that’s not true…Fucking infuriating. 4th pick in a draft with only three marquee players.
Hunter
Carter
Johnson
Graham
that’s not true…Fucking infuriating. 4th pick in a draft with only three marquee players.
Yeah, agree. Not even sure how you'd get to 3. Some people might have Hunter a full tier up I guess,that’s not true…
Hunter
Carter
Johnson
Graham
I’ve been a Michigan fan for 20+ years and Graham is the best player I’ve ever seen there. Really high floor IMO and it’s hard to find guys who stuff the run and push the pocket back…Yeah, agree. Not even sure how you'd get to 3. Some people might have Hunter a full tier up I guess,
I keep seeing this--if everyone knows he "probably" won't play both ways in the NFL, then his top of the 1st round draft value doesn't factor that in.
My understanding is Hunter is neither the best WR (Arizona's Tetairoa McMillan) nor the best CB (Michigan's Will Johnson) in the draft, so you have to wonder why a team wouldn't prefer to draft either of those guys over him---unless you really think you can play him both ways. Which I guess would mean he goes to all the defensive meetings, but has a limited package of plays on the offense.A lot of people still have him there on the "well you'll get something extra out of him"... but I do think the best think he's just a really good CB and this draft is weak at the top.
He’s such an exciting athlete, but that concerns me too. Pats have so many holes and need bona fide playersMy understanding is Hunter is neither the best WR (Arizona's Tetairoa McMillan) the best CB (Michigan's Will Johnson) in the draft, so you have to wonder why a team wouldn't prefer to draft either of those guys over him---unless you really think you can play him both ways. Which I guess would mean he goes to all the defensive meetings, but has a limited package of plays on the offense.
I know a lot of people think he's better than Johnson.My understanding is Hunter is neither the best WR (Arizona's Tetairoa McMillan) nor the best CB (Michigan's Will Johnson) in the draft, so you have to wonder why a team wouldn't prefer to draft either of those guys over him---unless you really think you can play him both ways. Which I guess would mean he goes to all the defensive meetings, but has a limited package of plays on the offense.
It could very well be that one of the teams that miss out on a QB or one of the more ballyhooed players are going to take him and it will be like when Aaron Donald fell to the Rams.I’ve been a Michigan fan for 20+ years and Graham is the best player I’ve ever seen there. Really high floor IMO and it’s hard to find guys who stuff the run and push the pocket back…
Give me McMillan!Tankathon has the Pats taking McMillan.
Ed- I’d be thrilled with Graham.
Gotta root for the Jets and Raiders to win today.Less important but noteworthy, the Pats also drop in the 2nd round to 7th (39th) from 35th.
Edit - already kind of touched on above
Not a big fan of Phil Olsen?The last two times we picked 4th it worked out pretty well.
View: https://twitter.com/realalexbarth/status/1876030466782056767?s=46&t=2Ncci6pVLxm2q2YAXCD8zw
I think some of the value is not necessarily that he'll play both sides of the ball at the same time (e.g., full-time CB plus gadget receiver on offense), but also that he gives a team two bites at the apple to see if if he can be elite at either one. Kind of like drafting Tim Tebow to be a QB with fallback TE or FB potential, except if Tebow were actually good.My understanding is Hunter is neither the best WR (Arizona's Tetairoa McMillan) nor the best CB (Michigan's Will Johnson) in the draft, so you have to wonder why a team wouldn't prefer to draft either of those guys over him---unless you really think you can play him both ways. Which I guess would mean he goes to all the defensive meetings, but has a limited package of plays on the offense.
Unfortunately, a knee injury ruined his career before it got started.Not a big fan of Phil Olsen?
Agree and if a qb or two goes at the top, we can have our pickTop 4 players on my board right now are (in no particular order) Travis Hunter, Will Johnson, Mason Graham and Abdul Carter
winNYJ also lose & help us with position - 1 less team in the 4-13 range. Shitty day for us with the pick, but could've been worse.
Crazy but I know Phil Olsen. He’s good friends with my father in law who also played with him at Utah State. His grandson (Sam Roush) plays TE for Stanford. An incredibly nice guy.Unfortunately, a knee injury ruined his career before it got started.
Yes, that's what I meant. My bad!
If they had lost, they’d have been looking at 1, 36, 66, 77.Yes, that's what I meant. My bad!
So, 3 teams finish 4-13.
For the 1st 3 rounds, as things stand now:
1.4 (4)
2.7 (38)
3.5 (69, nice)
3.13 (77, no affect on our record - this is ATL's original pick)
And that doesn’t include any value they may have picked up by trading downIf they had lost, they’d have been looking at 1, 36, 66, 77.
By the Jimmy Johnson value chart, that equates to a cumulative loss worth 1235 points, roughly the 11th pick overall.
By the Rich Hill (drafted) chart, it’s worth the equivalent of the 3rd pick overall.
Theoretically that’s baked in. But I’m with you.And that doesn’t include any value they may have picked up by trading down
Win.Theoretically that’s baked in. But I’m with you.
Truly a catastrophic loss.
Right agreedTheoretically that’s baked in. But I’m with you.
Truly a catastrophic loss.
Probably isn't entirely because a trade to #1 would be for a QB and all the charts agree that QB premium is real and you add a certain percentage.Theoretically that’s baked in. But I’m with you.
Truly a catastrophic loss.
But it very much depends on who is trading up and from where they’re trading. If it’s a 2 qb draft and the team picking 3rd wants the QB, the return from them is gonna look a lot less like a “haul” than if the team at 8 wants to move up.Probably isn't entirely because a trade to #1 would be for a QB and all the charts agree that QB premium is real and you add a certain percentage.
Sure, just saying it will be above chart value.But it very much depends on who is trading up and from where they’re trading. If it’s a 2 qb draft and the team picking 3rd wants the QB, the return from them is gonna look a lot less like a “haul” than if the team at 8 wants to move up.
My dream was trading down from #1 to #3 or #4 and then also moving down to the bottom of the top 10 and picking up future and current picks along with one of the few truly top talents in a weak draft.But it very much depends on who is trading up and from where they’re trading. If it’s a 2 qb draft and the team picking 3rd wants the QB, the return from them is gonna look a lot less like a “haul” than if the team at 8 wants to move up.
Well, you might still be able to trade down from #4.My dream was trading down from #1 to #3 or #4 and then also moving down to the bottom of the top 10 and picking up future and current picks along with one of the few truly top talents in a weak draft.
Crushed.
I don’t think anyone is doubting that? You’d get more if you’d traded from 1. I am at the point where there’s a group of posters that are just gaslighting.Well, you might still be able to trade down from #4.
Much worse than what they could have had, but let’s also be honest - they really ought to be able to draft some very, very good players with those four draft slots.Yes, that's what I meant. My bad!
So, 3 teams finish 4-13.
For the 1st 3 rounds, as things stand now:
1.4 (4)
2.7 (38)
3.5 (69, nice)
3.13 (77, no affect on our record - this is ATL's original pick)
Agreed. What happened, happened. Now they need to get on with rebuilding the piss poor talent on this team. 4 picks in the top 77 should be a good start... as long as we don't replicate last year's round 2 and 3 disaster.Much worse than what they could have had, but let’s also be honest - they really ought to be able to draft some very, very good players with those four draft slots.
That’s awesome! Can’t wait to listenAfter listening to the Bill Simmons-Cousin Sal pod, I now want a Jack Shit #25 jersey just to memorialize the player we got "trading down" from 1 to 4. Jack is a linebacker prospect but unfortunately the scouting report says he disappears during games.
Yep. Do well in the draft. Use their enormous cap space to get the right FA additions. Make a couple of trades if you need to. And, of course, hire the right HC.Agreed. What happened, happened. Now they need to get on with rebuilding the piss poor talent on this team. 4 picks in the top 77 should be a good start... as long as we don't replicate last year's round 2 and 3 disaster.
Absolutely can be done successfully. Just need the right people in place to execute it. We both go back to the dark days of 1989-1992. Four seasons after that rock bottom we were in the Super Bowl. Anything is possible in the NFL with the right people in charge.Yep. Do well in the draft. Use their enormous cap space to get the right FA additions. Make a couple of trades if you need to. And, of course, hire the right HC.
It’s a lot on the to do list but it can be done successfully, I believe.
I don't know what this says about me and/or the Pats, but my mind auto-filled "hurt" at the end of the first line, and I was legit surprised when I reread your post and saw the bolded.I’m not terribly excited about trading down from #4. Maybe there’s a team that sees a stud DL as their final piece that would give up a lot to pick there, but we could also use that, too. If we could turn #4 into two of the high ceiling, low floor OTs that will likely get picked towards the end of the first that would be interesting, but obviously quite risky,
I’ve already flipped the switch from anger at losing the #1 pick to excitement and anticipation over how this organization can reconstitute itself in a relatively short period of time.Absolutely can be done successfully. Just need the right people in place to execute it. We both go back to the dark days of 1989-1992. Four seasons after that rock bottom we were in the Super Bowl. Anything is possible in the NFL with the right people in charge.
Yep. I feel sick thinking about yesterday and likely will for a long time. I doubt they were getting the Trey Lance haul, but I think it’s fair to expect they were looking at probably a high 2 this year and next at minimum to move back 2-3 spots and still have their choice of highest rated player in the draft. Probably enough capital to have come away with the best defensive player on the board and a fringe first round WR or lineman. Imagine getting Carter or Hunter then still being able to move up for Egbuka? For a team in desperate need of a talent infusion it’s a catastrophic turn.GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Just had to get that off my chest, again.
Gonna do it a lot over the next three months I think.
This is great, I’m really still trying to work through it.I’ve already flipped the switch from anger at losing the #1 pick to excitement and anticipation over how this organization can reconstitute itself in a relatively short period of time.
They have a clean slate at HC and the QB of the future. Plus it looks like they may have a totally viable #2 QB in Milton.
LFG