Donovan Mitchell traded to Cleveland

mauf

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Seems light, given that a Mitchell/Garland/Mobley core is going to win a lot of regular season games going forward. Wonder what else is in there.

Edit: Sexton and Markkanen...this still seems quite ok for Cleveland.
In addition to Garland and Mobley, Jarrett Allen had a breakout season and is one of the league’s more underrated players. Adding Mitchell positions the Cavs nicely for the future. They probably need one of their young guys to make The Leap to become true contenders — Mitchell is more of a second banana on an elite team. But that’s where the Celtics were prior to this past season; it’s not a bad place to be, especially for a team that was blowing it up and starting over 3-4 years ago.

Edit: I missed that Allen was an All-Star this season, so maybe not so underrated.
 
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jarules1185

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I'm not sure what the NYK offer would look like to beat what Cleveland gave up, but given where the Knicks are as a team right now (not great and nowhere near GFIN), I'm good with not going there.
Seems to have been something like Barrett (not sure whether that was currently possible with the extension, may have been translatable to a sign-and-trade like with Sexton), Quickley, Toppin, 3 unprotected 1sts and 2 swaps.

Ainge definitely takes that offer as NYK picks are more exciting given the Knicks' current state. Maybe the Knicks could have lessened the offer slightly, but probably not by much.
 

benhogan

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I wonder what happens if their '26 1st conveys to the Thunder so they don't have anything to swap. I guess they just lose their swapportunities.
Danny/Presti will shrewdly rinse every bit of value from the swaps

A Westbrook for Conley/Bogey + 2 Laker firsts makes Utah a player in Free Agency next year.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Koby Altman is pretty crafty at rebuilding the Cavs roster. Charles Barkley may have to visit Cleveland again.
 

snowmanny

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A 3X All-Star, local guy, that actually wants to play in NY and the Knicks can't get it done. My Knick friends are livid.
Well you can mollify them by pointing out that it’s not as bad as when they passed on other local guys like Dr.J. Or Kareem.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Cleveland should be fun. Mitchell, Garland, and Mobley is a great core.
Don’t forget Jarrett Allen who is crucial in allowing Mobley to use his agility and grow his perimeter game. This team is loaded and those picks project to be deep in the 20’s so no harm/no foul there either.
 

benhogan

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according to Woj Grimes over Quickley held up the deal from the Knicks' end

New York had the assets Utah preferred and the sides seemed to be inching closer to a trade Sunday night and into Monday, but the Knicks balked on including Quentin Grimes in a trade with RJ Barrett to acquire Mitchell, sources said.

When guard Immanuel Quickley was proposed as a replacement for Grimes in the trade, Utah wanted three unprotected first-round draft picks as part of the package -- but New York would only do a third first-round pick that included top-five protections, sources said. Those packages would've included two second-round picks, two pick swaps and two expiring contracts from a third team, sources said. New York would've moved out Evan Fournier and first-round pick to a third team to spare Utah taking on Fournier's remaining $37 million, sources said.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34502825/sources-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-3-first-round-picks-two-swaps-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hmm. Good trade for the Jazz, ok trade for the Cavs.

Future Cavs picks could be good & Sexton is basically a poor man's Mitchell anyway.

Interesting all-in move for the Cavs but they are still lacking actual wings & they foreclosured some of their chances to acquire them.
Okoro is 22 and I really like how he’s growing into that role on this team. Every star is 23 or under…..these Cavs are far from a finished product over the next several years.
 

JM3

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Okoro is 22 and I really like how he’s growing into that role on this team. Every star is 23 or under…..these Cavs are far from a finished product over the next several years.
Not sure what to make of this 23 & under bit...

Mobley 21
Garland 22
Allen 24
DMitch 26 (next week)

But yeah, it's a good young core. I'm not really sold on Okoro but maybe I'm selling him short. I think if they can move LeVert for a piece that fits better, they're in much better shape, though.
 

JakeRae

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Okoro is 22 and I really like how he’s growing into that role on this team. Every star is 23 or under…..these Cavs are far from a finished product over the next several years.
Agreed. I really like this deal for the Cavs since I think they are well positioned to not regret the picks they are giving up and they now have a cote where, if Mobley can ascend as a star, they are a contender. Sexton for Mitchell is a massive upgrade for them.

I suspect there will be people questioning this deal when the Cavs don’t break into the elite tier in the East this year, but their timeline is really well positioned to be ascendant as the Heat and Nets age out (if that hasn’t already happened to the Nets) and the Sixers have to retool in a few years once Harden is no longer a viable top player. The Bucks and Celtics are also well positioned for that future, but this is about as good a trade for the Cavs as I could imagine and their roster makes a lot more sense today than it did yesterday.

It’s also a fine deal for the Jazz and the Knicks obviously decided to move on, but I rate it a lot lower for Utah because betting against the Knicks seems like it would’ve been a much better play than doing so against the Cavs.
 

BigMike

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Danny/Presti will shrewdly rinse every bit of value from the swaps

A Westbrook for Conley/Bogey + 2 Laker firsts makes Utah a player in Free Agency next year.
It's the Lakers so anything is possible, but wow that feels like a horrible deal for the Lakers. Conley has one more year left, and looks to be basically toast as a player. Maybe as a 20 min a night player he could contribute. Bogey could probably help them, but is not young. I think the potential in the Indiana rumors is FAR better than this combination, if they are going to give up this.


Anyway to todays trade. I love if for the Cavs. I wasn't a big fan of the Obaji deal with Okoro in place, but flipping him off for significant value is a big win

That Utah roster is rough. Vic should ask Gobert on how to make the best of a France to Utah lifestyle change.

View: https://youtu.be/aKm6jza27zw
Yes Utah is definitely all in in the race to get a 14% chance at Vic. Regardless, supposed to be a great draft
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah Cleveland is set up pretty well though I feel higher on Spida than most here. I know he is past the mythical age of 25 or whatever that renders it impossible but I will not be surprised if he improves further, and on D in particular. Not saying he will be clamps or anything but I think he has room to grow without now that Gobert isn't around to clean up after him.
 

BigSoxFan

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I really like this trade for Cleveland. What were the odds they were ever going to get their hands on a player as good as Mitchell in the next few years? Basically zero given that they're too good to suck. So, instead, they're playing a hand and getting a talented scorer's prime years. Not sure yet how he and Garland will co-exist but, on paper, there is a ton to like here. You've got 2 scorers in the backcourt who can really fill it up. You have 2 defense-first role players in Okoro/Allen to do the dirty work. And then you have the guy who you can dream on in Mobley who's barely 21 and has the potential to be an All-NBA type talent. This team will be on my League Pass list for sure.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah, love this for the Cavs. That’s a genuinely scary team: traded away a legend in his own mind (Sexton) and an over-rated big who is far worse than Allen and Mobley along with what should be late FRPs. Not sure I see the problem there. On the flip they get a difference maker who will elevate them in the playoffs.
I did today's Poeltl online game today, and the answer was a Cleveland big (too lazy to spoiler). After I finished, I looked over the roster and saw how many fucking NBA level actual bigs they have. It's weird.
 

PedroKsBambino

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according to Woj Grimes over Quickley held up the deal from the Knicks' end

New York had the assets Utah preferred and the sides seemed to be inching closer to a trade Sunday night and into Monday, but the Knicks balked on including Quentin Grimes in a trade with RJ Barrett to acquire Mitchell, sources said.

When guard Immanuel Quickley was proposed as a replacement for Grimes in the trade, Utah wanted three unprotected first-round draft picks as part of the package -- but New York would only do a third first-round pick that included top-five protections, sources said. Those packages would've included two second-round picks, two pick swaps and two expiring contracts from a third team, sources said. New York would've moved out Evan Fournier and first-round pick to a third team to spare Utah taking on Fournier's remaining $37 million, sources said.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34502825/sources-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-3-first-round-picks-two-swaps-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell
never know which reports to credit, but this sounds like a misread by the Knicks…Grimes is very unlikely to matter big picture. Wonder if they didn’t see Cleveland coming and are now stunned?
 

BigMike

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never know which reports to credit, but this sounds like a misread by the Knicks…Grimes is very unlikely to matter big picture. Wonder if they didn’t see Cleveland coming and are now stunned?
I assume the Knicks are stunned. I can't imagine they saw Cleveland coming , and I think it is likely they should have made the deal.

Although to tell the truth, I hated the Knicks deal for the Knicks. Maybe it would have been enough to get them in the play in and into the 7 or 8 spot in the playoffs, but I don't think the roster with Brunson, Mitchell, Randel is actually good and has no real chance to become a contender.
 

EvilEmpire

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Although to tell the truth, I hated the Knicks deal for the Knicks. Maybe it would have been enough to get them in the play in and into the 7 or 8 spot in the playoffs, but I don't think the roster with Brunson, Mitchell, Randel is actually good and has no real chance to become a contender.
I said it earlier, but this is where I'm at. Too many holes and getting Mitchell would have greatly limited their ability to improve further. To put it another way, I think NY is trying to get to where Cleveland was at before the trade. Enough young talent to be interesting, and if you squint a little, maybe close enough with one big piece to be a minor contender. It makes sense for Cleveland to try and level up with Mitchell right now. If things break right, they could be a solid contender in two years or so.

That isn't the Knicks. They need to level up just to be yesterday's Cleveland. :(
 

Devizier

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It’s a great gamble for the Cavaliers — Mitchell may not be a tier 1A star, but he’s a top 25 guy and lot better than Sexton. The opportunity cost of passing on him when there are no other players of his caliber coming to the market any time soon is massive. And the Cavaliers are looking at mid-low draft picks in most scenarios with what they’ve traded.
 

Mooch

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I think this is a MASSIVE overpay by the Cavs. I’m not a Mitchell fan at all. He’s a volume scorer who isn’t terribly efficient nor a great shooter, a 1/2 guard with a shockingly poor assist to turnover ratio and a downright bad defensive player. For two young, talented players and 5 years of picks/swaps? Yuck.

Imagine a team mortgaging their future for Mitch Richmond. Because that’s what Cleveland just did.
 

JM3

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Is the difference between these, when Sexton is 2 years & 4 months younger (& only 11 of those Sexton games were this past year), significant enough to warrant 3 1sts, 2 swaps, Lauri, an awful #14 overall pick & $14.6m per year?

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=sextoco01&player_id1=mitchdo01&sum=0&request=1

I mean...maybe? The winshare difference is crazy. But I think DMitch is kinda overrated & Sexton went from overrated af to somewhat underrated.

Will definitely be interesting, though, & I guess why not. Far more interesting than if the Knicks did it.
 

BigMike

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I think this is a MASSIVE overpay by the Cavs. I’m not a Mitchell fan at all. He’s a volume scorer who isn’t terribly efficient nor a great shooter, a 1/2 guard with a shockingly poor assist to turnover ratio and a downright bad defensive player. For two young, talented players and 5 years of picks/swaps? Yuck.

Imagine a team mortgaging their future for Mitch Richmond. Because that’s what Cleveland just did.
Did they mortgage their future?

Yes the picks given up will potentially make it harder for them to make additional moves, but this is a team that is basically in win now mode, with 2 elite bigs, a very good PG, and now adding an elite SG. And most of the talent is young.

Yes this could be a problem in 2027 or 2029. maybe, but it is far more likely they don't give up a pick in the top 20 then that they give up a lottery pick in this deal. Injuries happen like all deals things could blow up in their face. I might have preferred it if they could have gotten and athletic top 25 player who was 6'6" and signed for 3 more year, but it was highly unlikely that player was available or going to become available at any point in the near future for this package

And Mitch Richmond? We are talking an NBA hall of fame player. If they are trading for an NBA hall of fame player here, who has 5 more elite seasons before dropping down to a good player, then yeah that is a hell of a deal for a a couple mediocre players, an overaged rookie, and 3 future late first round picks.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think this is a MASSIVE overpay by the Cavs. I’m not a Mitchell fan at all. He’s a volume scorer who isn’t terribly efficient nor a great shooter, a 1/2 guard with a shockingly poor assist to turnover ratio and a downright bad defensive player. For two young, talented players and 5 years of picks/swaps? Yuck.

Imagine a team mortgaging their future for Mitch Richmond. Because that’s what Cleveland just did.

What a weird take. Mitch Richmond will probably be worth far more than the 5 picks and 2 young players they traded. On the right team, adding Mitch would be great.

Not that it means anything, but Jordan said Mitch Richmond was the next best guard. Always made Sprewell made.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't think that the Richmond comparison is that far off. This is the basketball hall of fame we're talking about here. If Mitchell does for like 7 more years what he has done in the first 5, he's going to the HOF too.

Similar TS%, similar O and R ratings, steals and blocks. Mitchell with a meaningful advantage in assist%.
 

Mooch

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I’m not saying Mitch Richmond was a bad player by any stretch. Neither is Mitchell. But neither guy is/was a player that you would build a championship team around. I think it’s a massive overpay for a pretty good player with some flaws. That’s the comparison.
 

BigMike

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I’m not saying Mitch Richmond was a bad player by any stretch. Neither is Mitchell. But neither guy is/was a player that you would build a championship team around. I think it’s a massive overpay for a pretty good player with some flaws. That’s the comparison.
the best part here is he is not the player they are building the team around. Ultimately Mobley is that guy there.

They are bringing him in to be a key component, and maybe he will be the lead scorer, but he is not the guy they are relying on carrying them and being the #1 guy. Honestly to me the biggest question is will Mitchell's ego adapt to his role here
 

JM3

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25 y/o Mitch Richmond was traded straight up for the 3rd overall pick (Billy Owens, who was holding out). By those standards, this was a massive overpay.
 

Cesar Crespo

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25 y/o Mitch Richmond was traded straight up for the 3rd overall pick (Billy Owens, who was holding out). By those standards, this was a massive overpay.
The NBA was different back then. Didn't Ainge start the multi pick/swap trend with KG/PP?

Ray Allen went for the 5th pick overall. KG went for Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and 2 picks in 2009. Their own pick, and Minnesota's pick... which was obviously valuable. It ended up being 6th, and the Wolves took Flynn.


Carmelo Anthony to the Knicks only involved 1 1st rounder.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’m not saying Mitch Richmond was a bad player by any stretch. Neither is Mitchell. But neither guy is/was a player that you would build a championship team around. I think it’s a massive overpay for a pretty good player with some flaws. That’s the comparison.
They aren’t building around Mitchell. This is Garland and (soon to be) Mobley’s team and a 50-win team before Mitchell even arrived. He’s not a perfect player but certainly as a guy on a HOF trajectory in his prime is an enormous upgrade over Sexton. Lauri is replaceable and those picks will likely be very low 1sts that you could always buy back into a similar slot if they really wanted to do so.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The NBA was different back then. Didn't Ainge start the multi pick/swap trend with KG/PP?

Ray Allen went for the 5th pick overall. KG went for Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and 2 picks in 2009. Their own pick, and Minnesota's pick... which was obviously valuable. It ended up being 6th, and the Wolves took Flynn.


Carmelo Anthony to the Knicks only involved 1 1st rounder.
Al Attles? Pretty sure he was the Warriors GM when he traded Robert Parish to the Celtics for the 1st and 13th pick that year. The one that comes to mind as most comparable is when Chris Webber was traded for Hardaway and 3 1st rounders.
 

benhogan

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They aren’t building around Mitchell. This is Garland and (soon to be) Mobley’s team and a 50-win team before Mitchell even arrived. He’s not a perfect player but certainly as a guy on a HOF trajectory in his prime is an enormous upgrade over Sexton. Lauri is replaceable and those picks will likely be very low 1sts that you could always buy back into a similar slot if they really wanted to do so.
Everyone is forgetting about Ricky Rubio, they were noticeably better with him on the floor last season.

Love, Rubio, LeVert, Osman, Wade is a solid bench rotation

EC continues to get better.

Boston, Milwaukee, Miami, Brooklyn, Phila, Toronto, Cleveland, Chicago, and Atlanta are going to be brutal
 

benhogan

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The NBA was different back then. Didn't Ainge start the multi pick/swap trend with KG/PP?

Ray Allen went for the 5th pick overall. KG went for Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and 2 picks in 2009. Their own pick, and Minnesota's pick... which was obviously valuable. It ended up being 6th, and the Wolves took Flynn.


Carmelo Anthony to the Knicks only involved 1 1st rounder.
in 1979 that nitwit John Y Brown sent 3 Firsts to the Knicks for Bob McAdoo

Red corrected that blunder by later netting 2 Firsts for McAdoo (which led to the Parish/McHale heist)
 

Cesar Crespo

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Those were all the same draft though, weren't they? Stepien traded future picks but never for the same player, I don't think?
 

HomeRunBaker

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EC continues to get better.

Boston, Milwaukee, Miami, Brooklyn, Phila, Toronto, Cleveland, Chicago, and Atlanta are going to be brutal
The shift of power back to the East didn’t seem like it would ever occur……but here we are.
 

Jimbodandy

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Al Attles? Pretty sure he was the Warriors GM when he traded Robert Parish to the Celtics for the 1st and 13th pick that year. The one that comes to mind as most comparable is when Chris Webber was traded for Hardaway and 3 1st rounders.
The third pick came back with Parish, don't forget.
 

HomeRunBaker

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two WC All-Stars switched over to the EC this summer: Murray, Mitchell
Durant and DeRozen before them too….the West lost prime Harden also. Add to them the growth of guys like Giannis, Embiid, Tatum, Garland, LaMelo etc with Cade and Mobley right behind them.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Galrand and Mitchell are 6'1", though Mitchell has a freakish wingspan. Is that going to work defensively as a backcourt?
 

Mooch

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They aren’t building around Mitchell. This is Garland and (soon to be) Mobley’s team and a 50-win team before Mitchell even arrived. He’s not a perfect player but certainly as a guy on a HOF trajectory in his prime is an enormous upgrade over Sexton. Lauri is replaceable and those picks will likely be very low 1sts that you could always buy back into a similar slot if they really wanted to do so.
The picks start in 2025, right around the time that Mitchell reaches free agency. If this experiment doesn’t work (and there’s a chance it won’t), this could nuke the Cavs for a decade.

EDIT: And this was a 44 win team that didn’t make the playoffs. I think the Cavs are far short of the top 4 teams in the East even after this trade.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think this is a MASSIVE overpay by the Cavs. I’m not a Mitchell fan at all. He’s a volume scorer who isn’t terribly efficient nor a great shooter, a 1/2 guard with a shockingly poor assist to turnover ratio and a downright bad defensive player. For two young, talented players and 5 years of picks/swaps? Yuck.
It's certainly a gamble and it will be interesting to see if there are enough basketballs for this team but IMO CLE will rise and fall with how far Mobley goes. I presume that Mobley will be an all-NBA defense candidate and hopefully Mitchell and Garland don't cause him to stagnate on offense.

edit: as many have said upthread, CLE also probably doesn't have another likely avenue as getting a player as good as Mitchell so why not? Plus, he's certainly flippable if it doesn't work out.


Imagine a team mortgaging their future for Mitch Richmond. Because that’s what Cleveland just did.
You mean CLE has turned into the Bullets? :cool:
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Good Ringer article on how small market teams are going all-in on blockbuster trades: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/9/1/23333842/small-market-teams-are-paying-big-prices-to-go-all-in

The key link that connects the Lakers’, Clippers’, and Nets’ deals to the Cavaliers’, Timberwolves’, and Hawks’ more recent moves is another trade by a small-market franchise. In 2020, the Bucks sent three first-round picks (two of their own and one from the Pacers) plus two swaps to New Orleans in exchange for Jrue Holiday.
Unlike the Lakers, Clippers, and Nets, the Bucks had developed their core internally: Giannis Antetokounmpo, in the draft, and Khris Middleton, via an early-career trade. But just as the Lakers—who notably missed the playoffs in LeBron’s first injury-plagued season in L.A.—needed Davis to take the next step toward title contention, the Bucks needed another star, too, and Holiday gave them the secondary creator and ace defender they sought. In the pivotal play of the next summer’s NBA Finals, with the series tied 2-2 and the Bucks leading by a single point, Holiday stripped Devin Booker and lobbed a triumphant alley-oop to Giannis on the other end. Milwaukee won the title, and the prospect of losing future draft equity was irrevocably, emphatically worth it.

That article also links to this 2019 Ringer article, which looked at every first-round draft pick traded at least 3.5 years in advance of the pick since 1983. The article found that the most successful of such pick turned into Nurkic, with a career PER of 18.7, and the only All-Star that was produced by such pick was Hayward (who interestly enough at that time had a career PER of 17.5.

Again, that article was published in 2019 and would look much different if updated today.
 

JM3

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Trying to think over why I don't like this more for the Cavs. Some of it is probably just as simple as I've always been an irrational Mobley stan & I don't really see how DMitch makes him better or helps him reach his ceiling.

Is the offense better running through Mitchell than it is through Garland or Mobley? Is Mitchell that off the ball piece if it is running through those 2? Can he overcome years of disastrous defense despite playing for a really good team? Should we be concerned that the Jazz were better with him off the court each of the past 3 years?
 

Mooch

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That’s kind of a dumb analysis. Does the fact that many of those were terrible picks reduce the opportunity value of the picks themselves? Is it somehow predictive?
 

brendan f

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think the Cavs are far short of the top 4 teams in the East even after this trade.
I think this is right. I suppose you can be high on the trade and still recognize this isn't close to an elite team, but I think it's important to realize it's a risk and it might not work. Is a defensive turnstile the type of guy you want next to Garland? I don't think so. The Cavs desperately needed wings and anybody with a modicum of perimeter defensive ability. This trade doesn't help those areas. It hurts.
I wouldn't be so quick to point out these are going to be late first round picks. The East is pretty good. Which teams do people feel the Cavs have definitely leapfrogged with this trade? If there are any, it isn't many.
 

the moops

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The shift of power back to the East didn’t seem like it would ever occur……but here we are.
I am not so sure of this. I think you have similar top tiers in each conference. BOS/MIL and GSW/LAC. Then a 2nd tier in each that includes PHI/MIA/BRK and PHO/DEN/DAL and then some really interesting teams below them in CLE/TOR/ATL/CHI and MEM/NO/MIN

Sure, we can mix up those tiers a bit, but seems to me that the top end teams are equally distributed and each conference runs 8 or 9 deep.