Enes Kanter Freedom to Boston

benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
lovegtm said:
It’s hilarious how much the narrative focuses on center when this team lives or dies based on its offensive execution from guards and wings.
Click to expand...
Well the C's are riding with what they have at ballhandler & wings(Kemba, JT, JB, GH, MS) right? Let it continue to improve, heal, gel. I doubt they are moving any of those players. This team will live/die with the BIG4 to a certain extent, but a move at the edges could mean the difference between a 2 and 5 seed.

It would be really nice if Grant takes a step forward to add depth at the 4/big wing.

My narrative focuses on Center since its a spot they can mildly improve on with depth. I disagree with any narrative that says Theis/Kanter are inadequate, they just need to add a healthy, defensive-minded 5. I suspect Brad feels he can get away with Grant at the 5, which hasn't really worked IMO.

I agree that the national NBA media narrative of the Celtics adding an expensive 5 (Drummond, Love, TT) is downright silly/hilarious.
 
Last edited:
Jimbodandy

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,527
around the way
lovegtm said:
It’s hilarious how much the narrative focuses on center when this team lives or dies based on its offensive execution from guards and wings.
Click to expand...
It's the Kanter thread.

If we're talking about Matt Slater in the 2020 offseason thread, it doesn't mean that the outcome of the Brady contract or JMcD taking a coaching job is on the same level.
 
scottyno

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,342
@DeJesus Built My Hotrod Moving the Kanter discussion over here because I got a bit more info on the Kanter p+r situation though it's only a partial answer. After being confused by the numbers on nba.com I sent a tweet to synergy, and had a dm conversation with whoever it is they have handling that account, heres what I got:

-The 61% number is his offense p+r stats as the roller, the 31% is his defense when he stays home and defends the roll (not very often apparently, .9 times per game, still not sure what the frequency number means).

- According to whoever I talked to, teams actually run P+R at him about 9x more often where he switches than where he stays home, and on those plays where he ends up on the ball handler he allows 45% shooting. Not sure how many shots that is, how many ended in fouls, or what exactly it includes, this info isn't on NBA.com, the only way to get it is with a synergy subscription which I don't have, he just gave me that number.

I'm not sure if anywhere tracks publicly tracks possessions per player, but the Cs run about 103 possessions per game, so that's probably about 45 plays a game where he's on the court, so if those numbers are right teams run p+r at him about 20% of the time, which seems feasible. The field goal percentage part I'm not sure about, 31% and 45% both seem really good, but without any more context to the 45% (the majority of his plays), it's hard to really make anything of it. I don't even know if the 9x thing refers to how many shots, or just how often they run it at him, though I'm pretty sure it's not shots because he only defends 9.4 fgs a game overall (at a slightly below average level). I asked if those numbers meant he actually wasn't a bad p+r defender this year, and they said that they hadn't actually watched much of him this year so it was too complicated to say. I also asked if they laid out anywhere how they determined the primary defender on shots, and they said that wasn't available publicly anywhere, so really who knows, given that I'm pretty sure it's done by a bunch of people being paid minimumish wage.

So yeah, not sure if any of that makes anything clearer, and unless someone has a synergy account I'm not sure we'll get any more answers other than anecdotally. Team defense appears to be a bit worse when he's on than off (47-37 on vs 46-35 off with a slightly higher fta rate when he's on), metrics all say he's having a good defensive year, though they say that about most of the team as expected, and overall the team is better when he's on the court, obviously some of that is him only being put in situations where they expect him to suceed.
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,688
scottyno said:
@DeJesus Built My Hotrod Moving the Kanter discussion over here because I got a bit more info on the Kanter p+r situation though it's only a partial answer. After being confused by the numbers on nba.com I sent a tweet to synergy, and had a dm conversation with whoever it is they have handling that account, heres what I got:

-The 61% number is his offense p+r stats as the roller, the 31% is his defense when he stays home and defends the roll (not very often apparently, .9 times per game, still not sure what the frequency number means).

- According to whoever I talked to, teams actually run P+R at him about 9x more often where he switches than where he stays home, and on those plays where he ends up on the ball handler he allows 45% shooting. Not sure how many shots that is, how many ended in fouls, or what exactly it includes, this info isn't on NBA.com, the only way to get it is with a synergy subscription which I don't have, he just gave me that number.

I'm not sure if anywhere tracks publicly tracks possessions per player, but the Cs run about 103 possessions per game, so that's probably about 45 plays a game where he's on the court, so if those numbers are right teams run p+r at him about 20% of the time, which seems feasible. The field goal percentage part I'm not sure about, 31% and 45% both seem really good, but without any more context to the 45% (the majority of his plays), it's hard to really make anything of it. I don't even know if the 9x thing refers to how many shots, or just how often they run it at him, though I'm pretty sure it's not shots because he only defends 9.4 fgs a game overall (at a slightly below average level). I asked if those numbers meant he actually wasn't a bad p+r defender this year, and they said that they hadn't actually watched much of him this year so it was too complicated to say. I also asked if they laid out anywhere how they determined the primary defender on shots, and they said that wasn't available publicly anywhere, so really who knows, given that I'm pretty sure it's done by a bunch of people being paid minimumish wage.

So yeah, not sure if any of that makes anything clearer, and unless someone has a synergy account I'm not sure we'll get any more answers other than anecdotally. Team defense appears to be a bit worse when he's on than off (47-37 on vs 46-35 off with a slightly higher fta rate when he's on), metrics all say he's having a good defensive year, though they say that about most of the team as expected, and overall the team is better when he's on the court, obviously some of that is him only being put in situations where they expect him to suceed.
Click to expand...
Thank you for doing the work and the one thing I forgot to look at the time - and its an obvious oversight - is how his defense looks this year vs prior years. In short, his NBA.com defensive rating is at its best level since his second season in Utah and his on/off stats are much better than the last few years though some of that can be chalked up to playing for the Knicks.

Again, I think what is happening with him is that Boston is utilizing him better. He is not a true starting big in the league do to his physical limitations (he can start of course but you probably don't want him to unless you are NYK or Portland with a front-court that is decimated) and the Celtics have figured out his efficient frontier in terms of minutes per game vs production. Some nights, he will get ~25 or even ~30 mpg but others he may only see ~10 if the team is targeting him.

Finally, Stevens gets a lot of well deserved criticism around these parts for his in-game minutes, timeout and officials management. However I think Kanter's year is yet another example of how good he and the C's braintrust are at taking a player and emphasizing what they do well. Turner, IT4 and Crowder are other obvious players you can point to where the Celtics seemed to get the best out of them while covering for what they couldn't do.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,240
scottyno said:
@DeJesus Built My Hotrod Moving the Kanter discussion over here because I got a bit more info on the Kanter p+r situation though it's only a partial answer. After being confused by the numbers on nba.com I sent a tweet to synergy, and had a dm conversation with whoever it is they have handling that account, heres what I got:

-The 61% number is his offense p+r stats as the roller, the 31% is his defense when he stays home and defends the roll (not very often apparently, .9 times per game, still not sure what the frequency number means).

- According to whoever I talked to, teams actually run P+R at him about 9x more often where he switches than where he stays home, and on those plays where he ends up on the ball handler he allows 45% shooting. Not sure how many shots that is, how many ended in fouls, or what exactly it includes, this info isn't on NBA.com, the only way to get it is with a synergy subscription which I don't have, he just gave me that number.

I'm not sure if anywhere tracks publicly tracks possessions per player, but the Cs run about 103 possessions per game, so that's probably about 45 plays a game where he's on the court, so if those numbers are right teams run p+r at him about 20% of the time, which seems feasible. The field goal percentage part I'm not sure about, 31% and 45% both seem really good, but without any more context to the 45% (the majority of his plays), it's hard to really make anything of it. I don't even know if the 9x thing refers to how many shots, or just how often they run it at him, though I'm pretty sure it's not shots because he only defends 9.4 fgs a game overall (at a slightly below average level). I asked if those numbers meant he actually wasn't a bad p+r defender this year, and they said that they hadn't actually watched much of him this year so it was too complicated to say. I also asked if they laid out anywhere how they determined the primary defender on shots, and they said that wasn't available publicly anywhere, so really who knows, given that I'm pretty sure it's done by a bunch of people being paid minimumish wage.

So yeah, not sure if any of that makes anything clearer, and unless someone has a synergy account I'm not sure we'll get any more answers other than anecdotally. Team defense appears to be a bit worse when he's on than off (47-37 on vs 46-35 off with a slightly higher fta rate when he's on), metrics all say he's having a good defensive year, though they say that about most of the team as expected, and overall the team is better when he's on the court, obviously some of that is him only being put in situations where they expect him to suceed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the work here.

I saw some misunderstandings of what "putting Kanter in the PnR" actually means on in the gamethread. It's not about the simple act of running a PnR. It comes down to whether the opposing team has the personnel to create a couple options:

1. Shoot the 3 directly off the pick. The Celtics ice most PnRs, even middle, against teams with the shooters to do this when Kanter is on the floor. Toronto has found some counters by running pre-actions to avoid these ices, but it's work.
2. Hit midrangers or floaters. Richardson and Ish Smith killed Kanter with this. This is the hardest to stop, and the time when he's closest to being played off the floor. The Celtics can do some stuff to limit the equity of these possessions by putting in more effort to bother the shot from behind, but it's tough.

The Lakers don't have the personnel to attack either off-the-dribble 3 or floater range. It's a big weakness of their roster as constructed, and I've mentioned it before in non-Celtics contexts. When they run up against teams like Boston that can just switch all LeBron/AD actions (go watch the video of their 4th quarter offense grinding to a halt on Christmas against LAC), their offense really gums up, because they don't have that jitterbug shoot+drive threat (think Kemba/Dame at the high end, VanVleet at the upper-mid end). It's a great matchup for Kanter, and I was realized surprised to see people in gamethread suggesting they'd "run him off the floor"--they have maybe the worst personnel of any good team for that purpose.

If you can roll out Kanter lineups that have Smart and 3 big wings, he stays pretty playable in most situations. The 4 plus defenders can do a lot to limit the equity of those PnR advantages: pursue better from behind, fight over screens, dig on drives, and you end up about breaking even.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
lovegtm said:
Thanks for the work here.

I saw some misunderstandings of what "putting Kanter in the PnR" actually means on in the gamethread. It's not about the simple act of running a PnR. It comes down to whether the opposing team has the personnel to create a couple options:

1. Shoot the 3 directly off the pick. The Celtics ice most PnRs, even middle, against teams with the shooters to do this when Kanter is on the floor. Toronto has found some counters by running pre-actions to avoid these ices, but it's work.
2. Hit midrangers or floaters. Richardson and Ish Smith killed Kanter with this. This is the hardest to stop, and the time when he's closest to being played off the floor. The Celtics can do some stuff to limit the equity of these possessions by putting in more effort to bother the shot from behind, but it's tough.

The Lakers don't have the personnel to attack either off-the-dribble 3 or floater range. It's a big weakness of their roster as constructed, and I've mentioned it before in non-Celtics contexts. When they run up against teams like Boston that can just switch all LeBron/AD actions (go watch the video of their 4th quarter offense grinding to a halt on Christmas against LAC), their offense really gums up, because they don't have that jitterbug shoot+drive threat (think Kemba/Dame at the high end, VanVleet at the upper-mid end). It's a great matchup for Kanter, and I was realized surprised to see people in gamethread suggesting they'd "run him off the floor"--they have maybe the worst personnel of any good team for that purpose.

If you can roll out Kanter lineups that have Smart and 3 big wings, he stays pretty playable in most situations. The 4 plus defenders can do a lot to limit the equity of those PnR advantages: pursue better from behind, fight over screens, dig on drives, and you end up about breaking even.
Click to expand...
If the opposing 5 is incapable of pick/popping (not a 3pt threat) then Kanter is usually OK defensively. If the C's run the wing/little off the 3pt line and get beat on a challenged from behind, midrange floater so be it. The Celtics can live with that.
As far as yesterday, Dwight Howard isn't going to shoot from the perimeter. As long as the C's 1-4 went over his screen/pick, Kanter lagged off and was a deterrent to a drive or Howard roll to the rim.

IMO it's as simple as matching:
Theis up against the opponents' perimeter skilled 5s (Grant can help here).
Kanter against the beefier, more classic low post 5s.

I still feel the C's should add another cheap, experienced 5 to limit DT/EK minutes, keep them fresher, and give Brad more match up options/flexibility. Unless VP is that man or TL can get/stay healthy (?)
 
Last edited:
Koufax

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,946
In that regard, VP's minutes last night may be a sign that Brad is trying him out.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,240
benhogan said:
If the opposing 5 is incapable of pick/popping (not a 3pt threat) then Kanter is usually OK defensively. If the C's run the wing/little off the 3pt line and get beat on a challenged from behind, midrange floater so be it. The Celtics can live with that.
As far as yesterday, Dwight Howard isn't going to shoot from the perimeter. As long as the C's 1-4 went over his screen/pick, Kanter lagged off and was a deterrent to a drive or Howard roll to the rim.

IMO it's as simple as matching:
Theis up against the opponents' perimeter skilled 5s (Grant can help here).
Kanter against the beefier, more classic low post 5s.

I still feel the C's should add another cheap, experienced 5 to limit DT/EK minutes, keep them fresher, and give Brad more match up options/flexibility. Unless VP is that man or TL can get/stay healthy (?)
Click to expand...
It's a bit more nuanced than this: teams with good shooting guards have given Kanter a lot of trouble, regardless of the big's shooting. You can have the big re-screen until you get what you want. "Challenge from behind" is hard to execute consistently in practice. The Lakers suck in this regard: they don't have a guard with a really credible in-between game.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
lovegtm said:
It's a bit more nuanced than this: teams with good shooting guards have given Kanter a lot of trouble, regardless of the big's shooting. You can have the big re-screen until you get what you want. "Challenge from behind" is hard to execute consistently in practice. The Lakers suck in this regard: they don't have a guard with a really credible in-between game.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure Ish/JRich were on EK. The C's were probably more of a victim to hot shooting and condensed scheduling. YMMV

BUT I'll have to go back, look at the highlights and see how many times EK's PnR defense was the cause.
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,809
scottyno said:
@DeJesus Built My Hotrod Moving the Kanter discussion over here because I got a bit more info on the Kanter p+r situation though it's only a partial answer. After being confused by the numbers on nba.com I sent a tweet to synergy, and had a dm conversation with whoever it is they have handling that account, heres what I got:

-The 61% number is his offense p+r stats as the roller, the 31% is his defense when he stays home and defends the roll (not very often apparently, .9 times per game, still not sure what the frequency number means).

- According to whoever I talked to, teams actually run P+R at him about 9x more often where he switches than where he stays home, and on those plays where he ends up on the ball handler he allows 45% shooting. Not sure how many shots that is, how many ended in fouls, or what exactly it includes, this info isn't on NBA.com, the only way to get it is with a synergy subscription which I don't have, he just gave me that number.

I'm not sure if anywhere tracks publicly tracks possessions per player, but the Cs run about 103 possessions per game, so that's probably about 45 plays a game where he's on the court, so if those numbers are right teams run p+r at him about 20% of the time, which seems feasible. The field goal percentage part I'm not sure about, 31% and 45% both seem really good, but without any more context to the 45% (the majority of his plays), it's hard to really make anything of it. I don't even know if the 9x thing refers to how many shots, or just how often they run it at him, though I'm pretty sure it's not shots because he only defends 9.4 fgs a game overall (at a slightly below average level). I asked if those numbers meant he actually wasn't a bad p+r defender this year, and they said that they hadn't actually watched much of him this year so it was too complicated to say. I also asked if they laid out anywhere how they determined the primary defender on shots, and they said that wasn't available publicly anywhere, so really who knows, given that I'm pretty sure it's done by a bunch of people being paid minimumish wage.

So yeah, not sure if any of that makes anything clearer, and unless someone has a synergy account I'm not sure we'll get any more answers other than anecdotally. Team defense appears to be a bit worse when he's on than off (47-37 on vs 46-35 off with a slightly higher fta rate when he's on), metrics all say he's having a good defensive year, though they say that about most of the team as expected, and overall the team is better when he's on the court, obviously some of that is him only being put in situations where they expect him to suceed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the information. Too bad no one here has a synergy subcription, do they?

With regards to the bolded, that seems to me to be correct since the Cs usually use drop coverage with Kanter in the game with the guard/wing going over the screen. So saying that Kanter stays with his man one 1 of every 10 PnRs seems correct to me - that only happens if ballhandler doesn't use screen correctly and defender can get between screener and ball handler.

Of course the problem with the Cs PnR coverage with Kanter is that if the wing guy doesn't play it correctly, the roll man is open for lobs all night long.

(Side note: I wonder who gets dinged for these lobs in the statistical scoring?)

BTW, 538 has Kanter 6th among Cs in overall total RAPTOR. He's 3rd on offense, which isn't surprising but among centers he's 17th in defensive RAPTOR, which sounds about right given the way Brad has used him. By defensive RAPTOR, he's humorously tied with Al, and he's ahead of such guys as Adebayo, Vucevic, Tristan Thompson, KAT, Steven Adams, The Is, Ibaka, Sabonis, Baynes, and Myles Turner, just to name a few.

By WAR, he's 20th overall according to 538.
 
Last edited:
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
BTW, 538 has Kanter 6th among Cs in overall total RAPTOR. He's 3rd on offense, which isn't surprising but among centers he's 17th in defensive RAPTOR, which sounds about right given the way Brad has used him. By defensive RAPTOR, he's humorously tied with Al, and he's ahead of such guys as Adebayo, Vucevic, Tristan Thompson, KAT, Steven Adams, The Is, Ibaka, Sabonis, Baynes, and Myles Turner, just to name a few.

By WAR, he's 20th overall according to 538.
Click to expand...
The bolded is pretty funny.

Over the years, CBS has done a great job of getting the most out of his flawed 5s/BIGs (ie Humphries, Zeller, Sullinger, Olynyk, Amir, Baynes, Theis and now Kanter). Brad has used shortened minutes, advantageous matchups, specific roles to mix/match his way through his seasons. Last season was really the first time he primarily used a high priced 5 (Horford) for the vast majority of the Center minutes.

With most of the teams' future salary cap going to Kemba, GH, JB, and JT the Celtics are in good shape going with cheap, multi-player 5 approach with Brad at the helm.
 
RetractableRoof

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
benhogan said:
The bolded is pretty funny.

Over the years, CBS has done a great job of getting the most out of his flawed 5s/BIGs (ie Humphries, Zeller, Sullinger, Olynyk, Amir, Baynes, Theis and now Kanter). Brad has used shortened minutes, advantageous matchups, specific roles to mix/match his way through his seasons. Last season was really the first time he primarily used a high priced 5 (Horford) for the vast majority of the Center minutes.

With most of the teams' future salary cap going to Kemba, GH, JB, and JT the Celtics are in good shape going with cheap, multi-player 5 approach with Brad at the helm.
Click to expand...
You shut your mouth... what flaws does Baynes have? Dopes, this man's account has been hacked!
 
RetractableRoof

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
lovegtm said:
...
The Lakers don't have the personnel to attack either off-the-dribble 3 or floater range. It's a big weakness of their roster as constructed, and I've mentioned it before in non-Celtics contexts. When they run up against teams like Boston that can just switch all LeBron/AD actions (go watch the video of their 4th quarter offense grinding to a halt on Christmas against LAC), their offense really gums up, because they don't have that jitterbug shoot+drive threat (think Kemba/Dame at the high end, VanVleet at the upper-mid end). It's a great matchup for Kanter, and I was realized surprised to see people in gamethread suggesting they'd "run him off the floor"--they have maybe the worst personnel of any good team for that purpose.
...
Click to expand...
I don't agree with this assessment. Both Avery and Rondo are more than capable of running a version of the PnR where a healthy (game ready) Davis or McGee roll for a little lob and finish. Rondo specifically showed last night that he is still capable of making a team pay for not defending him by maneuvering among the trees for layups. He had hesitated in driving like that when here due to his free throw issues. I'm not saying they are ideal, but their athleticism at the 5 is enough to run/play him off the floor if they hunt him - which they would during a playoff game for example. Could that be offset by the Cs in some way, sure.

I'm more concerned about the rumors of the LAL or 76ers trying to get their hands on Rose. If either do, it changes things dramatically for them and for the Lakers they change from being able to do it, to being deadly with it.
 
chilidawg

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
5,987
Cultural hub of the universe
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
Danny says NO. Kanter's right, Perk is on drugs. No interest in costly Centers like Adams, Drummond, Love, Tristen Thompson, Whiteside, Gasol etc.
You'll be able to pick up one of the bolded on the cheap this summer in free agency.

Kanter + Theis is productive/efficient, no need to change that strategy.

The problems I see with Kanter + Theis: injury, in-game foul trouble, 76ers, overuse during regular-season. Still feel that Danny should look to add a cheap, veteran 5 (Poltl, WCS, Noel, etc) to create a 3-headed monster. TL is an answer but I don't trust his health. If Kings wave the white flag, then Danny should step it up and make an aggressive play for Bjelica or Holmes (probably wish casting on my part)

With Kanter out tonight I want to see what we have with VP, play him for 5 mins per half and see if he can contribute. I'm a hair optimistic since Brad doesn't ask a lot out of the 5 other than effort. If VP fails then he should be used as ballast/filler for a usable veteran 5. Danny still has 2-weeks to analyze and make a move. Failing that he has the buyout market.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,240
benhogan said:
Danny says NO. Kanter's right, Perk is on drugs. No interest in costly Centers like Adams, Drummond, Love, Tristen Thompson, Whiteside, Gasol etc.
You'll be able to pick up one of the bolded on the cheap this summer in free agency.

Kanter + Theis is productive/efficient, no need to change that strategy.

The problems I see with Kanter + Theis: injury, in-game foul trouble, 76ers, overuse during regular-season. Still feel that Danny should look to add a cheap, veteran 5 (Poltl, WCS, Noel, etc) to create a 3-headed monster. A healthy TL is an answer but I don't trust his health. If Kings wave the white flag, then Danny should step it up and make an aggressive play for Bjelica or Holmes (probably wish casting on my part)

With Kanter out tonight I want to see what we have with VP, play him for 5 mins per half and see if he can contribute. I'm a hair optimistic since Brad doesn't ask a lot out of the 5 other than effort. If VP fails then he should be used as ballast/filler for a usable veteran 5. Danny still has 2-weeks to analyze and make a move. Failing that he has the buyout market.
Click to expand...
We can take a look at VP, but he's looked nearly unplayable against NBA players.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
lovegtm said:
We can take a look at VP, but he's looked nearly unplayable against NBA players.
Click to expand...
I trust the Celtics know what they have in VP. Don't believe they would have inked him for 2yrs if he was unplayable. They have had some recent modest success in finding role players from European leagues (Theis, Larkin, Wanamaker, Green). So I'll stay optimistic unless he gets constantly beat defensively over the next 2 weeks. The training wheels need to come off at some point.

That being said I'd still add the cheap, vet 5 in a heartbeat - which would save the game thread from hand wringing every time VP checks in.
 
Last edited:
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,240
benhogan said:
I trust the Celtics know what they have in VP. Don't believe they would have inked him for 2yrs if he was unplayable. They have had some recent modest success in finding role players from European leagues (Theis, Larkin, Wanamaker, Green). So I'll stay optimistic unless he gets constantly beat defensively over the next 2 weeks. The training wheels need to come off at some point.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you're optimistic. He's literally been behind every single other player on the depth chart. He might be lower than Tacko. They see VP in practice all the time, and Brad clearly thinks he's total garbage.

They've done a good job with overseas players, but sometimes you miss.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
lovegtm said:
I'm not sure why you're optimistic. He's literally been behind every single other player on the depth chart. He might be lower than Tacko. They see VP in practice all the time, and Brad clearly thinks he's total garbage.

They've done a good job with overseas players, but sometimes you miss.
Click to expand...
Brad is great at not letting his 5s get too exposed. It wasn't very long ago when I read about AB being below average and Theis being an unplayable hacker. Kanter, was supposed to be the worse defensive center in the NBA and Brad has figured out a way to make him playable.

They could have grabbed Chriss for nothing to replace VP, as the 4th stringer, if they wanted to cut bait. Also, have to think WCS could be had for not much? Dallas gets WCS for a late 2nd round pick. A veteran, bench 5 has to be the cheapest asset to acquire in the trade market.

Either way, VP is taking up some valuable roster real estate and we should see if he or Tacko are playable.

If Brad goes exclusively with Theis/GW at the 5 tonight against a large Vucevic, then you're probably right and they should just move on from VP.
 
Last edited:
Imbricus

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,878
He's painfully slow with hands made of clay. I wouldn't have guessed he was this bad from his highlight reels; he looked almost nimble there, swooping in for loud dunks. Part of the problem is it looks like most of the dunking he's been doing lately is at Dunkin' Donuts. He's gotten a little beefy, and that may be slowing him down.
 
Imbricus

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
4,878
Anyone seeing any updates on Kanter's injury? Hip injuries are always concerning. I looked around the internet and couldn't find much, except that he was hobbling around a few days ago. This didn't sound good:
At the Boston Celtics’ shoot around on Thursday, Enes Kanter appeared to be in a fair amount of pain as he hobbled through drills with Celtics assistant coach Jordan Bachynski.
Click to expand...
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
Imbricus said:
Anyone seeing any updates on Kanter's injury? Hip injuries are always concerning. I looked around the internet and couldn't find much, except that he was hobbling around a few days ago. This didn't sound good:
Click to expand...
yikes, that vid isn't good. I'm always concerned about 5s health since they take more pounding, in-game than the perimeter players.

After watching that, I wouldn't be surprised if he had to sit out the next 6 games and the All-Star break. 3 additional weeks.
 
bigq

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,188
If that is the case having TL and Enes out until after the ASB would force playing time for VP and Fall unless there is another roster move coming. Hope Theis stays healthy.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,240
bigq said:
If that is the case having TL and Enes out until after the ASB would force playing time for VP and Fall unless there is another roster move coming. Hope Theis stays healthy.
Click to expand...
There better be a fucking roster move coming. Leaving VP on this team is borderline malpractice. He's not playable.
 
Jimbodandy

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,527
around the way
The more that I see GW playing substitute center, the more OK I am with sending a half decent pick and VP out the door for Bjelica. He's not a real big, but he can play with Grant and we'll still have a role for Kanter when he returns.
 
Koufax

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,946
The shot to the package was substantial. Give the man a break!
 
RetractableRoof

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
Didn't he play with Westbrook and Harden??? Early versions, but still. And then that quote is sooooo direct from the mouth of Mr. Chemistry. What the hell kind of teammate is he... or maybe he just doesn't care. Damn.
 
Koufax

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,946
It turns out that the only person with a higher 3-point shooting percentage on the 2015-16 Thunder, the last year that KD was there, was . . . . Enes Kanter.
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,809
RetractableRoof said:
Didn't he play with Westbrook and Harden??? Early versions, but still. And then that quote is sooooo direct from the mouth of Mr. Chemistry. What the hell kind of teammate is he... or maybe he just doesn't care. Damn.
Click to expand...
And Ibaka.

No one else could make shots because after RW and KD there weren’t any shots to be had.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,368
Santa Monica
cheap, situational, veteran 5

no-brainer of a signing, nice work by PBS

really like this offseason, if I was to nitpick I'd rather they traded TT straight up for Delon Wright or kept Moses over Fernando
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom