Everton 21-22: No Not I, I Will Survive

teddykgb

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Jul 16, 2005
10,110
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Roberto Martinez is an awful manager and you’d be nuts to go back to that well. That’s an outcome that is only fathomable because Everton have been so stupid recently
 

mikeford

woolwich!
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Aug 6, 2006
27,879
St John's, NL
I forgot he'd ever even been there.

What's Tony Pulis doing these days, he was another "keep you up and ruin your style of football" type of guy
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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The 718
Martinez more and more. Gah. Moshiri you fool. His tenure ended badly. Same kind of toxicity (not nearly as bad but still). Stop screwing around give it to Dunc hire a DOF and have a plan for the permanenthire ffs
 

SocrManiac

Tommy Seebach’s mustache
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Apr 15, 2006
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God I hope it's Martinez. I love confirmation I'm smarter than people with infinitely more money than me.
 

Nick Kaufman

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It's crazy that Everton sold one of their best players because he didn't get along with the manager, and then turned around and fired that manager a week later. Absolutely no vision or plan or strategic thinking.
The problem with most football clubs is lack of patience and succumbing to short term pressures.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Also, I want to say that I find manager changes overrated and ineffectual.

It's like Japanese kabuki, in which a team fires a manager as someone who has failed to deliver results commensurate with expectations, only to turn around and seek salvation among a manager pool that 99.99% consists of managers who have been fired for having failed to deliver results commensurate with expectations.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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View: https://twitter.com/EvertonNewsFeed/status/1483196928150102024?s=20


This has been reported by a few sources.

If there is a better indication of how utterly moronic, shortsighted, and bereft of ideas Everton management can be - not only are they talking about bringing back a manager who got run out of town when the fans staged a sit - in, who never quite managed to get his once-in-a-lifetime Belgium squad to win any silverware, who got relegated when he was in a PL relegation fight (as we are now), who hasn't managed at the club level in six years - but they wanted him to split time with another job.

as if there isn't anyone - anyone - anyone out there who could do the job than someone they'd have to employ part-time.

Here are other names being bandied about:

Wayne Rooney
Kasper Hjulmand
Duncan Ferguson
Slaven Bilic
Christophe Galtier
Graham Potter (has already publicly turned it down)
Lucian Favre
Nuno
Frank Lampard

As many different profiles, experience levels, philosophies, price tags as there are names on the list.

No direction. No plan. No wisdom. No clue.
 

67YAZ

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Dec 1, 2000
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Woah. I mean, I love doing this in FM - taking a club and the USMNT job. But in real life, this seems to have gone the way of the player-manager in terms of good ideas.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Looks like both Rooney and Lampard are being interviewed. @OCST - I know they are “shiny objects” but it doesn’t seem a terrible idea.

Lampard did a good job IMO with the Chelsea kids before the German influx inflicted by the owner.

And Rooney seems to be doing a terrific job with Derby County.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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Looks like both Rooney and Lampard are being interviewed. @OCST - I know they are “shiny objects” but it doesn’t seem a terrible idea.

Lampard did a good job IMO with the Chelsea kids before the German influx inflicted by the owner.

And Rooney seems to be doing a terrific job with Derby County.
Neither would be first choice. I don’t think either would be horrible.

if Dunc can hold down the fort, the thing would be to get a DOF and have him pick the new manager. The club announced a “strategic review” of its football operations several days ago, which is like OJ’s hunt for the real killer. It would be so Everton if they hired a permanent manager without a DOF in place/chance for DOF to put in a manager to implement a certain football style - or more importantly, as a first-order problem, if this is going to be a club that operates with a DOF model provide strategic vision and continuity over successive managerial regimes, or if it will be a model of manager does everything. One would think that the “strategic review” would pre-date and inform the hiring effort; but it will probably be released sometime in the tenure of the manager after the one that next gets fired.
 

Joe D Reid

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BTW, the worst thing is the deafening silence from the club.
As a Newcastle fan I have some experience in these sorts of situations. This particular type of silence means "please stop shouting at us we don't know what to do what would make you stop shouting but also make you not know that you made us do this thing by shouting at us."
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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Reports that Everton reached out to Jose but he’s happy at Roma.
I would sob into my pillow if we hired Jose.

Ken, I'll take "hostile, divisive managers playing cynical, defensive anti-football, who won silverware several years ago but whose best days are behind them and who will just curdle the fanbase, alienate the roster, and turn everything to shit before the inevitable sacking" for $2000, since we've run the rest of the category already.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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It's alternatively a relief and very sad that the targets of our would-be foolishness, and/or their current employers, are saving us from ourselves.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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The 718
View: https://twitter.com/conradjsharp/status/1483570509216460800?s=20


Dunc will have have the fans and players riled up on Saturday. But having Leighton Baines on the touchline will give an even bigger boost. Short of Tim Cahill, I don't think there's a Toffee who is as respected and appreciated by the rank and file fan. He's a quiet guy, not a maniac like Dunc, but Goodison never got to send him off properly - his last game was at the end of the 2019-20 season so the stadium was empty. I'm looking forward to the roar he will get.

As if that won't whip the crowd into enough of a frenzy, there's this: Dunc v. Gerrard:

View: https://twitter.com/RingKilcronan/status/1483464492243640328?s=20


I fully expect us to beat Villa, if Rafa were still managing the toxicity of the Digne situation would have overwhelmed everything and with our anemic 5-5-0 we'd get our asses kicked. But Dunc will hug ballboys, punch the air, and have us playing direct, uncomplicated 442 or 433 with lots of tackling, and the crowd is going to go apeshit.
 

Zomp

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Aug 28, 2006
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If Rooney wants the job I think they'd give it to him but I'd like to see him finish the season out at Derby to see if he can get them to stay up, thats if the FA allows them to exist anymore.

Rooney is my all time favorite athlete. When United lose, I wipe my tears with his youtube highlights. But I would have like to have seen him hone his craft in the Championship or even League One before taking a Premiership job. Unfortunately, I think the allure of the Everton job would be too much for him to pass up.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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If Rooney wants the job I think they'd give it to him but I'd like to see him finish the season out at Derby to see if he can get them to stay up, thats if the FA allows them to exist anymore.

Rooney is my all time favorite athlete. When United lose, I wipe my tears with his youtube highlights. But I would have like to have seen him hone his craft in the Championship or even League One before taking a Premiership job. Unfortunately, I think the allure of the Everton job would be too much for him to pass up.
I think it's too early for Rooney. There's a ton of baggage there re: his Everton history. It wouldn't be an issue if someone with the equivalent pedigree but from United or Palace or Roma were doing his turnaround job at Derby, which is phenomenal.

Rooney, as the native Evertonian, the prodigal son - that's the attraction of the job for everyone, Rooney himself, the club, the fans. It's a double edged sword. It's a LOT of pressure on everyone. It's a little too circus-y for what the club needs now, which is solid, competent, un-flashy coaching to get the club steadied.

I agree that I'd like to see Rooney see it out at Derby. He might be the author of one of the great stories of English footy.

I agree that Rooney, with another year or two under his belt, might be great.

I confess to a bit of a concern about Rooney's personal peccadilloes and his possible substance abuse problem. Getting caught driving drunk at the wheel of a young woman's car in the second month of his 2017 return to Everton helped tank that season, IMO. Everton started strong, Rooney was the natural leader of the team, but his arrest and period of community service was a distraction and undercut his authority. Same situation at DC United - he was evidently happy there and becoming the face of the club, maybe having a long term future there, but then got arrested for public intoxication at the airport and the word on the street is that Mrs. Rooney had had enough and yanked the family out of America.

There's been a whiff of this at Derby too. I hesitate because it's the S*n, but anyway-

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/wayne-rooneys-job-derby-boss-24631401

Wayne Rooney's job as Derby County manager is reportedly 'on a knife edge' after leaked pictures of him asleep at a hotel with women posing alongside him went viral.
He's evidently done a great job of taking the young players under his wing at Derby, like he did in DC. I'd love that. But if he got caught with six beers in his belly and his pee-pee out again, that's going to knock the club back.
 
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fletcherpost

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtK4QAczAN2mt2ow_jlGinQ

The pinned video on Everton's Youtube chanel is 10 minutes of Dunc's first training session. I watched the whole thing. At first i never recognized Baines, but then i remembered he's a big Velvet Underground fan and indie music in general - I think the hair works for him.

There's something oddly comforting and wryly comic seeing a gruff passionate Scotsman getting in aboot it, he's kicking very baw and very vocal, but his energy is really positive and infectuous. Is it enough? I really hope it works out for him but I don't want to see him getting the permanent job. If he has to leave the club in the next couple of years I'd rather it was to manage a lower league club.

I agree with the comment above regarding Rooney. If he can keep Derby County up that would serve him well in terms of his managerial aspirations.

I love Big Dunc. He's so heart on sleeve. It fired me up watching that training session.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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The 718
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtK4QAczAN2mt2ow_jlGinQ

The pinned video on Everton's Youtube chanel is 10 minutes of Dunc's first training session. I watched the whole thing. At first i never recognized Baines, but then i remembered he's a big Velvet Underground fan and indie music in general - I think the hair works for him.

There's something oddly comforting and wryly comic seeing a gruff passionate Scotsman getting in aboot it, he's kicking very baw and very vocal, but his energy is really positive and infectuous. Is it enough? I really hope it works out for him but I don't want to see him getting the permanent job. If he has to leave the club in the next couple of years I'd rather it was to manage a lower league club.

I agree with the comment above regarding Rooney. If he can keep Derby County up that would serve him well in terms of his managerial aspirations.

I love Big Dunc. He's so heart on sleeve. It fired me up watching that training session.
fletch, I agree.

Dunc has never held a full time manager post at any level. His 4 game spell as interim did not show any special tactical nous- it was vanilla 442 for the most part.

But his first game in charge, I knew as soon as the siren went off that we were going to beat Chelsea ( 3-1 it was), despite having been in terrible form. This was the game where Dunc famously picked up a ball boy and spun him around in a bear hug to celebrate a goal. The intensity was off the charts, the crowd was going nuts, we were knocking Chelsea’s guys into the stands. You knew that you weren’t really looking at the clubs long term future but who gave a damn. It’s like the unexpected one night stand that turns out to be the most insane, intense, passionate, unforgettable night of your life, even if (because??) s/he was not suitable as a partner and was likely crazy and maybe even dangerous.

Both the players and the fans desperately need to be reinvigorated, to feel proud to pull on the shirt and fight for the club. He can do that. If he does, and we win, we go into the break with some good feelings, time to steady the ship, and a winnable cup tie (home to Brentford). If we lose, I’m scared, of who Moshiri might panic-buy. The more time that Dunc can give us by getting results, the less pressure to throw stupid money at some knob who will only get us closer to the drop.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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The 718
Plus, Mrs O openly lusts Dunc. When he was named interim, she saw him and asked “WHO’S THAT?” I read his bio, and when I got to how he’d served a 3 month sentence for assaulting another player during a game she said “ I LOVE HIM ALREADY”

then she heard his accent, and we watched the Chelsea game, and she asked me who the boy on the touch line in the orange vest was, and how could she get that job.

I got her a Ferguson jersey from the 98-99 season off eBay. She’s going to wear it to the NYC Everton bar tomorrow when we go for that 7:30 kickoff.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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Like this knob:

View: https://twitter.com/evertonbluearmy/status/1484222992422998025?s=21


fter his retirement, Cannavaro became a member of the coaching staff of Al-Ahli, notably as global ambassador and technical director from 2011 to 2013, and as an assistant coach from 2013 to 2014. In November 2014, he was appointed as head coach of Chinese club Guangzhou Evergrande. On 9 June 2016, he signed a contract with second-tier Chinese club Tianjin Quanjian as manager where he led the team to the league title. He returned to Guangzhou Evergrande in 2017 and was briefly appointed as manager of the China national team in 2019. He left Guangzhou again in September 2021.

If you’re wondering why someone with this resume is getting a sniff at a PL job, is because he is repped by Moshiris buddy, Kia Joorabchian, who seems actually to be running the club.

So, so dysfunctional.
 
Jul 15, 2005
3,217
Chicago
the snarky answer is that someone in his inner circle has been playing too much FIFA and looks at his defensive ratings

certainly hope that Dunc has learned a thing or two from Carlo...and maybe Rafa....
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
22,081
The 718
the snarky answer is that someone in his inner circle has been playing too much FIFA and looks at his defensive ratings

certainly hope that Dunc has learned a thing or two from Carlo...and maybe Rafa....
No, it’s that he’s “represented” by Joorabchian, the middleman and influence peddler who has Moshiris ear.

ugh
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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The 718
Fucked fucked fucked.

Better but not good enough.

More spirited under Dunc but not the kind of energy as his first time around. Moor attempts (15) but only one on frame. Unable to build from the back or through the middle. Reduced to playing hoof it from Pickford and while both DCL and Mina had good opportunities they are both rusty.

Worse, Dunc had some head scratchers. Patterson and Mykolenko, the young fullbacks we bought with the Digne money, weren’t even in the squad. Rafa had stubbornly persisted in a midfield two despite it getting overrun game after game, and it was turnstiles again. Anthony Gordon, by far our best player of late, didn't get a start. When he came on at 55' he was by far the best player on the pitch - I think if he starts we win that game.

And more of the same issues. Villa's goal off a corner, we continue to be porous on set pieces. Off to a slow start again, we didn't kick on until the second half. No vision, no composure, no sense of imposing their will on a game. They did have Villa under heavy bombardment for the last 25 minutes and one of those shots might well have gone in, but it was all endeavor and hope.

While this team has good players, they're not a good team.

The center-back unit was once considered a strength, but it's falling apart: Mina is fearsome when healthy but he never is; Keane has regressed badly, his confidence is shot and he's full of errors; Holgate had a spell as our best player two springs ago but I'd say he's Championship-level now and seems not to care; Godfrey was an absolute beast last season, a candidate for our best player, but he had a bad case of COVID and he's a shell of himself. Jarrad Brathwaite seems promising but is very raw.

Of course, we have no fullbacks now, except the aging, declining, and increasingly petulant Coleman, the two new kids, and Godfrey filling in.

We are sorely lacking in midfield bodies. Doucoure started the season as one of the best box to box mids in the PL but hasn't been the same since his October injury. Gomes is shot. Allan has good skills in the Kante role, but he's too old to cover much ground. Davies is hurt and not that good when healthy. Delph is always, always hurt and a miserable snot when not. Jean-Pierre Gbamin, a very big and nimble man, has been healthy for only a handful of games in his 2 years with the club and has looked awful when he has played. Even if we wanted to play a midfield three we don't have the horses. There is no one in that lot that can create for the strikers.

our bright spot is the winger unit, with Gordon, Gray having a fantastic season, and Townsend, reverting to the mean but still a useful piece. So of course we go out and get another one, El Ghazi, not bad but brought in only because Moshiri's toady wanted him, and other priorities are left unaddressed.

So we need a couple more before the window closes - but there is no one to make those decisions other than Moshiri, his hangers-on, or Chairman Bill Kenwright, the personification of the sentimental Everton "people's club/grand old team" crap but a poor footballing mind. Rafa fired anyone else with a clue and now Rafa's gone.

A new manager could do the shopping, but there's not much time to get someone in place and have them make deals. And if we rush to get someone in, we run the risk of getting yet another doofus who will further drive the club into the ground.

We could go down. You'd like not to think so, but Villa, Leeds, and other sides in our weight class have. The problem is that who's going to make the good calls to keep us up? Dunc could probably get us over the line once he has some time to work with the squad, but who does the player acquisitions for the rest of the window? There is literally no one.

New stadium is coming in two years. The grim joke on Everton Twitter now is that it will come in handy, since we'll have four more home games a season now.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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The 718
Can youze do me a favor: I'm swamped at work, up against deadlines, and have a doctors' appointment right in the middle of the day. I'm turning on my social-media blocker and deleting Twitter from my phone.

If Everton appoint a manager today, can someone send me a PM, which will trigger an email?

Only if there is an appointment. Since I'll be in my office til late, and it's on the 6th floor, I'll be able to jump once I read the CV of whatever zombie we human-traffic from midtable of the fourth-tier Saudi league.
 

fletcherpost

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Can youze do me a favor: I'm swamped at work, up against deadlines, and have a doctors' appointment right in the middle of the day. I'm turning on my social-media blocker and deleting Twitter from my phone.

If Everton appoint a manager today, can someone send me a PM, which will trigger an email?

Only if there is an appointment. Since I'll be in my office til late, and it's on the 6th floor, I'll be able to jump once I read the CV of whatever zombie we human-traffic from midtable of the fourth-tier Saudi league.
If i hear anything i will let you know mate.
 

Rwillh11

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Apr 23, 2010
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Yeah, Everton fans have been angry with the ownership basically as long as I've been a fan (started following during Donovan's first loan spell), but this seems different. Things have been toxic for a few years now, but bringing in Rafa and having him crash and burn has really taken it to a new level. I have no idea if Pereira would be better or worse than Lampard, but at this point if the fans hear Moshiri wants A, then in must be the case that A is terrible and we must have B instead.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
22,081
The 718
Yeah, Everton fans have been angry with the ownership basically as long as I've been a fan (started following during Donovan's first loan spell), but this seems different. Things have been toxic for a few years now, but bringing in Rafa and having him crash and burn has really taken it to a new level. I have no idea if Pereira would be better or worse than Lampard, but at this point if the fans hear Moshiri wants A, then in must be the case that A is terrible and we must have B instead.
It’s not just that.


It's despair over yet another rapid managerial turnover - although it's not just that.
It's realizing that the club has, again, invested in a manager's style of play, and brought in a few players to play that way, only to sack him, leaving a mishmash - although it's not just that.

It's acknowledging that, despite the club having several very good players, its core has delivered mediocre results under every conceivable style of managers, and gotten them all sacked, revealing a lack of leadership, or balls, or giving a damn - although it's not just that.

It's the further realization that the board is inept - although it's not just that.

It's knowing that, since the board is useless, the owner has no guidance, so he has spent money like sailors on shore leave in a whorehouse (HALF A BILLION POUNDS) and only made the club worse- although it's not just that.

It's seeing that the owner loves shiny objects, big Hollywood names, except that any such coming to Everton are already on the downslope of their careers and overpriced and/or looking for a rocking chair, although it's not just that;

It's that no one at the club talks to the fans, leaving them to play Kreminology, although it's not just that;

It's seeing that the owner thus sidelined his director of football, who was hired (and named to the board) due to his track record of identifying low-priced talent on the fringes of Europe and South America, that could play well for the first team and be sold at a profit - the only sustainable model for Everton, since even this free-spending bloke can't match the resources of City or Chelsea - although it's not just that.

It's perceiving that, because of the vacuum of leadership, certain agents, has-beens and hangers-on have been able to exert outsized influence, pouring poison into the owner's ear, pimping investments in terrible players (and managerial candidates), lining their pockets in the process, although it's not just that.

It's knowing that hiring a Liverpool legend like Benitez was bound to alienate many fans, so the balance in the bank of goodwill was bound to be low from the start, but the owner persisted, although it's not just that.

It's being able to see that Benitez' career has been on the downslope, that his tactical sense was obsolete, and that he's a miserable, stubborn prick to boot, although it's not just that.

It's that - as happened under every one of those managers - after a fast start the team's performance nosedived, although it's not just that.

It's that once things started to go bad, Moshiri decided he had to go all-in on Rafa, so he backed him when Rafa fired the director of football and the entire football operation (scouting, medical, the whole bit), he backed him when Rafa ran Digne out of town - but then fired Rafa two days later, without any clue of who to bring in, when it was clear to everyone that Rafa couldn't last. So now we are a fucking train wreck, lurching in every direction and no direction at once, a week into the managerial search and things just getting murkier, the transfer window running out, AND THERE IS NO ONE AT THE CLUB LEFT WITH ANY FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE OR EVEN THE JOB TITLE TO HIRE A MANAGER OR BUY OR SELL PLAYERS.
 

Rwillh11

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Apr 23, 2010
191
It’s not just that.


It's despair over yet another rapid managerial turnover - although it's not just that.
It's realizing that the club has, again, invested in a manager's style of play, and brought in a few players to play that way, only to sack him, leaving a mishmash - although it's not just that.

It's acknowledging that, despite the club having several very good players, its core has delivered mediocre results under every conceivable style of managers, and gotten them all sacked, revealing a lack of leadership, or balls, or giving a damn - although it's not just that.

It's the further realization that the board is inept - although it's not just that.

It's knowing that, since the board is useless, the owner has no guidance, so he has spent money like sailors on shore leave in a whorehouse (HALF A BILLION POUNDS) and only made the club worse- although it's not just that.

It's seeing that the owner loves shiny objects, big Hollywood names, except that any such coming to Everton are already on the downslope of their careers and overpriced and/or looking for a rocking chair, although it's not just that;

It's that no one at the club talks to the fans, leaving them to play Kreminology, although it's not just that;

It's seeing that the owner thus sidelined his director of football, who was hired (and named to the board) due to his track record of identifying low-priced talent on the fringes of Europe and South America, that could play well for the first team and be sold at a profit - the only sustainable model for Everton, since even this free-spending bloke can't match the resources of City or Chelsea - although it's not just that.

It's perceiving that, because of the vacuum of leadership, certain agents, has-beens and hangers-on have been able to exert outsized influence, pouring poison into the owner's ear, pimping investments in terrible players (and managerial candidates), lining their pockets in the process, although it's not just that.

It's knowing that hiring a Liverpool legend like Benitez was bound to alienate many fans, so the balance in the bank of goodwill was bound to be low from the start, but the owner persisted, although it's not just that.

It's being able to see that Benitez' career has been on the downslope, that his tactical sense was obsolete, and that he's a miserable, stubborn prick to boot, although it's not just that.

It's that - as happened under every one of those managers - after a fast start the team's performance nosedived, although it's not just that.

It's that once things started to go bad, Moshiri decided he had to go all-in on Rafa, so he backed him when Rafa fired the director of football and the entire football operation (scouting, medical, the whole bit), he backed him when Rafa ran Digne out of town - but then fired Rafa two days later, without any clue of who to bring in, when it was clear to everyone that Rafa couldn't last. So now we are a fucking train wreck, lurching in every direction and no direction at once, a week into the managerial search and things just getting murkier, the transfer window running out, AND THERE IS NO ONE AT THE CLUB LEFT WITH ANY FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE OR EVEN THE JOB TITLE TO HIRE A MANAGER OR BUY OR SELL PLAYERS.
yes, it's all of that too ;)

It's funny (not haha funny) thinking back to when the big issue was that Bill was being too stubborn/slow in his quest to find a billionaire
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
22,081
The 718
maybe it just forces whoever the manager to start Anthony Gordon
ha

Looking very much like Lampard. Not my first pick but I’m happy with it. Will command respect from the players, evidently has a couple of transfer targets lined up, had the right demeanor and attitude- some quotes to the effect that he’s unfazed thst the club is a basket case.

His Chelsea team leaked goals and they immediately improved under TT, but his tenure there looks a little better in rectors pectoral since TT has cooled off a bit. I’ve said before, and seen elsewhere, that some of the delta was Kepa crapping the bed for Frank and Mendy playing out of his skull for TT.
Everton may still Everton it up of course,