ESPN ranks the Red Sox farm system #1

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,278
Here is the part that is not behind the insider paywall
1. Boston Red Sox
January rank: 5
Number of top-50 prospects: 5

Top prospects: Rafael Devers, 3B (ranked 8th in top 50); Yoan Moncada, 2B (11); Manuel Margot, CF (14); Henry Owens, LHP (37); Javier Guerra, SS (48)

The Red Sox have as much potential ceiling -- in terms of players who have at least a fighting chance to become well-above-average regulars or more -- as any organization in baseball, as well as tremendous depth in both position players and pitchers. This sets them up well to make a trade for some major league impact now or this winter.

The top three players in their system are all international signings who have shown huge early promise, as has Guerra and their main signing from July 2, 2014, right-hander Anderson Espinoza, who is already throwing well at age 17 in the Gulf Coast League. They also added, via this year's draft, Golden Spikes Award winner Andrew Benintendi, a power-hitting center fielder with above-average speed who's off to a great start in short-season ball, while fast-rising first baseman Sam Travis (former teammate of Cubs rookie Kyle Schwarber at Indiana) already has hit his way to Double-A. And they still have players like third baseman Garin Cecchini, shortstop Deven Marrero and center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr., who would be on the major league rosters of many other MLB teams but are completely blocked in Boston.
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/insider/post?id=4112
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,105
Just imagine, if things had gone better in Boston, Eduardo Rodriguez and Blake Swihart would still be part of the system.  Figure E-Rod would be top 25 and Swihart top 10?  So they are forced to rush two elite prospects and what remains is still the best system?  This from a system that has already produced Betts and Bogaerts the past two years.  I said this else where, but the farm system is the best (and perhaps only) argument for the status quo.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
10,961
I'm really hoping they ride this out and keep the fruits of their labor.  If that means punting in 2016 I'm fine.  They could have a powerhouse of a team as early as 2017 and probably no later than 2018 with the likes of X, Betts, Swihart/Vasquez, Moncada, Devers, Margot all contributing and Benitendi not far behind.
 
Time to realize the current window has closed but they are about to open up window of about 10yrs so long as they don't make any panic trades in an attempt to appease the masses.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,567
moondog80 said:
Just imagine, if things had gone better in Boston, Eduardo Rodriguez and Blake Swihart would still be part of the system.  Figure E-Rod would be top 25 and Swihart top 10?  So they are forced to rush two elite prospects and what remains is still the best system?  This from a system that has already produced Betts and Bogaerts the past two years.  I said this else where, but the farm system is the best (and perhaps only) argument for the status quo.
Replace A Baird with A Waters, and maybe we can implement the farm to table approach. 
 
I'm still surprised that Espinoza, and Benintendi would allow them to go from 5 all the way to 1 though. 
 
Regardless, "setting them up" isn't good enough, if the fruits of their scouting labor (and Henry's pocketbook) don't develop into fresh Major League squeezed success . 
 

Detts

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
5,165
Greenville, SC
Ale Xander said:
Replace A Baird with A Waters, and maybe we can implement the farm to table approach. 
 
I'm still surprised that Espinoza, and Benintendi would allow them to go from 5 all the way to 1 though. 
 
Regardless, "setting them up" isn't good enough, if the fruits of their scouting labor (and Henry's pocketbook) don't develop into fresh Major League squeezed success . 
 
You underestimate Espinoza.  Scouts are saying now that he would have gone number one last year if he had been in the draft.  He is also the only prospect listed with a top end range of 8 on SoxProspects.  I don't think I have ever seen an 8.  
 
But I would suggest it's not just the new guys...it's the fact that the top guys are PERFORMING in the minors.  It's a combination of both.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
Keith Law chats at 1 p.m. Eastern today about his rankings, and other topics
 

Hank Scorpio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2013
6,923
Salem, NH
Ale Xander said:
 
I'm still surprised that Espinoza, and Benintendi would allow them to go from 5 all the way to 1 though. 
 
 
I think Moncada is factored here too. He wasn't wrapped up until sometime in spring training, if I recall.
 
Edit, in response to Detts. Yeah, I've never seen an "8" ceiling either on SoxProspects. Certainly intriguing. I know Bogaerts and I think Betts were both "7" players. I would be interested to know where Pedroia, Rizzo and (going back a lot further) Hanley, Lester, and even Nomar ranked (even if Nomar predates SoxProspects)...
 
What current young players outside of the Red Sox would garner an "8" as they were coming out of the minors? Trout, Harper, probably Bryant and Strausburg? What about guys like Machado, Lindor and Correa?
 

kieckeredinthehead

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
8,635
Ale Xander said:
Replace A Baird with A Waters, and maybe we can implement the farm to table approach. 
 
I'm still surprised that Espinoza, and Benintendi would allow them to go from 5 all the way to 1 though. 
 
I don't have Insider, but it may also be the #1-#4 systems graduated their top prospects since January. Certainly the Cubs at #1 would fit.
 

Julius.R

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2010
212
Hank Scorpio said:
 
I think Moncada is factored here too. He wasn't wrapped up until sometime in spring training, if I recall.
 
Edit, in response to Detts. Yeah, I've never seen an "8" ceiling either on SoxProspects. Certainly intriguing. I know Bogaerts and I think Betts were both "7" players. I would be interested to know where Pedroia, Rizzo and (going back a lot further) Hanley, Lester, and even Nomar ranked (even if Nomar predates SoxProspects)...
 
What current young players outside of the Red Sox would garner an "8" as they were coming out of the minors? Trout, Harper, probably Bryant and Strausburg? What about guys like Machado, Lindor and Correa?
 
Using archives it seems SoxProspects only goes back to 2003. Quickly going through some of the pages Lester was a B+, Pedroia was a B+, Papelbon was an A-, Andy Marte was an A (with a 40hr potential), Buchholz was a 9-10, Ellsbury 8-9, Lars Anderson a 8-10, Casey Kelly a 8-9, Ryan Kalish a 8-9, Bogaerts was listed as a 3-10, and there were countless other prospects that had huge potentials but flamed out long ago. 
 

RoDaddy

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2002
3,247
Albany area, NY
Good to see Guerra final getting recogition as one of our best prospects.  Overall, I think that our minor league system has improved moderately this year from what was already one of the best organizations a year ago.  Among the big names, ERod, Swihart, Devers, Margot, Espinoza, Travis, Guerra, and Kopech, have all taken a significant step forward as hoped, with many other lesser prospects nicely developing as well (e.g., Lin, Light, Jerez).  We've also added Benintendi. There have also been disappointments but not as many, I don't think, as the above successes.  Disappointments inlcude Cecchini (who is now showing life again), Escobar, Chavis, Coyle, and post-prospect Castillo.  Moncada's recent surge has helped make-up for what looked like a major disappointment this year.
 

Detts

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
5,165
Greenville, SC
Julius.R said:
 
Using archives it seems SoxProspects only goes back to 2003. Quickly going through some of the pages Lester was a B+, Pedroia was a B+, Papelbon was an A-, Andy Marte was an A (with a 40hr potential), Buchholz was a 9-10, Ellsbury 8-9, Lars Anderson a 8-10, Casey Kelly a 8-9, Ryan Kalish a 8-9, Bogaerts was listed as a 3-10, and there were countless other prospects that had huge potentials but flamed out long ago. 
 
Strange.  The top end of the current system is an 8:
 
Prospect Scouting Scale
8 - Elite Talent
7 - All-Star
6 - First Division Starter
5 - Average Major Leaguer
4 - Impactful Bench Player
3 - Up & Down Player
2 - Minor Leaguer
[SIZE=6pt] [/SIZE]
 

Julius.R

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2010
212
Detts said:
 
Strange.  The top end of the current system is an 8:
 
Prospect Scouting Scale
8 - Elite Talent
7 - All-Star
6 - First Division Starter
5 - Average Major Leaguer
4 - Impactful Bench Player
3 - Up & Down Player
2 - Minor Leaguer
[SIZE=6pt] [/SIZE]
 
I believe they changed that recently. 
 

MrDaniel

New Member
Dec 9, 2005
161
Here is the old legend for reference.  I believe they changed it recently to be more consistent with scouting lingo
 
 
edit- sorry, the formatting didn't carry over well.
 
[SIZE=9pt]The SoxProspects.com prospect grading system is made up of two numbers: (1) the level where that player presently projects; and (2) that player's ceiling.  For example, a player who is graded "8-9" is projected to be an 8 (Long Term Reliable Starter), but has a ceiling of becoming a 9 (All-Star).[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=9pt]Pitchers[/SIZE]   [SIZE=9pt]Position Players[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]10  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Hall of Fame Caliber Pitcher [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Roger Clemens)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]10[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Hall of Fame Caliber Player[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Carl Yastrzemski, Manny Ramirez)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]9 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Ace Starter [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](Curt Schilling)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]9[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Perennial All-Star Caliber Player [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Nomar Garciaparra)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]8   [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]#2/#3 Starter [/SIZE](Bruce Hurst)
[SIZE=9pt]Dominant Closer [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](Lee Smith)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]8[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Long-Term Solid Starter[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Mike Greenwell - this level player may also be 
named an All-Star on occasion)[/SIZE]

 
[SIZE=9pt]7  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]#4/#5 Starter [/SIZE](Oil Can Boyd)
[SIZE=9pt]Dominant Reliever (Mike Timlin)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]7[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Average MLB Starter [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Marty Barrett)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]6  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Reliable Spot Starter [/SIZE](Ramiro Mendoza)[SIZE=9pt];[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Long-term Reliable Middle Reliever [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](Mike Stanton)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]6[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Long-Term Reliable MLB Bench Player [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Alex Cora, Doug Mirabelli)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]5[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Average Middle Reliever [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Alan Embree)[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]5[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]MLB Bench Player 
(
[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Dave McCarty)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]4  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]AAAA Pitcher [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](a pitcher who consistently [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]excels at AAA but fails when given shots in MLB)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]4[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]AAAA Player [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](a player who consistently excels 
at AAA but fails when given shots in MLB)[/SIZE]

 
[SIZE=9pt]3  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Good Minor League Pitcher[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]3[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Minor League Starter[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Mediocre Minor League Pitcher[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]2[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Minor League Bench Player[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]1 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Roster Filler[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Roster Filler[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]The examples provided in parentheses refer to the players in their prime, 
as an example of the level projected for that prospect in his prime
[/SIZE]​
 

TimScribble

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,474
I hope they don't trade any of the kids this trade season. I think the team has too many holes and won't be fixed this season. Better to sit, maybe be sellers (though I don't know if there is much to sell) and let the kids develop.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 30, 2006
10,569
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Benintendi will probably beat Devers to the majors if they both pan out. Maybe Moncada, too.
Well, Benintendi is more than two years older than Devers...and a year older than Moncada.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
Buzzkill Pauley said:
Well, Benintendi is more than two years older than Devers...and a year older than Moncada.
 
Yeah, that was the point I was making. I was responding to this:
 
j44thor said:
I'm really hoping they ride this out and keep the fruits of their labor.  If that means punting in 2016 I'm fine.  They could have a powerhouse of a team as early as 2017 and probably no later than 2018 with the likes of X, Betts, Swihart/Vasquez, Moncada, Devers, Margot all contributing and Benitendi not far behind.
 
Time to realize the current window has closed but they are about to open up window of about 10yrs so long as they don't make any panic trades in an attempt to appease the masses.
 

DaubachmanTurnerOD

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
671
Did anyone catch any of Law's chat? <br />
<br />
Any interesting tidbits about the Sox system or individual prospects?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
The only specific thing (that I remember at least, he did a long one today) he touched on was that Benentendi should be quickly promoted to high A, specifically because SEC guys are beyond he level of comp at low A. He did comment that his rankings were inclusive of depth, not just top 3-4 guys, which bodes well.
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
He also said that the only area lacking is high end arms near the majors, Owens aside, esp with ball and kopech issues. (implication was there are high end arms lower)
 

jscola85

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
1,305
I think Kopech, regardless of suspension, falls in the lower minors bucket.  He's at least 3 years from contributing in the majors.
 
Owens' recent trend, particularly his K/BB, has me starting to feel more excited again.  Good to see him face some adversity for the first time and adjust to it.
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
8,401
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
jscola85 said:
I think Kopech, regardless of suspension, falls in the lower minors bucket.  He's at least 3 years from contributing in the majors.
 
Owens' recent trend, particularly his K/BB, has me starting to feel more excited again.  Good to see him face some adversity for the first time and adjust to it.
Well .. The "adversity" may simply have been the result of the supposed fact that the Sox were prohibiting him from throwing his best pitch (the change up) in order to improve his FB command. I don't know if this restiction is still in place so it's hard to judge what his recent improvement means.
 

Drater

New Member
Aug 11, 2010
2
Rudy Pemberton said:
Interesting to see a the love for the AAA guys, especially Cecchini and Marrero. If there really is a market for these guys, and a thought that the only reason they aren't in the bigs is because they are blocked, than they seem like the most expendable trade chips by far.
I would love see a deal for a AA/AAA pitching prospect (I'm not completely sold on Owens). Could Cecchini + Marrero get you someone in the 20-30 range?

Fangraphs list from Feb has:
22. Dylan Bundy, RHP, Baltimore Orioles (shutdown with shoulder problems)
24. Jose Berrios, RHP, Minnesota Twins
25. Robert Stephenson, RHP, Cincinnati Reds
27. Alex Gonzalez, RHP, Texas Rangers
28. Jon Gray, RHP, Colorado Rockies
29. Jake Thompson, RHP, Texas Rangers
 

BosRedSox5

what's an original thought?
Sep 6, 2006
1,471
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Drater said:
I would love see a deal for a AA/AAA pitching prospect (I'm not completely sold on Owens). Could Cecchini + Marrero get you someone in the 20-30 range?

Fangraphs list from Feb has:
22. Dylan Bundy, RHP, Baltimore Orioles (shutdown with shoulder problems)
24. Jose Berrios, RHP, Minnesota Twins
25. Robert Stephenson, RHP, Cincinnati Reds
27. Alex Gonzalez, RHP, Texas Rangers
28. Jon Gray, RHP, Colorado Rockies
29. Jake Thompson, RHP, Texas Rangers
 
Could a day old grilled cheese and a hot dog get you a steak? 
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Two nickels don't buy you a quarter. Neither of those guys appear to be major league regulars.

As Dennis Miller said when he was still funny "Two of shit, is shit. If they really want to fuck you they'll give you three of them."
 

tbrown_01923

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2006
780
MrDaniel said:
Here is the old legend for reference.  I believe they changed it recently to be more consistent with scouting lingo
 
 
edit- sorry, the formatting didn't carry over well.
 
[SIZE=9pt]The SoxProspects.com prospect grading system is made up of two numbers: (1) the level where that player presently projects; and (2) that player's ceiling.  For example, a player who is graded "8-9" is projected to be an 8 (Long Term Reliable Starter), but has a ceiling of becoming a 9 (All-Star).[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=9pt]Pitchers[/SIZE]   [SIZE=9pt]Position Players[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]10  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Hall of Fame Caliber Pitcher [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Roger Clemens)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]10[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Hall of Fame Caliber Player[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Carl Yastrzemski, Manny Ramirez)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]9 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Ace Starter [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](Curt Schilling)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]9[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Perennial All-Star Caliber Player [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Nomar Garciaparra)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]8   [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]#2/#3 Starter [/SIZE](Bruce Hurst)
[SIZE=9pt]Dominant Closer [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](Lee Smith)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]8[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Long-Term Solid Starter[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Mike Greenwell - this level player may also be 
named an All-Star on occasion)[/SIZE]

 
[SIZE=9pt]7  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]#4/#5 Starter [/SIZE](Oil Can Boyd)
[SIZE=9pt]Dominant Reliever (Mike Timlin)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]7[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Average MLB Starter [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Marty Barrett)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]6  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Reliable Spot Starter [/SIZE](Ramiro Mendoza)[SIZE=9pt];[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Long-term Reliable Middle Reliever [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](Mike Stanton)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]6[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Long-Term Reliable MLB Bench Player [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Alex Cora, Doug Mirabelli)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]5[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Average Middle Reliever [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt](Alan Embree)[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]5[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]MLB Bench Player 
(
[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Dave McCarty)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]4  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]AAAA Pitcher [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](a pitcher who consistently [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]excels at AAA but fails when given shots in MLB)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]4[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]AAAA Player [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt](a player who consistently excels 
at AAA but fails when given shots in MLB)[/SIZE]

 
[SIZE=9pt]3  [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Good Minor League Pitcher[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]3[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Minor League Starter[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Mediocre Minor League Pitcher[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]2[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Minor League Bench Player[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=9pt]1 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Roster Filler[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]Roster Filler[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]The examples provided in parentheses refer to the players in their prime, 
as an example of the level projected for that prospect in his prime
[/SIZE]​
 
SP ranges appear have gotten stiffer over the last few years.  When I started following things were entirely too optimistic.