Enes Kanter to Boston

OurF'ingCity

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Why is the generalized opinion of another fan base relevant to how much he can help the Celtics? There are better ways to measure a player.
Would you rather Blazers fans were saying "it sucked rooting for him, good luck with that, you're going to hate him"?

More seriously, it isn't relevant to how much he can help the Celtics. It IS relevant to how much Celtics FANS might or might not enjoy watching him play.
 

bowiac

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I don’t even know what “replacement level” looks like as a 5 in the NBA. Does that mean anyone cane simply be plugged into a matchup against a skilled and athletic 7-footer and do fine? That isn’t reality.
Not that they're gonna do fine. Just that they'll only do as badly as Kanter.

Other replacement level guys are Kosta Koufos, Tyler Zeller, Zaza, Bogut, etc... These are guys who can basically be had at the vet minimum.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not that they're gonna do fine. Just that they'll only do as badly as Kanter.

Other replacement level guys are Kosta Koufos, Tyler Zeller, Zaza, Bogut, etc... These are guys who can basically be had at the vet minimum.
I mean, in terms of generalized value yes, but all of those guys have different skill sets, strengths and weaknesses. How they fit into a team is wildly different. The idea that signing Zaza, a 35 year old who can't play more than 10-14 minutes a game, defends decently and rebounds ok, is the same as 27 year old Kanter, who rebounds very well, can play 25 minutes easily if needed produces value on offense and nothing on defense, is the same thing when building a team is just silly. You pick players based on their strengths and weaknesses, and how those fit into your roster and scheme.
 

EL Jeffe

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Brook Lopez signed for 1/3.3 last off season with the Bucks and ended up being a near perfect fit. Each guy and each system is unique. I don't know that Kanter is the right fit, but I think it's shortsighted to write him off. He's big, he can score and he can rebound. We'll see what happens.
 

BaseballJones

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The good news is that Kanter's contract isn't so bad that it hamstrings them. If he sucks, he sits or becomes trade ballast. Oh well.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not that they're gonna do fine. Just that they'll only do as badly as Kanter.

Other replacement level guys are Kosta Koufos, Tyler Zeller, Zaza, Bogut, etc... These are guys who can basically be had at the vet minimum.
Right. Except Kanter was more than competent since being acquired during the regular season AND in playoff games vs difficult matchups. It wouldn’t be relaistic to expect that same performance out of players you mention. That’s my point about the definition of “replacement” at the 5 as only Bogut would have a chance at being competent in a high intensity playoff series. Seller would have 3 fouls in his rotation in a January game. These aren’t the “grow on trees” 3 and D guys.
 

bowiac

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I mean, in terms of generalized value yes, but all of those guys have different skill sets, strengths and weaknesses. How they fit into a team is wildly different. The idea that signing Zaza, a 35 year old who can't play more than 10-14 minutes a game, defends decently and rebounds ok, is the same as 27 year old Kanter, who rebounds very well, can play 25 minutes easily if needed produces value on offense and nothing on defense, is the same thing when building a team is just silly. You pick players based on their strengths and weaknesses, and how those fit into your roster and scheme.
Sure. Replacement level is a concept to describe what sort of talent is freely available. Obviously teams need to find the guys who fit their particular scheme and needs however, not just plug in a random guy at "replacement level". Some RL guys will do better in the right scheme, some will do worse, etc... I don't think Kanter is a good fit, but I'm not saying I'd have preferred Kanter (see above for the list of guys I'd have actually preferred).
 

bowiac

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Right. Except Kanter was more than competent since being acquired during the regular season AND in playoff games vs difficult matchups. It wouldn’t be relaistic to expect that same performance out of players you mention. That’s my point about the definition of “replacement” at the 5 as only Bogut would have a chance at being competent in a high intensity playoff series. Seller would have 3 fouls in his rotation in a January game. These aren’t the “grow on trees” 3 and D guys.
Suffice to say we disagree as to whether Kanter has much chance of being competent in the regular season or playoffs for the Celtics. Hope I'm wrong!
 

Captaincoop

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It's hard to imagine Kanter improving much at this point in his career. That's why I was hoping for Poirier - so I could spend a few months imagining he would take a huge step forward and be a star center in the NBA.

Brad without the Kyrie anchor around his neck made Kelly Olynyk look like a real NBA player. I bet he can find a way to use Kanter.
 

BaseballJones

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It's hard to imagine Kanter improving much at this point in his career. That's why I was hoping for Poirier - so I could spend a few months imagining he would take a huge step forward and be a star center in the NBA.

Brad without the Kyrie anchor around his neck made Kelly Olynyk look like a real NBA player. I bet he can find a way to use Kanter.
Yep, and if he can't...it's not a huge investment of $$. Again, their situation was such that there just wasn't that much available in their price range. Anybody they signed at this point is going to have flaws. Probably significant ones. Or else they wouldn't be available for such little $$.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It's hard to imagine Kanter improving much at this point in his career. That's why I was hoping for Poirier - so I could spend a few months imagining he would take a huge step forward and be a star center in the NBA.

Brad without the Kyrie anchor around his neck made Kelly Olynyk look like a real NBA player. I bet he can find a way to use Kanter.
Kelly Olynyk is a "real NBA player" and actually had his best season in Miami the season before last. He is also far superior to Kanter.

That said, your point stands that Stevens should be able to figure out a role for Enes that maximizes his talents while minimizing his flaws.
 

Cellar-Door

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It's hard to imagine Kanter improving much at this point in his career. That's why I was hoping for Poirier - so I could spend a few months imagining he would take a huge step forward and be a star center in the NBA.

Brad without the Kyrie anchor around his neck made Kelly Olynyk look like a real NBA player. I bet he can find a way to use Kanter.
Olynyk is a good NBA player with surprisingly high lateral agility and who can shoot, I'd take him over Kanter in a heartbeat
 

PedroKsBambino

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Four First Round Frank Kaminsky also signed room exception deal. I wouldn’t prefer him to Kanter, but am interesting guy as part of a two-man C rotation if you assume there’s someone with size freely available as well
 

Kliq

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I mean, in terms of generalized value yes, but all of those guys have different skill sets, strengths and weaknesses. How they fit into a team is wildly different. The idea that signing Zaza, a 35 year old who can't play more than 10-14 minutes a game, defends decently and rebounds ok, is the same as 27 year old Kanter, who rebounds very well, can play 25 minutes easily if needed produces value on offense and nothing on defense, is the same thing when building a team is just silly. You pick players based on their strengths and weaknesses, and how those fit into your roster and scheme.
Yeah, Kanter has strengths that can win you games and weaknesses that can lose you games; in that sense he is a high ceiling-low floor guy. That person is much more valuable imo than some of the other names bowiac has mentioned, because in the right kind of system with the right kind of coach, you can maximize his strengths and hide his weaknesses. It might be something as simple as Brad recognizing early in games how effective Kanter is going to be against the opposing team that night, and managing his playing time accordingly.
 

bowiac

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Yeah, Kanter has strengths that can win you games and weaknesses that can lose you games; in that sense he is a high ceiling-low floor guy. That person is much more valuable imo than some of the other names bowiac has mentioned, because in the right kind of system with the right kind of coach, you can maximize his strengths and hide his weaknesses. It might be something as simple as Brad recognizing early in games how effective Kanter is going to be against the opposing team that night, and managing his playing time accordingly.
I think this is mostly fair actually. He an unusual skillset - I don't think it's a good fit for the Celtics as a starter, but he could be useful in certain matchups/usage patterns. Not sure I agree that makes him high ceiling/low floor, but that's semantics.

The last two Celtics acquisitions which confused me this much were Evan Turner and David Lee. Stevens found a role for Turner despite his flaws; wasn't able to do the same for Lee. Lets hope Kanter is more of the former.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think this is mostly fair actually. He an unusual skillset - I don't think it's a good fit for the Celtics as a starter, but he could be useful in certain matchups/usage patterns. Not sure I agree that makes him high ceiling/low floor, but that's semantics.

The last two Celtics acquisitions which confused me this much were Evan Turner and David Lee. Stevens found a role for Turner despite his flaws; wasn't able to do the same for Lee. Lets hope Kanter is more of the former.
David Lee will someday be the answer to the trivia question "who is the one guy who actually played worse under Brad Stevens".
 

benhogan

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Don't love Kanter, if they could have had Holmes. Start TL, take our medicine. (Wo ist Theis?)

I guess we can use Kanter off the bench as our 2nd unit BIG where his defense may not get exposed and he can dominate on offense.

We'll always have Dec 15th.

Come on Danny make my pipe dreams come true...

 

lexrageorge

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I think you are correct. He thinks his citizenship will be done in 2021 so at least for year one of this deal, he's staying in Boston for those games (unless something has / does change). This being said, REALLY hope we dont draw them in the playoffs
The hope is that a Celtics/Raptors playoff matchup would generate enough publicity to force Trudeau to get his head out of his ass and tell Erdogan where to stick it.
 

Imbricus

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Interesting he was drafted only two spots behind Kyrie in 2011. His scouting report was really good. No big concern about his defense back then anyway.
 

mcpickl

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Man, I really dislike Kanters game. The Celtics are going to get roasted on defense with him on the floor.

I guess the only tiny benefit at all if if the Celtics are going to keep playing so small starting 3s at the 4, the 5 better be able to grab a lot of rebounds because he's going to be on his own quite a bit.

Maybe Kanter can at least do that, tho he's much better on the offensive board which will be less critical than getting their defensive rebounds.
 

benhogan

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Here is the best I can do with this:
1. Kanter posted his first positive BPM for the Knicks last season.
2. Kanter posted a positive BPM with the Knicks and Portland this season
3. Kanter was very productive in the playoffs

Kanter missed a year of college development with "NCAA drama". He has had his share of "NBA drama" with OKC early in his career, LeBron and Durant back/fourth. AND a share of "real life drama" with Erdogan looking to extradite him w/his family being harassed in Turkey. He's a devout Muslim living in the US, that can't be all that easy.

Maybe he finally figured out "his" game at the age of 25 and 26. He is trending upwards.

 

DJnVa

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This is likely just Fizdale pumping up his player, but he talks a little about Kanter improving on defense.

"I think he's starting to show he's a better defender than everyone tried to label him as. That's real hard work and conditioning and systematically putting him in the right place. He's doing a heckuva job defensively. On the glass, he's a terror."
 

InstaFace

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Got a poster-worthy block? TURKEY STUFFING

Making up some shit about why he didn't play the previous night's game? JIVE TURKEY

Plays all 48 minutes of an epic playoff win? TROJAN HORSE

Crashes his escalade? TURKEY ON THE ROAD

Gets the game-winning buzzer-beating put-back? TURKISH DELIGHT


It's gonna write itself.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This reminds me of the Mark Blount signing from many moons ago. A flawed big who can matchup physically with opposing bigs and give you minutes when we desperately need to add size. The only healthy big we had at that time was Earnest Brown with Raef still on crutches following knee surgery.
 

InstaFace

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Hot shooting streak: RAEFER MADNESS

point guard abuses him on switches: BLOUNT SMOKED

...Yeah, not really feeling the comparison in the whole Legalize It era.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Celtics are not an analytically stupid team. It's interesting that they would go after one of the worst (as far as analytics are concerned) available options to essentially replace a guy (Baynes) who was a positive.

Makes one wonder why.
Here is the best I can do with this:
1. Kanter posted his first positive BPM for the Knicks last season.
2. Kanter posted a positive BPM with the Knicks and Portland this season
3. Kanter was very productive in the playoffs

Kanter missed a year of college development with "NCAA drama". He has had his share of "NBA drama" with OKC early in his career, LeBron and Durant back/fourth. AND a share of "real life drama" with Erdogan looking to extradite him w/his family being harassed in Turkey. He's a devout Muslim living in the US, that can't be all that easy.

Maybe he finally figured out "his" game at the age of 25 and 26. He is trending upwards.
They must have seen something that they like. But even last year he ranked 60 out of 72 centers in RPM, 71st out if 72 in DRPM. (He was better - 18th - in ORPM.

Ben Falk at cleaningtheglass.com had him at -8.1 points in on/off, which put him in the 15th percentile (ie, worse than 85% of NBA bigs) for last season, but very interestingly rated him much higher than that in the playoffs (+2.2, 63rd percentile).
 

lovegtm

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The Celtics are not an analytically stupid team. It's interesting that they would go after one of the worst (as far as analytics are concerned) available options to essentially replace a guy (Baynes) who was a positive.

Makes one wonder why.
They must have seen something that they like. But even last year he ranked 60 out of 72 centers in RPM, 71st out if 72 in DRPM. (He was better - 18th - in ORPM.

Ben Falk at cleaningtheglass.com had him at -8.1 points in on/off, which put him in the 15th percentile (ie, worse than 85% of NBA bigs) for last season, but very interestingly rated him much higher than that in the playoffs (+2.2, 63rd percentile).
My only guess is that they saw something in the playoffs that was repeatable, and something in Portland’s context and usage of him that’s similar to Boston’s.

I’m low on Kanter for all the reasons most of us are, but the Celtics have a really strong track record in evaluating players already at the NBA level. I’m excited to see whether there’s something we’re all missing.

I also assume that at some point a zealous blogger will put together a video breakdown of his playoff run, so that we can see whether anything he did there was really different.
 

Eddie Jurak

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One thing I expect is that he's off somewhere working on developing a 3 point shot, as Baynes did. Baynes is a career .281 shooter of the three (25 for 89), though all but 4 of his makes occurred last year when he shot .344 (21 for 61). Baynes is also 13-30 (.433) in the playoffs, basically entirely since he came to Boston.

Kanter is a career .294 (42 of 143) reg season, .167 in playoffs (3 of 18).

Brook Lopez was 3 of 31 before he became a successful high volume shooter 3 years ago.

Edit: Also, Kemba runs a ton of pick and roll, which Kanter can do.
 

bowiac

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It's a good point on the Kanter three - he's a high 70s free throw guy, and is 37% from 16ft+.

Pretty decent chance he can add range out there if he makes it a priority.
 

lovegtm

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It's a good point on the Kanter three - he's a high 70s free throw guy, and is 37% from 16ft+.

Pretty decent chance he can add range out there if he makes it a priority.
Are there studies on guys who shoot X% from (say) 16ft out being able to extend range more easily, or does it suffer too much from survivor bias?
 

Conigliaro's Potential

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This reminds me of the Mark Blount signing from many moons ago. A flawed big who can matchup physically with opposing bigs and give you minutes when we desperately need to add size. The only healthy big we had at that time was Earnest Brown with Raef still on crutches following knee surgery.
So this forum is soon to be rechristened "Enes Kanter's Raki Cupboard"?