Emmanuel Mudiay and the future of NBA talent

Grin&MartyBarret · Jul 22, 2014

I suspect this route is going to become much more popular now that the ridiculousness of the NCAA has begun to become a pretty widely held belief.

The NBA really should work to develop a system where players like Mudiay can get paid reasonably well in the D-League instead of forcing these guys abroad. I'm sure front offices would much prefer guys having guys like this in their own development system. Of course, I'm not sure the owners will be willing to pay for it.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 22, 2014

18-year olds in a foreign country with no support system, veteran countrymen who the player has nothing in common with, limited playing time and tons of free time. What could possibly go wrong?

Gotta have your fingers crossed for this kid as most will end up leaving their team halfway through the season like Tyler rather than sticking it out like Jennings. It's a damn shame it's come down to this but it's his own doing by attending a non-accredited high school (same as Ricky Ledo in Dallas). Bad bad advisors steering these kids the wrong way. He should be at SMU in a structured program with daily structure.....not running clueless in China.

Devizier · Jul 22, 2014

God, I hope this is the beginning of the end for Mark Emmert.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 22, 2014

bowiac said:
You really think he's better off at SMU than making $1.2M (assuming the report is correct?) in China? That seems bizarre to me.

I see the argument that he may not develop as well, but it still seems like a stretch given the prospect of an immediate payday.

Obviously it's a better short term return which is essentially what a veterans minimum contract is. Does an 18-year old really benefit from a little premature payday which there are no guarantees of being paid in that environment where nobody there has his best interests at hand?

It's very dangerous for a kid as we saw with Tyler.

Vegas Sox Fan · Jul 22, 2014

Just throwing crap against the wall here, but what if the NBA changed the rule to 2 and done but held a separate draft for the early eligibles and allowed the teams to sign those kids to development contracts. The NCAA would have to change their amateur rules but that would allow these kids to get paid by NBA teams while developing at the NCAA level or D-League if they want to go that route.

Grin&MartyBarret · Jul 22, 2014

bowiac said:
It's hard to imagine the finances will support it at the D-League level, although it's possible that 18-year old talent level just isn't high enough for this to be a long term option in Europe/Asia. Jennings barely saw the court in his year abroad. Tyler had his own struggles.

In other words, maybe there's a limiting demand factor from the foreign pro teams, and Mudiay, Jennings and Tyler are weird one-offs.

I think you could likely work out some sort of system that would allow players of Mudiay's caliber to get paid reasonably well while playing in the D-League, but I don't think it's possible without the NBA breaking their commitment to the NCAA, which is unlikely given the financial implications (namely that they get a free minor league system). However, if they were willing to take that step, I could see a scenario where a guy like Mudiay is drafted out of high school, given a signing bonus (somewhere in the ballpark of 1.2 million, perhaps) and his rights are held by the team that drafted him for 2 years. The logistics would be complicated to sort out, obviously, but the real shame in this is that a kid like this has so few options when a corrupt organization like the NCAA decides he's not eligible. Folks can blame his advisors all they want, but Emmanuel Mudiay will eventually be an NBA player, and it's sort of ridiculous to me that the system insists he keep up the guise of striving for a college education that he has no intention to use or complete.

Grin&MartyBarret · Jul 22, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
Obviously it's a better short term return which is essentially what a veterans minimum contract is. Does an 18-year old really benefit from a little premature payday which there are no guarantees of being paid in that environment where nobody there has his best interests at hand?

It's very dangerous for a kid as we saw with Tyler.

How much money did you make before your 24th birthday? Because to date, Jeremy Tyler's made $2,396,488 plus whatever he was paid in Israel and Japan. I'm not sure "dangerous" is really the word here. You're making an assumption that Tyler would have developed more in his senior year of high school and freshman year at Louisville than he did playing professionally in Israel and Japan, and there's no real evidence that that's the case.

Edit: Oops, beaten to it.

ALiveH · Jul 22, 2014

this is a no-brainer. living abroad as an American is a ton of fun & you learn 100x more (not just culture / language but also everyday living smarts) than at some mediocre college. Even moreso as a millionaire athlete teenager. These are professional teams as they gain more experience with American teenagers they can improve the support network. Also, the kids are making more than enough money that they can bring 1-2 family members with them.

I really hope this becomes a trend and crushes the exploitative and abusive NCAA system (the triumph of free market forces!).

moly99 · Jul 22, 2014

ALiveH said:
this is a no-brainer. living abroad as an American is a ton of fun & you learn 100x more (not just culture / language but also everyday living smarts) than at some mediocre college. Even moreso as a millionaire athlete teenager.

This part is very important. Let's not kid ourselves. Athletic programs have set up systems where athletes are not doing much learning and studying anyway. Are people going to learn more sleeping in class than they would playing in Europe or China?

Lose Remerswaal · Jul 22, 2014

ALiveH said:
this is a no-brainer. living abroad as an American is a ton of fun & you learn 100x more (not just culture / language but also everyday living smarts) than at some mediocre college. Even moreso as a millionaire athlete teenager. These are professional teams as they gain more experience with American teenagers they can improve the support network. Also, the kids are making more than enough money that they can bring 1-2 family members with them.

I really hope this becomes a trend and crushes the exploitative and abusive NCAA system (the triumph of free market forces!).

moly99 said:
This part is very important. Let's not kid ourselves. Athletic programs have set up systems where athletes are not doing much learning and studying anyway. Are people going to learn more sleeping in class than they would playing in Europe or China?

They learn overseas and get exposed to culture overseas if they WANT to learn and be exposed to culture. I question whether the kid who goes to China or Europe or wherever to play basketball is also going to take time to see the Great Wall or go to the Vatican or the Louvre or do anything locally.

This past March I was in Iceland. Found ourselves at a restaurant with a young black woman who was obviously American (the LSU tracksuit was a giveaway, as was the hamburger she ordered at this seafood place). We ended up talking to her for awhile. It was her birthday and she was eating at this restaurant alone.

She was playing professional women's basketball in Iceland, as that was what her agent set up for her. She had been there 3 months, played about 30 games, and other than road trips with her team, had basically never gone more than 300 yards from the hotel she was staying in. Hadn't seen any of the waterfalls ("I guess I should do that"). Hadn't been to the Blue Lagoon spa (about 3 miles away), didn't even know what it was. Hadn't been to any of the other sites. Just played, practiced, ate, and slept.

Tony C · Jul 22, 2014

That's likely much more the reality than pie in the sky stuff about the joys of being a teenager overseas. Not to say that earning some millions doesn't make it worth it, but let's not get crazy about it, either.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 22, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
How much money did you make before your 24th birthday? Because to date, Jeremy Tyler's made $2,396,488 plus whatever he was paid in Israel and Japan. I'm not sure "dangerous" is really the word here. You're making an assumption that Tyler would have developed more in his senior year of high school and freshman year at Louisville than he did playing professionally in Israel and Japan, and there's no real evidence that that's the case.

Edit: Oops, beaten to it.

Yeah Tyler loved Israel so much that he ran home after less than 3 months. There isn't evidence since he didn't play his senior year in HS or his freshman year in college, arguably two of your most crucial developmental seasons as a player/young adult. Instead he was where nobody cared about him just as Jennings states below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/sports/basketball/08tyler.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Jennings himself a supposed "success story" warns others about doing this based on a number of issues many of which I mentioned as well as never getting paid on time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/24/sports/basketball/24recruit.html

redsahx · Jul 22, 2014

They learn overseas and get exposed to culture overseas if they WANT to learn and be exposed to culture. I question whether the kid who goes to China or Europe or wherever to play basketball is also going to take time to see the Great Wall or go to the Vatican or the Louvre or do anything locally.

This past March I was in Iceland. Found ourselves at a restaurant with a young black woman who was obviously American (the LSU tracksuit was a giveaway, as was the hamburger she ordered at this seafood place). We ended up talking to her for awhile. It was her birthday and she was eating at this restaurant alone.

She was playing professional women's basketball in Iceland, as that was what her agent set up for her. She had been there 3 months, played about 30 games, and other than road trips with her team, had basically never gone more than 300 yards from the hotel she was staying in. Hadn't seen any of the waterfalls ("I guess I should do that"). Hadn't been to the Blue Lagoon spa (about 3 miles away), didn't even know what it was. Hadn't been to any of the other sites. Just played, practiced, ate, and slept.

This. While studying abroad can be a great experience, it usually comes at least a couple of years into college. There is a big difference between 18-19, and 20-22. I also believe most kids who go through such a program get some preparation before hand, and are following a pretty structured plan once they are there (at least that was the case for me). How many 18-year old NBA prospects straight out of high school can handle living alone in China? I guess for the right money they can have a close relative move over there with them, but it would be massive culture shock. If they make it through, it could be a great experience, but I'm not sure how most people would process that.

I love the Iceland example. I had a chance to go over there for work and as far as foreign experiences go, that would be relatively easy for an American kid. Even though most of the street signs are in Icelandic Viking text, pretty much everyone speaks some English, and there's virtually no crime. Contrast that with living in a densely packed place like Shanghai or Istanbul, where I'd think there would be even more of a tendancy for some kids to want to avoid straying far from their living hole. I'm also guessing this American girl was a college grad, not someone just out of prep school.

Grin&MartyBarret · Jul 22, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
Yeah Tyler loved Israel so much that he ran home after less than 3 months. There isn't evidence since he didn't play his senior year in HS or his freshman year in college, arguably two of your most crucial developmental seasons as a player/young adult. Instead he was where nobody cared about him just as Jennings states below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/sports/basketball/08tyler.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Jennings himself a supposed "success story" warns others about doing this based on a number of issues many of which I mentioned as well as never getting paid on time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/24/sports/basketball/24recruit.html

Huh? I pointed out that there's no real evidence that Tyler would have developed better in college, and you respond by telling me why there isn't any evidence. Thanks, I guess?

And nobody claimed he loved Israel or Japan. The question is about what's better for him financially and in terms of basketball development. It's a perfectly reasonable question. We have no idea if another year in high school and a year at Louisville would have been better for him. But we do know that he's 23 years old and has made upwards of 2.5 million dollars in his career, and that alone makes it worthwhile to question your designation of his decision as "dangerous."

moly99 · Jul 22, 2014

Lose Remerswaal said:
They learn overseas and get exposed to culture overseas if they WANT to learn and be exposed to culture. I question whether the kid who goes to China or Europe or wherever to play basketball is also going to take time to see the Great Wall or go to the Vatican or the Louvre or do anything locally.

This past March I was in Iceland. Found ourselves at a restaurant with a young black woman who was obviously American (the LSU tracksuit was a giveaway, as was the hamburger she ordered at this seafood place). We ended up talking to her for awhile. It was her birthday and she was eating at this restaurant alone.

She was playing professional women's basketball in Iceland, as that was what her agent set up for her. She had been there 3 months, played about 30 games, and other than road trips with her team, had basically never gone more than 300 yards from the hotel she was staying in. Hadn't seen any of the waterfalls ("I guess I should do that"). Hadn't been to the Blue Lagoon spa (about 3 miles away), didn't even know what it was. Hadn't been to any of the other sites. Just played, practiced, ate, and slept.

I have a cousin who plays in Germany professionally and it's much the same. The thing is, though, that a basketball player needs to learn how to play basketball and navigate the business aspect of being a player. They don't need to learn much about impressionist art or philosophy. Playing overseas is a better education for how to succeed as a professional basketball player than playing for SMU.

When you add in the fact that athletes with NBA potential have much of their work done by tutors in college and won't be getting a degree anyway I just don't see what benefit they would get for staying.

Grin&MartyBarret · Jul 22, 2014

Lose Remerswaal said:
They learn overseas and get exposed to culture overseas if they WANT to learn and be exposed to culture. I question whether the kid who goes to China or Europe or wherever to play basketball is also going to take time to see the Great Wall or go to the Vatican or the Louvre or do anything locally.

This past March I was in Iceland. Found ourselves at a restaurant with a young black woman who was obviously American (the LSU tracksuit was a giveaway, as was the hamburger she ordered at this seafood place). We ended up talking to her for awhile. It was her birthday and she was eating at this restaurant alone.

She was playing professional women's basketball in Iceland, as that was what her agent set up for her. She had been there 3 months, played about 30 games, and other than road trips with her team, had basically never gone more than 300 yards from the hotel she was staying in. Hadn't seen any of the waterfalls ("I guess I should do that"). Hadn't been to the Blue Lagoon spa (about 3 miles away), didn't even know what it was. Hadn't been to any of the other sites. Just played, practiced, ate, and slept.

I get that this is meant to be an argument against the idea of athletes learning and growing from the cultural experience of living abroad, but it simultaneously functions as an argument against the idea that playing professionally abroad doesn't provide structure. The woman you met did nothing but focus on basketball. If Mundiay lives similarly, it doesn't seem like that's necessarily a bad thing to me. Maybe a squandered opportunity, but not the worst thing in the world either.

redsahx · Jul 22, 2014

When you add in the fact that athletes with NBA potential have much of their work done by tutors in college and won't be getting a degree anyway I just don't see what benefit they would get for staying.

I think the key issue here is how many kids will seriously consider this option to the point that the NCAA product would start getting impacted. There is no doubt that it could be a great experience and a great decision for some people. There is a huge difference though between the kids who graduate college then go on to play professionally in Europe or elsewhere, vs. someone making that transition 4 years earlier in life, and choosing to play overseas INSTEAD of doing college. How many will seriously consider this route? The NCAA still provides more opportunity for exposure, and the opportunity to play overseas won't necessarily go away if there are issues at school or you don't catch on with an NBA team once you're eligible

HomeRunBaker · Jul 22, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
Huh? I pointed out that there's no real evidence that Tyler would have developed better in college, and you respond by telling me why there isn't any evidence. Thanks, I guess?

And nobody claimed he loved Israel or Japan. The question is about what's better for him financially and in terms of basketball development. It's a perfectly reasonable question. We have no idea if another year in high school and a year at Louisville would have been better for him. But we do know that he's 23 years old and has made upwards of 2.5 million dollars in his career, and that alone makes it worthwhile to question your designation of his decision as "dangerous."

It's not reasonable to question his development overseas. Tyler was there for less than 3 months, barely got paid, didn't play, hardly practiced, then sat on his ass at home getting fat and out of shape for a year. If you have an agenda you won't let go of rather than being open minded to what occurred to two prominent 18-year old prospect than I suppose you can still question it. Most reasonable people recognize Tyler gained nothing and lost prime growth years.

Lol @2.3m he's earned in the past 4 years. That's the minimum Tyler could have possibly earned yet you use this as justification for wasting key years that "could" have multiplied this number. Stop please stop!

Lose Remerswaal · Jul 22, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
I get that this is meant to be an argument against the idea of athletes learning and growing from the cultural experience of living abroad, but it simultaneously functions as an argument against the idea that playing professionally abroad doesn't provide structure. The woman you met did nothing but focus on basketball. If Mundiay lives similarly, it doesn't seem like that's necessarily a bad thing to me. Maybe a squandered opportunity, but not the worst thing in the world either.

yes, it's an argument against learning and growing from the cultural experience. It's also a comment on her failure to develop relationships with her teammates (all of whom were natives) as she was eating alone on her birthday. I imagine, having never played team sports beyond High School, that developing relationships with your teammates is an important part of growing in a team sport.

Devizier · Jul 22, 2014

Whatever the personal costs and/or benefits of playing abroad out of high school, the professional benefits are as real as they get.

fairlee76 · Jul 22, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
It's not reasonable to question his development overseas. Tyler was there for less than 3 months, barely got paid, didn't play, hardly practiced, then sat on his ass at home getting fat and out of shape for a year. If you have an agenda you won't let go of rather than being open minded to what occurred to two prominent 18-year old prospect than I suppose you can still question it. Most reasonable people recognize Tyler gained nothing and lost prime growth years.

Lol @2.3m he's earned in the past 4 years. That's the minimum Tyler could have possibly earned yet you use this as justification for wasting key years that "could" have multiplied this number. Stop please stop!

IIRC, Tyler was a mess way before he went overseas. There is certainly no guarantee that his going to college and playing basketball there for a year would have led to him multiplying the $2.3M he has already earned.

I kind of get the isolation argument. But, shit, Mudiay is going to make $1.2M for his 8 months abroad. From what I have read, that is money that his family needs and certainly well worth a few lonely months. If he so chooses, he can explore a new culture. Otherwise, he can make a handsome salary to play a game and then, in all likelihood, make real money come October 2015.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 22, 2014

bowiac said:
The minimum he could have earned is $0. I don't know what percent of top 30 prospects as juniors make it in the NBA, but I'd guess a substantial chunk of them do not.

That's ridiculous to actually believe he would have made $0 had he played his senior year in HS. Tyler didn't play for a year and half of his prime years yet teams were going to pay him the minimum for his size/upside. He was out of shape, fat and on his couch yet still made this. Had he taken the conventional approach at worst he was still going to receive these same minimum contract opportunities at the very worst.

Grin&MartyBarret · Jul 22, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
It's not reasonable to question his development overseas. Tyler was there for less than 3 months, barely got paid, didn't play, hardly practiced, then sat on his ass at home getting fat and out of shape for a year. If you have an agenda you won't let go of rather than being open minded to what occurred to two prominent 18-year old prospect than I suppose you can still question it. Most reasonable people recognize Tyler gained nothing and lost prime growth years.

Lol @2.3m he's earned in the past 4 years. That's the minimum Tyler could have possibly earned yet you use this as justification for wasting key years that "could" have multiplied this number. Stop please stop!

I think you have your facts wrong on Tyler. He left Israel early, but then went to Japan and played 33 games before the tsunami wiped out the rest of the season. Both were disappointing stops given the expectations, but there's no guarantee Louisville would have been any better off for him. He still very well may have ended up as a second round pick, and had the exact same career he's had thus far. It's possible that he was just one of the many overrated top 100 recruits. This may have been his ceiling all along; we don't know what we don't know. Maybe questioning that "gives me an agenda" but no more so than your insisting that he would definitely have earned more had he gone to college.

As for Jennings, his experience was much different than Tyler's. He played at a top level club, and his complaints can be boiled down to "I'm surprised I'm not good enough to be a star in a top European league." However he did play 17 minutes a game against a caliber of competition he wouldn't have faced in NCAA basketball, and practiced twice a day against better players everyday. He then became a top 10 pick. It was a tough road for him, and he was challenged constantly, but you could very easily make the case that it was good for him. Here are some quotes from him:

"I know what they have all been saying, because I even heard it from my friends, that I'm going to be a bust. And a whole different culture is going to mess up my game," Jennings said. "I would've loved to have gone to college, and I'm sure I would've learned a lot there, but I'm learning a lot more over here."

"We just got back from a three-day road trip to Serbia, and it was three days on the road with older guys, where I had to work to fit in," Jennings said. "This is the pro life. Nobody is babysitting me. The biggest thing for me is this: I have to prove myself. I want to let these guys know that I'm here to help them win. I don't want them to think that I'm just some hotshot American kid trying to take all the shine here so I can set myself up for the NBA draft.

"Here, it isn't like what basketball was in the U.S., where everyone just sits back and watches the individual player. It's team first here. People come to watch the team play, and the team win. What I want to do is build relationships with my teammates, with my coaches. That's what people are wondering if I can do …"

So I'm not sure he really fits into the idea that these moves have been universally bad. Tyler's decision obviously didn't work out the way he wanted it to, but I have a hard time seeing the argument that Jennings fits into that.

crystalline · Jul 22, 2014

The NBA could add a provision to the next CBA to exclude foreign players, or put them in a different draft pool with lower allocated salary, correct?
The NCAA should be lobbying hard for that.

Personally I think paying players for playing abroad is an excellent solution to the problems of NCAA control of minor league athletes.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 22, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
Maybe questioning that "gives me an agenda" but no more so than your insisting that he would definitely have earned more had he gone to college.

Right. Because this is what I've been insisting. Why do i even bother. Smh.

Grin&MartyBarret · Jul 22, 2014

HomeRunBaker said:
Right. Because this is what I've been insisting. Why do i even bother. Smh.

HomeRunBaker said:
It's not reasonable to question his development overseas. Tyler was there for less than 3 months, barely got paid, didn't play, hardly practiced, then sat on his ass at home getting fat and out of shape for a year. If you have an agenda you won't let go of rather than being open minded to what occurred to two prominent 18-year old prospect than I suppose you can still question it. Most reasonable people recognize Tyler gained nothing and lost prime growth years.

Lol @2.3m he's earned in the past 4 years. That's the minimum Tyler could have possibly earned yet you use this as justification for wasting key years that "could" have multiplied this number. Stop please stop!

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your use of quotation marks. Are you actually quoting something? Otherwise, it seems an awful lot like wrapping quotation marks around the word "could" is a cheeky and fun way of insisting he'd have made more money if he'd gone to college in the US.

Kliq · Jul 22, 2014

I know money talks, obviously, but I also think there is still a certain amount of value derived from playing college basketball for these kids. I think some kids at least are still interested in dressing up for Duke and being coached by Coach K, even if it means forgoing a possible paycheck overseas.

The biggest thing, imo, is that these are still 18 year old kids who value staying close to home. If you looks at a lot of the top prospects and where they end up going, many go to schools close to home. If you ask them why they chose there school, a lot of them will say it was in part because it was close to home.

ALiveH · Jul 22, 2014

Jennings + Tyler + some anecdotal womens' player in Iceland = small sample size!

Clearly, we need to send more kids overseas to get a better data sample.

But in all seriousness, I think these kids should be making money as soon as people are willing to pay to see them play. Any delay just sacrifices some of their prime earning years for the benefit of some corrupt collusive organization.

moly99 · Jul 22, 2014

redsahx said:
There is a huge difference though between the kids who graduate college then go on to play professionally in Europe or elsewhere, vs. someone making that transition 4 years earlier in life, and choosing to play overseas INSTEAD of doing college.

In this case we are only talking about the players who know they are going to be pros. The guys who are going to get a degree that will let them move on to an MBA or law school are getting a good deal from the NCAA. The guys who are just fulfilling their obligations in college so they can jump to the NBA are getting screwed over.

The NBA really needs to let players get signed directly to the D league in order to fulfill their year of obligation. That fixes (almost) everything.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 23, 2014

Grin&MartyBarret said:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your use of quotation marks. Are you actually quoting something? Otherwise, it seems an awful lot like wrapping quotation marks around the word "could" is a cheeky and fun way of insisting he'd have made more money if he'd gone to college in the US.

Poor use of quotation marks sorry for confusion using iPhone. Should have put in CAPS to stress the word instead.

TheRooster · Jul 23, 2014

I'm with HRB on this one. How much of the $1.2M is going to make it into the kid's bank account this year? I'd guess no more than $250k. Now layer in the multitude of things that could go really wrong over there, including injury with questionable treatment. If he's really a top talent, he'd be better offer going one-and-done at SMU or any of 50 US schools. As for paying D-League players substantially more, that just lowers profits for NBA teams, so I'm not holding my breath. The NCAA provides free minor leagues for the NBA and the NFL.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 23, 2014

TheRooster said:
I'm with HRB on this one. How much of the $1.2M is going to make it into the kid's bank account this year? I'd guess no more than $250k. Now layer in the multitude of things that could go really wrong over there, including injury with questionable treatment. If he's really a top talent, he'd be better offer going one-and-done at SMU or any of 50 US schools. As for paying D-League players substantially more, that just lowers profits for NBA teams, so I'm not holding my breath. The NCAA provides free minor leagues for the NBA and the NFL.

I appreciate the support of my position but let me further clarify (without use of quotations).

Mudiay is not going by choice......he isn't the guy people are saying "Good for him in screwing over the evil NCAA" (shit I lied about quotations). He WANTS to play for Brown at SMU however is going overseas because he or an advisor decided it was a good idea to attend a non-accredited high school that Deion Sanders recently founded (and is now being shut down by Texas education system)......what could possibly go wrong here? They saw this direction make Ben McLemore and then Ricky Ledo ineligible yet still went that route.

My position is on future players ----passing up their NCAA eligibility---- to willingly play overseas. To me this is NOT the best route for an 18-year old looking to grow as a basketball player for reasons I've stated and re-stated in the Tyler and Jennings pieces posted yesterday.

I am in favor of the NBA taking a step back from their agreement with the NCAA and making the NBDL a true minor league........

* Allow high schoolers (I'd go as far as juniors) to be eligible for the NBA Draft complete with current draft slot salaries. Those elite players get paid without having to travel to unknown places to play for unknown coaches/unknown teammstes who don't have the kids best interest at hand.

* Improve current pay structure of the NBDL to commensurate with overseas for these kids while giving them a true support system.

* Ensure 30 NBDL franchises with a true affiliate program similar to minor league baseball. This also allows teams to fill their NBDL roster with quality character veterans wishing to continue playing, wanting another NBA shot, get into coaching/mentoring. Coaching staff is owned/paid by parent team to run similar system......god knows these teams have PLENTY of assistant coaches to fill these slots.
.
* Implement an NBA experience requirement essentially meaning high schoolers would play 2 seasons in the NBDL before their team can call them up. If they are drafted they still receive their guarantee so no "right to earn living" laws are threatened. Those bypassing their HS senior year would have to play 3 years and complete courses necessary to graduate HS.

There's more but this is the gist of my idea. The league dumped a ton of money into the WNBA and they could recoup money (earn money?) from television contracts. Imagine the demand to see Wiggins, Parker, etc play last year in the NBDL?

TheRooster · Jul 23, 2014

bow, I figure taxes take 600k, agents/lawyers take 120k leaving him with 480k before he deals with getting to/from China several times, never mind flying relatives over there and generally pissing away 100k-200k (as most of us would at that age). And the sad truth is that if things don't go well, he won't even have the $250k in a couple of years. I'm still scarred by the "Broke" 30for30.

HRB, I 100% get the logic but I am too cynical to expect it to happen anytime soon. The Coach Cals of the world will fight that plan with every ounce of their beings. And lots of ADs and boosters will help them fight.

crystalline · Jul 23, 2014

I think the NCAA exploits players but I don't think making the D-League a true minor league is the answer. NCAA football and basketball make extraordinary amounts of money. Baseball's minor league teams make little and their players are paid peanuts.

Moving the NBA minors from the NCAA to the d-league has the potential to destroy a lot of revenue earning ability. I suppose top draftees would still get paid, as in baseball.
The hard part is how you keep the total profits the same.

Infield Infidel · Jul 23, 2014

TheRooster said:
bow, I figure taxes take 600k, agents/lawyers take 120k leaving him with 480k before he deals with getting to/from China several times, never mind flying relatives over there and generally pissing away 100k-200k (as most of us would at that age). And the sad truth is that if things don't go well, he won't even have the $250k in a couple of years. I'm still scarred by the "Broke" 30for30.

HRB, I 100% get the logic but I am too cynical to expect it to happen anytime soon. The Coach Cals of the world will fight that plan with every ounce of their beings. And lots of ADs and boosters will help them fight.

Do we know if the $1.2m isn't net, post-tax? Jennings deal was net in Italy, but every country lists the amount differently

HomeRunBaker · Jul 23, 2014

TheRooster said:
bow, I figure taxes take 600k, agents/lawyers take 120k leaving him with 480k before he deals with getting to/from China several times, never mind flying relatives over there and generally pissing away 100k-200k (as most of us would at that age). And the sad truth is that if things don't go well, he won't even have the $250k in a couple of years. I'm still scarred by the "Broke" 30for30.

HRB, I 100% get the logic but I am too cynical to expect it to happen anytime soon. The Coach Cals of the world will fight that plan with every ounce of their beings. And lots of ADs and boosters will help them fight.

Factor in also the team screwing over the players by not paying them true full amount due, paying them late or not paying them at all. This occurs frequently.

moly99 · Jul 23, 2014

crystalline said:
I think the NCAA exploits players but I don't think making the D-League a true minor league is the answer. NCAA football and basketball make extraordinary amounts of money. Baseball's minor league teams make little and their players are paid peanuts.

MLB's farm system has a ton of levels, though. There are 240 total minor league teams. The NBA only needs a maximum of 30 D League teams, each with half the number of players as MLB's farm teams. The NBA won't make a lot of money from a true minor league system, but it should also cost them a hell of a lot less to run than MLB's minor league system.

It shouldn't be too difficult for them to create a player exception for D league teams like MLS' Designated Player rule that lets NBA teams stash top college prospects in their D League affiliate for a year.

Brickowski · Jul 23, 2014

It shouldn't be too difficult for them to create a player exception for D league teams like MLS' Designated Player rule that lets NBA teams stash top college prospects in their D League affiliate for a year.

Nor would it be difficult for the NCAA to allow schools to pay stipends to players that approximate (and could exceed) what D league players are currently making.
It seems to me that players like Mudiay are the NCAA's problem, not the NBA's problem.

Infield Infidel · Jul 23, 2014

It's a little from column A and a little from column B

It's an NBA problem because they set the age restriction. If it was 18 Mudiay would be in the NBA and this thread wouldn't exist.

The NCAA problem is that if more marginal players aren't drafted, they should be able to go to college if they qualify academically.

crystalline · Jul 23, 2014

I would guess that the total revenues of all minor league baseball teams is less than total revenue of D1 NCAA football or D1 NCAA basketball. The TV contracts are huge, but perhaps ticket revenue in all those baseball parks balances it out.

If the D-league pulled all the top talent out of the NCAA, would fans watch the NBADL on TV? Or keep watching the NCAA? I'd think this uncertainty gives both NCAA and NBA a strong incentive to keep the status quo. Which is why foreign leagues are so disruptive.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 23, 2014

Brickowski said:
Nor would it be difficult for the NCAA to allow schools to pay stipends to players that approximate (and could exceed) what D league players are currently making.
It seems to me that players like Mudiay are the NCAA's problem, not the NBA's problem.

I disagree with this as you can't simply pay men's basketball players. A typical school has what....30-35 varsity sports? It is and has been nearly impossible to create a way to stipend all NCAA athletes.....and attorneys will be standing in line waiting for one group, one sport or especially one gender to be excluded from this stipend program.

Brickowski · Jul 23, 2014

The NCAA, in particular, would love to preserve the status quo but I do not think that will be possible. The NCAA slave system is eroding, and not just in basketball.

Maybe the forced change will come as a result of unionization (the NLRB recently held that Northwestern's football players were "employees" for purposes of the NLRA) or suits by individual star athletes for unfair exploitation of their names and likenesses under statutes that protect celebrities in states like CA.

The argument that if they pay the football players they might have to pay stipends to the womens' frisbee team is bogus. NCAA football and basketball rake in millions, the top coaches make millions and the schools collectively make billions. A major shool could fund ten womens' Frisbee teams with those profits and still have millions left over.

Simple rule: you can pay athletes stipends of up to "x" dollars per month, with an aggregate cap for each institution based on the number of varsity athletes at that school. The schools could distribute the funds as they wished among the various athletes on a profit-sharing model. I see no Title IX issue if you pay the players based on the amount of revenue that their particular sport generates. Would UConn and Stanford have to compensate their womens' basketball teams as much as the men? Probably yes, but you are talking 25 athletes at each school as against million and millions in profits.

Emmanuel Mudiay and the future of NBA talent

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