I find this hard to believe. If this kid did not play hard at Alabama, do you think Saban would tolerate slacking? Saban doesn't strike me as a Mack Brown-type of coach plus he has tons of athletes to replace slackers on his team.
Dont'a Hightower
- Thread starter pappymojo
- Start date
I watched almost every Alabama football game last year and I didn't see that. He was coming off a hand injury suffered in camp which may have caused him to be inconsistent early, but by the end of the year he was back to his old self. He also had a knee injury in the 2009 season that caused him some inconsistencies in 2010. Him and Mark Barron were the unquestioned leaders of that defense. With Belichick and Matt Patricia, two high-motor coaches, I don't think effort will be a problem. He has been on record saying he really respects Jerod Mayo and Brandon Spikes, fellow SEC linebackers, so I hope they take Dont'a under their wings and teach him how to be a pro.
Ozzie Newsome couldn't foresee that the Patriots would change the way they value draft slots as a result of the change in the rookie wage scale? Amazing if true, but I have trouble buying that argument.
Is the rookie wage scale a big factor in the 20s where the Pats are picking?
2010 21st pick: Jermaine Gresham, five-year, $15.85 million deal - with $9.6 million guaranteed
2010 27th pick: Devin McCourty, five-year, $13.2 million with $7.825 million guaranteed
2010 25th pick: Tim Tebow, five-year contract $11.25 million (up to $33 million in incentives), $8.7 million guaranteed.
2010 31st pick: Jerry Hughes, five-years, $12.6 million, $7 million guaranteed
2011 21st pick: Phil Taylor, four years, $8.1 million (~$6.5 million guaranteed)
2011 27th pick: Jimmy Smith, four years, $7.46 million (~$6 MM guaranteed)
2011 25th pick: James Carpenter, four years, $7.46 million (~6 MM guaranteed)
2011 31st pick: Cameron Heyward, four years, $6.7 MM (~5.5 MM guaranteed)
I don't know. Maybe the rookie scale played in, but I don't think the differences in contracts between the slots were large enough to dissuade the Pats if they really wanted somebody.
Dont'a is on with Gresh and Zo(and Robert Kraft). He seems well-spoken, sounds very smart, and is obviously happy to be a Patriot. He keeps talking how versatile he is and will welcome any role that BB gives him. Is September here yet????? LET'S GO!!
Having watched him that much what do you think of his coverage abilities? Do you think that he used the Alabama unit to cover up for his cover ability, such as a guy like Barron who could cover TEs and slot receivers. I have mixed feelings personally but I think he can get better at that part of his game presumably with BB making him a better player in that kind of area.
I think he's pretty limited in coverage skills. He ran a 4.68 40 at the combine, but I think he plays slower than that. I don't think he can cover TEs well let alone RBs and slot guys. If he had to play outside in a 3-4(which I don't think will happen all that often but it will happen) I think he needs to be kept to the weak side and bracket a safety to that side of the field. He's going to be a real good run stuffer, but he's more Brandon Spikes than Jerod Mayo in terms of speed.
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4725223/sources-pats-agree-with-hightower
The last of the Patriots 2012 Draft picks, Dont'a Hightower, signed with the team yesterday.
The last of the Patriots 2012 Draft picks, Dont'a Hightower, signed with the team yesterday.
What exactly is Hightower's role with this defense? He has 25 total tackles this season and only 2 solo tackles in the last two weeks. He was considered a solid draft pick yet didn't really fill an area of need for this D (slow run stopping LB). Obviously we have a long way to go before we get a read on what type of a career he might have but thus far I'm pretty underwhelmed with what he has done for a 1st rd pick. I thought perhaps he would be a situational pass rusher, far greater area of need, yet they rarely have him blitz.
Am I missing something or is it fair to question if Harrison Smith might have been a better pick? He certainly would have filled an immediate need and by all accounts is having a very solid rookie season for MN.
Am I missing something or is it fair to question if Harrison Smith might have been a better pick? He certainly would have filled an immediate need and by all accounts is having a very solid rookie season for MN.
Hightower does blitz a fair amount; they use some five-man fronts with him in a 3-4 OLB-type role when in obvious passing situations. He has two sacks, which isn't insignificant considering he missed basically three games. I think the problem is the defense isn't in obvious passing situations that much because they can't stop opposing teams on first and second down.
I think he needs to be graded on a curve because they want him to be multiple. I think he will be a key to the defense eventually because having him and ninkovich on the field lets them switch between even and odd fronts literally on the fly. He has the size to play OLB and set the edge or rush the passer. Eventually Hightower could be the chess piece that really allows them to disguise what they are doing.
He was clearly held on the short TD run in the 3rd qtr, clear as day on replay. But he did play a pretty awful game.
Hard to say anyone had a worse day than Dennard tho. He was getting abused the entire day.
Is this true? Our strength has been stopping the run (usually cold...yesterday being an exception). Putting teams in ALOT of 2nd and 3rd and longs. Its THOSE situations, we have struggled (AGAIN).
Did you look at some stats somewhere saying that we are getting into an iordinate amount of 2nd and 3rd and shorts?
I think the problem is we cant afford 2 "slow run stopping LBs" in Hightower and Spikes on the field at the same time. Sure our Run D wont be as good.....but TEs, RBs and Slot WRs crossing the middle have killed us this year.
I was talking more about yesterday. In past weeks, Hightower has blitzed more; yesterday it didn't seem like he did because there weren't a lot of blitzing situations. I'd have to look at the tape to be sure. Watching live, I find I don't always notice the blitzing unless it works; they may have blitzed but ineffectively.
This is where the Bills are a tough matchup, because they play 3 WR basically all the time (and frequently split Chandler out wide) but they can still run effectively out of that alignment. So the Pats have to play in their nickel, but still respect the run.
I agree with your overall point; drafting Hightower was a bit curious when we already had big LBs who are coverage-deficient. I think they intend to use him in a 3-4 OLBish role in passing downs, but I don't think there was much opportunity for that yesterday.
Hightower is one of the guys Bill has said 'gets it', he has said he is very smart and works very hard. I would say about 99% of the time if Bill says those things about a player that we expect to be a starer, that player is going to be a decent starter. I think this was just the case of a rookie looking like a rookie.
I really like Hightower's potential, but a part of me now wishes they had drafted Harrison Smith at that spot with the way the secondary is playing.
Smith has had a better rookie season than Hightower, but, then again, Steelers fans cried 'bust' w/r/t Lawrence Timmons after '07.
Oh, there's no way I'm calling Hightower a bust. He's going to be a solid, solid player. But, with the way the safety play has been this season Harrison Smith would be a perfect fit for what our needs are right now.
Hightower has not looked the same since the injury; he looked much quicker/faster before getting hurt. Since it was a leg injury, it's reasonable to assume he's still carrying the injury in some small way and it's affecting his play.
I am disappointed that he is not earning snaps on 3rd down, in favor of Spikes. It's crystal clear that Spikes cannot defend the pass. Spikes is truly, historically awful at pass defense. He might have been a HOF player if he were 30 years younger; his run stuffing skills and the sheer force of his tackles/contact is awesome. But in today's game, he is a huge liability who limits what they can do schematically and gives the opposition an obvious target to pick on (i.e. the middle of the field).
Hightower was disappointing yesterday but most disappointing to me is that he's obviously not healthy enough to take snaps away from the worst pass defense LB in my memory.
I am disappointed that he is not earning snaps on 3rd down, in favor of Spikes. It's crystal clear that Spikes cannot defend the pass. Spikes is truly, historically awful at pass defense. He might have been a HOF player if he were 30 years younger; his run stuffing skills and the sheer force of his tackles/contact is awesome. But in today's game, he is a huge liability who limits what they can do schematically and gives the opposition an obvious target to pick on (i.e. the middle of the field).
Hightower was disappointing yesterday but most disappointing to me is that he's obviously not healthy enough to take snaps away from the worst pass defense LB in my memory.
Yeah even if Hightower was having a very solid season he would be taking snaps away from Nink/Spikes I believe. The incremental upgrade he could provide over those two pales into comparison to what a capable S could bring to this team. Beyond S this team could use a LB but not another run stuffer, they need a nickel LB that can actually cover a TE/RB. Mayo seems to have lost a step and is no longer capable to cover the intermediate middle like he used to.
Didn't mean to imply I was responding directly to you, my fault. I agree that having Smith would be preferable at the moment.
Almost a year since we have had any real discussion about Hightower outside of Game Threads.
I'd like to know where this guy is:
I always thought it was a curious pick at the time given the needs in the secondary but based on what we have seen for a year and a half it appears that this might be the first complete whiff in the 1st rd in the Bill Belichick era.
What can be done to salvage something. It is very apparent he can't cover RBs/TE's and isn't great against the run though perhaps not a liability. My thought is to swap Nink and Donta as Nink has been good in TE coverage in the past and seems to have much better instincts than Hightower. I also think Hightower may be an effective edge rusher if given the chance, something that Nink is average to below average at.
I'd like to know where this guy is:
I always thought it was a curious pick at the time given the needs in the secondary but based on what we have seen for a year and a half it appears that this might be the first complete whiff in the 1st rd in the Bill Belichick era.
What can be done to salvage something. It is very apparent he can't cover RBs/TE's and isn't great against the run though perhaps not a liability. My thought is to swap Nink and Donta as Nink has been good in TE coverage in the past and seems to have much better instincts than Hightower. I also think Hightower may be an effective edge rusher if given the chance, something that Nink is average to below average at.
I don't think we can pass judgement after just one game on the Hightower experiment this season. He is in a new role, trying to replace a team leader. I think you have to give him time to grow into it. He looked to me like he was thinking too much out there today, eg turning around before the smith TD run.
I think you let him learn from it, give him reps and hope the game slows down for him and that he eventually can just play fast and loose.
I think you let him learn from it, give him reps and hope the game slows down for him and that he eventually can just play fast and loose.
I agree on the 'thinking', he looked like a different player. I dont remember him as a huge playmaker, but I never remember him looking like he was behind in the thinking game, and I have to believe this is because of the changes in the defense. Assuming we dont have any other major injures, fingers crossed, I think we are going to need a few weeks to judge what this defense really is going to be and what roles guys can really play. I dont think we should make any major changes until after the bye.
ProFootballFocus rates Hightower as the worst 4-3 OLB in the NFL in pass coverage at -6.6. They also have him as 3rd-best in run D (+4.2). Overall -3.9, which is 24th of 29 4-3 OLB playing 25% of their teams' snaps.
I think part of the solution has to be the other LB they just used a high pick on. If none of the trio of Hightower, Spikes, and Collins can cover for shit, then it's going to be a long, long year. Mayo was doing it poorly before he went down - to recognize a drop-off from that is pretty bad news.
Super Nomario said:
Those stats pass the eyeball test.
The fundamental problem is that Hightower is really a bigger ILB best suited and most comfortable at slugging it out in a phonebooth and staying within the tackle box. He was protected a lot at Alabama playing the 3-4 ILB next to another guy who had more coverage responsibilities and dropping down to rush end in the sub packages. He's a replacement for Brandon Spikes, not an OLB suited for playing in lots of space.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I think that's right, and it's why he was a slightly out of the box draft pick: with Mayo and Spikes already on the team and with the Jones selection you were counting on Hightower being a SLB in a base 4-3 and pairing with Mayo (a decent enough coverage backer for his size but not a Bobby Wagner type) in sub packages for the foreseeable packages. You were committing yourself to being big, powerful, and slow. Maybe it works better late in the year and in the playoffs but it can be tough in the pass heavy modern NFL>
Stitch01 said:
On the field it seems like a wash as you're picking up something in the passing game but losing the physicality and the nastiness. Off the field? Hightower isn't insane so that's a plus.
I have't seen the player j44thor mentioned since September. 2012. He hurt a hamstring and didn't look the same after that. I always thought it was the injury lingering last season, but now I'm starting to think he's adding too much weight. He's getting worse not better. Right now he looks like he ate the guy he was at Alabama.
I've always felt he was out of position as a 4-3 OLB, but early last year he was skilled and athletic enough to overcome it. Now he looks and plays like he's about half as athletic as he used to be, and it's a disaster.
I don't think he's a bust at all, he's just broken and needs to be fixed.
I've always felt he was out of position as a 4-3 OLB, but early last year he was skilled and athletic enough to overcome it. Now he looks and plays like he's about half as athletic as he used to be, and it's a disaster.
I don't think he's a bust at all, he's just broken and needs to be fixed.
Just one play, but WTF was he doing on the Geno scramble TD? He turned around to look behind him mid-play and let Geno run right by him for the TD.
My guess is he was trying to figure out if he should rush Geno, and he was looking back to check if he was going to open up a passing lane if he did that. I believe there was also someone else close to Geno too who might have been able to rush him. Its kind of odd because the way he dropped back it looked like he had some type of zone responsibility, so as the play went on you would think he would have had a handle on what the receivers were doing behind him.
phragle said:
I think this is the problem. At 270 lbs I don't know how they expect him to cover anyone except slow TE's. Maybe they were planning on using him in more of a 3-4 OLB role and losing Wilfork for the season threw a wrench in everything, because usually front seven players his size are rushing the passer on pretty much every play.
Watching the play again I don't think Hightower deserves all the blame, though he does look painfully slow recovering to try to beat Geno to the edge. For starters, Nink has come out and taken some responsibility, saying he tried to beat his man to the outside, leaving Geno the lane to step up. We also wouldn't have cared what Hightower was doing if Cole doesn't completely whiff on his tackle attempt. I think Cole is mostly to blame actually. Amateur eyes here, but it looks like Hightower has zone duties and turns to make sure the receiver who just ran past him didn't settle on the goal line. It looks like Cole is responsible for the short/flat on that side, which is why Hightower doesn't immediately run to cover the edge when Geno takes off.
His complete lack of acceleration is what bothers me, it looks like a makeable play and he ends up having no chance. That is a lot more concerning to me than his decision making in his first game with an expanded role.
http://www.newyorkjets.com/photos-and-videos/videos/Geno-Smith-8-yard-TD-Run/284b6873-b547-4809-bddd-3a0f613d044a
His complete lack of acceleration is what bothers me, it looks like a makeable play and he ends up having no chance. That is a lot more concerning to me than his decision making in his first game with an expanded role.
http://www.newyorkjets.com/photos-and-videos/videos/Geno-Smith-8-yard-TD-Run/284b6873-b547-4809-bddd-3a0f613d044a
Don't know, which is why I pose the question. His size would lead me to believe that he could tangle with a TE and maybe a OT. If he has the speed to play LB, even if his coverage ability is limited I would guess that he is a bit faster than the average DL. So do those skills translate from large LB to pass rush DE, I don't know, but I'm curious. So I ask the people here who know more about football than I ever will.Super Nomario said:
One thing I would like to see is the play calling duty taken away from him. McCourty would make a lot more sense since he has been in this defense longer and is well versed in his role. The game seems to still move too fast for Hightower and taking a little off his plate can only help.
The problem with McCourty is the front 7 adjustments at the line which he cant effectively do when lining up at safety. Relaying the defense that is called is pretty easy, but getting everyone lined up correctly based on the offensive formation and motion is the complex and most important piece
Gary Guyton (http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/goingdeep/2013/08/brandon_spikes_donta_hightower.html)j44thor said:
I think the best position for it is a middle linebacker.
doc said:
Sure but then you'd have to take Nink or Jones off the field. I think he just needs to get back in shape.
Super Nomario said:
Strength, familiarity, lack of coverage responsibilities.
He's strong for a LB, but is he strong for a DE? He played a little DE in college, but hasn't played much in the pros (I don't know how much he's practiced there). And of course, being bad at coverage doesn't make him good at pass rushing; it just makes him bad at coverage. But it sounds like we're on the same page here anyway: Hightower at DE doesn't make much sense as a regular thing.phragle said:
Doug Kyed thinks Hightower was pretty good against the Jets.
Check out his timeline: https://twitter.com/DougKyedNESN
Check out his timeline: https://twitter.com/DougKyedNESN
Hightower is not wearing the green dot today. At least he hasn't yet. Gregory with the green dot through Q1.