Enes Kanter to Boston

lovegtm

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I don't mind EK adding longer range as an option but I hope it doesn't become his ONLY option. I kind of like the idea of the C's having some kind of low post game.
Adding 3s can help make his post game useful. He’ll demand more switches if he pops, and teams will be more tempted to try and hide guys on him if he’s on the perimeter (ala what they do often with Brook Lopez).
 

DannyDarwinism

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When was the last time the Celtics had a good offensive rebounder in their rotation? Kanter was second in the league in offensive rebound percentage, 16.4% only 4/10s behind Andre Drummond. Kanter was sixth in total rebound percentage, 21.1%.

Hopefully, Celtics coaching and scheme can shore up his well noted defensive deficiencies and keep him on the floor.
I don’t think offensive rebounds are a priority for bigs in Brad’s system. Horford, Amir, Bass, Jerebko, Zeller, and David Lee all put up OReb% at or near career lows in their time in Boston. Olynyk is the exception, but I suspect that has more to do with moving to the 4 full time and playing alongside Adebayo and Whiteside.

The Celtics generally prefer to have their bigs get back quickly rather than crash hard and risk giving up easy looks on the other end. Kanter’s better at it than any of the guys mentioned above, but he’s also probably the slowest of foot and the least apt to recover quickly, so it’ll be interesting to see if it’s something they try to move him away from.
 

Jimbodandy

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He has played for four teams in his NBA career. I am sure thos coaches also tried to shore up his defensive deficiencies.
Not every team emphasizes the same things. Some put more emphasis on man, where Kanter is likely always to suck. But Brad's is more about assignments. Not sure how much time was invested in coaching him up in that system. Also Kanter is at a different stage of life.

Not saying that it's going to work well, but it's not crazy talk to think that he improves there.
 

DJnVa

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And 2 of those teams he joined in the middle of the season, so there's not going to be a hell of a lot of practice time. I don't think he's going to suddenly be a good defender, but maybe moving from turnstile to below average by a fair amount could be achievable.
 

lovegtm

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He has played for four teams in his NBA career. I am sure thos coaches also tried to shore up his defensive deficiencies.
I'm not optimistic about Kanter's defense, but Stotts was able to mostly hide him through two rounds against good teams (OKC and Denver). Winning two playoff series in the West is nothing to sneeze at and not a fluke, especially with Portland, which isn't some kind of amazing juggernaut (full respect to Dame and CJ, who are great).

Kanter is sort of kind of playable as purely a drop defender, which means that against teams without dynamic guards who are threats to pull from 3 off screens, he's playable. GSW completely toasted him with off-ball action and Steph, but mostly Steph. The math of exploiting drop defense without that kind of guy is just really hard--you end up needing really elite mid-range guys, and even then, you're on the knife's edge in terms of 2*X not being over 1.00 PPP enough of the time (see Irving, Kyrie, games 2-5).

Where things get interesting is that neither of the top 2 teams in the East have anyone threatening in PnR actions in terms of shooting (maybe Tobias, if you squint). I'm hopeful that the Celtics can find a way to upgrade at center, but even if they don't, they could match up better than you'd think against those teams with Kanter on the floor.
 

DJnVa

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That seems like an overly harsh way of looking at it unless I'm completely missing some sarcasm.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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His stroke is really clean. He also obviously knows what he has to do if he wants another NBA contract after this one.
Kanter was a key playoff contributor last season. I’m sure he’d be just fine without a theee-point shot but he always had good shooting mechanics so his work should pay off. I mean, Amir Johnson is still collecting checks.
 

lovegtm

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Kanter was a key playoff contributor last season. I’m sure he’d be just fine without a theee-point shot but he always had good shooting mechanics so his work should pay off. I mean, Amir Johnson is still collecting checks.
Yeah, that’s hyperbole on my part, although “just fine” in this case is 2/$10. Brook Lopez showed everyone what happens to those contract numbers if you are draining 3s at 35%+ with a quick trigger.
 

snowmanny

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He was on the radio today. Said he could feel the negative energy on last year's Celtics from the other side. Expects it all to be different this year, sort of alluding to Kemba vs Kyrie but careful to only compliment Kyrie. Said that the best player he ever was on a team with was Westbrook, part of that is because Westbrook is such a good teammate (and specifically a better teammate than Durant). Said that Jokic is the best big man because he does everything well but Jokic would be "unstoppable" if he got in shape.

Ed: Caught the tail end of this part but seemed to say he can play better defense than we think.... from time to time.... when necessary....referenced his play in the playoffs.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Random Kanter thoughts. Many people have been very tempered in their expectations, largely because of his defensive limitations. I understand the concern but I do think it is worth noting that for his entire career he was consistently a -2.0 DBPM player, except for the past two years now where he has basically been a 0.0. It isn't much but there is improvement there.

View: https://www.instagram.com/tv/B2Eo6RPJ6Yg/?igshid=hq4j7lsiw96e

Then today Brickley posts this, 95% of his videos are guys doing offensive work, Kanter is spending the summer working on PnR defense. He won't ever be a rim protector but a defensively average Kanter is a very good player, and if he can shoot... I'm cautiously optimistic.
 

ggreene

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Double-double guy for 5M. Can't argue with that. Al was a nice guy with a good balance of off/def skills but never worth Max.
 

slamminsammya

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Double-double guy for 5M. Can't argue with that. Al was a nice guy with a good balance of off/def skills but never worth Max.
He wasn't worth the max? Al Horford was a top tier big man in the league during his time with the Celtics. Why do you think he wasnt worth the max? Who is worth it if not Horford?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Double-double guy for 5M. Can't argue with that. Al was a nice guy with a good balance of off/def skills but never worth Max.
Horford has been worthy of being a max player for nearly his entire career and possesses a skill set that figures to age well. When your All-Star 5 isn’t worthy of a max deal there is something severely wrong with your organizations player evaluation team.
 

lovegtm

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Horford has been worthy of being a max player for nearly his entire career and possesses a skill set that figures to age well. When your All-Star 5 isn’t worthy of a max deal there is something severely wrong with your organizations player evaluation team.
Once the guy led the post with his excitement about getting a "double-double guy", my brain kind of switched off for the rest of the sentence.
 

ggreene

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Why would you offer a max contract to an aging PF who doesn't want to play center? He already needed maintenance days with a gimpy knee and was on a minute restriction sometimes as well. Can't really blame Ainge for not wanting to sign him for Max for those years. Maybe I'm being too picky about who deserves a max contract but I just don't see Al as one of those top elite players.

As far as Kanter goes, is a center that can score and rebound near double-double level not good value at 5M/year? I thought it was a good signing by Ainge. Seems to have a team attitude and hopefully will help them this year.
 

benhogan

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Why would you offer a max contract to an aging PF who doesn't want to play center? He already needed maintenance days with a gimpy knee and was on a minute restriction sometimes as well. Can't really blame Ainge for not wanting to sign him for Max for those years. Maybe I'm being too picky about who deserves a max contract but I just don't see Al as one of those top elite players.

As far as Kanter goes, is a center that can score and rebound near double-double level not good value at 5M/year? I thought it was a good signing by Ainge. Seems to have a team attitude and hopefully will help them this year.
Horford's definitely not a MAX player playing over 90% of his minutes at the 5 for the next 3 seasons...He'd be worn down to a nub and never last ;)

If Brad uses Kanter properly, he's good value at $5MM/yr
 

tbrown_01923

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a center that can score and rebound near double-double level not good value at 5M/year
That type of argument isn't going to have much weight on this forum - remember there are two sides of the game and rebouding isn't "defense". I like Kanter at 5mm and hope has improved enough on defense to be a net positive. (EDIT) what @benhogan says - Brad needs to find a way for Kanter to be the net positive and I think he does.

already needed maintenance days with a gimpy knee and was on a minute restriction sometimes as well
If you want to make the argument based on projections that Al isn't a max going forward - you stand a better chance of defending that. However over his tenure with the C's he earned every dollar he was paid. I project that value being there over the next two years, before we discuss whether he i entering the true "handle with care" side of his career.
 

ggreene

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Al opted out. He did not want to play center anymore. He's already made the decision himself that he wants to be handled with care. Maybe he knows his body better then we do.
 

InstaFace

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Yeah Al's value was subtle. His passing, his low turnover rate with the ball in his hand, the multitude of ways he knew to set up a play, and his organizing of the defense verbally. His leadership abilities are easy to underrate. Maybe you couldn't rely on him as a full time 5, but with good supplemental roster construction, he was easily a Max player.
 

lexrageorge

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Al was undoubtedly a max player during his stay in Boston. Also note that Al took less than the max for the next 4 years. So it is indeed to correct that Horford is no longer a max player any more. And I can understand why Ainge didn't attempt to match or exceed.

I'm not nearly as down on Kanter as others here; I think he is well worth $5M in today's NBA; they could have easily done worse.
 

slamminsammya

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Why would you offer a max contract to an aging PF who doesn't want to play center? He already needed maintenance days with a gimpy knee and was on a minute restriction sometimes as well. Can't really blame Ainge for not wanting to sign him for Max for those years. Maybe I'm being too picky about who deserves a max contract but I just don't see Al as one of those top elite players.

As far as Kanter goes, is a center that can score and rebound near double-double level not good value at 5M/year? I thought it was a good signing by Ainge. Seems to have a team attitude and hopefully will help them this year.
Yes, you're too picky. Lots of players are worth the max. The NBA salary cap works in mysterious ways, such that its worthwhile giving the max to a large portion of above average guys. To me its not even a question as to whether Horford was ever worth the max (your original point).
 

Jimbodandy

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Yes, you're too picky. Lots of players are worth the max. The NBA salary cap works in mysterious ways, such that its worthwhile giving the max to a large portion of above average guys. To me its not even a question as to whether Horford was ever worth the max (your original point).
Yeah the notion that "max" guys are only first team all NBA players should be discarded completely. Actually it should have been discarded years ago.

That's a separate discussion from the merits of judging tall guys by PPG/RPG primarily.
 

ggreene

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Once you enter Vince's world anything is possible. Some kind of retaliation pr stunt at an NBA game is not outside the realm of possibility. :)
 

bigq

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I know this has been brewing for some time. This is some scary shit. I want Kanter and Tacko and everyone else who was at the mosque to be safe.

 
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Reverend

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I know this has been brewing for some time. This is some scary shit. I want Kanter and Tacko and everyone else who was at the mosque to be safe.

It must be fun to be accosted by a bunch of grown men and have absolutely no fear of physical threat.