Everything is Awful

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Jul 22, 2006
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So A few days ago in another thread I was able to express some of my feelings (that I'm sure many people share) about the state of this World Cup:

It’s fascinating that this whole project may backfire and end up exposing the awfulness of everything around the cup- late stage capitalism, fundamentalist savagery directed at the vulnerable, transparent propaganda, climate destructive fuels and practices, corruption, etc, etc, etc.

I have struggled greatly with this tournament. I am a boycotter by nature; I don’t like wrestling with nagging moral doubts, It takes the enjoyment out of things for me. I’ve really gone back-and-forth on watching this World Cup. I don’t think I felt the same way in 2018, but I probably should have. I’ve really gone back-and-forth on watching this World Cup- it’s been a real struggle to decide what to do.
(I don’t think I felt the same way in 2018, but I probably should have)
I’ve been trying to figure out how I’ll be able to enjoy the football without being disgusted with everything else, but it’s gotten so embarrassingly cartoonishly villainous, I may enjoy watching the meltdown and chaos that occurs.
I thought it would be good to have a thread to document the issues with this tournament and collect articles and information on the real world off-field issues at hand...there are many important issues both short and long term around this event. Football and global politics are never that far apart.

I think the way I process some of the darkness is through humor, so I'll start with this tweet:
View: https://twitter.com/jessehawken/status/1594380563779125251?s=20&t=hRDbMHKK2-S0fXBcJJmdtg
 

67YAZ

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On the countries backing down on the rainbow arm band:

Goodness. So inspiring to read that multi-millionaire international athletes almost had the courage to put a piece of fabric on their arms. Shepherding a trans child through multiple suicide attempts and struggling for years working out their crippling gender dysphoria, I get how hard it must be for real men of courage like Harry Kane to risk having some crusty old man wave a yellow card in your face on tv. I couldn’t bear the thought of it. I’ll be able to sleep better tonight knowing that millions of football fans the world over won’t have to worry about those mean old men at FIFA getting crabby because some young men almost worked up the guts to say something icky like “killing trans people is bad.” Thank god for the cooler heads at FIFA or someone might get upset and cry in their Bud Zero.
 

The Gray Eagle

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John Oliver on the World Cup:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqLDhl8PXw&t=9s


Some highlights:
FIFA is "a cartel-like group of scumbags and assorted criminals who occasionally put on soccer matches."
"I won't say that Qatar definitely got the World Cup through bribery. But I won't say that they didn't. And I will say that they did."
“An atrocity of stadiums.”
 

candylandriots

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As I’m thinking about this a bit, a team (or teams) should either/and a) put the armband on someone in the third group game if they’re through already (or eliminated) b) put the armband on a goalkeeper c) put the armband on a non-essential player (or player about to be removed) and use one of the million subs allowed to take him off. Make FIFA own this bullshit.
 
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Time to Mo Vaughn

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As I’m thinking about this a bit, a team (or teams) should either/and a) put the armband on someone in the third group game if they’re through already (or eliminated) b) put the armband on a goalkeeper c) put the armband on a non-essential player (or player about to be removed) and use one of the million subs allowed to take him off. Make FIFA own this bullshit.
I was thinking the same thing. I'm gonna be really disappointed if there's not a single team that wears the arm band at some point in the tourney.

If anything the yellow, makes it all the more powerful and draws more attention.
 

SocrManiac

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I don’t think the referees are automatically going to issue the cards. Coordination might be the best bet, and let FIFA punish the match officials AND the players after the fact. See how well that goes over.
 

SocrManiac

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Awesome from the Germans for their pre-match team photo:


Athletic is reporting that Denmark isn't going to support Infantino and wants to discuss having UEFA break away from FIFA: https://theathletic.com/3926702/2022/11/23/denmark-uefa-fifa-withdraw

UEFA breaking away from FIFA feels like quitting drinking by cutting out only liquor but continuing with beer and wine.

Norway has no confidence in Infantino: https://www.nrk.no/sport/nff-har-fatt-nok-av-fifa-og-president-gianni-infantino_-_-ikke-tillit-til-infantino-1.16191540

With the money involved it seems impossible that the sport can be corruption free. I do feel like there's more desire to pull out of this downward spiral than we've seen in the past.
 

reggiecleveland

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Really surprised by my students. I teach ESL and lots of refugee kids. Often these kids are very critical of the Gulf States, especially Saudi Arabia since they were often UN camps for 2-4 years before winning a lottery to come to Canada, while the only people going to the Gulf were as migrant workers. But, universally all my Muslim students (except one Iranian student) are repeating the party line that this is the best WC ever that the workers were overpaid and lucky to have the jobs, and the stadiums will be used as hospitals after the WC. Very effective PR in Arabic language News it would appear.
 

OCST

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Awesome from the Germans for their pre-match team photo:


Athletic is reporting that Denmark isn't going to support Infantino and wants to discuss having UEFA break away from FIFA: https://theathletic.com/3926702/2022/11/23/denmark-uefa-fifa-withdraw

UEFA breaking away from FIFA feels like quitting drinking by cutting out only liquor but continuing with beer and wine.

Norway has no confidence in Infantino: https://www.nrk.no/sport/nff-har-fatt-nok-av-fifa-og-president-gianni-infantino_-_-ikke-tillit-til-infantino-1.16191540

With the money involved it seems impossible that the sport can be corruption free. I do feel like there's more desire to pull out of this downward spiral than we've seen in the past.
Sorry -- I'm even more cynical about the "UEFA breaking away from FIFA over this" thing. That's been rumored for years, and it's all about the filthy lucre. It would be the most corrupt football thing ever, for the national federations to get on their moral high horse on this issue, and use it as the pretext for doing what they want to do anyway, for other rea$on$.
 

SocrManiac

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I read an article I now can’t find (making it more suspect) that a yellow was the first step in a disciplinary process. It would still be an effective statement for a player to wear it and have it carded off, but it might not be that with the player will be allowed to carry on. I don’t think they’ll be able to play with it.

I’m also not convinced every official would issue the card. Imagine a situation where the US and England draw a sympathetic referee, he doesn’t issue the cards, and he’s replaced.
 

candylandriots

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I read an article I now can’t find (making it more suspect) that a yellow was the first step in a disciplinary process. It would still be an effective statement for a player to wear it and have it carded off, but it might not be that with the player will be allowed to carry on. I don’t think they’ll be able to play with it.

I’m also not convinced every official would issue the card. Imagine a situation where the US and England draw a sympathetic referee, he doesn’t issue the cards, and he’s replaced.
I think it was probably in the discussion about UEFA threatening to pull out of FIFA. There were suggestions that the yellow was the “minimum” punishment. Here’s one article noting that from Danish sources.

https://www.football.london/international-football/denmark-threaten-fifa-onelove-withdrawl-25586039?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target
 

SocrManiac

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I don’t know that I agree with that. I don’t think it will have any effect at all on a sympathetic domestic league.
 

lars10

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A team/player would be praised for wearing the armband, a referee that didn't punish them would have their career destroyed.
You really think so? A ref would have their career destroyed for not giving a yellow for an armband in favor of love of all people? Do you just mean fifa matches or any matches? Seems unlikely to me.
 

BrazilianSoxFan

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You really think so? A ref would have their career destroyed for not giving a yellow for an armband in favor of love of all people? Do you just mean fifa matches or any matches? Seems unlikely to me.
It would, at the very least, put a hard ceiling in their careers. Fifa could also remove their accreditation.

It's a lot more risky for a referee than for a player, they have a lot more to lose.
 

SocrManiac

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I’m not seeing it. It’ll put FIFA in an untenable position moving forward.

I’m genuinely starting to feel like this is the straw that breaks FIFA’s corruption back. They have the full backing of countries with oil money but suspect or awful human rights records. Few other countries are public ally supportive.

If the Denmark FA president runs against Infantino (as I think I got from the Google translate version of that article), it might do the trick.
 

trekfan55

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If letting this farce of a host country go on brings about enough change and pressure at the top in FIFA it may have been worth it.
 

BrazilianSoxFan

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Do you think that the referees should gamble heir careers on FIFA not being corrupt enough to punish them, in public or even just shadowbanning from international competitions?
 

SocrManiac

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I think there will be referees planning to retire from the world stage that would be fine with it. Their domestic leagues are going to support them.
 

Batman Likes The Sox

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A team/player would be praised for wearing the armband, a referee that didn't punish them would have their career destroyed.
Unless… they make the player remove the armband and then PUT IT ON THEMSELVES AND RESUME PLAY

Then they are suddenly a famous ref on magazine covers and probably an untouchable career.
 

CSteinhardt

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I would be so proud of the US to take a yellow to wear the armband.

I think it's even worse than that. There obviously isn't anything in the Laws of the Game that says you can't wear an armband. The closest justification is deciding that it's "dangerous" equipment so the equivalent of wearing an earring while playing. The punishment for that would be twofold: a caution, but also you cannot continue playing until the improper equipment has been corrected. So the referee would have to both caution the player and then not allow them onto the pitch until the armband was removed.

Though hopefully FIFA would step in first and do something sensible?
 

djbayko

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DJnVa

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I hope we get some closure on this absolute beauty. This guy knows he is going to fucked up but still runs that out there; I hope there is demand for his story to remain public.
Arrested World Cup pitch invader says Fifa boss Infantino helped secure his release (inews.co.uk)

Mr Ferri, who has invaded the pitch at previous tournaments and internationals, said Mr Infantino had asked him why he made a protest at the Qatar World Cup as it was “very dangerous”.

Mr Infantino’s apparent intervention may come as a surprise to some after he was heavily criticised for an extraordinary outburst on the eve of the World Cup, in which he declared he felt “gay” and “like a migrant worker”.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Nice to hear, thanks.

Johnny may be a bit short on morals and ethics but he's no fool.

This is the potential positive out of this cup, right? That so many negative things get exposed and then improved on through pressure. It reminds me a bit of how Nike got so much heat for their (essentially) slave labor that they ended up being better w/r/t some of their practices. Now, do I think that long term and effective changes will be made in Qatar and other regional Authoritarian Monarchies regarding the treatment of LGBTQ+ people, females, and migrant workers? No, sadly I don't. It might even be worse for them in the short term, beginning say...December 19th. But perhaps enough light has been shined on what lies under the rug that some cleaning will get done.
 

trekfan55

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Nice to hear, thanks.

Johnny may be a bit short on morals and ethics but he's no fool.

This is the potential positive out of this cup, right? That so many negative things get exposed and then improved on through pressure. It reminds me a bit of how Nike got so much heat for their (essentially) slave labor that they ended up being better w/r/t some of their practices. Now, do I think that long term and effective changes will be made in Qatar and other regional Authoritarian Monarchies regarding the treatment of LGBTQ+ people, females, and migrant workers? No, sadly I don't. It might even be worse for them in the short term, beginning say...December 19th. But perhaps enough light has been shined on what lies under the rug that some cleaning will get done.
I would just be happy that organizations such as FIFA stop doing events in places like these.

I have seen so many people in social media saying "It's their rules, we must respect them or not go" or words to that effect. That is not the point. Giving such a country the World Cup is an atrocity.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Jul 22, 2006
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I would just be happy that organizations such as FIFA stop doing events in places like these.

I have seen so many people in social media saying "It's their rules, we must respect them or not go" or words to that effect. That is not the point. Giving such a country the World Cup is an atrocity.
I don't disagree at all, was just trying to find a possible silver lining. The atrocity is multiplied by 1000 because it's not like organizations put events in these countries because of altruistic motivations, just the intoxicating stench of money and power.

Edit: By these countries I'm referring to nations whose ruling parties use the power of the state to prevent or take away basic human rights of liberty and safety.
 
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shaggydog2000

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Nice to hear, thanks.

Johnny may be a bit short on morals and ethics but he's no fool.

This is the potential positive out of this cup, right? That so many negative things get exposed and then improved on through pressure. It reminds me a bit of how Nike got so much heat for their (essentially) slave labor that they ended up being better w/r/t some of their practices. Now, do I think that long term and effective changes will be made in Qatar and other regional Authoritarian Monarchies regarding the treatment of LGBTQ+ people, females, and migrant workers? No, sadly I don't. It might even be worse for them in the short term, beginning say...December 19th. But perhaps enough light has been shined on what lies under the rug that some cleaning will get done.
They're going to change the official policies and then look the other way at the same abuses. That way they can keep the foreign potential visitors happy while also not riling up the tiny percentage of their population that are actual citizens.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Really surprised by my students. I teach ESL and lots of refugee kids. Often these kids are very critical of the Gulf States, especially Saudi Arabia since they were often UN camps for 2-4 years before winning a lottery to come to Canada, while the only people going to the Gulf were as migrant workers. But, universally all my Muslim students (except one Iranian student) are repeating the party line that this is the best WC ever that the workers were overpaid and lucky to have the jobs, and the stadiums will be used as hospitals after the WC. Very effective PR in Arabic language News it would appear.
I'll be the contrarian in this thread and say I think your students might not be just repeating the party line or susceptible to PR, and you might want to give credit to them for thinking it through even if you don't agree with their conclusions. This could be for a few different reasons. For one, there's the baseline people are using. Qatar conditions for migrant workers may be terrible compared to Western standards, but they really are better conditions for the migrant workers than what they have back in their home countries, and many South Asian workers have provided for their families and made a very good life for themselves back home through remittances from such work. There are thus generally more positive views of Qatar among populations of sending countries and generally among Asia, Africa, and MENA countries. I feel like Western coverage of Qatar tends to conflate the Gulf states, including their treatment of workers, and the actual practices (as opposed to de jure laws) as regard to rights, when there's a spectrum from Saudi Arabia on one extreme to Bahrain perhaps on the other side.

Also, if your students are really critical about Saudi Arabia that makes them all the more likely to support Qatar, given the political/social dynamics of the region. (There's also unfortunately the possibility that there is some bias against South Asians among your students.)
 

reggiecleveland

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I'll be the contrarian in this thread and say I think your students might not be just repeating the party line or susceptible to PR, and you might want to give credit to them for thinking it through even if you don't agree with their conclusions. This could be for a few different reasons. For one, there's the baseline people are using. Qatar conditions for migrant workers may be terrible compared to Western standards, but they really are better conditions for the migrant workers than what they have back in their home countries, and many South Asian workers have provided for their families and made a very good life for themselves back home through remittances from such work. There are thus generally more positive views of Qatar among populations of sending countries and generally among Asia, Africa, and MENA countries. I feel like Western coverage of Qatar tends to conflate the Gulf states, including their treatment of workers, and the actual practices (as opposed to de jure laws) as regard to rights, when there's a spectrum from Saudi Arabia on one extreme to Bahrain perhaps on the other side.

Also, if your students are really critical about Saudi Arabia that makes them all the more likely to support Qatar, given the political/social dynamics of the region. (There's also unfortunately the possibility that there is some bias against South Asians among your students.)
I will say that my Arabic students generally have a bias against kids from India, Pakistan, etc. At least one has used "they are from India and not even Muslim" as a reason workers should be grateful to Qatar for even allowing them into the country. It is typical teen immature thinking. This discussion came up because the Arabic students feel Canada is "wasting" money on the world cup and should pay them more for their job at MacDonald's. I had to change the subject because this group of students began to blame "The (insert word Dave Chappelle says should never follow "the") for all the world's problems. Before I taught ESL Canadain students often in Social Studies class would, with similar thinking suggest a ton of new government services and also tax cuts.
 
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