He's going to be one of the worst QBs in the HOF. Career rating of 83.7 despite playing in a passing era. Mediocre 108-93 career record. Led the NFL in INTs 3 times. Only made the playoffs 6 times in 13 years. Has only won a playoff game in 2 of those years.
I'd drop "one of" from that statement. If he is enshrined, he'll be the worst modern-era QB in Canton.
I was trying not to be too heavy handed but I agree. If Eli beats the Chargers/Ravens in the SB, does he make the HOF?
Yes. The opponent matters a lot to us, obviously, but to HOF voters, it's as simple as "two rings." (If it were any more complicated than that, he wouldn't be a serious candidate.)
I am not an Eli fan, but by the time he retires, he'll be like top 7-10 all time in several key passing categories, with two head-to-head Super Bowl victories over Tom Brady.
There's no doubt in my mind that - if they don't already have it and I haven't seen it if they do - they need an ops+ or era+ stat for QBs: QBR+ or something like that. Something that takes into account their home stadium and era in which they played.
What's the consensus on Ben? The character stuff is obviously a big black mark against him (in today's day and age – let's not pretend that a ton of HOFers aren't as bad if not worse). And he's 2/3 for Super Bowls (I'll always thank Aaron Rodgers for denying him a third). But where are his numbers as a QB?
Far, FAR better than Eli's on a rate basis. Career rating 94.1. Record is 125-60.
Brad Johnson had a better career winning % than Eli, and a very similar passer rating (82.5)
I'm honestly not sure. He's had a bunch of guys who looked like they were fantastic at the time, but they've pretty much all turned into pumpkins when they left (with a lot of injuries too). Hakeem Nicks looked like the real deal, and was out of the league at 27. Same with (the other) Steve Smith. Burress was talented, but only caught about 50% of the balls thrown at him (and then shot himself in the leg). Victor Cruz looked great for 2 years and then physically fell apart. OBJ looks fantastic.
Plus he's only earned one bye, so he's had plenty of chances against theoretically inferior teams to pad that. Of course, he's also missed the playoffs just as often as he's made them.
And he has only made the playoffs six times, this is his 14th season. That is not a good ratio. Rivers has 5, but didn't play in 2005 or 2006. Ben has 9. Flacco has 6 and this is only his 10th year. And speaking of Flacco, the guy has a ring, a better career passer rating than Eli, far better career winning % than Eli, more playoff wins than Eli (same playoff winning %), one of the greatest playoff runs ever recorded, and many years left.
Flacco is a good comp although one advantage Eli has is Pro Bowl appearances. He has 4 and Flacco has never made it. But that still won't stop me from saying that Eli is basically Joe Flacco + a helmet catch.
Griese is the bar for me. Griese led the league in completion percentage once and TD's once. He never led the league in any other important category. He finished top five in passing yards once. He finished top five in TDs three times. He never threw for more than 2,400 yards in any season. He won two rings, but even for one of the seasons he won a ring in he only appeared in seven games total. He was 7-5 in the playoffs for his career. He was a total game manager by any definition.
Flacco has been more consistent, while Eli has had higher highs and lower lows. Eli was really bad his first two years in the league, and has had some spotty high-INT seasons since then, but his best work (2011, for instance) is better than anything Flacco has done. Eli's had a couple seasons where he was a fringe top-five guy; Flacco at his best has been a fringe top-10 guy.
I was really surprised that the ‘12 ranked so high, but I’d blanked most of this season out after the Gronk injury and the poor showing in the AFCCG. One of the best seasons they ever had at skill positions with Hernandez/Gronk/Lloyd/Welker/Woodhead and Ridley running for 1200 yards.
Yeah that was the year they started off 3-3 after the road loss to Seattle (the bogus intentional grounding penalty against Brady at the end of the first half). They then went 9-1 to end the year, the only loss being that thrilling comeback against SF that just fell short. They stomped the Texans in the divisional round but then Talib got hurt in the AFCCG and that was that. Actually the Pats were up 3-0, and 13-7 in that game before the wheels came off. That was also the game that Ridley fumbled after literally being knocked out by a helmet-to-helmet hit by Pollard.
Maybe an universe exists in which Eli Manning can be considered a better quarterback than Ben Roethlisberger, but it certainly isn't this one.Ben threw two interceptions in his own territory, one was called back for offsides. He was also sacked 5 times. He may have been better off playing in the secondary.
Flacco's Super Bowl run included the Rahim Moore play. So Eli is just Rahim Moore falling down and one absurd helmet catch.
Eli has lead the league in interceptions several years.Ben threw two interceptions in his own territory, one was called back for offsides. He was also sacked 5 times. He may have been better off playing in the secondary.
Sure, but they shouldn't override 200+ games of mediocrity, which was the article's well reasoned point. People had doubts about Kurt Warner being a hall of famer (and I include myself in this group), and he was a VASTLY superior player to Eli in every respect, has a ring, two MVPs, a better playoff record and better playoff stats than Eli. What does Eli have over him? Being a noticeably worse player for longer?
As much as I hate to say it though, you have to admit that he was more important than say his brother in 2015 or Dilfer in 2000 or Brad Johnson in 2002
I'm not sure I agree, and Peyton's candidacy has nothing to do with 2015. He was a first ballot HOF'er by 2010.
You've cherry-picked the numbers a bit, but I'm not sure that defeats your point -- the fact that it's possible to make even a cherry-picked case separates Eli from, say, Roethlisberger.
You've got Favre, Aikman and (arguably) Warner in that "doughnut hole" generation, and although Young is an age-peer of the Elway/Marino generation, his prime years came later (because he played in the USFL, then sat behind Montana). If Jones doesn't tackle Dyson on the 1-yard line, Steve McNair is probably in too. Drew Bledsoe put up big stats on some flawed teams, but got dumped in favor of TB12 just as his luck was about to change; it isn't hard to imagine a parallel universe where he's a HOFer.
How are those numbers cherry picked? I used rate stats since Eli has been in the league longer than Cutler. They are incredibly similar in virtually every single passing category. Even if you want to go into more esoteric stats like ANY/A, Cutler is at 5.89 while Eli's is 5.95. At least statistically they have pretty much been the exact same quarterback.
W% isn't the be-all and end-all (and Cutler has been on exceptionally crappy teams), but those stats and others like it (e.g., 4th quarter comebacks) strongly favor Eli. Eli also gets sacked much less often than Cutler, which of course is more on the QB than is commonly supposed. So I don't think there's a serious argument that Eli and Cutler are comparable -- but the fact that you can construct a straight-faced comparison like that speaks volumes about how overrated Eli is.
I wasn't making an argument, just stating that Cutler would be view in a similar light as Eli if he had won two Super Bowls. It's simply a big if to say, "Cutler is considered a joke and so would Eli IF he didn't QB two Super Bowl teams." Because he did win those Super Bowls, the only team to beat Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, in fact. That's a colossal if.
