a total farce. So I've been lucky.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,249
I came to think that if you are a baseball fan and not an asshole, that you eventually had to come around to the idea that watching Mariano Rivera (to name a Yankee of recent vintage) was a privilege (in a sports-watching sense). A football fan that can't get there about Brady needs a life.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,662
where I was last at
I live in Jetstown Brooklyn.
Somehow I manage to have lots of good conversations about the Pats. They fucking hate the Patriots here...but if you're good natured and know when to walk away (or just laugh it off) it goes well. I've made a few 'friends' particularly with the folks behind the bar, they give me grief, but it's all fun.


My situation is similar to the above, I've lived in metro NYC since the early 80s, starting in Brooklyn, (Cobble Hill) the last 17 in suburban Essex county NJ, and live, work and drink with Boston sports haters. The locals are passionate and knowledgable and hate the Pats. Starting Sunday night I got texts from Giant & Jets - drinking buddies about another lucky Pats win. Monday I collected their bets at the bar. Then I bought drinks. Then we argued about the game and busted balls and laughed. It will never change.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
Sports talk is like teasing. If you act all upset and take the bait, you get more. If you tease back it turns good natured.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,662
where I was last at
Not all the time.

A couple of years ago I was real close to taking a shot when I was "teasing" a shit-faced Bronco fan (when they got their ass kicked by Seattle in the SB). He was a lot younger (30 to 60) and probably stronger than me, but the alcohol made him stupid and I probably could have dropped him But cooler heads prevailed. Teasing and drunks and sports sometimes doesn't mix so well. .
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,958
Saskatoon Canada
I know an obnoxious Yankee fan, (actually Habs, Lakers, Yankees, NY Ginats, Duke, was Miami in college football, but switched to Alabama recently) and it is the oppoite he is older and half my size and a drunk. Anyway he is a booster for the college hoops team I used to coach, and stayed away from games all of November and December 04 because he didn't want to see me. He would text people and see if I was at the game. This was after years of trash talk. His wife once gave me permission to drop him. Anyway I came late to a game and our home team was up 30 with 6 minutes left. I walked up behind him as he slurred, "this ones in the bag thash for sure!"
"Not even Joe Torre could blow this lead," I remarked. He turned and threw an easily dodged punch then stumbled to floor.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
My experience is different than yours.

To D.C. specifically or in general (I *think you're in that area but might have you confused with another)?

To D.C., I always found the only people (for local fans) that are going to get worked up over anything are Redskins fans. The other team's fans are too fair weather and the city is so transient to begin with that the average conversation is going to occur with someone from 'the field' to begin with. Suburbs are a bit different but still, short of Skins I never met many who were legit passionate fans of the other local teams.

The transient people, sure, they'd put up a fight and they're obviously prominent, but if one gets frustrated by a sports argument with a stranger it's their own fault - no different than politics or religion you're not going to convince of sway someone you've never met before over the course of a few drinks. If it is someone you know than you've probably had that talk before or should know to avoid it. Or as Marciano noted, learn to be playful with it and if/when that doesn't play out, cut bait.

Sports. Politics. Religion.

None should ever be discussed with strangers and certainly never in a bar or at work. No one is ever going to 'win' except in their own mind and life is too short to subject oneself to that voluntarily imho.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
32,623
Sports talk is like teasing. If you act all upset and take the bait, you get more. If you tease back it turns good natured.

I was willing to talk a little bullshit about spygate because the Pats really did break a rule. The punishment was outlandish and the competitive advantage likely nil but it did happen and it was decent material for funny banter. Trying to pretend taking half a pound of pressure out of a football mattered is something I couldn't even troll in real life about. I'd feel dumber than someone that got scammed by Jill Stein.