Euro 2020 FINAL: Is it coming home or going to Rome?

BaseballJones

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I think they are a click below Spain, France and Belgium- though they are getting older- maybe Netherlands. Oh forgot Portugal as well. Then there's Argentina and Brazil.

They may build a better team going forward, but it's going to be hard to get as easy brackets as the one they had in 2018 and 2021.
You don't put them a tick behind Italy? England got one goal from a guy who NEVER scores. Then Italy dominated possession, shot attempts, dangerous chances, and took the game from England. Maybe England changed their game with that first goal, or maybe Italy shook off the crazy shock goal and showed they were the better team.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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England has a good start in qualification but one thing about the one year delay in the Euro is that there’s a chance for England to have a hangover in the qualifiers. By talent there should be no contest in their group but Hungary is also off to a decent start and who knows if there is a letdown.

But one thing that is good news, they have a keeper.
 

Nick Kaufman

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You don't put them a tick behind Italy? England got one goal from a guy who NEVER scores. Then Italy dominated possession, shot attempts, dangerous chances, and took the game from England. Maybe England changed their game with that first goal, or maybe Italy shook off the crazy shock goal and showed they were the better team.
And Italy obviously, Italy was the better team. Oh and there's always Germany too.
 

Zomp

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Sterling wasn’t even one of the five to take a pk! Give rashford or Sancho 10 minutes to see if they could do something before the kick a penalty.
 

Nick Kaufman

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The match also looked a bit too big for him from the moment he came on. If I could see that, I don’t know how Southgate couldn’t.

I also hate the fact that he didn’t give Rashford and Sancho five or ten minutes to get their legs rather than coming on at the death. They could easily have come on for Grealish, Saka, or Sterling.
Get then me in on 90thminute and you have an advantage on fresh legs. The field should tilt in your favor and your conservative tactics make sense.

But the way Southgate did it, it felt as if he didn't believe they were better than Italy or he REALLY didn't want to concede another goal and England played to not lose. Maybe he's right, but in my layman's eyes, it doesn't feel right, because i think at some point in a game you should go for it.
 

teddykgb

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Sterling wasn’t even one of the five to take a pk! Give rashford or Sancho 10 minutes to see if they could do something before the kick a penalty.
Sterling is a disaster at pens but has to take one before Saka. Agree completely that you can’t sub on players at 120 unless they’re exceptional Pk takers. Even Stones has a panenka in his history he has to take one before Saka. And it’s Southgate of all people! He knows well the damage and pressure! How can he of all people make this mistake
 

SocrManiac

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The biggest winner was for penalties: the three hesitate/stutter/hoppers missed. Put your damn foot through the ball. You already have every advantage in the world.

Southgate was brutal. Maybe he changed England’s mentality, but when I look at the stack of talent in his side there’s no excuse for his tactics, selections, or subs. The penalty lineup was just the cherry on a particularly shitty sundae.

Italy were the team of the tournament. Mancini didn’t have the talented rosters of France, England, or Belgium but he installed a perfect system for the international game. Flexible, attacking, interchangeable, and decidedly un-Italian in its approach (except against Spain).

The antics against Belgium will absolutely take shine off this for me. It’s difficult to love a side that made such a mockery of the game. Maybe it’s the passage of time, but when I think back to that ‘06 squad it’s almost purely warm and fuzzies. Gattusso was somehow lovable in that Brad Marchand sort of way. Materazzi is the big exception. But Buffon, Cannavaro, Del Piero, Pirlo, Totti… Just incredible.

This group is well positioned, fairly young (outside of central defense) and well managed. Mancini has something here.
 

teddykgb

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England have a bunch of potential 10s but lack a good passing #8, someone like Veratti who can control the tempo of a match with possession.
They’re not playing 433 though. If they are going to play with two holding kids you’d ideally have a better passer there but hardly an 8. They’re setup for 4231 or 352 to bring in a creative player but mostly they opted for an extra defender all tournament
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The biggest winner was for penalties: the three hesitate/stutter/hoppers missed. Put your damn foot through the ball. You already have every advantage in the world.

Southgate was brutal. Maybe he changed England’s mentality, but when I look at the stack of talent in his side there’s no excuse for his tactics, selections, or subs. The penalty lineup was just the cherry on a particularly shitty sundae.

Italy were the team of the tournament. Mancini didn’t have the talented rosters of France, England, or Belgium but he installed a perfect system for the international game. Flexible, attacking, interchangeable, and decidedly un-Italian in its approach (except against Spain).

The antics against Belgium will absolutely take shine off this for me. It’s difficult to love a side that made such a mockery of the game. Maybe it’s the passage of time, but when I think back to that ‘06 squad it’s almost purely warm and fuzzies. Gattusso was somehow lovable in that Brad Marchand sort of way. Materazzi is the big exception. But Buffon, Cannavaro, Del Piero, Pirlo, Totti… Just incredible.

This group is well positioned, fairly young (outside of central defense) and well managed. Mancini has something here.
I thought Chiesa was the most entertaining player of the tournament other than maybe Patrik Schick. He only had two goals but was fantastic. When he went off I really thought it was England’s night because Chiesa was electric in the second half.

Materazzi completely spoils that 06 team for me. Can’t get past it.
 

SocrManiac

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Zomp

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I'd like to think rashford is mentally strong enough to come back. I mean he made the one vs psg and in the World Cup semi.

But who knows. This was on home soil. And he definitely overthought it. Sancho and sakas were at least saved.

Teddy made a good point. In a way you hope Southgate goes and becomes the scapegoat because for a kid like Saka it's gonna be tough to rebound mentally
 

coremiller

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Is Kane now going to start angling for a one-time switch to Italy so he has a chance to win trophies and play for a side with a winning mentality?
 

67YAZ

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The biggest winner was for penalties: the three hesitate/stutter/hoppers missed. Put your damn foot through the ball. You already have every advantage in the world.

Southgate was brutal. Maybe he changed England’s mentality, but when I look at the stack of talent in his side there’s no excuse for his tactics, selections, or subs. The penalty lineup was just the cherry on a particularly shitty sundae.

Italy were the team of the tournament. Mancini didn’t have the talented rosters of France, England, or Belgium but he installed a perfect system for the international game. Flexible, attacking, interchangeable, and decidedly un-Italian in its approach (except against Spain).

The antics against Belgium will absolutely take shine off this for me. It’s difficult to love a side that made such a mockery of the game. Maybe it’s the passage of time, but when I think back to that ‘06 squad it’s almost purely warm and fuzzies. Gattusso was somehow lovable in that Brad Marchand sort of way. Materazzi is the big exception. But Buffon, Cannavaro, Del Piero, Pirlo, Totti… Just incredible.

This group is well positioned, fairly young (outside of central defense) and well managed. Mancini has something here.
Mancini has another job at a super club waiting for him whenever he decides to rejoin the club ranks.

I said this before the tournament started and it remains true - James Ward-Prowse needs to be on the tournament teams because his two world class skills - free kicks and PKs - play an outsized role in these things. He would have replaced one of the teenagers on the first 5 tonight and absolutely drilled his shot home.

It will be fascinating to see if Italy can keep up the momentum for 18 months and make a deep run into the World Cup. I agree, they are well set up tournament play. Can they stay healthy and focused, especially in defense where they are most thin these days?

For their part, England is still a team on the rise and 2022 might be perfectly timed for them. But Southgate really needs to improve his in-match adjustments. His best bet might be to use the historic opportunity this England squad now has and enticing a top assistant manager to sign on for 18 months -someone with tactical nous and a keen eye tinkering towards results.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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Those three kicks that England missed were....really bad right? I Mean....like the kind of bad that the players certainly deserve some of the blame here?
The first miss absolutely the player deserves blame; he seemed to outfox himself with the hesitation run-up, succeeded in getting a wide open side to shoot into, but screwed up the execution.

The other two weren't perfect, but they weren't really bad. They were on frame and to a side. The risk of hitting it lower is that if the goalie reads it / guesses right, he can save it (as happened here). The risk of hitting it higher is that you could miss the frame entirely (e.g. Baggio).
 

McBride11

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[QUOTE="DennyDoyle'sBoil, post: 4500638, member: 48839"
Darke said that it’s the only father son pair to have scored goals in the European championship.

It’s going to be interesting when this Chiesa has a son who plays for Italy with a 61 year old Chiellini.
[/QUOTE]

This is funny. I have a good friend who moved from Scotland in 7th grade. Obviously he hated England today. But we had a question if Chiellini was on the 2006 squad. Fit right in next to Cannavaro. But per the Google was on the youth winning teams not the WC winning team.
 

teddykgb

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The first miss absolutely the player deserves blame; he seemed to outfox himself with the hesitation run-up, succeeded in getting a wide open side to shoot into, but screwed up the execution.

The other two weren't perfect, but they weren't really bad. They were on frame and to a side. The risk of hitting it lower is that if the goalie reads it / guesses right, he can save it (as happened here). The risk of hitting it higher is that you could miss the frame entirely (e.g. Baggio).
Disagree. Rashfords pen is fine — an acceptable miss as he sends the keeper the wrong way. It’s the most tragic miss because it turned momentum but it is simply like that sometimes. The last two are poorly taken by professional standards because they lack power. Kane’s is an example of how you take that pen correctly— driven and into the corner where the keeper simply can’t get there. Both Sancho and Saka were understandably nervous and they hit it a little too high and a little too soft. As I said earlier, with the new rules on enforcing the keeper on the line a good Pk can simply be buried with pace into a corner and there’s not much a keeper can do about it

Edit: @Zomp yes I said two because I would presume Rashford will be fine. Sancho just made a big move and that’s a hell of an introduction. Saka has it the worst with being the more dramatic miss. Both players could earnestly suffer
 

McBride11

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Apropos of nothing. What I can never fathom is these players missing a PK. I was a solid CB in HS ball in Mass and didn't play college. But ya know end of practice we would line up and take PKs. I, and most of team, could just curl it into right (looking at goal) corner. Clearly the 'pressure moment' is different, but I don't get why they all just don't curl it into lower corner. You hit the side netting, keeper isn't saving it.

Of course I stopped playing full games 2 years ago - being 36 then and chasing 25yo around for 90 min led to a lot of limping around the hospital the next few days. So what do I know
 

Mr. Wednesday

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... I don't get why they all just don't curl it into lower corner. You hit the side netting, keeper isn't saving it.
These keepers are good enough that if they're moving early and going the right way, they will get to that shot, I think the first one Pickford saved is a good example. If you want a shot they can't save, you have to elevate it (see e.g. Kane's shot, or Pulisic's from the C'CAF Nations League final).
 

mikeford

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Saka has literally never taken a penalty at the senior level for club or country. As far as I can tell he's got 3 at the youth level, scoring 2 and missing 1.

The idea that he's stepping up to take your FINAL PENALTY is insanity.
 

teddykgb

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The Gray Eagle

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Saka has literally never taken a penalty at the senior level for club or country. As far as I can tell he's got 3 at the youth level, scoring 2 and missing 1.

The idea that he's stepping up to take your FINAL PENALTY is insanity.
And this choice was made by a guy who will hear about missing a penalty for England for the rest of his life. How could he do this to a 19-year-old? You don't put him 5th, period. That's just garbage.

Beaten by Teddy.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Saka has literally never taken a penalty at the senior level for club or country. As far as I can tell he's got 3 at the youth level, scoring 2 and missing 1.

The idea that he's stepping up to take your FINAL PENALTY is insanity.
Same thing happened in 1998 when England lost to Argentina (the game where a young David Beckham got the red card shortly before half time). David Batty missed the fifth kick to lose the match, even though he had never taken a penalty before. Batty was 29 years old, at least.

Southgate played in that game!
 

McBride11

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These keepers are good enough that if they're moving early and going the right way, they will get to that shot, I think the first one Pickford saved is a good example. If you want a shot they can't save, you have to elevate it (see e.g. Kane's shot, or Pulisic's from the C'CAF Nations League final).
The Pickford save on Jorginho? It was a right foot to the left corner that was half way between post and mid point. Not the corner spin of right to right.That was not a good pk.
Pickford did well but that was nothing special for an international keeper

of course adding elevation to corner curl
Makes it more unstoppable , but that allows
More mis hits.

i think these guys over think it
 

teddykgb

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Guardian’s grades for the final.

Henderson, Salah, Sancho, and Rashford got 6s. Uh…
Imo Pickford can’t get a 9 because of his kicking. He made some phenomenal saves and was good in the PKs but England’s insistence on taking every GK long led to long spells of Italy possession. One of the ways England could have maybe blunted the Italian attack was to play it out from the back and possess the ball a bit. They just kept hoofing it and it just kept coming back
 
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Jimy Hendrix

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Imo Pickford can’t get a 9 because of his kicking. He made some phenomenal saves and was good in the PKs but England’s insistence on taking every GK long led to long spells of Italy possession. One of the ways Wngland could have maybe blunted the Italian attack was to ply it out from the back and possess the ball a bit. They just kept holding it and it just kept coming back
I don’t know what about Kane being devastating dropping into the spaces early led them to decide that booting it up top to his head was the way to go. He can win those decently and got a few on for decent breaks, but they were promising so much more earlier.
 

Ale Xander

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My dad watching this from heaven is not surprised. His favorite word was probably “hooligan”
 

ilol@u

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That video title is fake. We need to do more research before spreading false information.

The above video (not that it makes it better), is ticket holders attacking those who breached security and entered without tickets. Has nothing to do with Italian fans.
 

scott bankheadcase

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That video title is fake. We need to do more research before spreading false information.

The above video (not that it makes it better), is ticket holders attacking those who breached security and entered without tickets. Has nothing to do with Italian fans.
yes it’s actually English on English.
 

blueline

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Saka sub was the worst move Southgate made all tournament. A 19yr old Arsenal bench player is not the player to bring on with the bench that he had to work with. He's Walcott 2.0. Never should have been on the squad nevermind taking a fucking penalty. That's on the coach not him. He's going to hear about that miss for the rest of his career in England.
What a dumb post. Saka isn't a bench player at Arsenal, is a completely different player than Walcott, and was one of England's better players at the tournament. Shouldn't have been taking the 5th penalty, but had every right to be there.