Dustin Pedroia Retrospective

Rovin Romine

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Well, there are solid rumblings he's done. Assuming this is true, what do we think of Pedroia's tenure here?

At age 27, he seemed as much of a HOF lock as Garciaparra did.

"Did some checking. Pedroia is not planning a comeback and a resolution could come this month. Given Dustin's status, they'll want to do this correctly Also fair to say they haven't dropped anybody off the 40-man they saw as having an impact. But they're running low on those " - Pete Abe

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1351252543641415690
 

BaseballJones

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Dustin Pedroia had a heck of a major league career. Definitely not a baseball hall of famer, but maybe a Red Sox hall of famer. A fair number of outstanding seasons, and a handful of other good, solid ones.

ROY award in 2007 - .317/.380/.442/.823, 112 ops+, 86 runs
MVP award in 2008 - .326/.376/.493/.869, 123 ops+, 118 runs, 54 doubles, 83 rbi, 6.9 bWAR (weak field that year but still)
4x all-star (2008, 2009, 2010, 2013)
2x WS winner (2007, 2013)
4x gold glove winner
3x top 10 in MVP votes

Career line: 1,512 g, 922 runs, 394 doubles, 140 homers, 725 rbi, .299/.365/.439/.805, 113 ops+, 51.6 bWAR

So fun to root for this guy. Sad to see him retire, but he hasn't been the same since, oh, about 2017.
 

Leather

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Yeah, not quite a HOF player, but certainly a Red Sox HOFer.

He was Ortiz' co-pilot on those 2007-2013 Red Sox championship teams. Too bad the wheels fell off a few years earlier than we all would have liked, but still an excellent career.
 

begranter

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Probably second to only Ortiz in terms of what he meant to the organization in my lifetime.

Is the consensus that Machado's spiking him at 2nd is what ultimately ended his career, or is that my revisionist history?

Edit: removed bad info
 
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CaptainLaddie

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Fuck you, Manny Machado.

Edit: to add some content...

Pedroia's probably the most "fun" great player of my Sox fandom. He was so good for a while there, someone larger than life even for his small size. Not a HOF unfortunately, but even without the injuries he was unlikely to go there. Still, he's a folk hero and truly someone fans could root for without reservation. Dude just lived baseball.

I remember in 06 during his cup of coffee telling my friends that you shouldn't judge him on his bad stats -- the guy hit at EVERY level. My favorite stat was his BB:K numbers, year after year he was walking more than he struck out -- going back to his freshman year in college. He only finally struck out more in his MVP year, and only by 2 Ks. His "worst" year for it was in 2014, where he struck out 24 more times than he walked.
 
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trekfan55

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Hopefully they hire him as a coach at his current salary so they can get his contract off the books. Would have been helpful last year, (or the year before) but I get both why he wanted to try to play again and not give up the guaranteed contract. Probably second to only Ortiz in terms of what he meant to the organization in my lifetime.

Is the consensus that Machado's spiking him at 2nd is what ultimately ended his career, or is that my revisionist history?
I'm not sure about being 100% of what he was since he has had multiple injuries but Machado definitely ended his career, And cut it short.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Hopefully they hire him as a coach at his current salary so they can get his contract off the books. Would have been helpful last year, (or the year before) but I get both why he wanted to try to play again and not give up the guaranteed contract. Probably second to only Ortiz in terms of what he meant to the organization in my lifetime.

Is the consensus that Machado's spiking him at 2nd is what ultimately ended his career, or is that my revisionist history?
That's not how it works.

My guess is they're negotiating a buyout of his final year that would get him the money he's owed while lessening the impact on the team's payroll. I don't expect he'll be with the team in any capacity this year (other than maybe a nominal front office "consultant" job).
 

IdiotKicker

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Pedroia was right in that 2001-2010 window where I probably watched every inning of 150+ games every year. Just freaking loved watching this dude play, and for me, it’s hard for anything to top this play in terms of what he meant to this team, but also kind of the peak of my Sox watching experience and all of the optimism around young prospects in the mid-2000s.

 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Hopefully they hire him as a coach at his current salary so they can get his contract off the books. Would have been helpful last year, (or the year before) but I get both why he wanted to try to play again and not give up the guaranteed contract. Probably second to only Ortiz in terms of what he meant to the organization in my lifetime.

Is the consensus that Machado's spiking him at 2nd is what ultimately ended his career, or is that my revisionist history?
Let's not go down this tangent again. He's going to get the full $12M remaining for his 2021 contract and it's not going to be through some handshake circumvent the salary cap scenario. Besides, the Red Sox already did a reset last year.
 

Salem's Lot

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Hopefully they hire him as a coach at his current salary so they can get his contract off the books.
This has been discussed at length on this board. They are not able to do that. The only way Pedroia’s contract is not on the luxury tax number in 2021 is if he retires. And he’s probably not going to do that and forego $12.5 million dollars.

He’s going to do what most players do in that situation. He’s going to show up in Ft Myers on reporting day. He’s going to fail his physical. Then he’s going to go home and get a check in the mail until 10/1/2021 when his contract expires. At that point he will retire.
 

bohous

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I recall before his rookie season I got into an argument with a guy on another board who insisted that Pedroia would be a serviceable player, but never the level of Howie Kendrick. It's actually a pretty interesting careers comparison from a strictly numbers standpoint. Both came in the same year and Kendrick also just retired. Pedroia obviously ends up the better overall player.
 

rmurph3

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Let's not go down this tangent again. He's going to get the full $12M remaining for his 2021 contract and it's not going to be through some handshake circumvent the salary cap scenario. Besides, the Red Sox already did a reset last year.
Right, there's no need to worry about lux tax implications. And DP took what turned out to be a very below-market deal when he signed his big contract. With that comes the guarantee that he gets every last dollar in that contract, and that's exactly what's going to happen.
 

nvalvo

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Are we sure he's not a HOF? I don't think it's especially likely, but he has 51.6 WAR, strikingly close to Bobby Doerr's total of 51.1 and more than Johnny Evers' 47.7, among second basemen. It would be more than Jim Rice's or Kirby Puckett's WAR, among recent position player nominees.

He was a ROY and an MVP and a huge contributor to two WS teams.

I don't think he gets there, and I probably wouldn't vote for him, but he will likely get some votes.

To state the obvious: if he'd just been able to be average, I dunno, 2 WAR per year in the 2018–2021 seasons, he would shake out around 60 WAR and become a pretty strong contender. Baseball history is of course littered with great players who should have had even better careers if not for injury.
 

shaggydog2000

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This has been discussed at length on this board. They are not able to do that. The only way Pedroia’s contract is not on the luxury tax number in 2021 is if he retires. And he’s probably not going to do that and forego $12.5 million dollars.

He’s going to do what most players do in that situation. He’s going to show up in Ft Myers on reporting day. He’s going to fail his physical. Then he’s going to go home and get a check in the mail until 10/1/2021 when his contract expires. At that point he will retire.
Or the team could make an agreement with him and buy his contract out if they need the roster spot, right? Or cut him and then have him announce his retirement in order to free up a spot. No matter what, he's getting his cash and he's not ever playing again, we've known that for a while.
 

Salem's Lot

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Or the team could make an agreement with him and buy his contract out if they need the roster spot, right? Or cut him and then have him announce his retirement in order to free up a spot. No matter what, he's getting his cash and he's not ever playing again, we've known that for a while.
Yes if they wanted to cut him and pay him out the $12.5 so they could get him off the 40 man, absolutely. They would still have to pay him the cash, and there would be no luxury tax relief.
 

SoxJox

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He was the first Red Sox player (or ANY MLB player for that matter) from whom my son got an autograph back in Spring of 2006, when Pedey looked more like a chubby-cheeked pudge.

38035
 

bankshot1

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He was one of my favorite Sox players ever. Played hard and played really well. He was a ballplayer.

IMO injuries and only injuries kept his counting stats too low for HoF.

IMO he would have been a .300 liftime hitter, with ~ 2400+ hits, with 5-6 GGs, (has 4) with ROY and MVP and 3 rings. Not a shabby resume for a 2nd baseman.
 

Bergs

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One of my favorites during his entire career. So much fun to watch play the game. Fuck Manny Machado.
 

canderson

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I own two bobbleheads. One is Vince Young. The other is Dustin Pedroia.

I don't think he has the longevity of the HOF, but he's tailor-made for the Hall of Very, Very Good Whose Career Was Cut Early By An Asshole
 

Rovin Romine

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Are we sure he's not a HOF? I don't think it's especially likely, but he has 51.6 WAR, strikingly close to Bobby Doerr's total of 51.1 and more than Johnny Evers' 47.7, among second basemen. It would be more than Jim Rice's or Kirby Puckett's WAR, among recent position player nominees.

He was a ROY and an MVP and a huge contributor to two WS teams.

I don't think he gets there, and I probably wouldn't vote for him, but he will likely get some votes.

To state the obvious: if he'd just been able to be average, I dunno, 2 WAR per year in the 2018–2021 seasons, he would shake out around 60 WAR and become a pretty strong contender. Baseball history is of course littered with great players who should have had even better careers if not for injury.
He was coming of a 5 WAR season in 2016 (age 32), though the prior two seasons were each 2 and change, due to injuries.

So an average of 2 sounds plausible to me.

It wasn't just Machado though - Pedroia had lingering problems before that. So it's not like he was deprived of a sure thing. (Earlier in his career, he messed himself up with a couple of head-first slides. I wonder how much that cost him)
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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The writing has been on the wall for a while, but that doesn't make it suck any less. Loved watching him play when he was healthy. My wife will be sad that her favorite player is finally retiring.
 

shaggydog2000

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Yes if they wanted to cut him and pay him out the $12.5 so they could get him off the 40 man, absolutely. They would still have to pay him the cash, and there would be no luxury tax relief.
And it sucks that in a thread where we should be talking about how much fun he was as a player (and he was immensely fun), that we have to talk about luxury taxes and such, but that is modern sports.

Dustin was a cocky, arrogant little sob who produced on the field and an interviews with some of the funniest lines I've ever heard from a ballplayer. It's a shame that his body gave out early on him, because his defense was great to watch, and he had plenty of big hits.
 

Bergs

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In the video @brandonchristensen provided in the second post, it's amazing the cheers from the Chicago home crowd. I mean, I know the Red Sox travel well, but this almost sounded like a COVID-19 empty home stadium with piped in crowd noise.
Colorado. That said, there were more Red Sox fans at White Sox games in Chicago than White Sox fans from 05-08 or so, and certainly more at Wrigley in 05.
 

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He's got to me on the Nomar, Fred Lynn (maybe Tony C) list of Sox who looked like sure fire HOFers after their first few seasons and then weren't.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Pretty easy to root for a small guy with a big mouth who backs it up. Clear HOF talent, and a certain HOF career trajectory cut short by injuries. I think his hardware and the team’s success will get him votes; maybe up to the 40-50% range? The fact that the one contemporary 2d baseman who was clearly better - Cano - was busted for PEDs might indirectly help Pedey, who doesn’t have that problem. Also, unlike Nomar, the team didn’t feel compelled to trade him away in order to win. Maybe the Veterans committee (or whatever the other committee is called) votes him in at some point. Obvious Sox HOFer.

I loved everything about his play and feel kinda cheated by his injuries, much the way Twins fans felt about Puck. Two more good years is all I really wanted (and all he probably needed for the Hall).
 

Kliq

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Are we sure he's not a HOF? I don't think it's especially likely, but he has 51.6 WAR, strikingly close to Bobby Doerr's total of 51.1 and more than Johnny Evers' 47.7, among second basemen. It would be more than Jim Rice's or Kirby Puckett's WAR, among recent position player nominees.

He was a ROY and an MVP and a huge contributor to two WS teams.

I don't think he gets there, and I probably wouldn't vote for him, but he will likely get some votes.

To state the obvious: if he'd just been able to be average, I dunno, 2 WAR per year in the 2018–2021 seasons, he would shake out around 60 WAR and become a pretty strong contender. Baseball history is of course littered with great players who should have had even better careers if not for injury.
Doerr gets some benefit of the doubt due to the War. He only missed one season, but it was right in his prime, he had a 6.3 WAR season in 1944 and a 5.5 WAR season in 1946.

Evers is a closer example, but he retired well before the Hall of Fame existed, so he got some time where he was memorialized in the memories of sportswriters and fans as a true legend of the game. Part of that comes from the aforementioned poem "Tinker to Evers to Chance" and also his role in the miracle 1914 Boston Braves, where he won the MVP and led them to the World Series. They didn't have WAR back then, for all they knew he was a 60+ WAR player.

I think we shouldn't rule out the possibility that in 30 years or so, the Veteran's Committee makes the case for Pedroia and votes him in. That is how most of the borderline cases find their way into the Hall of Fame, and his playing style and role on championship teams will probably glamorize his case a bit and allow people to look the other way at the wrong numbers.
 

Manuel Aristides

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I was at what was apparently he last career game. When he didn't come out for the top of the second, my friend and I both wondered if that might be that. Horrible game won by a Brett Gardner 8th inning granny. Not the way the foul mouthed hard nosed little bastard deserved to go out. A curse on house Machado, absolutely.

Pound for pound as talented as anyone to put the uniform on. They list him at 5'9" but that's at least two inches of charity. If he'd been born 6'1" he'd have been an all time great with those wrists. Still one of the most fun players we've had in Boston in thirty years. At least we don't have to see him in another uniform.
 

Seels

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He's one of my favorites and marks a firm end to an entire generation of Red Sox players. He's the last thing connecting them with the Tito years, which as far as I'm concerned is going to be the most I'll ever enjoy the sport of baseball. He's also maybe the last real home grown and retired player the Sox will have, ever.

Sports peaked in 2007-2010 for me. The veneer of this eras Red Sox was off once the September collapse happened, and the team lost Tito. I miss that era, the era where the Sox weren't just good, they were fun. Now they're neither.
 

shaggydog2000

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Pretty easy to root for a small guy with a big mouth who backs it up. Clear HOF talent, and a certain HOF career trajectory cut short by injuries. I think his hardware and the team’s success will get him votes; maybe up to the 40-50% range? The fact that the one contemporary 2d baseman who was clearly better - Cano - was busted for PEDs might indirectly help Pedey, who doesn’t have that problem. Also, unlike Nomar, the team didn’t feel compelled to trade him away in order to win. Maybe the Veterans committee (or whatever the other committee is called) votes him in at some point. Obvious Sox HOFer.

I loved everything about his play and feel kinda cheated by his injuries, much the way Twins fans felt about Puck. Two more good years is all I really wanted (and all he probably needed for the Hall).
Utley was really damn good and overlapped with most of Pedey's best years. Definitely peaked before Pedey did though. Kinsler was close as well, but his defense was not nearly as good.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Utley was really damn good and overlapped with most of Pedey's best years. Definitely peaked before Pedey did though. Kinsler was close as well, but his defense was not nearly as good.
Yeah, I think those two were comparable but not better. Take Utley’s age 33-35 seasons and give that production to Pedroia and he’s probably got enough longevity and career WAR for the Hall. Grrr.
 

santadevil

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I'll echo the sentiment of many others, one of my favorite players for the Sox
Played with heart and just loved the game and knew how to play it very well

I hope we'll see him back, in one way or another with the Sox, as a coach, in the broadcast booth, whatever
Love me some Pedey
 

ookami7m

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We all know this has been coming, but damn it still sucks. Pedroia is the second player my oldest daughter wanted to know more about after Big Papi - The Robin to Ortiz's Batman from 07-13. I'm not going to rehash the numbers that are all upthread, but from the "fuck yeah" play to taking grounders on his knees while his ankle was in a boot - the guy was the ultimate dirt dog, but with the talent and skills to back it up.

I've been missing his Big Ole Swing for a while now, but it's time to accept that it's gone. If the early 2000s were Pedro, Tek and Manny's teams, 06-15 was Papi and Pedey.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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One of my favorite Sox tees is an unlicensed "Pedroia the Destroyah" shirt. Because he was the little Titan. A baseball dynamo in every sense.

He prepared as hard as anyone. He was up on his toes bouncing around on every pitch. And he threw his slender frame around the field like a crash test dummy. And every year post 2017 up to this one, he worked his ass off to get himself right to try to contribute once again. It just sucks that this was always going to be the end for him. Time and his own body worked against him.

Someone posted up thread the three homer game out in COL. That's one of those legendary performances I'll never forget. He's a Sox HOFer. His peak was absolutely first ballot HOF worthy. Fuck Machado. Fuck him til the day he dies.
 

Danny_Darwin

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Are we sure he's not a HOF? I don't think it's especially likely, but he has 51.6 WAR, strikingly close to Bobby Doerr's total of 51.1 and more than Johnny Evers' 47.7, among second basemen. It would be more than Jim Rice's or Kirby Puckett's WAR, among recent position player nominees.

He was a ROY and an MVP and a huge contributor to two WS teams.

I don't think he gets there, and I probably wouldn't vote for him, but he will likely get some votes.

To state the obvious: if he'd just been able to be average, I dunno, 2 WAR per year in the 2018–2021 seasons, he would shake out around 60 WAR and become a pretty strong contender. Baseball history is of course littered with great players who should have had even better careers if not for injury.
If the writers were to elect him, he’d be the first player elected with fewer than 2,000 hits (unless Andruw Jones or Chase Utley beat him to it). Not that anyone thinks about it that way, of course. And yeah, who knows what a future VC might say.
 

terrynever

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Did any infielder ever make more diving stops, bounce up and gun his throw to first? Pedey pissed me off at first, until I realized he was playing for all short people like myself. And how he could hammer that high fastball! Those are the two images that Pedey’s name conjures in my mind. I hope he has a great life after baseball.
 

shaggydog2000

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Yeah, I think those two were comparable but not better. Take Utley’s age 33-35 seasons and give that production to Pedroia and he’s probably got enough longevity and career WAR for the Hall. Grrr.
Utley had 5 straight 7+ WAR seasons. Pedey, Cano, and Kinsler had one of those each. I think he's a level above, and he finished with over 60 WAR, although Cano is getting close to that and is still playing. Kinsler and Pedey are both mid 40's (fWAR). I think Utley was the most talented at his peak, Cano has had the longevity, and Pedey and Kinsler are similar with the defensive edge going to Pedroia and Kinsler being a better base runner. I still don't know if I would trade the full lazer-show experience for any of them.
 

bigq

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Thank goodness Tito didn’t give up on him at the end of April 2007 when Pedroia was sporting a .182 BA with OPS of .544. That year he got his first extra vase hit in his 15th game. He went on to have a fantastic rookie year and he became a pretty good cribbage player to boot. Thanks for the memories!
 

Yo La Tengo

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I remember watching Pedroia and Hanley together at Hadlock Field playing for the Sea Dogs. Hanley looked like a man among boys. Pedroia did not stop moving. I would never had guessed that they would have something like comparable careers by the numbers. In fact, I'd argue Pedroia had the better career.

It is a sad reality that my kids have Ortiz, Pedroia, and Mookie t-shirts.
 

allmanbro

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Echoing what others have said about what joy Pedroia has been to watch. I think he could have made a run at HOF, but was always likely to fall short. My own view is that the Hall is about celebrating the history of the game of baseball at its best rather than just ranking the "best" career numbers. By that metric, he gets a big boost for being himself and winning those WS, but I still don't think he gets there. (I'd take him over Harold Baines though)

Stray thoughts:
-It's kind of fun that he came up along with Cano, so we got a little reprise of the Nomar/Jeter rivalry
-As I recall the rap on him early was that he wouldn't hit high heat, being so short with that huge hack of a swing, but he had hand eye coordination to spare
-He's just about a year older than me, and I remember how weird that felt 12 years ago when I realized that someone about my age already had a ROY and MVP under his belt
 

Just a bit outside

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I loved watching Pedroia get ready on every pitch. That little jump like he was getting ready to return a serve in tennis. He had great instincts and always got an incredible jump on the ball. He was the one I used to show my two boys when they were first playing about what it means to be ready on every pitch.
 

SoxFanInCali

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He only played 3 games in 2018, but he's the only player other than Papi to be part of 3 of the 4 title teams this century.

So much fun to watch, and was always ready with a great quote.

Like many have already said, Fuck Manny Machado.
 

Scott Cooper's Grand Slam

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I can't seem to find a clip or transcript, but if memory serves it was Pedroia who (when talking about a famous teammate) helpfully informed the media that "Big Papi" was Spanish for "Large Father." In my head, I remember it as an all-time great deadpan delivery. He was an excellent player who appeared to be having a great time. What a career! What a life!
 

drbretto

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Absolutely a Red Sox HoFer. Zero question of that in my mind. I agree with the bunch saying he definitely would have been the real HoF had it not been for injuries. I don't want to stop the Machado hate, but but it wasn't just him. Pedroia's play style was his best and worst trait. He was always begging to be injured.
 

Bowhemian

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I loved watching Pedroia get ready on every pitch. That little jump like he was getting ready to return a serve in tennis. He had great instincts and always got an incredible jump on the ball. He was the one I used to show my two boys when they were first playing about what it means to be ready on every pitch.
I had been watching the games on TV for several years, and never knew that he did that little hop. Then I went to a game and saw it first hand.

I loved watching the guy play. He had no fear.