Euro 2020, Baku to Bilbao to Budapest. Anyone going?

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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There don't seem to be any Euro 2020 threads yet, even though qualification is well under way.

I assume eventually there will be threads about the competition. I'm thinking about trying to go and wondering whether it makes sense for a ticket or travel thread. The first ticket sale phase is underway -- presumably they are trying to get some cash in before the groups are announced to avoid having trouble selling some of the lesser matches in faraway places like Baku. Ticket applications close July 12.
 

Catcher Block

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My wife and I are planning on being in London for Cards-Cubs next summer, which will be the same time as opening group games in London and Amsterdam. Still undecided on whether baseball or soccer will be the tougher ticket.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The ticket situation is going to be interesting in the host cites where it looks likely that the host will qualify. I think London game 1 will be a tough ticket since they have committed to putting host teams in their home park. But we'll see. It looks as though UEFA is committed to trying to sell a large number of tickets before the draw and so now might be the time to apply if you want to go.
 

swiftaw

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Host counties that qualify will automatically be placed in the groups in which they play at home, so you can kind of guess which countries that would apply to. So, for example, England and Scotland are guaranteed to be in Group D if they qualify.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Host counties that qualify will automatically be placed in the groups in which they play at home, so you can kind of guess which countries that would apply to. So, for example, England and Scotland are guaranteed to be in Group D if they qualify.
Right. And also, England is likely to be in the 1 pot if it qualifies and so it's very likely that they will get the D1 v. D2 game, which would be Wembley. I think the only thing that could foul up England getting the first and second Wembley games if they qualify would be if Scotland were to qualify and get drawn as D2 and then a draw had to be held to decide where the D1 v. D2 game would be held, since you can't guarantee the hosts 2 games in their city if they both qualify in the group. If I'm understanding the draw rules it's theoretically possible that D1 v. D2 could end up in Hampden, but very unlikely.

So, as a result, I think there will be competition for the first Wembley game but relatively less competition for the third Wembley game. Or maybe most fans haven't thought it through that much yet. I bet the touts have though and so there is probably some strategy involved in picking tickets to apply for in the group stages.
 

swiftaw

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Right. And also, England is likely to be in the 1 pot if it qualifies and so it's very likely that they will get the D1 v. D2 game, which would be Wembley. I think the only thing that could foul up England getting the first and second Wembley games if they qualify would be if Scotland were to qualify and get drawn as D2 and then a draw had to be held to decide where the D1 v. D2 game would be held, since you can't guarantee the hosts 2 games in their city if they both qualify in the group. If I'm understanding the draw rules it's theoretically possible that D1 v. D2 could end up in Hampden, but very unlikely.

So, as a result, I think there will be competition for the first Wembley game but relatively less competition for the third Wembley game. Or maybe most fans haven't thought it through that much yet. I bet the touts have though and so there is probably some strategy involved in picking tickets to apply for in the group stages.
Aren’t positions within a group drawn at random? Or is that just positions 2, 3, and 4.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Aren’t positions within a group drawn at random? Or is that just positions 2, 3, and 4.
It's not 100 percent clear. I think for Euro 2016 that was how it was except for France, which they have to give the A1 spot to, in order to insure that the opening game would feature the hosts. With multiple hosts, it's kind of unclear. If Italy qualify, I can't imagine that they would open the tournament without Italy playing the opening night game in Rome, so they'd have to be given A1. But maybe I'm wrong about that? Not sure. You might be right. I guess that means that if you are an England fan you'd have to apply for all three Wembley group matches to be assured of seeing the team play twice.

Edit: It looks as though for the World cup the first pot, which was Russia and the top 7 ranked teams, all got the "1" position in their groups and then the other three teams were selected at random for their place in the group.
 
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DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Can we use this thread to talk about the qualifying matches as well? Because Germany-Netherlands was a real humdinger tonight - finished 4-2 to the Dutch in Germany, and Germany's second goal was penalty after a pretty bogus handball decision.
We had a great Euro qualification thread last time. Not as much interest this time yet but in part until the last match day things were kind of boring.
 

OCST

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I love the big tournaments - WC, Euro, Copa, AFCON - but it's getting too diluted. Too much international play. I'm less excited for it than I should be. Of course I'll end up cutting work to watch Liechtenstein - Uzbekistan or some crap when it gets around to it.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Is there a phase 2? I’m looking for tickets to the Munich games.
I believe the next way for general public to get tickets will be the resale platform though there is some gossip there will be an unofficial first come first serve after the nation team sales.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The final qualification matchdays are this week and early next during this international break. This will decide 20 of the 24 teams, with the remaining 4 to be decided by virtue of the complicated league of nations system/playoff. Because the groups are uneven -- some have 5 teams and some have 6 -- not every team will play two games during this break.

There isn't a ton of drama, but I guess here are the things to look out for.

Group A -- England are through, even though not mathematically so. Kosovo actually have a chance to grab the second spot over Czech Republic, but it's very unlikely. They won in Pristina and now the return match is set for Thursday in Czech Republic (in Pizen not Prague, interestingly, which should be more intimate and a bit harder for Kosovo to travel). Even if Kosovo wins, they would also need a result against England (in Kosovo with England likely already qualified) or hope that Bulgaria can get a result against Chech Republic on the final matchday.

Group B -- Ukraine are through. Serbia have a theoretical chance, but Portugal has the second place all but locked up.

Group C -- Norther Ireland gave it a good run, but it looks as though Netherlands and Germany are through, with both getting to host 3 group games at home in the finals.

Group D -- An exciting group. Ireland are leading the group, but Denmark and Sweden each have a game in hand. Denmark look to have the inside track. Both Denmark and Ireland would secure home field advantage for the group stages if they advance out of the group.

Group E -- It is effectively a battle between Hungary and Slovakia for the second spot after Croatia. Slovakia have a game in hand, but are a point behind, and must play one of their two remaining games away to Croatia, while Hungary get Wales in Cardiff. If Hungary qualify, they will get to play 3 games in the group in Budapest.

Group F -- Spain are through. Sweden and Romania are contending for the second spot. They play each other on the 15th in Romania. Sweden are assured of the playoff if they don't qualify out of the group.

Group G -- Poland and Austria.

Group H -- Iceland got a tough group and need to win in Instanbul to have a chance to keep Turkey out. France should cruise though, with a win against either of two minnows. It's hard to figure out the playoffs, but Iceland may be on the outside looking in if they don't beat Turkey.

Group I -- Not much mystery in this group. Belgium and Russia are through. Russia will get three group games in the finals in St. Petersburg.

Group J -- Italy are through. Despite destroying Finland during the last matchday, Bosnia and Herzegovina have had a couple of headscratchers and Finland have the second spot all but locked up.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Turkey 0-0 Iceland

So, Turkey are through and Iceland would only go through by winning the playoff out of the difficult League A. It would be a bummer not to have Iceland participate given how they travel and what a great story they have been in the last few years.

The playoff is hard to figure out but I think it's in their interest for Switzerland to overtake Ireland in their group so that Iceland doesn't need to beat Switzerland in the playoff.
 

tmracht

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Definitely did not see a top of the group finish for Turkey at the start of the qualification, but here we are, can't wait to see what my dad has to say.
 

Royal Reader

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England absolutely destroying Montenegro. Knew they'd gone downhill, wasn't expecting Andorra in disguise.
 

tmracht

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Yeah 5 in 37 isn't the best look for Montenegro but Kane looks kind of invested? That's a really good lineup when they are clicking.
 

Kliq

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Yeah 5 in 37 isn't the best look for Montenegro but Kane looks kind of invested? That's a really good lineup when they are clicking.
It's almost like he is really good when he isn't playing with Ben Davies and Serge Aurier as his fullbacks.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Kosovo with a goal! They are still a long way from qualification but if they hold on here they would need a result home to England to advance and send Czech Republic scrambling for a playoff spot.

They are technically still in it even if Czech Republic get a draw but it becomes much more difficult.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Kosovo with a goal! They are still a long way from qualification but if they hold on here they would need a result home to England to advance and send Czech Republic scrambling for a playoff spot.

They are technically still in it even if Czech Republic get a draw but it becomes much more difficult.
Gave up two in an 8 minute span, couldn’t hold on.

Absolutely remarkable how close they’ve come to qualifying, given they didn’t even have a team until 5 years ago.
And that was sometime Wednesday legend Adthe “Big Dave” Nuihu with the goal for Kosovo.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Gave up two in an 8 minute span, couldn’t hold on.

Absolutely remarkable how close they’ve come to qualifying, given they didn’t even have a team until 5 years ago.
And that was sometime Wednesday legend Adthe “Big Dave” Nuihu with the goal for Kosovo.
Deserved for the Czechs. They had the most chances, including in the second half, but it was a more entertaining game than I expected.

Kosovo are qualified for the playoff, though, in the minnows group and it wouldn't be a surprise to see them get through it.

The playoff is starting to really take shape.

In the groups, Groups D (Ireland/Denmark/Switzerland), E (Wales/Hungary/Slovakia) and F (Romania v. Sweden) are the most compelling now. The standings can be a bit deceiving in the 5 team groups because of the games in hand but Wales actually could sneak in even though currently in fourth. Wales/Hungary is shaping up to be a big game on the last matchday, though Slovakia could still have a say if they can find a way to beat Croatia away.
 
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Kliq

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If Sweden beat Romania they are through to the Final. If Romania win, they go up over Sweden by two points, but have Spain in their final game while Sweden plays Faroe Islands.

Gheorge Hagi’s kid plays for Romania. Lots of Romanian’s smoking cigarettes in the stadium.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Ireland come one goal short of qualifying through the group and Denmark go through instead and will host two or three group games. Ireland are in the playoffs.

Denmark are the seventh host to qualify, but since Russia also qualified a draw will determine whether the Russia/Denmark match is played in St. Petersburg or Copenhagen.

The "draw" on 11/30 is shaping up to be a bit of non event since many of the games are already penciled in with the seeding and hosting rules. With Ireland, that now makes three potential hots that will be in the playoffs and so I don't quite understand how that is going to work in terms of the draw, since the playoffs are in March. Hungary could actually be a fourth.

I really hate the home team hosting rules. The whole thing feels almost orchestrated for ticket sales. Every host but Azerbaijan has either qualified directly or can still qualify via the playoffs.

Edit: 19 of the 20 qualifiers are set. The last spot will go to Slovakia, Wales or Hungary. Wales plays Hungary in Cardiff tomorrow. if there is a winner, that team will get the last space. If they draw, Slovakia will get the last spot, unless they somehow fail to beat Azerbaijan in Trnava.
 
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DennyDoyle'sBoil

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After a lackluster performance in the early matchdays and significant offensive futility, Wales take all 6 points on the last two match days, get the final of the 20 spots, and avenge their earlier defeat to Hungary. Aaron Ramsey plays in his first match (I believe) in qualification and looks like anything but a guy who hasn't played in forever -- arguably the man of the match.

This also means the 16 playoff teams, from which the last four qualifiers will come, now are set in the most complicated tournament of all time. But while the 16 teams are known, the matchups for the playoffs won’t be set until a draw on Friday. There are four groups (“paths”) of four teams each. One team from each group advances to the finals through a head to head four team bracket playoff in March 2020. Some teams are set in a path, and others will need to be drawn. The draw happens in reverse order, from League D to A. Path D is set. Path C is mostly set. Paths B and A will be largely determined by draw. Once the four teams are set in a "path," the seeding for the playoff is determined by ranking.

Path D: Georgia, North Macedonia, Kosovo and Belarus.

Path C: Scotland, Norway, Serbia and one of Bulgaria, Israel, Hungary or Romania, to be determined by draw. The three not drawn will move to path B.

Path B: Bosnia and Herzegovina is locked into the top spot. The other three will be drawn from a pot of the three that moved up from Path C, plus Slovakia, Ireland, and Northern Ireland. (So, there’s a good chance of Ireland and Northern Ireland being in the same group. If they both get drawn into path B, they likely would be 2 and 3 in the group and so end up playing the first group semi in Dublin. if they move up to path A, they probably would not face each other until the final if they both advance. I think they played a friendly last year, but it has been a while since they played each other in competition.) The three that don’t get drawn into Path B move up to Path A.

Path A: Iceland and three not drawn into Path B.

Edit: Just read, actually, that UEFA (of course they have) have reserved the right to manipulate the playoff draw to give as many host teams -- so, Hungary, Ireland, Scotland, and Romania -- a favorable chance to qualify. such bullshit. But the "draw" may not be a simple draw.
 
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CodPiece XL

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Edit: Just read, actually, that UEFA (of course they have) have reserved the right to manipulate the playoff draw to give as many host teams -- so, Hungary, Ireland, Scotland, and Romania -- a favorable chance to qualify. such bullshit. But the "draw" may not be a simple draw.
At this point in my life I'll take whatever bone UEFA will throw Scotland, I need an excuse to travel to the finals.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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At this point in my life I'll take whatever bone UEFA will throw Scotland, I need an excuse to travel to the finals.
I actually think Scotland could be a beneficiary. With four host teams in the playoffs, UEFA have a problem. Since a host gets to play in its home stadium, it will be hard to conduct the draw for the finals later this month unless you have one host in each of the four playoff brackets. For example, if Ireland and Hungary both are in path B, where do you put the path B winner in the finals draw? If you put it in the Budapest group and Ireland win the playoff, Ireland doesn't get its home games.

There may be another way out of the pickle, but I think the only way they can deal with it is to put one host in each playoff group. That means they would have to pluck one of the four minnows in path D out and put them in path C and replace them with a host. This would be grossly unfair. The four teams that won their league D groups, under the terms of the competition, have earned the right not to be bumped up into a higher group. But I think that's the way they are going to have to do it, unless they actually do the right thing and decide that even a host qualifies through the playoffs they may not get home field advantage.

Anyway, if all that plays out, it could mean that Romania or Hungary move to Path D and Belarus moves to Path C in the fourth spot, which gives Scotland an easier semifinal.
 

CodPiece XL

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I actually think Scotland could be a beneficiary. With four host teams in the playoffs, UEFA have a problem. Since a host gets to play in its home stadium, it will be hard to conduct the draw for the finals later this month unless you have one host in each of the four playoff brackets. For example, if Ireland and Hungary both are in path B, where do you put the path B winner in the finals draw? If you put it in the Budapest group and Ireland win the playoff, Ireland doesn't get its home games.

There may be another way out of the pickle, but I think the only way they can deal with it is to put one host in each playoff group. That means they would have to pluck one of the four minnows in path D out and put them in path C and replace them with a host. This would be grossly unfair. The four teams that won their league D groups, under the terms of the competition, have earned the right not to be bumped up into a higher group. But I think that's the way they are going to have to do it, unless they actually do the right thing and decide that even a host qualifies through the playoffs they may not get home field advantage.

Anyway, if all that plays out, it could mean that Romania or Hungary move to Path D and Belarus moves to Path C in the fourth spot, which gives Scotland an easier semifinal.

I was reading some of the permutations about 3 weeks ago and it gave me a headache. What happened to the old days when a draw was just a draw.....that's one thing the FA cup has going for it. How's my plate by the way?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I was reading some of the permutations about 3 weeks ago and it gave me a headache. What happened to the old days when a draw was just a draw.....that's one thing the FA cup has going for it. How's my plate by the way?
The bending over backwards to give home teams preferences is kind of ruining the whole idea of this multi-city tournament. I think part of it is that the group games already have a bit less significance than in prior years because several third place teams make it. Then you put some of them in Budapest and Bucharest and I think UEFA is worried that they are going to struggle to sell tickets if Hungary or Romania don't get to play in those games. Nothing beats the FA system -- go where you're told.

The plate is holding up excellently. I got a honk from a guy in a Land Rover yesterday. Sometimes I forget and think my tail light is out.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Looks like they are not going to go overboard with the home team protection and they are going to put up with having two potential Euro 2020 hosts in the same playoff bracket. Scotland's home opponent will be selected on Tuesday from a group of Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania and Israel. The other three will go into Path A with Iceland. This actually works out pretty nicely for Iceland -- they could have had a higher ranked team (like Ireland) put in their group but instead it looks as though UEFA will go for simplicity.

This means there will still be some uncertainty even after the finals draw next week about who goes where, because at least one playoff group will have two potential hosts and so they won't be able to put that path's winner into a group yet. Even though I'm going to have to get up early to watch the finals draw on 11/30, it seems like it's going to be must see tv, if for nothing else than listening to them try to explain it all in reasonable terms.

https://www.uefa.com/european-qualifiers/news/0254-0d40ffe20b23-6cc12880102c-1000--play-off-draw-friday/
 

CodPiece XL

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The bending over backwards to give home teams preferences is kind of ruining the whole idea of this multi-city tournament. I think part of it is that the group games already have a bit less significance than in prior years because several third place teams make it. Then you put some of them in Budapest and Bucharest and I think UEFA is worried that they are going to struggle to sell tickets if Hungary or Romania don't get to play in those games. Nothing beats the FA system -- go where you're told.

The plate is holding up excellently. I got a honk from a guy in a Land Rover yesterday. Sometimes I forget and think my tail light is out.
In fairness, he was driving a Land Rover, he was probably trying to grab your attention to get a tow to the nearest Sun Devil.

So it looks like the playoff draw is tomorrow? The semi finals are on March 26 and final on March 31. Meanwhile, the actual draw is on Nov 30, but 4 nations won't be known until next spring. Is this right?

Edit: looks like draw is on friday.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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In fairness, he was driving a Land Rover, he was probably trying to grab your attention to get a tow to the nearest Sun Devil.

So it looks like the playoff draw is tomorrow? The semi finals are on March 26 and final on March 31. Meanwhile, the actual draw is on Nov 30, but 4 nations won't be known until next spring. Is this right?

Edit: looks like draw is on friday.
Yep -- you have it right. The way they are planning to do the draw on 11/30, they will put each path winner in pot 4, and it will made subject to the draw/placement rules.

For Scotland, this is relatively straightforward. Their opponent will be drawn on Friday and they will host that team in Glasgow in March in the semi final. The other thing that will be drawn on Friday is which semi-final winner will host the playoff final. So, Scotland will know on Friday whether, if they win the playoff semi final, they would have to play the other semi final winner at Hampden or on the road. If Scotland win the playoff, they will play in Group D and host two games at Hampden and have to play England at Wembley.

The complication for the draw on 11/30 is the result of a couple of factors -- first is having to keep a spot open in four different groups because it won't be known whether any of the four possible hosts might qualify out of the playoff. This could be relatively simple -- you could just put the path winner for each path into the city where it should go if the host wins the group. The problem there is that there are going to be two hosts in one playoff group. They could do a simple either/or and swap out the path D winner if they have to to get a host in its home group. But there's a potential problem there too that I can't quite figure out -- Kosovo can't be placed in certain groups for political reasons so there may be an issue and some stuff may need to get moved around after the playoff if Kosovo advance.

Edit -- good point about the Land Rover guy.
 
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fletcherpost

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This is all excellent posting, but let’s not lose track of the fact that this process is the stupidest shit imaginable.
I know. I mean what was the fucking point?

That said i might break with a life long tradition and suffer the agony of watching Scotland play at Hampden. We've got a decent midfield, and we might have a striker by the time these matches come around.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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This is all excellent posting, but let’s not lose track of the fact that this process is the stupidest shit imaginable.
It has to be about money somehow. Otherwise, there's no way anyone thought all this would be a good idea. You need an advanced degree to figure it out.

There's no way I'm going to miss the draw on 11/30. They are going to need 45 minutes just to explain the rules.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I know. I mean what was the fucking point?

That said i might break with a life long tradition and suffer the agony of watching Scotland play at Hampden. We've got a decent midfield, and we might have a striker by the time these matches come around.
I've never been a huge Fletcher guy, but his form with Wednesday is the best it's ever been. His hold up play is solid as always, and he's banged in a few goals already this year. I think he'd really be a good addition to the squad.
 

fletcherpost

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I've never been a huge Fletcher guy, but his form with Wednesday is the best it's ever been. His hold up play is solid as always, and he's banged in a few goals already this year. I think he'd really be a good addition to the squad.
I retired from international football a while back. I'm way down the pecking order. Still got an eye for goal, but lost yard or two of pace.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I retired from international football a while back. I'm way down the pecking order. Still got an eye for goal, but lost yard or two of pace.
I got the feeling the retirement was because Strachan wasn't ever going to pick him (in his defense, Fletcher was oft injured).

But I'm telling you- the man never really had pace and his current form is top notch. Not saying he's going to bang a bunch in, but he'd be a useful part. But I suppose the retirement thing falls in line with the rest of those guys who can't be bothered...
 

Dummy Hoy

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I retired from international football a while back. I'm way down the pecking order. Still got an eye for goal, but lost yard or two of pace.
After three game of banging the woodwork, Fletch is on the board again today at Charlton. Could have had two but for a great stop.
I’d rather he rest during International breaks, but a triumphant return to help put the Scots back in Europe would be delightful.

Edit: And now a Pen. I know it’s a pipe dream, but lord knows Scotland need the help
 
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fletcherpost

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After three game of banging the woodwork, Fletch is on the board again today at Charlton. Could have had two but for a great stop.
I’d rather he rest during International breaks, but a triumphant return to help put the Scots back in Europe would be delightful.

Edit: And now a Pen. I know it’s a pipe dream, but lord knows Scotland need the help
No doubt he's a proven finisher. Scotland are light in attack, but Leigh Griffiths is back - not 100% match fit of course, but I think I'd put him ahead of Fletcher. I don't mind Fletcher making the squad. But you watch him on the regular so what do you think his strengths are?
 

Dummy Hoy

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No doubt he's a proven finisher. Scotland are light in attack, but Leigh Griffiths is back - not 100% match fit of course, but I think I'd put him ahead of Fletcher. I don't mind Fletcher making the squad. But you watch him on the regular so what do you think his strengths are?
His hold up play, his heading, and his movement off the ball. He's been shooting well too this year. I think International teams need to do a better job of recognizing form not just league. Or finding guys that fit well with what you're trying to do.

I'd put a healthy Griffiths ahead too, but I do think Fletch could do a job. It's irrelevant though given his 'retirement.'
 

ifmanis5

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We have an official Group Of Death and it's epic aF:

Group A: Italy, Switzerland, Turkey, Wales

Group B: Belgium, Russia, Denmark, Finland

Group C: Ukraine, Netherlands, Austria, Play-off Winner D (Georgia, Belarus, North Macedonia or Kosovo)

Group D: England, Croatia, Czech Republic, Play-off Winner C (Norway, Serbia, Scotland or Israel)

Group E: Spain, Poland, Sweden, Play-off Winner B (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Northern Ireland, Slovakia or Republic of Ireland)

Group F:
Germany, France, Portugal, Play-off Winner A (Bulgaria, Hungary, Iceland or Romania)
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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There is another public on sale starting tomorrow. It is a lottery not first come first served so you have two weeks.